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v.kapoor New user 29 Posts |
Hello,
I saw a video of Pete Biro performing a version of B'Wave without a gaff. Although in his video the spectator inevitably chooses the choice card, making his discourse pretty straightforward. What if she chose the blacks, or chose the diamonds? Is anyone performing a version of B'Wave with no gaff? Pete's version here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbGWKc6V2vM&feature=youtu.be Thanks! |
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magicfish Inner circle 7004 Posts |
Yes.
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v.kapoor New user 29 Posts |
Cool. Any insight on equivoque for a no-gaff method?
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EndersGame Inner circle Reviewer EndersGame 2195 Posts |
The non-gaffed version is generally seen as weaker than the gaffed version, because it requires equivoque twice, and this can draw attention to and tip the method. In contrast, the gaffed version only requires one instance of equivoque, and this makes the method far less obvious.
For a similar comparison, you may also wish to study John Bannon's Twisted Sisters, which like B'Wave uses gaffs, and which he later developed without gaffs into Duplicity. Your question "What if she chose the blacks, or chose the diamonds?" is a bit puzzling. If you know the method of B'Wave, then you should know the answer to that question. I mean no disrespect, but are you entirely familiar with how the equivoque for B'Wave works and do you have official teaching materials for it? |
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v.kapoor New user 29 Posts |
Quote:
On May 15, 2018, EndersGame wrote: Thanks. Did you watch Pete's version on YouTube? That's what my questions pertain too, not Maven's version (which yes, I own). My problem with the original B'Wave, which I agree is very strong as-is, is finding a way to avoid the spectator from wanting to examine the cards. |
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mlippo Inner circle Trieste (Italy) 1227 Posts |
Quote:
On May 15, 2018, v.kapoor wrote: I'm no professional, but B'Wave is always on me and I've done it dozens and dozens and dozens of times! I can assure you that no one ever asked me to see the cards. Mark |
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EndersGame Inner circle Reviewer EndersGame 2195 Posts |
Quote:
On May 15, 2018, v.kapoor wrote: Yes, I had watched Pete Biro's version in that youtube clip when I first read your post, thanks for sharing that clip. I think it's obvious what handling he'd use if different choices were made. He'd basically use the same equivoque that the usual B'Wave uses, but then adapted for the final phase. He's just asking the spectator to give him a card, so then he can either have the spectator imagine that card turned over, or the one remaining in their hand turned over, whichever is required. Good equivoque is about having your spectator make a selection, and only afterwards define the terms and explain what he was selecting and doing. Check youtube for some clips of John Bannon's Duplicity, and that will also give some ideas of what patter to use for the other pathways. I've performed B'Wave countless times, but have never had spectators ask to see the cards (not that I can remember, at most it would have happened a couple of times). It has a lot to do with how you perform and end it. Just don't leave the cards sitting on the table begging to be examined after you're done. After the powerful ending, you can fairly soon gather them together and put them away. At that point, in the spectator's mind you've shown everything they need to see, including (apparently) both sides of every card. So they shouldn't need to see any cards. I'm convinced that going to a patter in which you need to perform the equivoque twice (due to the absence of a gaff) weakens the effect, and there's actually more chance that your method will be uncovered. Spectators will have a real sense you tricked them with the words you used, even if they can't put their finger exactly on how you did it. |
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v.kapoor New user 29 Posts |
This is all very helpful! Thank you.
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Ahlichs New user 76 Posts |
OOOof. Bad equivoque is hard t watch. You can go the equivoque route, but think about how easy or hard it will be to backtrack. Joshua Jay has a great example of *good* equivoque in his last ATT lecture, as opposed to bad equivoque ("point to one.... ok, we'll use *this* one" -- then why did I point to the one we're not using? its super transparent).
If you want to do bwave without the traditional gaff, look at using an i***x. You can do a very clean bwave-style effect that way (Daniel Madison has some work on that). I don't do bwave, but I do an invisible deck-style routine (which is pretty close) using a memdeck. It's very clean, doesn't require a gaff in the traditional sense. A spectator can take the deck from me and theres nothing to find. If your spectators are engaged, there's a fair chance that they'll want to handle the cards afterwards. I'd recommend either using a method that's examinable (memdeck, or i***x), or do a deck switch |
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v.kapoor New user 29 Posts |
Thanks for the tips!
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On May 15, 2018, Ahlichs wrote: |
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warren Inner circle uk 4138 Posts |
It's simple enough to perform without gaff cards if you use a s****h wa***t.
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fonda57 Inner circle chicago 3078 Posts |
What is the advantage of not doing the gaffed original? It is easy and very magical.
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kaubell New user 90 Posts |
Gaffs and gimmicks are too much to carry, setup, or take care.
Just take normal deck, pull out 4 queens and turn one over. The equivoque is easy and you only need 2 questions, no problems. Magic is too full of gimmicks. When you can do everything completely impromptu, no setup and you need just deck of cards, that's amazing skill. |
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warren Inner circle uk 4138 Posts |
Quote:
On May 21, 2018, fonda57 wrote: Personally I like to finish clean if possible it's that simple |
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fonda57 Inner circle chicago 3078 Posts |
You can finish clean with B'wave by just putting the cards away. But I can see what you mean, in case someone grabs a card or something.
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EndersGame Inner circle Reviewer EndersGame 2195 Posts |
Quote:
On May 22, 2018, fonda57 wrote: I appreciate the desire to finish clean - it's something I strive for in my magic as well, where possible, especially in the case where people suspect gimmicked cards. But in the case of B'Wave, they have no reason to suspect anything fishy. From their perspective, they've seen all the cards, on both sides even. At most, I've only had it ever happen once that someone wanted to look at the cards. As mentioned by others, after the final reveal, just gather the cards and put them away. People won't ask to see them. Just ask more people who have performed B'Wave how much of an issue this really is - I think you'll find that it isn't. In this case, you have to weigh up whether the GAIN of using non-gaffed cards outweighs the LOSS by needing to use more equivoque. I don't think it does. In my opinion, you lose more than you gain by adding more equivoque. Just go with the gaffed version, you'll get stronger reactions, then immediately put away the cards, and the concern you're worried about will be a non-issue. |
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fonda57 Inner circle chicago 3078 Posts |
I don't know that people ever suspect tricky cards.
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Alex Day Regular user 155 Posts |
Why not use two gaffes red blue cards one red qh and one blue qc in a wallet. Then you have a choice of red or black and the back is still different. Chances are people will chose club or heart anyway. Ajaxmagic B'wave copyright 2018. I know no gaff.
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fonda57 Inner circle chicago 3078 Posts |
This is the way B'wave is sold now
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EndersGame Inner circle Reviewer EndersGame 2195 Posts |
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On May 23, 2018, fonda57 wrote: That is actually B'Wave Deluxe, which was released in 2016. As I understand it, this doesn't change the effect as all, but the only difference is: - it now comes with an instruction video from Max Maven - it now comes with multiple sets of gimmicks, so you can customize the cards you use Here's Max Maven himself introducing it: This comes with multiple sets of gimmicks so it can be performed with jokers instead of blanks, and so you can perform it with jacks, queens, or kings. The extra cards aren't provided so as to deal with multiple outs, but just so that you can customize the cards you want to perform it with. So you'd still only use four cards, and those are the ones you'd take with you in your wallet or put on the table when presenting this. The four cards need to be in view before you start performing. In another thread, someone reported that the 15 cards included are as follows: 3x blue-backed blanks, 3x red-backed blanks, 3x blue-backed jokers, 2x kings, 2x queens, 2x jacks. The kings/queens/jacks are all gimmicked, and are just provided to give you a choice of what to use - you'd only use one of those cards when presenting this. See also the reviews at the product page on penguinmagic for more comments: http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/7734 |
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