Hey guys,

I've recently spotted a move I'd like to use in a routine. It's in the clip of Copperfield's 'Grandpa's Aces', where he produces the Aces from the middle (apparently) of the deck. The cards appear to pop out of the deck at 90 degree angles, before being placed on the table. I hope that's a decent enough explanation. Can anyone tell me the name of said move and perhaps a source where I can learn it?

Thanks guys!

-- Topher

Haven't seen Copperfield's routine but sounds like the Forton "Pop Out" move... You can learn it in Frank Simon's "Versatile Card Magic".

S.Segal

If you are referring to Piet Forton's pop-out move, its first appearance in print was in an early issue of The Gen, within a Noel Stanton trick. It was first published by Piet himself in July 1964 when it ran in the same magazine (Vol. 20, No. 3). It later appeared in Mr. Forton's 1967 lecture notes. In March 1975, it appeared in Epilogue (No. 23, p. 7). Later still, in 1983, it appeared in Frank Simon's Versatile Card Magic (pp. 76-77).

You can find it in the Art of Card Manipulation vol. 1 by Jeff McBride.

I don't think you should learn it from The Art of Card Manipulation with Jeff McBride. I recently saw Piet Forton lecture and though he is now senile, he is still very good at the pop out move. He taught it in the lecture and tips of why people are doing the move wrong. The reason they are doing it wrong is the way that McBride does it. He does a jerking action with his wrist and that's now how it is meant to be done or look.

David, since you've had a enviable experience of learning from the master himself, could you share Forton's tips on how to best do the pop-out move? I, too, tried to learn it from Jeff McBride and have never mastered it very well. It's more like a Fling-Out Move or Flop-Out Move the way I ungracefully do it.

:bikes:

I actually wouldn't call him a master, more of an old man attempting to do tricks, but that's a different story for a different time (it's way too long to explain here).

Well. He says to have your break as you normally would. Now the action of the right hand isn't jerking outward. The hand DOES jerk forward sleightly, but barely, just enough to get the card out. Now, in order to make it come out farther, while you are jerking the wrist sleightly, your right hand sort of creates air under the card but by raising the right hand sleightly and coming down as the wrist jerks forward.

It's really hard to explain without showing but the main thing is the card doesn't come out by the wrist jerking forward, it comes out by the right hand coming downward towards the table.

I think these "tips" are also talked about in the "Versatile Card Magic" Book and DVD recently done by Earl Nelson....

I recently saw him lecture also (David, what did you think of his trick with those magnets? lol) and ever since seeing him do it, I have finally been able to do it also. It's a beautiful move. I have to agree with everything David said above.

I met Piet briefly at Blackpool this year, and I certainly would not have described him as 'senile'.

Old, maybe.

Take care, Ian

Thanks, David. I'll try it as you suggest. It's a great looking move when done well.

:bikes:

It used to be that people showed respect to those who came before them. Those days are gone, gone, gone...

I beleive that Piet was good back in the day. He obviously was if he won FISM a couple of times. But I guess you would have to see him now to understand what I am saying.

They would have to see him David. I have great respect for him. You just have to see him lecture to understand.

We know what your saying and thinking , nothing we can do about that I guess .... maybe when ur old someone will kick you in the ball's...

Even if David Ranalli was correct in his descriptions of Piet Forton, and he is not, it is disgraceful of him to write thus and I suggest the Magic Café would be a better place without the despicable postings of Mr Ranalli.

I am correct and obviously people would agree with me if they saw him. Anyone at the Conclave this year would. He won FISM a few times, obviously he had to have been good at one time or another. I admit my post may have been insulting, but unless you've seen him perform then I don't think you should be defending something you don't know anything about.

I was with Piet last December, he was handling cards well as a medical problem he had with his hands had improved. Even if Mr Ranalli considers himself so knowledgeable on the matter it does not excuse the objectionable and uncalled-for language. Piet Forton dveloped a great move, enough.

I think that what it boils down to is Ranalli's incorrect and unwise use of the word "senile" which has connotations further than age. Maybe he will confirm?

Piet handles cards very well and still does his pop out move great. I myself us it all the time and I was able to improve it from the tips he gave. I think you have misunderstood what I have been saying (or I said it wrong or not enough). The problem I found with him lies in his performance. In the middle of the act he turns around to reverse cards very obviously, throws in random things, messes up over and over again with the same thing, and drops things in the lecture and performance, etc. Perhaps as a person he is not senile, I admit I may have gone to far on that. But when it comes to performing I think the performance has decreased since his FISM days. I think magicians as well as bands need to know when to stop or decrease performing. I think the band KISS (which I'm a huge fan of) should have quit performing years ago due to a decrease in the quality of their shows. My view is the same to Piet. He may be a great guy but his shows were not put together well and he couldn't do half the things he was lecturing about. I talked to him in April and he was nice, but watching him perform was unbearable.

I think it's very rare to see a performer of any kind (be it clowns, magicians, musicians, dancers, comedians) who still perform as good as they used to. I think that because we are magicians we don't concider ourselves as the type of performers who could end up not being good with age. Our views seem to be the other way around, that with age comes experience and ability. But we all get old and I think we need to understand that rather than avoid talking about it. I too will get old as will everyone else, and with that could go my talent. I don't beleive that magic is a way to avoid retirement. But retiring doesn't mean you have to quit something completely.

I suppose, since you're willing to state your opinion in front of thousands of magicians, that you're also willing to say all this to Mr. Forton's face. Indeed, you may already have, since the Internet is pretty open to just about anyone these days.

Okay... then... you were at his lecture... why didn't you? Why bring it onto the Internet instead? That's the disrespectful part I was talking about...