We Remember The Magic Café We Remember
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Street Magic » » The fundamental problem Magicians have with David Blaine (12 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5 [Next]
shadeofgray777
View Profile
New user
chicago
6 Posts

Profile of shadeofgray777
I thinks david blaine is the best thing in the world, he gets me buisness!!

I ask the spectator "have you ever seen david baine?" they say "yes, I love this trick or that trick he did"
then I one up him and they are even more amazed
ed rhodes
View Profile
Inner circle
Rhode Island
2573 Posts

Profile of ed rhodes
Quote:
On 2004-06-10 13:43, crashfreze wrote:
I know the subject of Blaine has been absolutely beaten to death and back. For that I apologize in advance. I would like to offer some insight into his success and the feelings other magicians have for Mr. Blaine.

The reason magician's do not like David Blaine is they feel many many more magicians are more deserving of his success. Magicians like Michael Ammar, Bill Malone, Dai Vernon, Ed Marlo, THESE should be the household names, not David Blaine.

First of all, David is a businessman. A very good one as well. He developed a plan to successfully market his magic to ABC executives and did so. So in other words Blaine marketed his product rather than focusing on making his product better than anyone else's.

To give you an example of this I have been asked the question before: can you make a hamburger better than mcdonalds? Yes of course, anyone can. But, can you create a more efficient business plan than the McDonalds corporation? No, I don't think so. But I don't go around screaming "no fair I can make better hamburgers than mcdonalds" which essentially is what the magic community is saying about David.

So here are a bunch of magicians claiming David does not deserve his success. On the other hand David created a great business plan, marketed it to ABC so I believe he DOES deserve his success, as is often the case, strategy is more important than product.

It's no accident McDonalds is the most successful and profitable food franchise in the world. So essentially I'm saying David Blaine is the McDonalds of magicians, and I definitely don't mean that in a bad way. David did not "get lucky" and fall into his success. And magician's have a problem with that. We should be congratulating David instead of tearing him down.


If you want to equate talent with mass-marketing hamburgers.

Quote:
On 2004-09-22 06:23, Dr_Stephen_Midnight wrote:
>"They're just dumb stunts."

Some feel the same about magic, or about entertainment in general; a pointless activity that achieves nothing functional (how many Amish illusionists have we seen?)


I don't ask that everything in life be functional. I would like things that are not functional to be at least entertaining.

Quote:
>"But that doesn't mean I have to be interested in them."

No it doesn't, but that brings up a greater truth about stunts, about magic, and about life in general.

Importance and where we place interest is a matter of perspective. Most average Joes could not quote you the name of more than one magician (usually Houdini or Merlin).

That alone should deflate the egoes of most self-important magicians (especially escape artists, who have egos as big as Texas).

Strip away the religious beliefs and the self-directed philosophies and we're microbes on a cosmic speck clawing to maintain a pointless survival in a universe that is slowly expanding and unravelling at the molecular level. From that perspective, life itself is a joke and all our efforts an exercise in wheel-spinning. Guess what that says about everything we do or concern ourselves with...including magic?

Steve


Dude! I leave the great questions of life to sort themselves out. Short of harming anyone, I'm just trying to keep myself above water and have as good a time as possible while doing so.
"He was born with the gift of laughter and a sense that the world was mad." - Rafael Sabatini, Scaramouche
Dr_Stephen_Midnight
View Profile
Inner circle
SW Ohio, USA
1555 Posts

Profile of Dr_Stephen_Midnight
"I don't ask that everything in life be functional. I would like things that are not functional to be at least entertaining."

So...if it's not entertaining to YOU...it doesn't go for anyone?

Steve
Dr. Lao: "Do you know what wisdom is?"
Mike: "No."
Dr. Lao: "Wise answer."
ed rhodes
View Profile
Inner circle
Rhode Island
2573 Posts

Profile of ed rhodes
Quote:
On 2004-09-23 17:19, Dr_Stephen_Midnight wrote:
"I don't ask that everything in life be functional. I would like things that are not functional to be at least entertaining."

So...if it's not entertaining to YOU...it doesn't go for anyone?

Steve


Not at all. You want to watch David stand on/in something (an ice cube, a platform, a plastic box) be my guest. Just don't expect me to acknowledge that there's anything of value going on here. (Watching magic, real magic, does have value. It wakes up the "little kid" inside who we keep losing touch with as we get older.)
"He was born with the gift of laughter and a sense that the world was mad." - Rafael Sabatini, Scaramouche
Dr_Stephen_Midnight
View Profile
Inner circle
SW Ohio, USA
1555 Posts

Profile of Dr_Stephen_Midnight
Well, first off, I wonder how far your denigration of "stupid stunts" goes; does it apply to all performers doing them...or just David Blaine (in which case it's not the stunt, but the man).

Harry Houdini spent an hour and a half in a sealed coffin in a swimming pool. The Amazing Randi did the same thing in the 1950s, staying down an extra hour. Years later, Randi broke a guinness record for being entombed in ice.

Do all extraordinary performances that do not involve productions, vanishes, transpositions, etc. constitute "stupid stunts?" If so, I'm afraid a large portion of the human populace are in opposition to your absolutist view.

For, if so, the feats of Houdini, The Wallendas, Petit, Karel Soucek, Evel Knievel and countless circus performers have been totally 'un-entertaining.'

Amazing!

As for 'real magic': I've seen illusions; I've yet to see REAL magic, but that's another issue.

Steve
Dr. Lao: "Do you know what wisdom is?"
Mike: "No."
Dr. Lao: "Wise answer."
JoeJoe
View Profile
Inner circle
Myrtle Beach
1860 Posts

Profile of JoeJoe
Steve ... you bring up a great point. Houdini would indeed spend hours locked inside a box with the audience at the edge of their seat. It's been said that today's audience wouldn't go for that, but they seem to be going for it when David Blaine does it ... hmmm ...
The Crowd Goes Wild - my free lecture series - Magic Joint - where professional talent meets the local artist!!!
One of the hottest new releases of this year - Amazing JoeJoe's Super Spinner with Penny Reel Technology!!!!
Dr_Stephen_Midnight
View Profile
Inner circle
SW Ohio, USA
1555 Posts

Profile of Dr_Stephen_Midnight
A tangent on that, regarding Houdini, and an added element of psychology:

I've never heard of Houdini being allegedly inside anything he was escaping from for more than an hour and twenty-some minutes (12-20 minutes being the norm for special challenges).
By the 1920s, he had abandoned this approach. The Roaring 20s constituted a world that moved at a faster pace, and Houdini knew it. The handcuffs were gone; the difficult challenges were gone. His vaudeville routine before creating his full-evening show was:

Straitjacket (fast and visual)
FAST escapes from trunks, pillories, coffins, or whatever he wanted to do that night.
The Water Torture Cell (2 minute escape)

The Shelton Pool stunt, however, was based on the element of EXTENDED TIME, like Blaine's stunts. The psychology is different. What makes it intriguing is not 'what is happening' in the active sense, but the 'implications' of what is happening.

The late Lester Lake (Marvelo) was aware of this psychology. In the 1930s he would be buried alive for 3-4 hours, entombed in a steel coffin under a 30' funeral pyre for 20-30 minutes, or submerged in a large boiling kettle for 20-30 minutes. People had to ask, "How could anyone SURVIVE such a thing?!?"

Granted, Blaine had air, and wasn't subjected to great heat (supposedly great cold, in the case of the ice), but the time was much longer; days beyond what the average physician says a person can survive without food.
There are many religious accounts and mystical legends of holy men meditating for "40 days and 40 nights" without food (or water) and having visions (whether divine in origin, or hallucinations brought on by physical distress), but I don't recall anyone actually doing such in our time and surviving (No, I don't believe Blaine's stunts were real exercises in endurance).
So, the extended time is essential to the effectiveness of the stunt (I know, "duh").
An interesting point about such stunts is that, unlike a regular show, you don't have to stand there and watch the entire routine. You can watch this type of stunt the way you watch a telethon or a marathon Guiness record attempt. You come up; gawk a little while; go off to the mall food court; come back to see 'how he's doing'; go home; have a good night's sleep; come back to see how he's doing; etc.

Since there are monitors (trustworthy or not), and the potential for SOMEBODY to be standing there watching at any moment during the duration of the stunt, you don't HAVE to be there all the time to see it progress.

Steve
Dr. Lao: "Do you know what wisdom is?"
Mike: "No."
Dr. Lao: "Wise answer."
ed rhodes
View Profile
Inner circle
Rhode Island
2573 Posts

Profile of ed rhodes
Quote:
On 2004-09-24 18:38, Dr_Stephen_Midnight wrote:
Well, first off, I wonder how far your denigration of "stupid stunts" goes; does it apply to all performers doing them...or just David Blaine (in which case it's not the stunt, but the man).


No, I think Copperfield's Fire stunt was stupid too! And I'm not all that certain about his "cutting myself in half" bit. It seems to me he's trying to catch up to Blaine instead of leading the pack in his own way.

Quote:
Harry Houdini spent an hour and a half in a sealed coffin in a swimming pool. The Amazing Randi did the same thing in the 1950s, staying down an extra hour. Years later, Randi broke a guinness record for being entombed in ice.

Do all extraordinary performances that do not involve productions, vanishes, transpositions, etc. constitute "stupid stunts?" If so, I'm afraid a large portion of the human populace are in opposition to your absolutist view.

For, if so, the feats of Houdini, The Wallendas, Petit, Karel Soucek, Evel Knievel and countless circus performers have been totally 'un-entertaining.'

Amazing!

As for 'real magic': I've seen illusions; I've yet to see REAL magic, but that's another issue.

Steve


By "real magic" I meant "real presdigitation" of course and not "magick" by any means.

Houdini did something original, if not very magic. It might have qualified as a "stupid stunt," but how often did he do it? As opposed to Blaine who's done four to date. Randi is known as a major Houdini buff so he'd have to try it too. Blaine also did the coffin thing and I didn't say anything about that. It just seems that all he has now is "stupid stunts."
"He was born with the gift of laughter and a sense that the world was mad." - Rafael Sabatini, Scaramouche
The Mac
View Profile
Inner circle
1952 Posts

Profile of The Mac
Just my two cents:

I got into magic because of David Copperfield when he performed Ring to shoe. I guess most kids got into magic because of David Blaines magic was with stuff they already had - a deck of cards.

I enjoyed his first and second special. I watched them many times and I also feel the sme irritation of "hey! I know how to do that too..how come I'm not on T.v?"

David blaine has done more good than bad (I can already see many of you seething) He sparked an interest in magic - better still close up magic that doesn't cost you an arm and a leg. I know a magician here in South Africa who used to do all these fancy illusions lke "doll houses" and all that. Now all he brings is a little bag with a few decks of cards and people wanna see what they saw on tv with Blaine. Also bear in mind people may think that this is how magic is today- that stage work is outta fashion.


Hey Blaine is dating hot womena and making money! the only people who are ****ed are other magicians..hmmm! think about that one

DAVID Copperfield RULES

MACGYVER
Dr_Stephen_Midnight
View Profile
Inner circle
SW Ohio, USA
1555 Posts

Profile of Dr_Stephen_Midnight
Well, Mandrake, you are clearly polarized and entrenched there. I'll just throw out the shroud and move on.

Steve

Oh, but before I move on, perhaps I should qualify the point I have been trying to make, since it doesn't seem to be registering.

My issue is not with whether or not you like or dislike stunts; if you don't, that's fine with me.

My issue is with the way you worded your opinion: "stupid stunts."

The term basically says two things:

1. You don't like the stunts. (perfectly fine; no problem there)

2. People who perform such stunts, and those who like such stunts, are STUPID. (an allegation that is both irrational and patently insulting to both the performers and those who enjoy what they do)

Now I'll move on.

Steve
Dr. Lao: "Do you know what wisdom is?"
Mike: "No."
Dr. Lao: "Wise answer."
ed rhodes
View Profile
Inner circle
Rhode Island
2573 Posts

Profile of ed rhodes
Quote:
On 2004-09-25 17:17, Dr_Stephen_Midnight wrote:
Oh, but before I move on, perhaps I should qualify the point I have been trying to make, since it doesn't seem to be registering.

My issue is not with whether or not you like or dislike stunts; if you don't, that's fine with me.

My issue is with the way you worded your opinion: "stupid stunts."

The term basically says two things:

1. You don't like the stunts. (perfectly fine; no problem there)

2. People who perform such stunts, and those who like such stunts, are STUPID. (an allegation that is both irrational and patently insulting to both the performers and those who enjoy what they do)

Now I'll move on.

Steve


I never said David was stupid. He's probably the most business-wise magician since Mark Wilson (and since Mark is my "first magician of note" that's saying a lot) I don't care for his delivery, but I've never put him down for that. I think the stunts are stupid. You want to "toss a shroud" over me for that, so be it. God forbid someone have opinions that don't mirror yours!
"He was born with the gift of laughter and a sense that the world was mad." - Rafael Sabatini, Scaramouche
Dr_Stephen_Midnight
View Profile
Inner circle
SW Ohio, USA
1555 Posts

Profile of Dr_Stephen_Midnight
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Nuff said.
Dr. Lao: "Do you know what wisdom is?"
Mike: "No."
Dr. Lao: "Wise answer."
chris mayhew
View Profile
Regular user
Toronto ON, Canada
179 Posts

Profile of chris mayhew
Quote:
On 2004-06-14 19:21, Midnight333 wrote:
I dislike David Blane for one simple fact> That he beat me to the punch. I wish I had thought to go to a magic store buy 200 dollars worth of easy to do magic and then market the hell out of it. He's not an artist, he's a business man. That's fine. don't give him all this credit for being a magician, he's not. He's some guy that found a niche then sold the f*** out of himself. By the way after all the levitations exposes that followed his premier, the balducci has become worthless. Oh by the way the other bad thing is that all you young kids should be inspired by the aformentions artists, not Blane. And to the gentleman ripping on those so called "pretty boy" magicians. Don't hate. Just because they get to be in close proximity to ultra hot girls and you are not doesn't mean one day that you cant. Don't hate the magic player, hate the magic game.



Is'nt that what we all did, go to some store and buy some tricks and learn them? So I guess your saying we're not true magicians either.
masterofdeception
View Profile
New user
Canada
11 Posts

Profile of masterofdeception
In my opinion, most magicians who say David Blaine isn't a skilled man, or "he doesn't deserve the fame", I think its all a part of professional jelousy... there is no doubt, there are magicians who are way better than him, and no doubt that rarely any of the tricks he does is invented by him, at the end of the day, wat matters is that who's a fan favourite... I've met a lot of non-social REALLY skilled magicians, who just cant communicate wat they're trying to do... on the other hand, we have david blaine, who, with his little bit of skill got so popular world wide... I think its all about the image infront of lay people, instead of the image infront of other magicians...

just my 2 cents

master of deception
icentertainment
View Profile
Inner circle
1429 Posts

Profile of icentertainment
Forget about marketing for 1 minute

I think David Blaine - as a performer

SUCKS.

Over hear in Australia the David Blaine specials went straight to Fox TV ( that's pay to view tv) and late at night. I do not think David Blaine has had a positive impact on magic in Australia because of the simple reason---Everyone must think magicians are boring people. We really gotta get magic out of the streets if we want to get the big bucks.
If you are marketing to the corporate events- honestly who is going to spend big bucks on a guy in black clothes with zero personality. Answer nobody.
It works on TV but most of us magicians don't work on tv. so our audience -our market is different.

Their is only 1 magician I have seen who is worse
Dan Harlan on the L&L Impromptu magic Tapes.


Oh and for all those Blaine Clones---GET A LIFE
he is a horrible magician

I am going to be the next David Welzman not David Blaine

(who is David Welzman you ask? it's me I don't copy style or lack of it I'm going to be great!!!!!!)
DamienT98
View Profile
Regular user
London UK now live in Austin Tx
180 Posts

Profile of DamienT98
All this hatred is a jelousy issue.

I think Blane is a great magician and showman and he deserves to be where he is today.
icentertainment
View Profile
Inner circle
1429 Posts

Profile of icentertainment
OOps I'm sorry all

I realise that perhaps there a lots of amatures out there who don't do a lot of gigs for those people yeah Blain can do better tricks than you

But that does not make him a good magician
and to say he's a showman.

Let's get real for 1 moment- In the REAL World Yes he has good marketing skills as an entertainer a performer to people with interlect - No I'm sorry he doesn't cut it.
Imagine Blaine working some of the gigs we pros do?
I'm not talking the local school or Kids retaurants but full on Corporate Shows, Blain doing a Roving style around CEO's and GM's yeah right, I simply cannot imagine it.
Now Bill Malone- Yes I can imagine doing the show.

Lets see David Blaine Live- anyone can do multiple takes on TV and control the angles with tv viewing but real entertainers do it every day live.

Oh and his stunts are as boring as he.

David Welzman
a Real performer
CardShark
View Profile
New user
1 Post

Profile of CardShark
Quote:
"Let's get real for 1 moment- In the REAL World Yes he has good marketing skills as an entertainer a performer to people with interlect - No I'm sorry he doesn't cut it.
Imagine Blaine working some of the gigs we pros do?
I'm not talking the local school or Kids retaurants but full on Corporate Shows, Blain doing a Roving style around CEO's and GM's yeah right, I simply cannot imagine it.
Now Bill Malone- Yes I can imagine doing the show."


Hrmm I do believe I should correct you here, for the purpose of correct information. Blaine does do parties, many of them and for extremly rich clientele. He isn't exactly idle in between television specials. And the going blaine rate, at which he's consistantly payed? In the tens of thousands + .

If he was indeed incompetent and unskilled and didn't appeal to people, then why would they keep giving him business?

Blaine only got payed 100,000 for the box special, it wasen't about the money, or how he did it etc, perhaps it was a statement he felt he had to express. Anyway we don't disscuss people such as hrmm I dunno Derren Brown like this, and why should we? We don't try to pull people down that don't really affect us in any way. End of story, he has an effect that compells us to respond strongly in some way.

Ending off I would have to agree with everyone who mentioned the spectator response is the premiere reason that magic tricks exist. Enough with the pretensious comments.
icentertainment
View Profile
Inner circle
1429 Posts

Profile of icentertainment
David Blaine went straight to Fox TV,(thats pay TV)
WOW

Sorry in Australia we prefer entertainment on TV as apposed to whatever David Blaine is. Most people in Australia think he's boring.

You say he's good, how hard honestly is it to perform magic on TV over and over to get the right reaction.

And these large corporatings that hire him are hiring his celebrity status not his ability, I be he doesn't get re booked.

David Welzman
REAL ENTERTAINER
varg
View Profile
New user
99 Posts

Profile of varg
Blaine did a great job in Sweden marketing the street magic
style even if he didn´t show up with something new in
magic.
As a working pro in the various theme frome close-up,
stand-up and big illusions he really made it easy for me to sell my
closeup act.
Thanks Blaine
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Street Magic » » The fundamental problem Magicians have with David Blaine (12 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2017 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.29 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL