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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Up in smoke! » » A matter of great concern for all of us (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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ed rhodes
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Inner circle
Rhode Island
2573 Posts

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Quote:
On 2005-09-13 03:03, Bill Palmer wrote:
I just got a PM from a fellow who disagrees with me completely. I won't post his name, because he hasn't posted anything to the list. But he mentions that fire and flash translates into cash. Maybe so. But the fellows in Vegas who use pyro have licensed technicians to cover the applications. The fire rules in Vegas are also fairly strict.

He quoted Siegfried and Roy using fire. I guess he hadn't heard about the accident.

The most telling line of his PM to me was this:
Quote:
In my opinion we have free will decide to use fire and learn to use it right. Forum shmorum what does it matter if idots cause fires ?


Yes, we do have free will. But we also have laws. And if you break the law, you will pay a fine or do some time. If you destroy your own property or injure yourself when you illegally use fire, then you have a different situation. You won't be able to collect on your insurance, for one thing. Think about this, the next time you "light up."

BTW, I learned this the hard way.


"What does it matter if idots (sic) cause fires?" Ask my wife, she works at RI Hospital and they're still getting patients from the Station night club fire coming by for therapy! (I quoted your entire message so no one might jump to the conclusion that the "idots" quote was actually _from_ you!

My wife can also comment on the flash paper comments on this thread. She was doing a Shakespere play, can't remember the title, but the company had made _major_ changes, the director changed Willie's "priest" to a "voo doo priestess!" They decided it would be cool if she could shoot flash paper, so she borrowed my shooter. Dern fool kept it in a pouch she wore along with the entire stock of flash paper!!! Yep, the shooter went off during a production and caught the paper. I don't know why but all that happened was that the bag filled with smoke and the flash paper had to be replaced. God looks out for drunks and fools and my wife don't drink.
"He was born with the gift of laughter and a sense that the world was mad." - Rafael Sabatini, Scaramouche
Cyberqat
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You can tell I work on the net from my
2210 Posts

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Quote:
On 2005-09-13 03:03, Bill Palmer wrote:
I just got a PM from a fellow who disagrees with me completely.

.. snip ..

The most telling line of his PM to me was this:
Quote:
In my opinion we have free will decide to use fire and learn to use it right. Forum shmorum what does it matter if idots cause fires ?




Because fires kill more then the idiots who cause them.

I lived for 15 years in California where forest fires started by idiots regularly kill people, destroy their homes and everything in them, and generally wreck lives.


There are two kinds of fire practitioners. Those who know enough to always be afraid of the genii they are letting out of the bottle, and those destined to be statistics. Your PMer unfortunately sounds like the latter. I just hope s/he doesn't take anyone else with him/her when they meet their destiny. (I also wonder at his/her age because s/he sure doesn't sound like s/he has the emotional maturity yet to handle such potential dangers. )

Fire is a wonderful;, magical thing. Its power entrances people. But its power can also kill people. Never forget that.
It is always darkest just before you are eaten by a grue.
Cyberqat
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Quote:
On 2008-03-15 10:54, ed rhodes wrote:
[They decided it would be cool if she could shoot flash paper, so she borrowed my shooter. Dern fool kept it in a pouch she wore along with the entire stock of flash paper!!! Yep, the shooter went off during a production and caught the paper. I don't know why but all that happened was that the bag filled with smoke and the flash paper had to be replaced. God looks out for drunks and fools and my wife don't drink.


When I was in highschool I had a palmable electric shooter. (Yeah I know, at that age its questionable, I admit.) I'd carry it loaded in my pocket sometimes. One day I thoughtlessly put it in my pocket with my keys and forgot about it. A few hours later one of the keys bridge the contents on the switch and it went off in my pocket. I was lucky and got away with a hole in my pocket and a blister on my leg.

I am now 45 and ALL my combustible props and chemicals live in this when I'm not actively performing:

http://www.officemax.com/omax/catalog/pr......_Id=null
It is always darkest just before you are eaten by a grue.
hocuspocusjay23
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These are great posts. Even the smallest of fires can get out of hand quick. Even a dove pan these days can teach smaller children that playing with fire is ok. Children copy what they see, and I have taken fire out of my act.
hocuspocusjay23
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These are great posts. Even the smallest of fires can get out of hand quick. Even a dove pan these days can teach smaller children that playing with fire is ok. Children copy what they see, and I have taken fire out of my act.
Donnie Buckley
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V.I.P.
Cleveland, Ohio
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Flash cotton can ignite in a hot car. A couple of years ago I had a fire break out in a case of practice equipment I was travelling with. Fortunately the case was a very heavy wooden tool chest and the fire was contained in a trap that is built in the lid. The fire was smothered by the case, but the silks, thread reels and manipulating b balls were ruined.
All it took was a hot summer day in a car.
Learn the form, but seek the formless. Learn it all, then forget it all. Learn the way, then find your own way. Rings-N-Things
tabman
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USA
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When I was working for Kozak I decided to get a Pyro license
from the ATF because we were using so much fire.

In Pittsburgh, the fire dept forced us to hire two firemen to be
on site, one on each side of the stage dressed in boots, jacket
and cover. That's when Koz dropped the fire and went to confetti.
It amounted to extortion IMO.

-=tabman
...Your professional woodworking and "tender" loving care in the products you make, make the wait worthwhile. Thanks for all you do...

http://Sefalaljia.com
meekomagic
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It may be a good idea to omit some of the fire effects in your act due to the growing amount venues that don't allow fire..........
Stucky
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I'm Batman!
1312 Posts

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Quote:
On 2006-12-12 20:16, SteveTheMagician wrote:
all from a small flame handeled incorrectly.


It was more than a small flame. It was the idiots who put the spark shooters next to the egg shell foam that the club thought would be a good idea to use as sound proofing.

That whole incident could have been avoided in many ways, not just by the band but the club as well.

Quote:
On 2007-07-24 15:42, aquamage wrote:Sooner or later SOMETHING will go wrong.


The longer you do something stupid, the greater chance something stupid will happen to you.
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jazzy snazzy
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run off by a mob of Villagers wielding
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Folks still get very emotional here about that event.
Seems like everybody knows somebody who was affected. My next door neighbor lost his girlfriend. It was a perfect storm of arrogance, incompetance stupidity and greed.

Live performances in small clubs really took a hit because of it. Now, with the bad economy, most bands here are working for the door. At least they are no longer allowed to set up in front of the fire exit.

As performers, we must BE AWARE of the surroundings and working conditions at all times. If you see a potential safety issue, take steps to avoid it. It won't kill your act. We are the hired pros. The audience is there to party. Club owners don't care.

Nobody wants something like the Station fire on their resume.
"The secret of life is to look good from a distance."
-Charles Schulz
jazzy snazzy
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run off by a mob of Villagers wielding
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"The secret of life is to look good from a distance."
-Charles Schulz
George Ainscough
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Bill is right, I know how to make flash paper and powder, but I never have, for a good reason. I do make some stuff, like flash paper devices, which can mostly be made without problem (unless you are stupid and seal the tube at both ends)

Serious incidents I know about

1. titanium tetrachloride smoke bombs, smoke from this is VERY pure hydrochloric acid mist, went to hospital with acid burns all over

2. Homemade flash pot, flash pot broke when was used with conncussion powder, shrapnel, BIG TIME

3. nitrogen triodide, exploded in hand under own weight (it is very sensitive) OUCH

4. Guy who makes Black Powder for a living had no saltpeter, so used Pottasium Chlorate, spontaneous combustion

5. Guy made Acetone Peroxide (high explosive, used to be used in detonators but too unstable) JUST FOR A CHANGE and blew his fingertip off. (This guy is now in prison)

These people are all people who I know of forums or friends on forums have told me about, they are all fairly clever but had a moment of sheer stupidity.
Pat Perry
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Sometimes it needs just a small incident to make you think: In a Close Up performance I lit a little piece of pyro cotton and throwed it into the air. Unfortunately my hands were wet and the cotton ball didn't burn so fast. So it landed on the lab of a spectator. I was lucky, beside the fear and unplesend situation nobody was harmed.But for me it was a healing shock. Ever since I think twice about playing around with fire.
Der Magier
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If anyone doesn't belive it, just google pyrotechnic accidents. Quite a few experts (experts mind you!) die from this stuff every year. If they can, odds are you WILL.
NaathanPhan
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One day, I shall have more than
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Thank you, Bill. It definitely needed to be said--er--posted.
Cheers,

Naathan Phan: Magic Asian Man

www.magicasianman.com
DoctorCognos
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When I first started with magic, I used fire all of the time, everywhere..Then the reality of struck me. Not becuase of a fire I started, but because of reports of things like the nightclub fire and others that just showed me how dangerous fire can be. My avatar on here as BroDavid, used to show me with two fickle fires.

So for a lot of stuff inside, rather than flash or a shooter, I use Fism Flash, and other than flash card for my business card, I only use fire outside, preverably at night so I can get better effect with less fire. I often use two of Jim Pace's flame throwers, one on each arm. A shooter or two, and my trusty, and safe Fism Flash that becomes even more effective in teh dark of night. And I always have someone with me, who knows my act, and knows that I am on fire, or anyone else, that isn't part of the act, he holds a fire extinguisher ready. What I used to try to do with fire, I now try to do with light. Fsim Flash, Dlights, and Meteor at night are awsome, effective, electronic and safe.

Maybe it is maturing in the arts, or just common sense, but between the rules, and the obvious safety issues, fire inside is not really a very good idea any more. And if you absolutely need fire to entertain, turn in your magicians card, and pick up a selfish daredevil card, beacause that is what you have become.

Obviously this is just my opinion, and I realize that not everyone agrees. But so be it. Just don't be stupid with it.

The Doctor
The Doctor Knows.....
Midnight333
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All good thoughts. I've added fire eating and swinging fire poi to my outdoor shows. I get burned a bit almost every time. IF this happens to you (God forbid) I suggest for your consideration the following:
Even after my disclaimer to the children and the ADULTS. If (read "when") I get burned, I finish the routine (providing I'm not too seriously hurt but you may well know minor burns are to be expected) I make a point to show everyone, especially the kids, my fresh burn. I tell them, "You see I'm a professional and even I get hurt. Do not play with fire, kids. It's not IF you get burned, it's WHEN you get burned and it does hurt."

Just my way of hammering a safety message and turning an unfortunate instance into a positive event.

For your consideration.
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