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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Nothing up my sleeve... » » Magical impact (2 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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TheAmbitiousCard
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So...What’s more magical... like for reals???

Someone hands you a handful of coins and says “do something”?
You pull out a coin wallet of coins and you say “ let me show you something”?
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fonda57
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I'd say the first. You can do any number of matrix type effect with any coins. Or Dean Dill's no extras. Jay sankey has a good one where people put any number of coins in a jar or something and you guess the dates on three or four coins.

That way nobody needs to examine the coins.
Ironjim
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Maybe you could start with "Hey, have you seen my coins?", pause look around "Oh, wait, there it is" and Produce a coin from say D**ns P*lm, then you could work right into Producing 3 other coins(or however many you need for your next effect)? Seems pretty magical to me.

Impromptu and borrowed coins may work - but you may run into, "sorry I only carry my card".

I would definitely prefer to work with my own coins.
Matthew Crabtree
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Quote:
On Sep 20, 2018, Ironjim wrote:
Maybe you could start with "Hey, have you seen my coins?", pause look around "Oh, wait, there it is" and Produce a coin from say D**ns P*lm, then you could work right into Producing 3 other coins(or however many you need for your next effect)? Seems pretty magical to me.

Impromptu and borrowed coins may work - but you may run into, "sorry I only carry my card".

I would definitely prefer to work with my own coins.


Just because they do not have coins, doens't mean you can;t borrow some other small item from them.
TheAmbitiousCard
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Jim I don’t understand your card comment and I disagree
with the rest.

The “hey have you...” line is completely unauthentic and
would ruin any sense of impromptu feel.
It also sounds like a magician who can’t wait to be
the center of attention.
And do you honestly think producing
4 coins will leave anyone thinking they
weren’t yours to begin with?
That you didn’t set that up?

Cool? Maybe, depending on your ability to pull it off.
Magic? Probably not.


Of course we WANT to work with our own coins.
Who wouldn’t. But I don’t want to be the guy that
everyone knows walks around with a pocket full of miracles.

If your card comment has to do with non-coin stuff
you either use what they give you or you do nothing.


The more you force yourself to succeed with only
borrowed objects the larger your repertoire becomes.
The more opportunity you see in any situation.

There are many coin tricks that can be done without coins

2 in the hand...
No extras
Item thru table
A 1 item routine (a la 1coin routine)
Matrix
Chink-a-chink
Items across
Vanishing item
Item to impossible location.
Tenkai iPhones. (That one was a joke)
Torn and restored item
Etc.

The sheer impossible nature of magic done with borrowed
objects cannot be overstated. (Or is it understated).
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Ironjim
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Hey AC - The 'card' comment was referring to was a debit card. I don't carry cash or coins - other than my props. Most people only carry their debit cards.

I like my props/coins. However, I have also found the most sleights translate to everyday objects. I do agree with all the tricks you mentioned can be done with everyday items.

Your question of what's more 'magical' ... 'shrugs shoulders', if you dig impromptu stuff, more power to you brother. I carry a pocket full of miracles- (5 half dollars, a sh**ll and a chinese coin) - - I can do just about every trick in my arsenal of coin magic (all the tricks you just mentioned and handful of others that I like as well) right there, light easy and just always in my pocket. Not only that, I practice with my props, I understand the feel and where the sweet spots are, so I'm more comfortable and more confident with my coins.

I do appreciate your comments- and I do some impromptu stuff if I don't want to dig out my coins. Super balls are the bomb, they are cheap and you can give em away- -- Again as to what's more magical... I was just offering my opinion.
Ray Haining
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So, TheAmbitiousCard, you asked the question, but already had the answer?
TheAmbitiousCard
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I don't have THE answer but I have noticed there's a large benefit from impromptu.
What I still wonder is... how much of an advantage is it.
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Ray Haining
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The advantage to doing tricks with borrowed objects is that it precludes any possibility of the objects being gaffed. Some tricks require that. For instance, Ring on Wand needs to be done with a borrowed ring because the effect is so impossible to laypeople that if you were to do it with your own ring, they'd latch onto the idea that the ring is somehow gimmicked, even if they are able to examine it. There is no way you can prove to them that it isn't.

Most coin tricks don't have this problem. For instance, how can a coin be gimmicked to make it vanish from one hand and re-appear in the other? So, for the most part, as long as the spectators are satisfied that none of the coins are gimmicked--by handing them out for examination, say--I do not see any advantage of doing coin tricks with borrowed coins.

In fact, there could be disadvantages to using borrowed coins. Which is more impressive, Spellbound with a borrowed dime or Spellbound with your own half-dollar? Or Shadow Coins with borrowed quarters or Shadow Coins with your own Morgan silver dollars?

Trick cards to a layperson are a possibility, and so for card tricks, using a borrowed deck makes sense, but you have the additional consideration of the condition of the deck.

If someone hands you a bunch of coins and tells you to "do something," they are not showing much respect for you as a magician. If you're OK with that, you could tell them that first they must put a coin in your mouth, pull your arm and then you will do a trick for them. Magic on demand. Hmm.

You could also tell them to take a walk.
funsway
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Most here know that I champion using "found objects," effects "not in your hands," and "not on demand."

I feel each of these has the POSSIBILITY of being more magical, and in combination even more so. But ...
The memory later of "must be magic" is the result of expectations of the observer, communications and presentation skills.

For me, a person walking up and saying, "show me something" is not expecting magic - he wants entertainment and skill demonstration.
So, the challenge is to change is expectations to that of magic - then to deliver.
Using offered, borrowed or found objects like candy or nuts may make that easier.

I have made tens of thousands of presentations using six sleights and a gift for stories. Coins, candy, nuts, stones, washers, buttons - whatever.
All led to astonishment. Most were not considered "magical" because they did not know I was a magician or expect a trick to be performed. (see Furst Principles).

Thus, in answer to the OP - the ability to be truly Impromptu is an advantage, but also a challenge as to appropriate choice.

I also feel that each magician should have a couple of mastered effects ready "for that special moment" where the conditions are right for a something incredible.
You might carry it for years - decades. No one knows about it. No one can ask for it - but when you perform it it will be magical and perfect and seemingly in response
to the expectations, desires and readiness for the few people in attendance. My point is the "seeming impromptu" is the result of practice and planning.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



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Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On Sep 20, 2018, TheAmbitiousCard wrote:
I don't have THE answer but I have noticed there's a large benefit from impromptu.
What I still wonder is... how much of an advantage is it.


Folks might have read the stories about John Ramsay asking to borrow a half-penney coin from an American as a way to get a borrowed quarter for a trick ... or noticing that there was an old English Penney in the register.

It can't hurt to get an advanced look for what's likely to be at hand during the show. Smile
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Ray Haining
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The definition of impromptu is: "done without being planned, organized, or rehearsed." So it's good to know a few, or carry around a few, tricks done with (maybe seemingly) ordinary objects, borrowed or otherwise, tricks that when performed seem to the spectator(s) to be impromptu.

That is different from being able to do, on demand, tricks with objects thrust into your face. (I suppose you could specialize in that, being a man-on-the-street, walking, talking Wizard Wars contestant: "Throw anything at me!")

There is also a difference between "ordinary" and "common." A silver dollar is an ordinary object. It is a coin. People are familiar with coins. But it is not (today) a common coin. A paddle with colored spots on it is neither ordinary nor common.
puggo
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I would say that being good with impromptu stuff means that you should be stronger in all of your magic.
While this is about coins/small objects rather than cards, I will use this comparison - being able to cull and palm a card is a good 'out' for most card effects and allows for some good jazzing. In the same way, knowing that you can do something with a few borrowed coins/objects must be good for impromptu as well as planned magic.

While doing a wedding fair a few years ago after showing a couple of effects, I was asked if I could do something with a party favor (a small pack of sweets), so I did a quick Klan/Merrill-ish pen and coin routine using the sweets - it seemed to blow them away as it was borrowed rather than supplied by me.

Impromptu stuff I would do with offered coins/small objects: Pen and coin/item (my phone as a production/finale), Coins to pocket, Coins across, One coin with body loads etc.

I also like the 'magic just happens' style of performance which is easier (and sometimes better?) in impromptu situations - The Jerx has some great thoughts on this. Consider AC's question “do something” vs “let me show you something”?. If you go with the "do something with xx.." question, you have the option of going down another path (those that read the blog will know).
TheAmbitiousCard
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Ray you took from my description (probably my fault) that someone was aggressively shoving inanimate objects in my face and rudely saying "do something".
I merely meant politely being asked to perform something with what's available, such as a handful of coins, a fork, a napkin, etc.

I had no intent to make spectators seem be rude or aggressive.
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Michael Rubinstein
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There are certain tricks with quarters that you can be ready for when someone gives you a quarter and asks to see a trick. Whether it be a simple vanish or something more sophisticated, you can always pull out your own coins and say, "If you liked that one, it will be even more impressive with these bigger coins. " I'll bet they will be eating out of your hands. Especially if you hand them a french fry. Just sayin' Smile
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fonda57
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I'll work for a French fry
Ray Haining
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TheAmbitiousCard, sorry if I misinterpreted your post. I have, like most of us, had to deal occasionally with rude spectators.

Yes, as far as coins go, a simple retention-of-vision vanish of a borrowed quarter and reproduction from your elbow or their ear is usually enough to satisfy most laypeople as to your "abilities."

Of other borrowed items besides coins that can be used in impromptu situations, finger rings and bills come to mind. Phones, of course. I'm sure there are others, but I'm drawing a blank.
funsway
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Everyone can practice with candy kisses that are often available. Easy to palm and that tab allows for some special moves.
The silver foil even allows for POV stuff. Colored ones are available at Christmas for extra possibilities.

I am rewriting "Sleight and the Family Stone" that had effects for 1, 2, 3 and more small objects readily found in an impromptu situation.
The key is the sleights, moves and stratagems useful for "small objects" rather than the items themselves.

The original is available for the asking (an an expectation of useful comments to help my rewrite) ken@eversway.com

....

I would like to draw the distinction between "borrowed" and "not yours" and "freely selected for random objects."
Each might require different scripting to create the anticipation that magic will occur.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



ShareBooks at www.eversway.com * questions at funsway@eversway.com
TheAmbitiousCard
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Another thing I neglected to mention was the actual situation.
I wasn't picturing a paid performance. I was picturing an impromptu performance upon request at a non-magic-related gathering: dinner, bbq, etc.

For an actual performance it's best to use what you're prepared to use. Of course.
I'm not saying you should do a 90 minute close-up act with some dude's socks, another dude's tie and a hanky from a ladies purse.
Although adding something like that can't be an "all bad" idea.

I was referring to when you're just "out with acquaintances who know (or find out) you can do magic" and they politely ask.

For me personally, I'd rather do nothing than pull items out of my pockets that the onlookers know or decide I brought with me.

This entire thread should be in a different forum, I'm realizing:(
It's not really a coin thing. My apologies.

Maybe I could magically get it moved.
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Dougini
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OK. I see why there is such division over the coins in Tresor and REIALME by Jeff Copeland. I don't bring much magic with me in every day living. Unless I'm specifically performing somewhere. Does it make a difference if the coins are "props" like Copeland's, or Morgans and Liberties? You're unlikely to find Morgans in an impromptu situation. Besides, Spellbound and Coins Across/Thru The Table can be done with ANY coins. I dunno. I'm still on the fence about all this...

Doug
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