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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Nothing up my sleeve... » » Tips on keeping attention on the coins and not on whats hiding (13 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

will lane
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I'm working on coin routines like 3-Flys and coins across and similar (some with a gaff, some not), and am curious about some subtleties that help keep attention on the "action" and not the palming hand. Other than just performing a good palm, of course.

Obvious ones are just not looking at the palming hand/putting attention on the action, and pushing the "action" hand towards the audience. For 3-Flys, making bigger gestures, watching the coin "fly", and having a wider spread between the to-be-transferred hand and the already-transferred hand.

What are some things you do?
JoeHohman
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Speed. Coin effects should flow pretty quickly. Even if you are as funny as Richard Pryor or as charming as Tom Hanks, you should be moving along. It is possible to go TOO fast; but most performers seem to err on the other side.

Motion. Large motions (a hand or even arm swinging from right to left) can effectively conceal a small motion (a finger placing a coin to be palmed).

Misdirection. Use your own eyes; look at the hand that is supposed to be holding the coin. Wiggle the fingers of the closed fist supposedly holding the coin.

Another prop. Hold onto a pen; another coin; a bandana; your spectator's elbow.
will lane
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Quote:
On Sep 13, 2018, JoeHohman wrote:
Speed. Coin effects should flow pretty quickly. Even if you are as funny as Richard Pryor or as charming as Tom Hanks, you should be moving along. It is possible to go TOO fast; but most performers seem to err on the other side.
Interesting. With my 3-Fly I'm working on, there is a lot of potential for dead space. I was thinking talking could help misdirect, but keeping moving so there is no time to notice anything sounds better.
Ironjim
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Hey Will -

There's lots of resources to help with this. From books to videos, and I'm sure more experienced members will have lots of advice. Some resources that I found to be helpful are Bill Tarr's 'Now You It, Now You Don't' book and Penguin Live Lecture by Tom Stone. With coins in particular people are going to 'burn' your hands. Do your best to direct there attention to where you want it to go. And really 'believe' that when you do a Fa**e T**e, it is in your taking hand, not left behind.

Good luck.
JoeHohman
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Will, I meant to ask you earlier -- how are you holding up with Florence? Did you evacuate?
will lane
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On Sep 13, 2018, JoeHohman wrote:
Will, I meant to ask you earlier -- how are you holding up with Florence? Did you evacuate?
Thanks for asking! Florence hasn't really hit here yet. Or if it has hit, it isn't really doing much. The majority of the storm looks like it is hitting more towards the lower part of NC towards SC. I ordered a shell from SC yesterday so I hope it doesn't get blown away... Smile
warren
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A good learning source is Daryl's 3fly111 as he shows a few subtleties along with a really nice false count at the beginning of his routine with regards to 3fly type routines.

To add to the good advice already given I would say first choose the right routine for the environment your in as sometimes a regular coins across is more suitable, other things that can be added are things like the kaps subtlety, basic shuttle passes and my favourite technique the goshman pinch when working in a standing situation, but use these in a subtle way ie don't be obvious and don't over prove.

In the mean time have fun and put in plenty of practice, video yourself and once you feel it's looking good go out there and perform it....good luck Smile
countrymaven
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Excellent post Joe. I am a coin guy but still needed to hear the rare and great advice you offered.
Will, another thing to look out for: some effects WORK for us, and some work better for others (I know this sounds silly but it is profound as you experience this). Try it and determine if 3 fly is for you.
For me, Roth's coins across is cleaner and people don't have to wonder what is in my hands with it....
fonda57
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Get a hold of the Gary Kurtz book Lesding With Your Head. He writes a lot about creating an off beat with his active/relaxed states.

And have fun
Griff
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Hi Will. I see you are working on a 3 fly routine and I wanted to share my thoughts. Most magicians think that 3 fly has to be a "middle effect", meaning that it really can't stand on it's own because it has to be done quickly. There has to be a production, then 3 fly and then an ending. I disagree with this. Presentation and misdirection is everything. Routine your's around an interesting presentation and then find those "tense and relax moments" for the misdirection. Study Gary Kurtz, he is a master at this. Also watch Simon Coronel's videos. He is great at slowing things down and letting it "sink in". Here is a link to Simon doing a great 3 fly in front of a large audience. He was also on Penn and Teller Fool Us doing a different version of 3 fly. I am sharing this link though because you really see how he misdirects a large audience with all of his effects. 3 fly is the second effect. LOVE his bill switch on the first effect!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIGjVFo7xoc&t=3s
SmileAndNod
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Something I've been thinking about lately is the importance of intention. Remember that every move you make, as well as everything you say is communicating something to the audience. Having your right hand raised above your left hand is saying 'something' to the audience. Maybe it's saying the right hand is more important than the left hand, or maybe it says you're trying to hide something in the left hand, I don't know, but it's saying 'something'. The better you understand what your actions and words are saying to the audience, the easier it is to control where the spectators are looking. They are reacting to you. It honestly doesn't matter how much they know, how smart they are, or how observant, if they are looking in the wrong place, it's because you're not communicating effectively what you want to communicate. Coin magic, more than any other form of magic in my opinion, suffers from unclear intention in actions. After a false transfer, a magician stands with both arms bent at the elbows. One hand is closed into a fist, (the hand the coin is supposed to be in) and the other hand is hanging in midair, fingers bent. What is the other hand communicating to the audience? But even more than that, what was the false transfer communicating? Why did you put the coin in the other hand. If a spectator is standing on my right and the coin is in my left hand and I wanted to hand the spectator the coin, it would make sense for me to transfer the coin to the other hand. The left hand, after "transferring" the coin would either fall to my side, moving outwards a little bit to stabilize my body as my right hand goes to hand the coin, or rest on the table (also to stabilize the reach). Every action you make has a 'cause' or a 'why'. There is a reason you are moving the way you are. The way to hide moves is to make sure the cause lines up with the effect you are trying to achieve. (He put the coin in the hand to grab the wand. He transferred the coins to the other hand to prove he wasn't hiding an extra coin. His hand is at his side because it's empty.) It also helps to work on your empathy and learn to watch your audience. The more I've been performing I've come to realize I'm not as aware of my audience as I should be. I need to be sure I know how my audience is thinking and feeling. This requires that I be more clear in my patter and actions, so I can make sure they understand what I'm trying to say, verbally and non-verbally. This also requires pausing more, which gives the audience time to understand the situation better. I strongly disagree that speed is important in any way. Take your time. If the audience doesn't understand that the coin is in the hand, what's the point of vanishing it?

There's so much more to talk about. It's a complex subject. Read Tommy Wonder. Read Vernon. Read the Darwin Ortiz books, and Juan Tamariz. Read Slydini, and Gary Kurtz, and Dairel Fitzkee and Euguene Burger and Arturo de Ascanio. I think the true master of attention control is Tom Mullica. Try to find his FISM act and watch his eyes and his body language. Watch magicians with the sound off and see what they're really saying with their actions.
will lane
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^^ That is a great looking 3 fly, and clever patter! And you're right, that bill switch was great. If he used a TT I couldn't tell.
Markus_M
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I'd stand behind the above recommendations of Kurtz and Stone.
Also John Carney has great points on (mis)direction in"Carney on Ramsey".
A PDF I particularly like is "Misdirection for Close-up Magicians" by Tom Crone. You can't go wrong with it for that money.
Have fun,
Markus
Mb217
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Hiya will...Welcome to the Café... Smile

Lot of good advice here, but "misdirection" is the basic key. It also takes time to develop well, but it makes all the difference in the world when you add it to the routine...It really helps make the magic, along with building confidence, better understanding your spectators, and good old practice...just stick with it, you can do it!. Smile And as my grandpa used to say, "I can show you better than I can tell'ya!" Smile

So, as to "misdirection"...




And you mentioned "3-Fly" here, perhaps my little take on it might share some of what's being talked about here... Smile




And again, "Welcome!" Smile

-Mb
*Check out my latest: Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at www.VinnyMarini.com Smile

"Not much new under the sun I hear but under the moon, well who knows, that just might be a horse of a different color." -Mb Smile
Michael Rubinstein
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Al Schneider on Coins discusses intention of magic. See him also discuss it on the NYCMS dvd series volumes 8,9, and 10
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New York Coin Magic Seminar dvd series available for download at: https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/magic/magic-dvds/new-york-coin-magic-seminar-downloads/
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will lane
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I'm currently adjusting my 3-Fly with the suggestions in this thread. It's looking a lot better. I really like Simon Coronel's misdirection by making the moves seemingly in between beats. That would really help for the first phase of the effect, to do the fly off-beat so it catches the audience off guard. Then repeating the fly in the 2nd phase makes more sense.

Also I had thought about "what would it look like if I was really" before, but thinking about it in the way of "what is this motion communicating" really helps to tighten up sleights.
Ray Haining
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It's important to remember Vernon's adage about maintaining naturalness of action. You can have a fantastic palm, good from all angles, and the best misdirection, but if you're holding your hand, say, or the fingers of your hand, in an awkward position, spectators will notice and wonder, "Why is he holding his hand that way?" And figure out, "He must be hiding something."
will lane
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I've been practicing, and I performed the 3 Fly for my girlfriend (she knows how my 3 Fly is done). I was able to follow where her eyes were looking and it seems like everyone's advice has helped. Smile I was able to keep her attention where it needed to be for the effect, and any risky moves were hidden to her sight because her attention was misdirected.
Al Schneider
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Here are a few things I have discovered. Many magicians tend to freeze the hand palming. That forces the audience to look at the hand no matter how good the palm is. I have discovered that small seeming unconscious motions with the hand prevent the audience from even seeing it. For example: adjust your glasses, tie, shirt button while the hand is theoretically uninvolved. Or just rub you fingers together as if they itch. Or use your palming hand to gesture as you talk, the hand moving as if to emphasis what you are saying. The issue is to be creative with the useless hand. Now, here is the real secret for using this. Do it often during previous tricks even though the technique is not needed. That is, the audience sees such motions as part of your natural ticks. I will often do a throw away motion with the hand palming a coin. It looks like the hand is tossing something away. The fingers can remain curled as in common subtle motions. But the key is to use it before it is needed. It is kind of like lapping. I have seen performers do a whole bit then when the need to lap they go to the edge. That is like an alarm going off. I you lap, make a habit of doing the motions many times even when not needed.

There is a bit of a problem that may scare one. Sometimes when doing the throw away motion, the audience will look directly at the hand. However, experience has shown that the audience does not suspect the hand. I have done basic vanishes in which the throw away motions is used. I have had occasion where the spectator looks directly at the moving hand and then exclaims, "Where did the coin go?"

When learning this, one sweats blood.

Here is a final word. When doing a move, look at the audience. When the magic happens, look at your hands.

Al
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.
countrymaven
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Great tip Al, worth a lot!!!
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