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pwagorn New user 43 Posts |
Everyone knows that trick with the 21 cards & 3 piles, the mathematical one? Well it uses that premise.
The effect is this: Spectator takes any 21 cards out of the deck, thinks of one of the cards & gives all them face down to the magician. Magician makes 3 piles, all face down. One by one, fans them to the spectator - "Is your card in this pile?". after all 3 piles are shown, puts the piles together & repeats the process 2 more times. Now, normally, when you did this trick when you were 8 yrs old, you'd count down a certain number of cards & voila. But, in this case you just name the card without counting. Cards were face-down all the time, spectator can watch you CLOSELY to see if you tilt the cards towards you, etc. Infact, I usually encourage people to pay special attention to me. Now my question is; - Did I make this effect up, or does everyone here already know it? If it's not new, who invented the trick? If you understand the principle, are there any other effects that use the same technique? paul |
RandyWakeman V.I.P. Plainfield, ILLINOIS 1617 Posts |
No, it is not new at all.
It is fair to say there are far better methods. See Hull in "Greater Magic," Vernon's "Out of Sight Out of Mind." For better "21 card trick" procedures, see "Marlo Without Tears." Marlo also has a streamlined version in "The Cardician," I believe. |
pwagorn New user 43 Posts |
Hi Randy - can you pm me the method you think I use?
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Paul Inner circle A good lecturer at your service! 4409 Posts |
I've come across the variant where the card is just named also, but then I do own Marlo Without Tears. I think Al Smith has also done work on it, I vaguely remember something in his Abacus magazine.
Your version could be different, but the question was about the "effect" of naming the card without the count. There are variations on the mathematical principle in Stanyon's Magic, and more recently by Paul Flory in my book Mindful Mentalism and again in Mindful Mentalism 2. Yet another version of course (which I just thought of) would be to use marked cards. But perhaps not worth going there, lol. Paul. |
pwagorn New user 43 Posts |
No, no marked cards.
No mathematical tricks (you never look at the cards, and you can shuffle before naming the card). No special cards (you can use a borrowed deck). No "hardware". Sorry, when I said "no mathematical tricks" I meant that you don't count out the cards at the end. Ie, it's not self -working. Obviously there is a mathematical element to it. |
TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts |
Just the fact that your fanning piles of cards 9 times would indicate to me that i would not want to do the effect and the same reason people joke about uncle harry doing the 21 card trick.
If you've come up with a new method, that in itself IS a good thing but the effect just doesn't seem very magical. To me, mathematical methods usually generate boring effects. (Note that I said, TO ME!). Perhaps, instead, use the principal you've discovered (if you like it) for a different, effect where it would be stronger. You're wasting it on this trick. For this trick where they select any 21 cards, you're probably better off using a different method... crimp, force, stack, whatever, so you don't have to fan, fan, fan, fan, fan, fan, fan, fan, fan. The effect might seem more magical to you because the deck is shuffled but it will not to your spectators. If you want to see a wonderful method for this sort of trick, Danny Archer has one. It's fantastic. It blew me away. It's a very good effect for larger audiences. I point this out because sometimes you have a larger audience and "The Twins" just won't cut it. my .02 frank
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
Euan Inner circle 1041 Posts |
Andrew Winhurst does basically what you've just described except that he doesn't touch the cards at all (no multiple fanning ect). The spectator deals three piles picks a card from one of them then the spectator shuffles the deck and Andrew names the card. Nice.
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cardguy Inner circle Queens, New York 1171 Posts |
I like "Out of Sight, Out of Mind" also.
There are also some similar effects by Jennings that can be found in Jennings '67 and Classic Magic of L.J.
Frank G. a.k.a. Cardguy
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pwagorn New user 43 Posts |
The reason I like the trick, is because it *IS* just like the uncle harry trick - everyone knows the trick, and they all know how it works - everyone expects me to count the cards at the end & flip over the 11th card (or whatever), but I never do.
I actually had someone run out to the mailbox (about a 1/4 mile) in the snow NAKED and back again on a losing bet because he was SO SURE that I couldn't possibly know what his card was...I have the picture to prove it too ! The fanning actually isn't too bad when done quickly... Now what really intrigues me is the Andrew Winhurst thing where he never touches the cards - is this without any gimmicks or marked cards? I see some people saying that this is not a new trick - can you email or PM me & let me know how you think I do it, so I can see if it's the same (you don't have to give it away, perhaps hint at it.) |
TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts |
pwagorn,
A Ha! well, you've come up with THE reason to do that trick. If I knew someone liked to perform the 21 card trick then I would want to do your version. In fact, I picture doing it to someone that just showed me the 21 card trick first. YAAAWWWNNNNN!!!! You could get them to watch you to see if you do it right (Like you're learning). Yeah, right... then bet them at the end and make them run around naked! I like it. Hey, I think I'll try this out on my wife tonight.!!!!
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
Paul Inner circle A good lecturer at your service! 4409 Posts |
re;
In fact, I picture doing it to someone that just showed me the 21 card trick first. I agree, to me this is the ONLY reason for familiarising yourself with a method like this, just for the people that insist on showing YOU the 21 card trick. It is certainly not worth including as part of your regular repertoire. But better still, if someone offers to show you a card trick you can say "If its the one with 21 cards and three piles, don't bother, I know it. Here, let me show you a much better one." Next week, how to deal with MUTUS NOMEN. Paul. |
RandyWakeman V.I.P. Plainfield, ILLINOIS 1617 Posts |
Quote:
This is what makes it poor. The Marlo effect is the spectator mentally selects a card. Three rows are dealt out. The spectator indicates the row- you name the card. That's it! You deal out the cards once, and you are done. To redundantly fan cards and ask "if they see their card" again and again is just not an effect worth doing. |
TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts |
But Randy, then you don't get to see the guy run around naked to the mailbox.
On second thought, maybe randy's right. I'm not sure I would want to watch some guy do that. Use the Marlo trick, I say!!!
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
RandyWakeman V.I.P. Plainfield, ILLINOIS 1617 Posts |
Frank Garcia used "this principle" to wow the crowd with "Poker-Mental" from "Super Subtle Card Miracles."
That reveals FOUR mentally chosen cards, and is a strong routine. The principle is an old one. There is no point beating this thing to death. If you want a "21 Card Trick" that is worth doing, see "Marlo Without Tears." If you want to read "the principle" being used in a much stronger way, see the Garcia book. It is also in "The Book of John" (Mendoza) titled "Routined Poker Mental." PS to Paul - - - please don't start with "Mutus Nomen Dedit Cocis!" I really hate that thing! |
gilbreath76 Loyal user 279 Posts |
Personally, these types of tricks where you lay the cards down and ask "Is your card in here" then regather them and spread them again repeatedly is not magical at all.
Even if your goal is to try to stump the Uncle Joes who think they know how the 21 card trick is done. Even if you fool them, in their minds, IT IS STILL A MATHAMATICAL TRICK! If I were to do this trick, it would be disguised in false shuffles and cuts to make the cards appear random. Systematically regathering them and respreading screams out "MATH!" |
Dave Egleston Special user Ceres, Ca 632 Posts |
I can't even say "MUTUS NOMEN DEDIT COCIS"
Hey PWAGORN: Check out the references sited - I think you'll see that this equation has been solved - I know that it's disappointing when you've thought of a new technique only to find that someone thought of it and published it 100years ago - Now you know how I felt when I found out I wasn't the originator of the double lift - I independantly discovered it while playing "WAR" on bus "81" going to school on Sept 21, 1962 - Marlo never even mentioned me or my independant invention in any of his publications - Hopefully Mr. Wakeman will remedy this oversight in his next book - |
Paul Inner circle A good lecturer at your service! 4409 Posts |
Quote:
On 2002-08-07 20:39, RandyWakeman wrote: Also to be found in "The Restaurant Worker's Handbook" by Jim Pace and Jerry MacGregor. Jerry included it and thought it worth the price of the book (as John Mendoza had with his book).Not much difference between then. It is a great routine. Tony Griffith has a good routine that took it away from playing cards. Randy, Les Johnson wrote a book on a new version of MUTUS NOMEN, called "Mutus Exclusive". Paul. |
Ian Richards Loyal user 226 Posts |
From a performance perspective, "Routine Poker Mental" from 'The Book of John', is one of my all time favorite effects.
"The Impossible 21 Card Trick" by Doug Conn from 'Tricks of My Trade' is another three piles of seven cards effect that is very entertaining. |
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