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Lothar
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I'm not sure what category on the Magic Café this should go in. I am in this section the most, so I'll post it here.
I have an illusionist friend who puts having a "Doctorate of Magic" in his bio on his website. Does anyone know what organization gives these? I've heard it's like the "Academy Award" for magicians.
Also, does anyone know of the "International Magicians Society"? (Not SAM or IBM) It's billed as the world's largest magician organization.

Let me know if y'all know any info .

Wes
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Starrpower
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The I.M.S., in my opinion, isn't really a magic society as much as a marketing ploy. It was created by Tony Hassini to sell video tapes. If you buy a video from him, you're automatically a member. I've been a "member" for probably 15 years ... at one time he sent a newsletter, but after I got about three of them, that stopped.
magictim
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IMS, International Magic Society, It is a video course by Tony Hassini and Gary Darwin I believe. I also have a friend with a "doctorate." It takes money to get everything and to take the test.
Starrpower
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A slight correction to Tim's post: it is *not* a course. It is simply a series of videos, much like the Greater Magic Videos that Steven's put out. Actually, some of them are quite good, but to call the I.M.S. a magic organization is akin to calling someone who goes to Jiffy Lube a member of an automotive club.
magictim
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Oh, I was under the impression it was a course. I had read or heard somewhere you had to buy them in sequencial order.
You are right though, some of the videos are very good. I have seen some at my friends shop.
Donald Dunphy
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I haven't heard of a Doctorate of Magic. That might be a marketing ploy, I'm not sure. You could simply ask your friend.

I know that some people can get certain titles and certificates, by participating in certain magic marketing workshops.

For example, I am a graduate of the Professional Performer's Workshop from back in 1998 and 1999. Somewhere I have an official certificate with my official title, but I can't recall my title.

I know some who use their new magic "titles", that they have "earned", to great benefit in their promotion.

Hehehe! Smile

- Donald.

P.S. On the Dean's List, they call me a Professor, an honorary title. Smile
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
Starrpower
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I can give you the Doctorate. My school's motto is "Starrrpower -- We give you the power to be a STAR!"

Send me $200 and the certificate is on it's way.

Seriously, a title's only as good as the organization that distributes it. As for magic, who's to say what's good? It's entertainment; you'll get as many opinions as there are people. Would David Blaine be deserving? Some say absolutely, others think he sucks and uses mostly camera tricks. Even those awards given by "legititmate" organizations are often political and certainly based on opinions.

Bottom line: In the entertainment biz, titles mean nothing other than how they are perceived by others and the ability to use them in advertising.
magicjackct
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I belong to the I.M.S. also. To recieve your doctorate you have to take a written test that is about 10 pages. You also have to send I believe $25 in with the test. I was never looking for a doctorate to give myself a sense of worth so to me it wasn't worth the money.
I have 110 courses in their dvd's. And must admit it is the majority of my magic knowledge. There are over at least 30 fifferent instructors, from Rocco to Criss Angel to Tony Hassini.

Jack
christopher carter
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Quote:
On 2004-07-07 11:23, The Gr8 DonaldD wrote:
I know some who use their new magic "titles", that they have "earned", to great benefit in their promotion.

Hehehe! Smile

- Donald.

P.S. On the Dean's List, they call me a Professor, an honorary title. Smile


I can't tell whether you're serious or joking about using magic "titles" to great benefit in promotion. If you're serious, could you describe some examples. I would think they would have to be used very judiciously most of the time.

A couple agents I know make it a practice to throw out magicians promo packets if they include claims of being "award winning" from magical organizations. I asked one about it and he said it showed the magician wasn't really working, since he had time to go to magic conventions. I have no idea whether this practice is wide-spread, and obviously a number of magicians (Lance Burton, for example) have used contest wins to further their career. Still, if trumpeted as a serious credential, a "doctorate of magic" seems like it has the potential of doing more harm than good for the performer. But a real doctorate, in theater maybe, could be used to great advantage in a number of markets, I would think.

--Chris
AragorntheMagician
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In this, our happy obsession, it's all marketing hype. Houdini himself said, (and I probably quote badly) "It has been my fortune to play the part of a Great Magician." George Burns stated that there are only 6 acts. The only difference is the social strata of the clients. I have leaned from books, videos, magazines, fellow devotees. From the Great, not so great & the unsung Great. The measure of sucess for any entertainment profession is...."DO YOU SUPPORT YOURSELF & YOURS SUCESSFULLY WITH IT!!"
In my kids shows I ask them about their school. I than say that even I am always in school and that right now I am working on my "Doctorate of ............. Balloonalligy"....lol

Yours in Mirth,
Aragorn TM
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aka: I used to be BOB (It's Cellini's fault)
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Donald Dunphy
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Christopher -

I am talking about using titles that people have been given. For example, there are some "Certified Magic Professionals" who use the title CMP because they have participated in certain training weekend during a certain year. The trainer gave them all certificates in the end, and gave them each the title of CMP. Some are using this on their marketing materials. Use of their CMP title gets them advantage when marketing in certain speaking situations, and their training from this event has helped to make them better speakers. (I am not a CMP).

As I said, I have my PPW (Professional Performer's Workshop) training, and don't recall my title, because I don't use it. But it is on the certificate somewhere. This was something different from the CMP, and different from IMS's Doctorate of Magic.

Of course, anything a person uses should be legit (was Dai Vernon actually a Professor? Smile ) And customers will ask you what it means, and how you got the title, so be ready to give an honest answer. No deception.

Same for awards. You may have to show evidence that you won (title of awards and years and where). Again, no deception.

However, as you said, awards sometimes have very little meaning to customers and agents. You have to show them why that accomplishment will be of benefit to them. As you said, some agents feel that award accomplishments mean that the person has a great magic audience act, but not a great real-world audience act. That is why the onus is on the magician to show how this is important to anyone besides themselves or other magicians.

Shawn Farquhar makes great advantage of his award accomplishments, and he has a great real-world act. He is a rare blend of the two ideas. If you know him, ask him how he does it. (I am not an award winner, I just worship the ground that Shawn walks on! Smile )

In another direction from awards and back to other training, I have taken Dale Carnegie Training, and also Dale Carnegie Sales Advantage Training (no title other than Graduate). I would use that in my marketing when relevant to the customer. More often, I use my training to build my relationship with the customer, without them even knowing about my Graduate status or training.

Did this answer your query?

- Donald.
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
Cheshire Cat
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How about member of "The Supreme Magic Club" - now that sounded impressive didn't it? Actually, many years ago when Supreme Magic (Edwin Hooper) was probably one of the most prolific manufacturers of children's routines in the world, if you just subscribed to a magazine off them you became 'Supreme'.
I remember one guy even putting it in his Yellow Pages ads!

Cast your minds to "The Wizard of Oz". What does the cowardly lion receive that makes him confident and righteous? A worthless piece of paper !!
dsilverfield
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While we are at titles, Thought I would share this with you.
I went for an Illusion show in India. The show was in a huge tent and there was a signage which said "The fastest Magician on earth". I don't want to give his name but below the title was this:
Last year speed 622.5
This year speed 1318.
That was a description of his speed levels and I have no clue what instrument or test is used to measure these speed levels.
BTW mine is over a 1000000. lol
Jim Snack
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Donald wrote: "For example, there are some "Certified Magic Professionals" who use the title CMP because they have participated in certain training weekend during a certain year. The trainer gave them all certificates in the end, and gave them each the title of CMP. Some are using this on their marketing materials. Use of their CMP title gets them advantage when marketing in certain speaking situations, and their training from this event has helped to make them better speakers."
-------------------------------------------------------

In the speaking industry the term "CMP" refers to a "Certified Meeting Professional," bestowed by MPI (Meeting Professionals International).

Any magician who uses CMP to refer to Certified Magic Professional should make that clear in their promotional materials. Anything less would be misleading and a discredit to our business.

A certification is only as good as the organization that bestows it. Savvy meeting planners know the differences and are not impressed by over-hyping in promotional materials.
Jim Snack

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christopher carter
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Donald,

The CMP example you use is very funny. A tad deceptive, though, if used to gain credibility in the speaking world. I would think that meeting planners who are real CMPs might be a little ticked. If it works, great! But people who use it in that context shouldn't be too surprised if it backfires.

As you point out, Shawn Farquar and others have used contest wins to advantage. I think this works better with national or international contests than it does with local club contests. Plus, of course, Farquar and Lance Burton have great acts, and it does eventually all come down to that.

I'm just thinking out loud here, but it seems that you can't open the yellow pages without seeing that nearly every magician is "award-winning." And I'm wondering if those awards really mean anything to the potential buyers in most cases. I suspect that sometimes they may make the magician look more amateurish and not less. It seems to me effort would be better spent on emphasizing the benefits of the show, the happy audiences it will produce, how good the buyer will look if she hires the magician, etc. Anyhow, these are just thoughts.

--Chris
Donald Dunphy
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I didn't create CMP, I just passed along a story. Don't kill the messenger, please! Smile

I didn't even know it might be mis-interpreted until Jim gave us that clarifying thought.

I assume magician's use the terms "award-winning" (if it's the truth) to imply that they are good quality, because they won a competition. Sometimes, prospects don't know any better, and if they think a performer is better because he is an award winner, they may hire him based on that. Sometimes, customers make decisions that aren't informed decisions or well-thought-out decisions.

- Donald.
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
christopher carter
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Quote:
On 2004-07-08 10:03, The Gr8 DonaldD wrote:
I didn't create CMP, I just passed along a story. Don't kill the messenger, please! Smile



Oops! Sorry, didn't mean to suggest you had created it. Actually, I thought it was kind of funny and cheeky.

--Chris
Paddy
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I am one of those with the "coveted CMP" issued by Dave Dee. Like Donald, I had no idea that it could be misinterpeted and did, until Jim's post, use it when trying to impress a client. It is now off all my form letters.

Thanks Jim for informing me of a REAL "CMP" instead of the Certified Magic Professional that Dave Dee gave out.

Peter
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MagicalPirate
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Using the CMP is not misleading as the right to use such was issued to magicians at a magic event. I don't see any reason to discontinue using the designation as it does not mean Certified Meeting Professional to those that attended Dave Dee's Super Conference 2002. If anyone asks, you truthfully state Certified Magic Professional and give whatever meaning to it that you gave it for your own marketing purposes. It was simply a device to use to set yourself apart in your marketing from others. For my part, I intend to continue using the designation as it was a title conferred upon me. I'm also a CMSA meaning Certified Medicine Show Artist conferred on me by the North American Medicine Show Artists Association or NAMSAA of course that is entirely another story. It is just marketing and I use it as such.

Martin Blakley, CMP, CMSA Smile
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christopher carter
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Quote:
On 2004-07-11 01:40, MagicalPirate wrote:
Using the CMP is not misleading as the right to use such was issued to magicians at a magic event.


Doesn't it depend a little on the context in which you use it? If you are looking for work in the meeting industry and will be rubbing shoulders with meeting planners and speakers bureaus, there is little doubt that the title CMP will be interpreted differently by your buyers. In that industry a CMP is a very significant title and not bestowed lightly. What difference would it make what the title means to you, since you would know automatically what it means to them? In that context, why would you wait for somebody to ask what your letters mean unless you were trying to convey a false impression?

In the Donald's post which brings up the CMP, he mentions that some use it to give them an andvantage in the speaking industry. Now why do you suppose that CMP might give one an advantage in that industry? I can assure you that it's not because the buyer is impressed that you are a Certified Magic Professional. It is only because they think your letters mean something different.

Just as important as whether its usage is deceptive is whether it would be perceived as such. If I were running a speakers bureau and I were looking for a hypnotist, I might see your CMP and think, "fabulous, this person is also a professional meeting planner. He'll really know the ins and outs of corporate work." But when I found what it means to you, I might come to the conclusion that you were deliberately withholding the truth in order to create a false impression. Or I might conclude that you don't know very much about corporate entertainment, and therefore lack the experience I need. Is either situation really beneficial to your reputation? It's your call.

--Chris

This is a link to MPI's page on becoming a CMP: http://www.mpiweb.org/education/cmp/

I've posted it just to give folks an idea of how difficult it is to earn the designation, and just what it means in the meeting industry.

--Chris
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