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The Magic Cafe Forum Index Ľ Ľ The workers Ľ Ľ Possible strategy to learn to get a break under top two cards (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Rachmaninov
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Claudio, what I donít like is the starting position of the left thumb, I think it is more natural to do it from the usual left side of the deck. But considering how hard it is to do double et triple push off from this left side position. Iíve never attempted to go further. And the required efforts seem not usefulness of such a feat.
Bob G
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Rachmaninov, Thanks for your thoughts. So at my rather early point in my magic education it makes sense to keep practicing both methods of getting a break under two cards.



I really like your analysis of the use of exercises in learning. I remember from a very early conversation we had that you're a pianist. I've been taking lessons for roughly 7 years, so I get the gist of your musical analogy.



Back to magic: Can you help me understand how moving the wrist in circles as an exercise helps in improving one's pinky count?
Bob G
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P. S. To continue the "practice exercise" theme: that's how the thread started. I found that I could do the push-off much more easily with a half-deck than with the full deck. Of course, I'm not isolating a difficulty in the way you described, but I'm practicing the sleight in an easier context.
Rachmaninov
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Yes, I can remember now !

And yes, keep practicing the pinky count, itís a marvelous and very useful technique.

Good to establish several steps to climb the mountain Smile Iíve done the same thing (as everybody I assume) for the bottom deal, in reverse, starting with a third of the deck up to the entire deck. My problem is that Iím pretty impatient, and I have the tendency to increase speed to early on the learning process, adopting bad habits in the process, very hard to get rid later. And I have the exact same problem at the piano !
Rachmaninov
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The wrist motion force you to relax during the execution of the technique. This relaxation can become a part of the technique later, making it more natural.
Rachmaninov
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And it is a very hard drill in coordination. Always good for your brain !
Bob G
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Excellent! -- thanks so much, Rachmaninov, for these helpful replies. I have the same problem -- trying to learn everything at once and move too fast. In piano, my teacher reigns me in. Smile


I'm going to try your exercise with the pinky count.
Rachmaninov
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Always happy to help !

As mentioned before, if you work on second deals, push off ones, it will be child play to do a push off for catching a break.

Iím tackling the third movement of the third Rachmaninov piano concerto since a few days. It forces me to learn slowly !
Bob G
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Wow! You must be a really talented pianist. I love Rachmaninov's third concerto -- one of my all-time favorite pieces of music. Are you performing, or doing Music Minus one, or a solo piano arrangement, or, ....? I'm still very much an intermediate-level pianist. One of my favorite pieces that I've mastered is a lovely, somewhat melancholy Khatchaturian (sp?) piece for kids called Ivan Sings, or, sometimes, just Andantino. I'm working on the first movement of a Kuhlau sonatina in C -- very bubbly and upbeat. Generally I find myself drawn to early-to-mid-twentieth C. music -- Prokoviev, Hindemith, Villa Lobos -- though I like a lot of different kinds of music. Big fan of Tchaikovsky's music, but then, who isn't?


Is it worth trying to practice second deals when I'm still having trouble getting breaks under two cards? I had the impression the second deal was really advanced. But I have sometimes found that occasionally doing things that are too hard make it easier to learn the things at one's current level. I tried your exercise a bit tonight. Hard, as you said, but I can see how it would help one relax the hand.
Bob G
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Poof-Daddy,


I found my copy of the Master Pushoff -- yet another front in the battle to get quick, unobtrusive breaks. Wish me luck!



Bob
Rachmaninov
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You said it Bob, practicing things at different levels to improve. I remember a discussion with a pro pianist who was explaining to me that he was playing at the same time the second Bartok concerto and a Mozart concerto. And each one improved the other. A wise thing to consider and apply to our art.

The third concerto is my mostly cherished piece of music. Itís pure genius from the first note up to the last one. Iím an amateur pianist so Iím performing the solo piano part, the actual score but without orchestra. But the writing style of Rachmaninov is orchestral so for the most part of the score, the pianism is so rich that itís wonderful without orchestra. I had learned two thirds of it 20 years ago and now for the remaining part. You can find a solo version by Valentina Lisitsa on YouTube and you will put your ears in a dreamland because you will discover and appreciate every nuance because there is no orchestra to cover the piano like in a full performance. Despite the fact that two orchestras had offered me to play it with them in the past, I had refused. Too much stage fright ! And the difficulty is like dealing bottoms with two decks in hand during 45 min without a single miss ! I have not the balls !

Oh I will listen to this piece by Katchaturian, I donít know well the composers you just cited : Villa Lobos and Hindemith. And Iíve never heard of Kuhlau. It will be a discovery for me. I love the Prokofiev concerto, especially the first and the third. Tchaikovsky ? He was the spirit mentor of Rachmaninov. And you are right, how someone can be insensible to his music !

We should keep this discussion private because I think we are going to loose some magicians friends ! But piano and magic have a lot in common : practice, theory, history, instrument, performance, creativity, rythm, expressivityÖ
Bob G
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I'll PM you about music later today, Rachmaninov.
Rachmaninov
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Bob, I just realize I donít fully answered you. Yes you can practice push off double for second and double dealings, double lift. And go back and forth between those last techniques and the double push off break.
Bob G
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Thanks, I appreciate it, Rachmaninov. I figured based on what you said that you thought it would make sense to go back and forth as you describe.
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