The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » What happened, was this... » » How should I feel? » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (4 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
Jaxon
View Profile
Inner circle
Kalamazoo, Mi.
2539 Posts

Profile of Jaxon
Here I am. Performing for a private party of about 50 people. There is one guy there who's being a jerk to everyone.

Of course, during my show the guy tries to heckle me. He comes up with an attitude like "I dare you to use me" when I ask for a volunteer". Normally I handle hecklers by kind of winning them over. To make them laugh.

Anyway, during my performance he grabs one of the decks of cards I had on the table. Throws it across the room and it hits an old white haired lady right in the face. Then he's actually laughing about it. he's sitting on a chair a few feet from me.

When I saw what he did. The deck hitting the lady in the face and him laughing. I just exploded. I punched him right in the jaw and knocked him out.

Being the "entertainers" mode. I just looked at him on the floor. looked at the audience and said, "Anyway. on with the show" and went into my next trick with him laying on the ground.

How should I feel about this? I hate to get in a fight. Especially when I'm performing because that's very unprofessional. I regret it happened but I have to admit. After seeing that poor lady being hit in the face by a full, boxed deck and the guy laughing. I can't help but be glad I did it. When it happened it actually got an applaud too.

Just wanted to share this unfortunate experience and see what you all think.

Ron Jaxon
Image


After regaining my ability to hear after 20 years of deafness. I learned that there is magic all around you. The simplest sounds that amazed me you probably ignore. Look and listen around you right now. You'll find something you didn't notice before.
Avrakdavra
View Profile
Loyal user
The Pine Tree State, USA
224 Posts

Profile of Avrakdavra
I think that you could have been arrested for assault (despite my sympathy for what you did). Much better to let the host handle such an unruly boor.
Jaxon
View Profile
Inner circle
Kalamazoo, Mi.
2539 Posts

Profile of Jaxon
I agree. Normally I would just stay out of it. I never intended this. I'm a very easy going guy.

This guy was bugging people all night. verbally and physically. No did a thing. If someone would have approached him/us I would have just stepped away. Probably would have just left. In my contract it states that if at any time I feel myself or my equitment is in danger I'll leave and full amount is due me.

Anyway. I wish it didn't happen. But that was a terrible thing to see. The pointing and laughing is what set me off.

Ron Jaxon
Image


After regaining my ability to hear after 20 years of deafness. I learned that there is magic all around you. The simplest sounds that amazed me you probably ignore. Look and listen around you right now. You'll find something you didn't notice before.
drwilson
View Profile
Inner circle
Bar Harbor, ME
2191 Posts

Profile of drwilson
Dear Ron,

Wow, I understand the reaction, but really. Anything further come from this?

Some folks who work with a contract require the host to be responsible for security. It's a tough call at someone's house, but it's not really your job to be the bouncer. If you think that it is, you might as well play biker bars, and if you want to do that you probably have to rework some of your material.

So how do you feel about it? That's really more important than how we think that you ought to feel.

Yours,

Paul
Cliffg37
View Profile
Inner circle
Long Beach, CA
2407 Posts

Profile of Cliffg37
My first reaction to this story is to applaud. After all, don't we all want to do that to hecklers? My fantasy is to have a stooge in the audience armed with a cattle prod.

My next reaction is to think he stole from you and used the stolen item to hit a woman. I pat you on the back for your chivalry. You successfgully defended not only the honor of a woman, but of magicians as well.

Now the hard part. obviously he can sue you. I have no clue where or how that would go, but clearly he accrued more damage than he gave. You also may be feeling guilty over it. Was he stunned or truley injured. A concusion takes months to heal, and the victim of it finds limited or no use of the affected brain are. This could be bad ballance, can't see, can't hear, etc. Do you know his condition after the incident?

While I want to stand and cheer for you, I think we all agree that these types of things need to be avoided. Were you having a bad day? was it the last straw? or did you just snap? If you just sanpped, you may want to take a look at yourself and your reactions.

Anyway, good job going on with the show.
Magic is like Science,
Both are fun if you do it right!
Matt Bartz
View Profile
Loyal user
Gilbert, Arizona
253 Posts

Profile of Matt Bartz
How should you feel?

Afraid.

I hate to say this, but it seems like you totally lost control. I can understand how and why you lost control, but that doesn't matter.

1. If I were you, I'd be afraid that something similar might happen again and have a worse ending.
2. If I were you, I'd be afraid of the civil law suit that may be headed my way. You were lucky not be be arrested and facing criminal charges as well as civil. If you get sued over this, expect to lose several thousand dollars (at least), if he has permanent injuries or has lost time at work as a result, expect to lose a lot more. BTW- In most states, the man you hit has at least a year or two before he needs to file the law suit, so don't think you are out of trouble until a few years have passed and you haven't heard anything from him.
3. If I were you, I'd be afraid of how much business I just lost by lashing out like that during a show. A few people may have applauded, but you were so far out of line that most will never recommend you to a friend as a potential hire, they'll just laugh about you when they tell the story around the water cooler at work.

If you had the right to walk out, as stated in your contract, you should have taken the option.

I have no doubt that you are a good magician, this post is by no means a personal attack , but I also hate to see anyone read your post and think they can do what you did and get away with it. You may, you may not.
I really hope this works out for you, with all my heart, because I really feel bad about what happened to you.
Matt Bartz
View Profile
Loyal user
Gilbert, Arizona
253 Posts

Profile of Matt Bartz
Jaxon-
I think it would help you to understand where I am coming from.
I'm a law school student and just finished working for an office that handled a battery case this summer.

The situation was much less extreme than yours. A man, while working, gave a woman a 1 second kiss on the lips that she did not invite. He had to pay $6,000. An uninvited kiss is considered a battery, just like a punch in the face is. Now, if he would have punched her in the face and knocked her out, he would have paid a lot more than he did.

I know he was ruining your show and ruining the event for the guests and something needed to be done.
I know that you couldn't just let him take your deck and hit a lady in the face and not say or do anything, but maybe you should have gotten the host and put the magic on hold until someone talked to him and asked him to leave or settle down. They also should have gotten his personal information in case the old lady wanted to sue him.

I'll say it again. I sincerely hope this works out for you and never happens again.
Jaxon
View Profile
Inner circle
Kalamazoo, Mi.
2539 Posts

Profile of Jaxon
Thanks for all your honest advice and opinions.

Believe me, if I could go back, watch it happen and make some changes from the observers point of view I would have stopped it.

Actually, I was having a very good day. Was in a good mood. I've never done anything like this before. The only time I've ever been in a fight in my life was just defending myself. Well, when I was a kid I had a few. but even then I was never a trouble started.

I should also mention that I've performed for this group many times over the last 4 or 5 years. All I heard from people after it happened was they didn't blame me. Many wanted to do something too but no one did. This instance wasn't the first close call that happened with this guy that night.

Everyone there was very nice and continued to be after it happened. This guy was a new boyfriend of a girl that I've seen at all the events I've performed for for this group. He wasn't seriously hurt. I also found out taht the guy himself doesn't blame me. I've gottena couple Emails from people at this party that said so. I guess he had the attitude that he didn't think aneone would stand up to him like that there. He is a big guy. I got no apologies from him, but I did from other guests there.

So it really was the last straw. Anyone who knows me knows it's not my charicature to do this. Actually, now that I've had time to think about it. I have had a rough year with a divorce amoung other things. It could have made me snap a little faster the normal. But I'm still not a trouble starter.

But I still have to admit that when I see his face laughing again I get mad all over even now. But I do regret it all happened.

I also agree that even if anyone in here doesn't blame me. Never do this yourself as mentioned above. I know now that there where other options. I knew before it happened that there was too. The evilness of the event, the laughter on his face and the poor lady covering her face was just to much for me to just stand there and do nothing. But as an entertainer it's not our job to keep the piece. I know I lost control. I hope no one else ever has to. Please learn from my mistake here. Yes, I admit it was a mistake but I can't help feeling a little glad someone stopped him.

Ron Jaxon
Image


After regaining my ability to hear after 20 years of deafness. I learned that there is magic all around you. The simplest sounds that amazed me you probably ignore. Look and listen around you right now. You'll find something you didn't notice before.
drwilson
View Profile
Inner circle
Bar Harbor, ME
2191 Posts

Profile of drwilson
Ron,

We're glad to hear that the guy wasn't hurt, and it sounds like there won't be any legal follow-up to this. So it sounds like you've learned something important without having to pay that much for it. Thank you very much for sharing this with us.

I thought about the situation you describe, and I have decided that if I ever find myself up against it, I will pack my show and walk. Even losing my fee is nothing compared to how things might turn out if they go badly. Now that I have thought it through, I hope that my decision kicks in without any deliberation if the situation arises. I am sure that I will be too hot to think if it does.

Remember (speaking from my own experience) that angry = stupid. Don't stay angry.

Thank you once again for sharing this story.

Yours,

Paul
Matt Bartz
View Profile
Loyal user
Gilbert, Arizona
253 Posts

Profile of Matt Bartz
Ron-

I already sent you this in a PM, but wanted to post some of it on this thread as well.

I'm glad to hear that you probably won't have any problems because of this.

And I thank you for posting this experience for others here (my hot tempered self included) to consider so we have thought of how to react if things ever go terribly wrong in the crowd.

I value greatly the contributions you constantly make.

Thanks,
Matt
MaGiShN46
View Profile
Loyal user
244 Posts

Profile of MaGiShN46
Would you reccomend me getting a contract for my shows?
Bill Blagg III
View Profile
Regular user
169 Posts

Profile of Bill Blagg III
Hey Ron. Props to you man! I don't promote this sort of behavior but hitting a lady with a deck of cards. So, since everyone is bringing up being sued, etc. What about the lady? She could sue the guy for hitting her in the face with a deck of cards. So if he sues you, have her sue him Smile
Dove84
View Profile
Regular user
181 Posts

Profile of Dove84
So this individual was sitting down when you hit him? You knocked him out with one punch, he fell to the floor, and you continued with the program? Nobody there thought to check on the guy, render medical assistance or call an ambulance or the police? Exactly what kind of group was this that they'd allow a man to be struck and knocked out and lie on the floor while you continued your performance? I guess if he'd choked to death on his own tongue or something that would have just been too bad. I'm very surprised no one thought it cowardly that you would hit someone who was sitting down and in no position to defend himself. It would have been different if you'd called him on his actions and then had an altercation but to hit someone who's just sitting there...
asper
View Profile
Veteran user
380 Posts

Profile of asper
I think that you should have been arrested. Learn to control yourself and show sympathy.

I was once at a magic show and the magician slapped his spectator. The parents called the cops and he was walked out in handcuffs before he could do the zombie (no kidding).

Hitting the guy was not an act of self-defense.

I feel bad for the lady, but hitting him was irresponsible.

Asper
Jaxon
View Profile
Inner circle
Kalamazoo, Mi.
2539 Posts

Profile of Jaxon
Was it irresponsible? Of course it was. I regret that it happened and I've never done anything like this before.

Should I have been arrested? Probably and if I where I would have taken my punishment with no question.

he really wasn't defensless. He was facing me and at one point while he was laughing he actually patted me on the back. When it happened he was looking right at me.

Maybe knocked out wasn't the right word. I don't think he lost consiousness but he was dazed. He was was up and walking away within a minute and the only one that escorted him was the girl he was with.

This event was held in a bar. The bar was open to the public but most of the people there where there for the party.

Believe me. The next time there is someone at an event I'm performing at and they might be a problem. I will probably say that I will not perfom unless the issue is resolved before anything could go bad.

I'm not proud of this. But it happened and maybe by posting it in here others can not repeat this mistake.

Ron Jaxon
Image


After regaining my ability to hear after 20 years of deafness. I learned that there is magic all around you. The simplest sounds that amazed me you probably ignore. Look and listen around you right now. You'll find something you didn't notice before.
eggshell
View Profile
Regular user
Chorley, England
146 Posts

Profile of eggshell
Sorry Jaxon but with the obvious embellishment regarding the knock out punch at the beginning of your story which you have since retracted I do seriously start to doubt the "white haired old lady bit" which is possibly the only justification for your actions. It seems to me that the truth of the matter is that this ******* started messing with your props and you lost your temper.

When you are being heckled,if you are unable to shut the guy up with banter or by actually using him in your act (which I would imagine takes a lot of guts and experience), then the only thing you can do is pack up and walk. Violence is not the answer.
Jaxon
View Profile
Inner circle
Kalamazoo, Mi.
2539 Posts

Profile of Jaxon
I agree. It's not the answer.

The white haired old lady is exactly the thing that set me off. Believe me. I'm not the kind of person who goes off like that. It was a shocking thing to me and the people who know me.

Actually, some of the best moments I've ever had in a show where the result of a heckler. Actually, of kind of winning over a heckler. Then them to laugh or react in a positive way often results in a great moment in a show.

He was basically a bully. One of those people who enjoy starting trouble. Unfortunately, I'm sure we've all meet them at some point. They are out there.

I appreciate your opinion and I agree it was a very wrong thing to do. But please don't call me a liar. I mean I could have just said I had a jerk in my show and I finally had enough and hit him. Knocked him off his chair and he laid there in a daze. I just wouldn't do that just because he's a jerk. If I where the type to hit someone every time they touched my props then I'd be hitting people quite often.
So the old white haired lady isn't something I dreamed up to justify my actions. I'm saying there is no justification to my actions. This is just how it happened.

Since I've posted this I've received a few Emails from people who have been in similar situations. Who finally had enough and/or witnessed someone doing something they just couldn't stand by and just let it go on anymore. All of them and myself agree that it was the wrong thing to do.

Ron Jaxon
Image


After regaining my ability to hear after 20 years of deafness. I learned that there is magic all around you. The simplest sounds that amazed me you probably ignore. Look and listen around you right now. You'll find something you didn't notice before.
eggshell
View Profile
Regular user
Chorley, England
146 Posts

Profile of eggshell
Ron,

A classy response to my quite strong challenge. It was more of the description of the lady as a "white haired old lady" that I was querying than that that happened. Whatever, I always enjoy your "magic related" posts and I apologise if I came across as calling you a liar.

With Respect.

Mike
Conlaw
View Profile
New user
76 Posts

Profile of Conlaw
Perhaps in the future it would be wise NOT to invite the heckler on stage to be your "volunteer"? I mean, if he is being a jerk why give him the attention he is seeking by putting him in the spotlight?

I know you said you feel bad for this white haired old lady but really it is your actions that led to her getting hit by the cards. You knew this guy was a jerk and you invited him on stage despite that fact. While you couldn't have know that he would throw the deck at anyone you should have known he would remain a trouble maker (even more so now that he was "in the show"). It seems to me the reason you lost control and hit him is because in the back of your mind you felt responsible for what had happend.

You were smart to have a "walk out" clause in your contract to begin with. You were unwise in not using that clause in this case.

It is clear you regret your actions, which indicates to me that you won't be doing something like this again. The only thing I would be worried about is, like others have mentioned, a lawsuit. Although, as long as this guy didn't have any real damages (i.e. no broken bones or cuts or need of medical attention) I would not be too concerned about being sued civily.

Conlaw
Jaxon
View Profile
Inner circle
Kalamazoo, Mi.
2539 Posts

Profile of Jaxon
You're all absolutely right. It was wrong of me and I'll do everything I can to not repeat it.

In some ways I regret that I posted about it her, but now that I think about it I'm glad I did. The disussion out in the open now and if any of you are in a position where someone does something that, for lack of words, ****es you off. Maybe someone out there will think about this discussion and make a better choice of action then I took.

That's basically why I titled this post, "how should I feel". because this is totally against my nature. Yes, he really pushed me to the limit. I think it shocked me more then anyone.

Anyway, this happened and I have to evaluate it and use the experience to learn a lesson. What would taht lesson be? If you leave a deck of cards on the table make sure it's empty incase someone throws at it some one? Smile Just kidding. The lesson is obvious. The lesson is taht when we are performing we have feelings and the we can get hurt, mad, sad, happy, excited, etc.. But the bottom line is our actions while we are up there are not personal. They are professional. My actions weren't professional this time but if the situation arrises again I'll be better prepaired.

Ron Jaxon
Image


After regaining my ability to hear after 20 years of deafness. I learned that there is magic all around you. The simplest sounds that amazed me you probably ignore. Look and listen around you right now. You'll find something you didn't notice before.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » What happened, was this... » » How should I feel? » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (4 Likes)
 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2017 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.2 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL