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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » Why Do All Magician on WGM Execute The Riffle Improperly? (15 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Steven Keyl
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The Jerx has tried to introduce as comprehensive a study as his own time and money will allow on a topic that most people have already made up their minds about. Is it scientifically rigorous? No. But that doesn't automatically invalidate the findings.

Is it possible the CF isn't as fooling as we think? Possibly, but we should spend more time analyzing our own performances for tells or weaknesses, regardless of which force we use.

I've been using the CF for years now, and have even been told my other magicians that it didn't "feel" like a CF to them. I'm not going to stop using the CF simply because of Andy's findings--but I also won't dismiss them out of hand.
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Tim Cavendish
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Aside:

Here's a quiet thank you to the moderator who replaced "improbably" with "improperly" in this thread's carelessly butchered title. That's been gnawing at me for this thread's whole 3 1/2 week lifespan. Now if only the missing word could also be supplied...
tltq
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Quote:
On Aug 31, 2018, Last Laugh wrote:

Side note, I am really liking Matthiu Bich's take on the riffle force. It's very deceptive.


The illusion of the deck being separated where the card is inserted is very convincing.

For me, this replaces the Slip Force ( for the top or bottom card).
rjs
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J K Hartman in Card Craft, his massive green book on card magic,has a way of doing the riffle force where you stop the riffle exactly where the spectator says stop.
You then make an invisible adjustment move as you hand out the lower half of the deck for the spectator to take the card.
It doesn't matter if the spectator calls stop before you reach the force card. And it doesn't matter if the spectator calls stop after you have gone past the force card.
See pages 25-26.
David Fillary
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Regarding the Jerx study, I think the main problem with it is that the participants are prejudging it based on the fact they have been asked beforehand to rate its fairness.

This would be like placing a prediction down and then asking the spectator to pick a card that will match the prediction. It would be much harder to pull off a CF in these circumstances and something that is a lot slower and fairer would be better. A think-stop revelation would be very fair.

In contrast, if you do something that overly proves its fairness right from the start, it will probably lead them to conclude you're trying to hide a force, in the same way saying "check out these cards and make sure that they are a regular deck" invites more suspicion.

The classic force is perfect for situations where you want the selection process to feel unimportant. Other methods are better when you want the selection process to be very important.

Still a great study for interest and there's a lot of useful stuff to be learnt from that blog.
Mr Salk
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Quote:
On Sep 2, 2018, tltq wrote:
Quote:
On Aug 31, 2018, Last Laugh wrote:

Side note, I am really liking Matthiu Bich's take on the riffle force. It's very deceptive.


The illusion of the deck being separated where the card is inserted is very convincing.

For me, this replaces the Slip Force ( for the top or bottom card).


Bich's The Force is more of a Slip/Riffle hybrid. He should have worked harder on the moniker.

Layman think most tricks are done with marked-cards or palming, so telling them to rate the fairness of their "choice" will get skewed results.
You've exposed the method and then asked then to rank their levels of incredulity.
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