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karnak Special user Connecticut 747 Posts |
Are the old, half-dollar-sized English pennies commonly used alongside half dollars in so-called "copper and silver" effects really made of copper?
Or would it be more accurate to identify them as bronze? (If so, and unless real silver half dollars are also used in such effects, them I suppose it might be more technically correct to refer to them as "bronze and copper-nickel clad" effects. But that just doesn't have quite the same ring to it.)
For a supernatural chiller mixing magic (prestidigitation, legerdemain) with Magic (occultism, mysticism), check out my novel MAGIC: AN OCCULT THRILLER at http://www.amazon.com/Magic-Occult-Thriller-Reed-Hall/dp/1453874836
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Bridgehouse New user 61 Posts |
They are bronze. Even back in Victorian Times from the first issues. Always been a copper-tin-zinc mix (bronze) - tho it’s worth pointing out that the mixes did differ over time, they are at least 95% copper. We refer to Silver Dollars as Silver Dollars even though they are only about 90% Silver, so at 95% copper you can get away with calling them copper coins, even though they are in fact Bronze
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karnak Special user Connecticut 747 Posts |
Could the slight differences in exact composition over the years perhaps account for why my more recent (1967 or thereabout, "Queen Elizabeth") English pennies stay reddish/orangey despite efforts to tarnish/patina them, whereas I have some much older "King George V" English pennies that are almost dark chocolate brown by contrast?
For a supernatural chiller mixing magic (prestidigitation, legerdemain) with Magic (occultism, mysticism), check out my novel MAGIC: AN OCCULT THRILLER at http://www.amazon.com/Magic-Occult-Thriller-Reed-Hall/dp/1453874836
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Bridgehouse New user 61 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 4, 2018, karnak wrote: Age has a lot to do with it - and if the 67 pennies are uncirculated then they will still have some original “lustre” or coating. A lot of 1967 pennies were uncirculated as it was the last year of production before switching to decimalisation. Chances are your late pennies are pretty much uncirculated so won’t tarnish the same. They will, with use, lose this and start to age the same, but it will take a while!! |
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karnak Special user Connecticut 747 Posts |
I prefer the darker brown appearance of the older pennies, as it contrasts better (especially in low-light conditions) with shiny silvery half dollars. Think I may do some experimenting with Palmolive dish soap (I’ve heard that its original formula contains sulfates and sulfites, giving it somewhat similar properties to Liver of Sulfur, which I understand is often used to darken/tarnish/patina bronze, copper, and brass).
Is there an effective way of first removing the newer pennies’ “lustre” coating, other than by years of handling?
For a supernatural chiller mixing magic (prestidigitation, legerdemain) with Magic (occultism, mysticism), check out my novel MAGIC: AN OCCULT THRILLER at http://www.amazon.com/Magic-Occult-Thriller-Reed-Hall/dp/1453874836
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Bridgehouse New user 61 Posts |
You could try some acetone to remove any coatings, or if you have access to it then 100% alcohol. Similarly, clean with baking soda and water, or vinegar/lemon juice with salt in to give you a consistent start point.
You could then try potassium sulphide/ liver of sulphur, just vinegar (no salt), or bleach which will all add a patina of some description - you just need to see which one you like most. Bleach will give it a little verdigris (greenish) as well. It’s also worth noting that unlike silver coins, using copper coins will speed up the tarnishing as well as it’s an oxidisation process. You could also try rubbing in some good old fashioned dirt (!) and leaving it for a while, and apparently leaving your coins out in the sunlight (UV) speeds up the tarnishing as well. |
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John Long Inner circle New Jersey 2826 Posts |
To prevent the coin from continuing on to a darker color, you could apply clear nail polish (all sides). This will keep the appearance pretty well, but the feel of the coin may be more slippery .
John
Breathtaking Magic;
Not Breath Taking |
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karnak Special user Connecticut 747 Posts |
I cleaned my copper coins, then soaked them overnight in Palmolive and water. Nothing happened — no change, no darkening at all. Hmmmmm....
For a supernatural chiller mixing magic (prestidigitation, legerdemain) with Magic (occultism, mysticism), check out my novel MAGIC: AN OCCULT THRILLER at http://www.amazon.com/Magic-Occult-Thriller-Reed-Hall/dp/1453874836
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Bridgehouse New user 61 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 6, 2018, karnak wrote: Did they clean up well? |
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karnak Special user Connecticut 747 Posts |
All too well. They're as bright and shiny as my half dollars -- making them indistinguishable from each other under certain lighting conditions, distances, and/or angles.
Had read about arts & crafts folks using Palmolive (it contains various sulfur compounds) to darken copper, bronze, and even brass quickly and effectively. But I've had no such luck using it to darken shiny English pennies.
For a supernatural chiller mixing magic (prestidigitation, legerdemain) with Magic (occultism, mysticism), check out my novel MAGIC: AN OCCULT THRILLER at http://www.amazon.com/Magic-Occult-Thriller-Reed-Hall/dp/1453874836
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Bridgehouse New user 61 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 7, 2018, karnak wrote: Try dropping them in some neat vinegar for a while - and see if that aids patina. Your other choice is to keep them in a pocket near the skin and let your natural sweat do its thing. |
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karnak Special user Connecticut 747 Posts |
In my experience, vinegar shines them up (almost instantly).
Would leaving them for an extended period really have the opposite effect?
For a supernatural chiller mixing magic (prestidigitation, legerdemain) with Magic (occultism, mysticism), check out my novel MAGIC: AN OCCULT THRILLER at http://www.amazon.com/Magic-Occult-Thriller-Reed-Hall/dp/1453874836
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Bridgehouse New user 61 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 7, 2018, karnak wrote: In another life I age metal parts for guitars - most are brass, copper, nickel etc.. I leave them in a tub floating on vinegar which is also in a tub and sealed. The vapours off the vinegar give a really rich dark patina to the metal if left overnight. You could actually try this with your coins and see what happens (you can re clean them if it doesn't work out) I have to say, though, for newer pennies (post about 1930) the only real effective patina creation is with good old fashioned handling and sweat. That, and leaving them on the window sill to get some UV and a bit of proper dirt rubbed in. |
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David Neighbors V.I.P. 4910 Posts |
Proper Dirt??? So it does not Work with improper Dirt!
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Bridgehouse New user 61 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 7, 2018, David Neighbors wrote: If you can find some improper dirt then I reckon it’s worth a try |
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CarpetShark Special user 576 Posts |
Has anyone tried Blacken-It on their English pennies ? If not, I can try one for sh*ts and giggles and let you guys know how it works....
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karnak Special user Connecticut 747 Posts |
Please do keep us posted!
For a supernatural chiller mixing magic (prestidigitation, legerdemain) with Magic (occultism, mysticism), check out my novel MAGIC: AN OCCULT THRILLER at http://www.amazon.com/Magic-Occult-Thriller-Reed-Hall/dp/1453874836
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karnak Special user Connecticut 747 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 7, 2018, Bridgehouse wrote: Interesting, as I play guitar myself, and mod some of them too (no aging of parts, or “relic”-ing; just functional stuff like shielding, scalloping, etc.).
For a supernatural chiller mixing magic (prestidigitation, legerdemain) with Magic (occultism, mysticism), check out my novel MAGIC: AN OCCULT THRILLER at http://www.amazon.com/Magic-Occult-Thriller-Reed-Hall/dp/1453874836
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CarpetShark Special user 576 Posts |
Karnak, ok, I'll give it a go and get back to you asap. Another guitarist! Seems there are quite a few of us who dabble in coin magic as well as working on scales etc. Might have something to do with 'dexterity'... what do you think ? (been playing guitar and bass for nearly fifty years now...wow, time is not my friend!).
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mr_misdirection New user 51 Posts |
Karnak,
Have you tried Liver of Sulpher Patina Gel? I've seen this used on bronze and copper items with great effect although I've not tried it myself on coins. I am aware that on some items the patina was not stable and came off easily. I have in the past used enamel paint (the type model makers use) to alter the colour of a coin by lightly brushing it so that the markings are not lost. |
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