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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » I use my five senses to create the illusion of a sixth (26 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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BruMagic
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Hi everyone,

OK, with the phrase, "I use my five senses to create the illusion of a sixth", how much do we consider that phrase, "in the public domain". Is the consensus that clearly belongs to a single performer, or has it been used a bit too much for that to still be the case.

I've googled it, and I can't see it anywhere online. Perhaps I've got it one or two words off...

Any thoughts?

Cheers.
IAIN
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Ned Rutledge...
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IAIN
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If you use the Café search and look for "five senses to create" you'll find loads of stuff...
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BruMagic
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Quote:
On Jun 17, 2018, IAIN wrote:
If you use the Café search and look for "five senses to create" you'll find loads of stuff...


Hey,

Yeah - I've done that. There isn't too much. But, if I Google, "five senses to create", nothing comes up. Even if I put it in speech marks and add 'Ned' at the end...
Mindpro
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I certainly do not think it is "public domain" as it was Ned's and then later used with permission by Banachek. As far as I know, others using this or an adaptation of this is simply them just helping themselves without permission from its creator.

I'm really not sure why others would want to do this knowing others are using it.
MentalistCreationLab
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If we have between 19-21 why are you only using the main five to create an illusion of the 6? Seems to me your cheating yourself.
Mindpro
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Why a mentalist would want to use the term illusion is beyond me. Are you giving us an illusion of being a mentalist?
Philemon Vanderbeck
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The phrase is sufficiently well-known to the point that I'm able to use a reversal of it for my opening line, and I get a chuckle from my audience every time.

Even though I technically hold the copyright for my variation, I've seen another performer use the line without my permission.

Sigh . . . such is the nature of our "art."
Professor Philemon Vanderbeck
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"I use my sixth sense to create the illusion of possessing the other five."
IAIN
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Quote:
On Jun 17, 2018, MentalistCreationLab wrote:
If we have between 19-21 why are you only using the main five to create an illusion of the 6? Seems to me your cheating yourself.

Very good point, plenty of other senses now defined and named... some good presentation angles too...
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In fact, we have at least thirty distinct senses (each performed by a different physical mechanism).
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John C
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Quote:
On Jun 17, 2018, MentalistCreationLab wrote:
If we have between 19-21 why are you only using the main five to create an illusion of the 6? Seems to me your cheating yourself.


It would make your show too long.
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Mr. Mindbender
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Also, “I use my 30 senses to create the illusion of a 31st!” just doesn’t have the same ring to it.
Lemniscate
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Ah, a very interesting topic/debate to be sure. Those of you with backgrounds as professional comedians are perhaps rolling your eyes at this whole conversation though.

Regarding this specific phrase, there are 3 elements of introduction that it addresses. It introduces what is going to happen ("ESP" will be demonstrated), it grounds this demonstration of ESP in a familiar way (a "6th" sense is introduced hence the "extra sense" part of ESP), and it addresses whether or not people should "believe" what they see.

Obviously Mindpro has an issue with the last one, so I'm not surprised he did his usual "purposeful misunderstanding" to try to make his point (at least he's consistent). I'll ignore that "disclaimer" part, as it's a personal choice anyway except to MP.

The first two are critical. You build an expectation in the minds of the audience. Darwin Ortiz actually uses a good example with movies (a double feature actually) in his Strong Magic book. Maybe you think you can/do just fine without an intro but if so, just read that portion of Strong Magic to get an idea of how expectations influence responses (if you don't already know at least).

That next point is where I see a few of you, IN MY OPINION, doing the mentalist thing where you think being clever is better than being clear. The strength of the Rutledge phrase is that it leverages familiarity to implant the idea of a suggestion (5 senses give rise to a 6th in some manner). As MentalistCreationLab comments, one can make the argument for many more (I still like Doug Dyment's writings on this... is it in Mindsights? I can't remember). However, as just this conversation here demonstrated, a phrase like that instantly invokes push back from the audience. Unless you're going to define every single one of the senses, it comes across as posturing at best and ignorance at worst. That's just my opinion of what the audience sees but... seriously read the posts in this thread and tell me if it doesn't sound like people don't know what they are talking about, even MentalistCreationLab gave a range and Doug simple said "at least thirty."

I don't see any of these having the emotional, intellectual, or theatrical impact of the original comment. Not even close. Not even sort of close.

Ok, so where I am at is that we ignore the "disclaimer" portion, the introduction to expectations is important, and giving a random sounding number of senses seems counterproductive. That answers MentalistCreationLab's question right there ("why are you only using the main five to create an illusion of the 6?"), offers an explanation of why the phrasing is so catchy, and introduces the idea of a non-disclaimer disclaimer.

Ok, so that is the phrase. Next is the discussion about "stealing" material. Again, as comedians know, this is a hot topic. Is the general topic off-limits (almost never), is the more specific topic off-limits (here it gets dicey), and is the exact joke or format off-limits (more often than not). I'm of the opinion that exact phrasings or jokes are off-limits (unless they are sold/given away). If I like a specific topic or approach, I'll work my ass off to make it totally unique. But I'm also never so delusional to think that nobody could come up with it on their own. George Carlin had a joke about the difficulty of actually being original, it's something maybe everyone posting here should read, it's quite good.

IF I heard someone use this 5-6 senses line (or some small variation thereof), that's fine. But I think it would tinge the rest of that performance as perhaps being derivative or uncreative (whether it is or it is not) for me. Unfair, sure but it's a natural response to hearing what is essentially a canned line. Generally, I tend to refer to those performers as hacks, but that is just me.

And my lunch break is over, so I'll stop there.

Good luck and stay/be original,
Lem
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landmark
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Quote:
IF I heard someone use this 5-6 senses line (or some small variation thereof), that's fine. But I think it would tinge the rest of that performance as perhaps being derivative or uncreative (whether it is or it is not) for me. Unfair, sure...


Not unfair at all. The truth.
"I use my five illusions to create the sense I'm useful to six."



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Scott
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Quote:
On Jun 19, 2018, IAIN wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 19, 2018, Scott wrote:
What's a disclaimer?? Smile


https://youtu.be/tl4VD8uvgec


Hmm, not sure weather to take offence at the implication or just laugh my arse off at the genius that is Mel Brooks!

Laughing it is.

Cheers
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The Hermit
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I never saw the value of that line anyway. It seems too compact to be an effective disclaimer. Derren Brown's, I use psychology,etc seems more of an effective explanation/disclaimer if you feel you need one. I think it goes right over the head of an audience and most don't care anyway. Since, so many use it now it's kind of a cliche'. Disclaimers are something that is important to the performer, not the audience. Why use them anyway?
Scott
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On Jun 20, 2018, The Hermit wrote:
I never saw the value of that line anyway. It seems too compact to be an effective disclaimer. Derren Brown's, I use psychology,etc seems more of an effective explanation/disclaimer if you feel you need one. I think it goes right over the head of an audience and most don't care anyway. Since, so many use it now it's kind of a cliche'. Disclaimers are something that is important to the performer, not the audience. Why use them anyway?


Agreed.
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Marko Ragnos
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Quote:
On Jun 20, 2018, The Hermit wrote:
I never saw the value of that line anyway. It seems too compact to be an effective disclaimer. Derren Brown's, I use psychology,etc seems more of an effective explanation/disclaimer if you feel you need one. I think it goes right over the head of an audience and most don't care anyway. Since, so many use it now it's kind of a cliche'. Disclaimers are something that is important to the performer, not the audience. Why use them anyway?

To gain an illusion. If you say these magic words, then nobody will call you a bad person.
Mr. Mindbender
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“I use the explanation of psychology to create the illusion that I only have 5 senses!”
IAIN
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I use nonsense to create the illusion of carrots.
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