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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
Hi everybody,
I posted a question about the Houdini-Erdnase change a year or so ago, but, with more experience, I think I can ask a more pointed question. I have fairly large hands, and *maybe* that's actually a disadvantage for this move. I've watched quite a few videos and read many descriptions of the move, and they say to push the top card forward, thus exposing the second-from-top card, and then pull the latter inward with the *heel* of the hand. Well, I can do that, but in order to make the heel contact the bottom of the second card, I have to push the top card quite far forward, a little over two inches. That makes it hard for me to conceal what's going on. In particular, it's hard to hide the moment near the end when I push the original top card back flush with the deck. If I push the top card forward half an inch, then the natural contact point with the second card is near the top of my palm, not far from the base of my fingers. That has its own problems, because when I slide the second card inward, it doesn't clear the top card until my fingertips are nearly at the bottom of the deck, and then both top and bottom cards are visible, again exposing the technique. I hope that was clear! If not, I'll put up a youtube video when I have a chance. Anyway, I'd be grateful for any suggestions people can offer. Thanks, Bob |
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Maxyedid Special user Panama 843 Posts |
That's a very interesting observation, one that I never considered myself or seen it published anywhere. However, are you familiar with Mr. Roberto Giobbi's handling of the move? It's in CC obviously. He has a few touches that may help you. Erdnase had small hands, by the way.
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
Thanks, Maxyedid. I appreciate your remarks. I studied Giobbi's handling last year, but I'll look again now that I'm better at card-handling.
Bob |
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Shane Cobalt New user 91 Posts |
John Carney has the best work on this in my opinion. I believe it's written in Carneycopia.
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MARKC New user UK 72 Posts |
The actual change in question is credited to Houdini
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
Shane,
And I even own Carneycopia! I'll take a look, thanks. Mark, People often call the move the Houdini/Erdnase change. I haven't seen the evidence myself, but I think Giobbi gives credit to Houdini, as you say. |
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danny Loyal user England 269 Posts |
Hi Bob
Could you use the top of the palm, as in the bits below the fingers? |
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PaulPosition New user 59 Posts |
Unless Bob has really large hands and the fingers to match, he would have trouble keeping the card hidden when moving to the inside to slide the bottom card over the top one: Both the switched card *and* the rest-of-the-deck (which is not aligned with the top card) might show beside the fingers (they're not all the same length) or through 'windows'.
As a matter of fact, Bob wrote: "...If I push the top card forward half an inch, then the natural contact point with the second card is near the top of my palm, not far from the base of my fingers. That has its own problems, because when I slide the second card inward, it doesn't clear the top card until my fingertips are nearly at the bottom of the deck, and then both top and bottom cards are visible, again exposing the technique." |
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fonda57 Inner circle chicago 3078 Posts |
I have large hands as well, but they don't hinder me with this move. It's the dryness of my hands that does.
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
Thanks, Danny and Paul,
The problem with using the top of my palm or base of my fingers is exactly what Paul described. And Paul, your observation about fingers being of different lengths is dead on. I hadn't noticed till you wrote, but it's the little finger that's the problem: Say I contact the bottom card with the base of my fingers and pull it back till it clears the top card. At that moment, my index, middle, and ring fingers cover the orginal bottom card and the inner end of the original top card. But my little finger doesn't reach forward far enough to coverfully over the retracted card, and doesn't contact the original top card at all. So the minute gap between the two cards is exposed on the right side. Also, as Paul said, the top card, after being pushed forward half an inch, becomes exposed as I retract the bottom card. I've seen handlings where the top card remains forward, not flush with the deck, during the change. Can't remember where. Maybe that would help?? Or maybe a subtle adjustment would fix the problem. I'll keep experimenting. I haven't yet reviewed Giobbi's work or looked at Carney -- except to verify that the handling that Shane described is indeed in Carneycopia. Windows aren't a problem. I'm still open to ideas. Thanks, everybody! Bob |
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
Hi fonda57,
Dryness is a problem for me, too, but hand lotion seems to do the trick. Everyone's hands are different, but I'm curious: are you able to catch the bottom card with the heel of your hand? |
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Claudio Inner circle Europe 1927 Posts |
Bob, I think that your issue is likely to be with the positioning of your right hand. But, the following handling ( I can't remember where I read it) might help. Once you've pushed the top card by 1/2 inch with your right hand, the left 1st finger (under the cover of the right fingers) pushes the cards below the top card to bevel the deck towards the heel of your right hand. It should help you to make proper contact.
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
Interesting! Thanks as always, Claudio. I just did a preliminary test of your suggestion and it seemed good.
By the way, I'm still working on the Halo cut. Your advice and that of a couple of other people on the Café was a huge help. I'm not consistently there, yet, but I feel like I'm on my way. Bob |
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Rupert Pupkin Inner circle 1452 Posts |
Quote:
On Apr 27, 2018, Claudio wrote: That would be Tom Stone and Tomas Blomberg's Nosejob. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4JR7g5nJbs |
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
Thanks, Rupert! In my dreams I make the change look as aetherial and floaty as it looks on this video.
Bob |
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
From a thread about "nosejob":
"Re: Plots, Spells & Typos by Tom Stone by Richard Kaufman » August 7th, 2007, 8:44 am The idea of shoving the cards inward with your left first finger for the Houdini (who published it twice before Erdnase repeated it) color change comes from Jennings '67." Complete thread is at https://forums.geniimagazine.com/viewtopic.php?t=3618. |
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fonda57 Inner circle chicago 3078 Posts |
Bob G--i can, but it's difficult. I prefer to do that with the base of my fingers, which I think is the Carney way
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
Claudio,
I checked Jennings '67, p. 122. It describes his finessed erdnase change. I had read it last year and had trouble with it, but now, as I look at the bottom picture, I see that the deck is indeed beveled as you described -- a point I had missed the first time through. I imagine the deck bevels automatically when one pushes the deck (sans top card) back with the left forefinger, but to do so intentionally has to improve the handling. Anyway, I'm looking forward to practicing this. Bob |
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Claudio Inner circle Europe 1927 Posts |
Thanks Bob, for the reference. It is indeed in Jennings ’67 that I had read that handling, about 20 years ago! I am still waiting for RK to publish Mr. Jennings Takes It Easy!
I used Jennings’s finesse, then, to solve my own problems; until I stumbled on a handling that nearly does away with the pushing altogether. I have no doubt others will have discovered a similar handling. Good luck with the sleight. Thanks Rupert for posting the link to Nosejob. Terrific demo. |
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shaunluttin Special user 759 Posts |
Claudio gives a useful suggestion about pushing in with the left first finger.
Another handling that I use is, instead of pulling only inward with the heal of the right hand, I first pull to the right with the heal. This helps to loosen the top card before pulling inward. Here is a link to a video of that: Here is a 29-minute live performance of mine: https://youtu.be/lq2Rj1uf05M I used to be quite sensitive to criticism; I am much less so now; so, please do criticize my technique, presentation, and posts. It helps me to grow, and I promise to take responsibility and not to be defensive. |
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