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Bill08 Special user Montreal 719 Posts |
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3163 Posts |
It works.
Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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DrBrewhaha New user 58 Posts |
Don't those guys watch YouTube. 182 games leads to casualness.
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Cliffg37 Inner circle Long Beach, CA 2491 Posts |
It makes for a good laugh, but in my mind that is not baseball, it is trickery. Some people might even call it cheating. As magicians, we get paid to cheat; sports athletes do not.
Magic is like Science,
Both are fun if you do it right! |
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S2000magician Inner circle Yorba Linda, CA 3465 Posts |
Quote:
On Jul 12, 2018, Cliffg37 wrote: I remember in Little League being taught to know where the ball is, always. There's no trickery here, and no cheating. These guys are being paid big bucks to pay attention. Furthermore, they have base coaches who are supposed to help them in that respect. It's their own stupidity, pure and simple. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Quote:
On Jul 12, 2018, Cliffg37 wrote: To me this is ridiculous. It is PART of the game. When you play at that level you have to be paying attention. It happens every so often. It is a mental game as much if not more than a physical game. This is not cheating. Cheating by definition is plays that are outside the rules. NOTHING in the rules says that if a guy is not paying attention and his coaches are not paying attention as well that you can't tag him. These guys do not have some honor code they have to play by. The rules are the rules and what was done was well within those rules. If you can inform me as to why this is "cheating" I am wiling to rethink my position.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Bill08 Special user Montreal 719 Posts |
It might not be cheating, but something about it seems a bit unsportsmanlike. Its not the kind of play we teach to children who are learning the game. I like to think baseball is mostly a game of skill, not trickery
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
I certainly learned it in Pony League.
So the trick plays in football are obviously cheating as well?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Cliffg37 Inner circle Long Beach, CA 2491 Posts |
I don't need to convince you of anything Danny. I don't care if you agree with me or not. The fact that you are offering me to try tells me your mind is made up.
I do not expect to change your mind, but I will explain my position. In these instances, the baseman did not get the runner out because the defense was better than the offense. In baseball that is the game, can the batter not only hit the ball such that he can get on base but also aiming and controlling it so that the fielding team has a hard time getting to the ball. The pitcher's job is to get the ball to the catcher such that the batter can not do that, or does it badly making an easy out. Once on 1st base, the psychology of stealing second comes into play. Very complex this psychology and takes into account many things. How far is the runner leading, how far is the 1st baseman from the base? (He needs to be far enough to catch a grounder to right field, but close enough to catch a pick-off attempt. Yes there are signals so the 1st baseman knows if the pitcher will try) How fast can the runner run and how fast can the pitcher throw? What is the score and who has more to lose in a pickoff attempt? all come into play, and that is before we talk about distractions and paying attention. The last time the New York Mets were in the world series, a relief pitcher who I had never seen before nor seen since tried to pick a guy off who was leading from 2nd base. I thought it was foolish to try that. The pitcher has a nice corner of the eye view of 1st base, but not of 2nd. The ball was poorly thrown, went wild, and the runner stole 3rd very successfully. Pretty much everything was wrong with that play, at least from the defense point of view. The runner probably felt he got lucky over the pitcher's poor judgment. So what is wrong with "pretending" to throw the ball to catch the runner off base? Well, one, the runner, indeed as you said, needs to not be paying attention. The other part though is that the baseman has to believe the runner is not paying attention. That or he is just taking a chance and gambling. How would the fans react if it had not worked? If the baseman pretends to throw the ball and the runner keeps his foot firmly on the base, knowing that the ball is still there? Anyway, some might call it cheating, some might call it thinking outside of the box, but I don't call it baseball.
Magic is like Science,
Both are fun if you do it right! |
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3163 Posts |
I would call it sneaky, but not cheating.
Nearly every high school football team has at least one ‘trick’ play in their playbook. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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Bill08 Special user Montreal 719 Posts |
Then again, it is a game that permits stealing bases, if you can get away with it, so I guess the fake throw is part of the game. Some sports don't allow this type of play though. I'm not a sports expert but I believe it's basketball where if you jump to take the shot you have to actually take the shot before landing
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3163 Posts |
Quote:
On Jul 12, 2018, Bill08 wrote: Yes basketball rules are different, You can’t run with the ball or jump without shooting. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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0pus Inner circle New Jersey 1739 Posts |
I thought that the rule was that you couldn't land with the ball in your hands. That is, I thought that you could jump and pass the ball to a teammate.
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Found a nice "news" site: https://www.truthbrary.org/
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3163 Posts |
Quote:
On Jul 12, 2018, 0pus wrote: Yes you right, you can jump and pass, but you can't jump to fake a shot at the basket. Sorry I wasn't clear. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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Jack Straw Inner circle Wichita 1020 Posts |
It really is very simple, Cliff- if it was cheating, the umpires would not allow it, correct?
Remember, the ball is in play at all times unless a time out is called. If you're not sure where the ball is, stay on the base. I believe a long time ago a player deliberately mis-threw a potato in to the field and then proceeded to get a runner out because he was still holding on to the ball. Now if that isn't cheating, I don't know what is. What's that old baseball maxim- Keep your eye on the ball?
Jack Straw from Wichita, cut his buddy down
And dug for him a shallow grave, and laid his body down Half a mile from Tucson, by the morning light One man gone and another to go, my old buddy you're moving much too slow We can share the women, we can share the wine |
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Cliffg37 Inner circle Long Beach, CA 2491 Posts |
Jack, the way you put that does make sense.
Magic is like Science,
Both are fun if you do it right! |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
I just have a problem with the idea that "cheating" somehow happened in that play.
No matter what "some may call it" the actin is within the rules. Therfore it is absolutely not cheating. And it most certainly IS baseball. Making the other team pay attention the entire game is part of it. Otherwise you may as well hold a home run derby.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Jack Straw Inner circle Wichita 1020 Posts |
I just watched the whole thing again (I loved all of the plays!), and after one of the pick offs on third base, the announcer noted that the pitcher was standing off of the mound just as the rules state.
So you see, there actually are rules governing these things.
Jack Straw from Wichita, cut his buddy down
And dug for him a shallow grave, and laid his body down Half a mile from Tucson, by the morning light One man gone and another to go, my old buddy you're moving much too slow We can share the women, we can share the wine |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Exactly When you get lazy and don't pay attention is when you get picked off.
IF the pitcher had balked or any number of other things that would be against the rules. If he had pretended to go into the stretch on the mound and so forth. This is my problem. When you use a word like "cheating" it calls into question the character of the person you are claiming did the cheating. When you claim it is somehow not baseball then again it brings up an entire list of things that seem less than fair to say when someone followed all the rules but just caught an opponent being less than vigilant during the game. It is a very unfair characterization in my view.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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