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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Did you hear the latest? » » David Copperfield Trial Begins (3 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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MJE
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After all these years,I STILL have only
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Yup. Anybody can sue anyone for anything. I can sue you because I don't like the color of your shirt. I probably won't win the case, but you're still going to get stuck with a lawyer's bill and a bunch of lost time. I'm sure with the ceramic bowl incident, it just happened to quickly to think everything through and see what could go wrong. To do that, you'd have to hold up the show for at least a couple of minutes while considering all of the possibilities. The good news is, it won't happen again. To anyone who read your post, probably!

And I just had a thought. I bet if you just dump the candy on the kids instead of into a bowl, it would be the hit of the show. It would be chaos, of course, with kids scrambling to grab the goodies, but what a climax for a kidshow! If your production item holds a lot of small candies, you could pack up in peace while the kids are preoccupied with the chase.
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On May 12, 2018, davidpaul$ wrote:
Quote:
On May 11, 2018, Mike Gainor wrote:
Quote:
On May 11, 2018, Wizard of Oz wrote:
Maybe this has been asked already, but can a disclaimer be put on the back of one's ticket that frees the performer and venue from any responsibility should an accident occur? I've seen similar verbiage on the back of sports tickets like baseball, where foul balls can do some serious damage.



That is sort of like (mumbling soflty) "You waive your right to sue by saying what..?" and wait for them to say what?


Smile
Disclaimers mean nothing in a court of law. People can still sue regardless.
That's another reason I incorporated. To save my personal assets just in case that "one" person
files for whatever reason. Better to be safe than up the creek without a paddle.


You have not taken your theory far enough. Yes people can sue for anything but if you think simple incorporation will save your assets from a claim you have a very false sense of security.

And a waiver is absolutely not meaningless. While people can sue for anything this is true, most lawyers won't take a guaranteed loser. Abd even if you can be sued, once in court it sure makes winning a heck of a lot easier when you have this stuff in place. It may not stop action, but it will keep costs way down. To say they mean nothing in a court of law is not entirely true.

While disclaimers do not always hold up they certainly help MLB in the case of foul balls.

But if you are neglect you are not protected. Even if you are incorporated. In the United States that is.

And as for a group of kids rushing to the ground in a frenzy to pick up candy? Well what could possibly go wrong there? I might avoid such a scenario if it were me.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
davidpaul$
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The corporation once properly formed and run is now considered a seperate entity and be kept from
corporate litigation. If the company is involved in a lawsuit personal homes and assets would not be at risk.
Another benefit is tax savings.

I tried just pouring candy on the floor or a table. BAD MOVE. Head butting, aggresive kids hoarding, some kids
crying because they didn't get anything. Best to pour candy into a safe container later to be distributed SAFELY.
If you can't help worrying, remember worrying can't help you!
Dannydoyle
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Do you have every minutes of every meeting in place and in writing David? Do you have not one dollar that is crossed over? To pierce that veil is SO easy that it is not even funny.

No I'm sorry but I have watched guys who have tried to play that game in Nevada, where it is the TOUGHEST to get past and it got past. It does not take that much once you are in court. It really doesn't.

Do what you like, and be safe above all! Safe keeps you out of litigation. But you can and if you are will be sued personally if the opposing side figures it is worth it. Your personal assets may be at risk. Maybe this will help some David to clear things up a bit.

http://info.legalzoom.com/can-sued-perso......022.html

"Personal Liability
While the limited liability shield can insulate you from personal liability for things your employees or fellow shareholders might do, it doesn't protect you from getting sued for something you did yourself. People can almost always be held personally liable for their own acts. If you're driving a company car on the job, and you cause an accident through your own negligence, you can be sued because you caused the wreck, and the company can be sued because you were on company business at the time of the wreck. Other shareholders, however, enjoy protection from suit because you were working for the corporation, not them."

Also consider this.

"Structure and Reporting Requirements
You can also get personally sued if you didn't set up your corporation the right way. You must take care to scrupulously obey the formalities of your state's corporation laws if you want the protection of the limited liability shield. You can limit this risk by hiring a lawyer or purchasing state-specific incorporation forms from a reputable source, but it will still be your responsibility to comply with any state reporting requirements. If you don't, a plaintiff's lawyer will attempt to pierce the limited liability shield and reach your personal assets by claiming your corporation doesn't actually exist.

Commingling Assets
Another reason you can be personally sued, even though you've incorporated your business, is if you disregard the corporate form and commingle your personal and business assets. Using corporate funds or assets for your own personal benefit or keeping your personal money and business money in the same account, can help a plaintiff's lawyer convince a court that your corporation is a sham. It can also hurt you to engage in business activities that aren't covered by your corporate charter."

I don't want to get into a thing here, but just incorporating does not give you nearly the protection you might think it does.

And don't misunderstand my position. I am in no way saying you should not incorporate. Not by a long shot. I am saying it is not the protection you seem to think it is. The pouring candy on the floor and having a child injured as a result would seem to be one of those things that is fairly foreseeable. If a kid was injured during this and the parents chose to sue, it was your personal actions that caused the injury and indeed your personal assets would be at risk.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
davidpaul$
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Wow Danny.....I'll have to let my corporate attoney and corporate accountant look at this, as
well as my insurance company.

Legal Zoom is a joke. If that's your frame of reference well I'll get you in touch with my attorney
and banking manager. They could tell you some stories about Legal Zoom.

Thanks for taking the time and enery to post and for your concern.. Take care....
If you can't help worrying, remember worrying can't help you!
Dannydoyle
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I'm sure the lawyers here will post.

https://www.businessknowhow.com/legal/assets.htm

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.entrepr......l/233338

But no doubt your high priced people know better. I'm sure I'm just absolutely wrong.

You can be completely neglegant and not have one bit of personal responsibility. On the other hand the term piercing the corporate veil must exist for a reason. Legal Zoom not withstanding.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
davidpaul$
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OK thanks again.
If you can't help worrying, remember worrying can't help you!
Mark Boody Illusionist
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He wins or does he?

Will this hurt David Copperfield in the long run?

I'm sure that the lawyers will appeal this decision.
WitchDocChris
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I doubt this will have a long term impact. The news of the trial isn't even making big ripples in the magic world - let alone outside our little community.
Christopher
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Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4
daffydoug
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He won.
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
Rook
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"Negligent, but not financially responsible." Somehow, that seems a bit counter-intuitive to me. Maybe it's some fairly subtle legal distinction, because it sounds like: "It's you're fault, but you don't have to compensate for it." If I'm reading it right, I wonder why not?
Those who don't believe in magic will never find it.

-Roald Dahl
daffydoug
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I'm just glad it turned out good for him. Well, good that is, except for being forced to reveal the modus operandi of the illusion.
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
Slim King
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I'm Glad he won the case!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
magicnorm
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We live in a lawsuit lottery environment, thank God for common sense and a jury that can see thru the weeds. Cant wait to go see his show again, never miss it when attending Magic Live.

NM
Munseys_Magic
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Quote:
On May 30, 2018, Rook wrote:
"Negligent, but not financially responsible." Somehow, that seems a bit counter-intuitive to me. Maybe it's some fairly subtle legal distinction, because it sounds like: "It's you're fault, but you don't have to compensate for it." If I'm reading it right, I wonder why not?


This could mean that Copperfield was negligent, but the prosecutor failed to prove that there were any out-of-pocket expenses that were absolutely caused by this incident. I know the guy is suing for expenses, but there would have to be proof that the accident was the cause of those expenses.
Jim Munsey
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Rook
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I went to the Magic Cafe and all I got were these lousy
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Quote:
On May 31, 2018, Munseys_Magic wrote:
Quote:
On May 30, 2018, Rook wrote:
"Negligent, but not financially responsible." Somehow, that seems a bit counter-intuitive to me. Maybe it's some fairly subtle legal distinction, because it sounds like: "It's you're fault, but you don't have to compensate for it." If I'm reading it right, I wonder why not?


This could mean that Copperfield was negligent, but the prosecutor failed to prove that there were any out-of-pocket expenses that were absolutely caused by this incident. I know the guy is suing for expenses, but there would have to be proof that the accident was the cause of those expenses.


Sounds like a logical assessment. Works for me!
Those who don't believe in magic will never find it.

-Roald Dahl
Steven Conner
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This was a huge win for David and magicians. If you're an entertainer of a large caliber, you are definitely a target. There are ways to protect one's total assets. I've been doing this for years for very wealthy people to make sure these very things don't happen. Whether a lawsuit, accident, divorce, etc. Proud of David's team.
"The New York Papers," Mark Twain once said,"have long known that no large question is ever really settled until I have been consulted; it is the way they feel about it, and they show it by always sending to me when they get uneasy. "
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