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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Gambling Spot » » Bottom deal grips (7 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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TH10111
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...not a big fan of the neck-tying action.

One advantage of using a full grip with a take that extracts the card from the front of the deck, is that it removes any finger flash.
cbharrelson
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On the subject of bottom deal grips. The first time I heard the term mechanics grip was from John Scarne. he dealt 2nds much like Steve Forte and others from Standard mechanics grip. Because he had large hands when he dealt a bottom he shifted his left second finger to the upper right corner. However he did not grip the corner he still gripped the deck with first finger and palm. He still called this a mechanics grip. Modified erdnase grips the deck between the second finger and palm. Any comments?
liamwilson1125
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On Nov 8, 2018, cbharrelson wrote:
On the subject of bottom deal grips. The first time I heard the term mechanics grip was from John Scarne. he dealt 2nds much like Steve Forte and others from Standard mechanics grip. Because he had large hands when he dealt a bottom he shifted his left second finger to the upper right corner. However he did not grip the corner he still gripped the deck with first finger and palm. He still called this a mechanics grip. Modified erdnase grips the deck between the second finger and palm. Any comments?


IMO any grip with first and second finger at the front will belong to Erdnase Grip category
Cagliostro
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On Nov 8, 2018, liamwilson1125 wrote:

IMO any grip with first and second finger at the front will belong to Erdnase Grip category


Not to be overshadowed by Erdnase and his grip for the bottom deal, many years ago I came up with what I immodestly named the Cagliostro Grip Bottom Deal.

(Attaching one's name to a grip or technique give added credibility and elevates one to the level of being an expert card table man. It further ensures one gets proper credit for his accomplishment, regardless of how trivial the achievement or how inane one's postulations on same may be.)

Instead of having the left middle finger on the upper right-hand corner of the deck, the CAG grip brilliantly places the left RING finger on the upper right-hand corner. This grip reduces finger flash completely as the left little finger is essentially held straight on the bottom of the deck and the first three finger on the front of the deck block the bottom deal action. This technique is so good, you can challenge any advertised card table expert to detect the difference between a bottom deal and a top deal, even when looking directly at the hands from the front, sides or any other angle. Indeed, aside from myself, there are only two other experts in the world who have master this imperceptible technique.

Also note by completely eliminating finger flash and sound difference with this grip, it obviates the need for first joint finger amputation as was frequently done back in the day by dedicated bottom deal pros to reduce finger flash.

I originally renamed the Erdnase grip the Grotesque Grip since it was so bizarre to look at. Not to be overshadowed by other "experts," who have come up with "advanced" versions of the bottom deal, I renamed my extraordinary and imperceptible bottom deal the Cagliostro Advanced Grotesque Grip Bottom Deal Par Excellence.

(For those intrepid souls who wish to tackle this technique, be aware I estimate it takes about 8 to 10 years of assiduous practice to achieve virtuoso mastery. Of course, since I play the Banjo, I got it down if about 10 minutes.)

Just a little bit of history for the edification of the membership.

PS...For a price, I sell a course for those who wish to learn to play the Banjo. Interested parties may PM me for further information or find me on YouTube.)
Peterson
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Sorry to break it down for you Cag, but the three finger in the front deal was used by real hustlers before you were even born. I remember Vernon talked about the guy from Kentucky who was using this grip in casino environment. The only way Vernon could find him is by asking a little girl about the location of the governor's mansion. Can you believe this luck? That little girl turned out to be the daughter of Erdnase, but that is a completely different story.
Cagliostro
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On Nov 8, 2018, Peterson wrote:
Can you believe this luck? That little girl turned out to be the daughter of Erdnase, but that is a completely different story.


Peterson, You are incredibly well informed. The only thing you were not aware of was "that little girl" was my great grandmother.

Oh, I see...you were aware of that. That was what your reference to "a completely different story" was all about.
ssibal
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On Nov 8, 2018, cbharrelson wrote:
On the subject of bottom deal grips. The first time I heard the term mechanics grip was from John Scarne. he dealt 2nds much like Steve Forte and others from Standard mechanics grip. Because he had large hands when he dealt a bottom he shifted his left second finger to the upper right corner. However he did not grip the corner he still gripped the deck with first finger and palm. He still called this a mechanics grip. Modified erdnase grips the deck between the second finger and palm. Any comments?


There’s an old short where Scarne exposes various moves and one of them is the bottom deal. The deal is shown from a few different angles and his grip looked more like an variation of an Erdnase grip than a mechanics.
Last Laugh
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Cagliostro
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Scarne had fast hands and was quite skillful during the time period in which he flourished, which was a long time ago. I never really liked his bottom deal as he used basically a Erdnase type grip and everytime he dealt a bottom, he telegraphed it because he would extend the ring and middle fingers of his dealing hand when reaching for the base.

Have any of you guys figured out how he controlled the 4 acres to the top after inserting them in different parts of the deck and shuffling the cards face up. He fooled a lot of magicians with that one.

As a youngster I was wowed by a lot of this razzmatazz nonsense, but when I grew up it all changed.

But nice videos of Scarne.
cbharrelson
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I figured it out some time ago. In fact this video shows 2 of my favorite Scarne tricks. That one and Switchcraft which he did on the beer commercial. My other favorite was his version of cutting the aces where he shuffles and lets a spectator cut the deck. Cag like you I did not favor his bottom deal. I chose Mickey McDougals as I found it more practical under fire.
liamwilson1125
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On Nov 10, 2018, cbharrelson wrote:
I chose Mickey McDougals as I found it more practical under fire.


Haven't heard of Mickey before.

Ah yes regarding under fire, check out these 2 videos.

https://youtu.be/h2bEGte1Tso
https://youtu.be/uQfpqA1LKzM
cbharrelson
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That deal would work under fire. one way I used the bottom was in 2 handed 5 stud. honest shuffle and cut bottom peek bottom deal opponents down card.
Cagliostro
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On Nov 10, 2018, cbharrelson wrote:

...one way I used the bottom was in 2 handed 5 stud. honest shuffle and cut bottom peek bottom deal opponents down card.


Oh c'mon. A ploy like this does not excite. It does not titillate. It will not get you a gambling expert hero status button or get you invited to the next Magic Convention or Gaming Protection seminar. They will not write books about your exploits traveling the world beating all who dare to challenge you, or expound on your spending years in a Tibetan Monetary assiduously practicing to achieve an undetectable bottom deal.

No...no adulation, no hero badge, no sexy dancing girls for you...

However, it seems it would achieve the ignoble purpose of winning all the money in the scenario described. Smile
cbharrelson
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Not looking for one. Merely pointed out one way to use the bottom deal under fire. Only one bottom deal in a round of play. Easy to misdirect one opponent and advantage equivalent dealing a marked deck.
Last Laugh
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On Nov 11, 2018, cbharrelson wrote:
Not looking for one. Merely pointed out one way to use the bottom deal under fire. Only one bottom deal in a round of play. Easy to misdirect one opponent and advantage equivalent dealing a marked deck.


I think he was complimenting your play, albeit with a great deal of sarcasm aimed at the magician/demo crowd.
liamwilson1125
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On Nov 11, 2018, cbharrelson wrote:
That deal would work under fire


It did work. The 2 guys you saw on the videos are not magicians.
cbharrelson
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Yes you are right about Cag. It is well known about his ongoing debates with the demo people. I really enjoy the debates. I personally respect the skill needed to do a good demo and I think they have it very hard in the day of cameras. The demo must be visually deceptive and they announce ahead of time what they are doing and definantly leave themselves open to criticism.
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