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Prunesquallor
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Can anyone tell me where Out Of This World originates, and who invented it?
Pete Biro
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Paul Curry. Used to sell for a buck. My favorite version is U.F. Grant's using a shuffled deck.
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hugmagic
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Yes, it was Paul Curry. And the U F Grant version is so much simpler to do and gets the same effect.
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Julie
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U.F. Grant's was cleverly called, "Nu-Way Out of this World". He sold this for $1 too.
markhammagi
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For those interested, the U.F. Grant routine can be found on page 13 of Paul Curry's "Out of this World" manuscript.

One of the things that I like about the Grant routine is that it is impromptu (although a competent cull in a prior routine can make Curry's routine appear to be impromptu).
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WRandall
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Quote:
On 2004-11-12 13:56, markhammagi wrote:
For those interested, the U.F. Grant routine can be found on page 13 of Paul Curry's "Out of this World" manuscript.


Do you know which printing/edition of the manuscript you have that contains the Grant variation? I was hoping to find it in the World's Beyond book, but no go.

Thanks,
Will
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I purchased my copy of Paul Curry's "Out of this World" manuscript through my local magic dealer about 8 years ago. I would assume that you local dealer can get his hands on a copy of they are still being sold.
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I heard that someone fooled many time a president of the USA with this trick. I don't remember who.

Devilix
WRandall
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Devilix, the story goes that it was peformed for Winston Churchill during WWII by an actor/magician named Harry Green. Churchill had him perform the trick for him several times and was late to a meeting of Parliment because of it. I wonder if he ever figured it out... or if the story is true.

Andy, I have a typewritten manuscript for OOTW, but it's far from 13 pages long. I'll keep an eye out for other editions, since I'd like to learn the Nu-Way.

Thanks,
Will
Bill Hallahan
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Does anyone have access to Underworld, No. 1, 1995?

I am also interested in the lineage of Paul Curry’s “Out Of This World”, commonly referred to as OOTW.

Here is a rather long footnote from Paul Curry’s book, “Worlds Beyond”, Hermetic Press, 2001, p. 183-184
Quote:
The plot of having a spectator intuitively sort face-down card into red and blacks was not original with Mr. Curry. Reinhard Müller has pinpointed examples as far back as the 1800s, which he reports on in Underworld, No. 1, 1995. p. 4. In the same issue Karl Fulves mentions two early Scarne approaches. (Also see The Fine Print, No. 1, 1995, p. 2; and No. 4. 1996, p. 89.) However, there is no question that Curry’s method eclipsed all the previous ones of the time (and arguably to the very present). Its birth occurred during a session with John Scarne, at which they tried to improve on a Walter B. Gibson trick, “Pay Off”, which appeared as the first offering in the first issue of The Phoenix (January 1942). Gibson’s effect, by the way, does have a spectator sorting face-down cards by color, but it as much resembles Stewart James’s classic Miraskill (The Jinx, No. 24, Sept. 1936, p. 147) as it does “Out of This World”. Fred Braue tells the story of the conception of “Out of This World” in his column in the December 1948 issue of Hugard’s Magic Monthly (Vol. VI, No. 7, p. 489):
Quote:
The genesis of “Out of this World” is fascinatin’. Curry and Scarne watched Audley Walsh do Gibson’s “Payoff” and began figuring angles. Scarne devised a trick in which a spectator cut groups of cards, then Scarne told him how many red cards each contained, the method involving seconds, bottoms, shifts, palms and prayers. Even Johnny couldn’t do it.

Curry struck off on another tangent, speculating on the idea of a self-working face-down color separation, and came up with “Out of this World.” “I didn’t think much of my method,” Curry writes. ‘It wasn’t until a week later that I actually did it. On the basis of my very-suffering wife’s reaction, I realized that the effect was fairly good. It’s a funny thing - all the details of the stunt came to me in about 15 minutes. Since then my mind has been in a complete fog and I haven’t figured out any angles that differ to any extent from the original method. But to this day - I don’t quite understand why it should fool magicians.” That’s the history of the greatest self-working trick of our time.

The fog eventually cleared, though, as the article following this one shows.-S.M.

(S.M. is for “Steven Minch”)

The last comment refers to the next trick that follows in the book named, “Best of Possible Worlds”. That trick has an even better ending than OOTW, although from the participant’s perspective, the trick is already completely impossible.

I am also interested in U.F. Grant's method. Could that be one of the references listed in Underworld?

(Also, for the record, the various different capitalization of OOTW are actually like that in the quotation. Of course that quotation does not have the Magic Café’s “Quote” delimiters).
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MueCard
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Bill,

I do have access to UNDERWORLD Issue No. 1 (1995).

Reinhard Müller
Nick B
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Paul Curry's description of OOTW and the Winston Churchill story are in his book Magicians' Magic. Harry Lorayne has an excellent version of it (Out Of This Universe) in Close Up Card Magic.

Hope this helps.
Nick
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Harry also has his Impromptu OOTW in My Favorite Card Tricks. Does anyone know if that is different from the UF Grant method?
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In read in PHOENIX of July 29, 1949 of "Further OOTW" in impromptu method, which was invented by OSCAR WEIGLE!
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Mr. Muller, I noticed that in that issue of Phoenix (#182), a desciption of the effect is given and the suspicion that the routine would be marketed. Do you know if it ever was published or marketed? I'd love to see it. Oscar Weigle is a name unfortunately either forgotten or never learned by most modern day magicians and it is too bad. Virtually everything of his I've ever seen has been very, very good.


Posted: Apr 14, 2005 3:34am
---------------------------------------------
Here is the description of the Weigle routine from Bruce Elliott in Phoenix #182:

"Oscar Weigle has cooked up the finest newest card trick we've seen in many a long year. We imagine he's going to market it. Martin Gardner, we think it was, suggested that the only title for the stunt is 'Further Out of This World.' And it is! For the basic effect, like OOTW, is that a spectator or spectators divide the deck into reds and blacks, but they do this after having shuffled the deck themselves ad infinitum! At any point in the separating process they can shuffle as much as they like. Coo lumme, what an effect!"

Larry, the Grant handling, while not the same as Lorayne's, has some strong similarities, as does Gary Ouellet's "Netherworld" in "Close Up Illusions."
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Jonathan Townsend
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Is Oscar still alive? He was in NYC last I asked.
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JimMaloney
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On 2005-04-14 11:46, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
Is Oscar still alive? He was in NYC last I asked.

Last I saw him was several months ago. I assume I would have heard if he had passed away, though.

-Jim
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cassis
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Hi,

I am a new member from France.

I am looking for a description of Out of Universe from Harry Lorayne. How is this trick?

I already knew Out of This World from Paul Curry.

Which version is better?

Thanks a lot
jl

Can you send me a message?
I would be in interest close up and magic for kids
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Hushai
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In 1975, Paul Curry himself published a booklet entitled "Out of This World - and Beyond." It is a compilation of all the best variations on OOTW that Curry knew of to that time. One of them is U.F. Grant's "Nu Way Out of this World," and it does appear on page 13 of that booklet, so maybe this is the same "manuscript" that Markhammagi refers to above. (Curry's original manuscript for OOTW came out in 1942, I think.) I don't know if this particular booklet from 1975 is still available anywhere, but if it is, I would highly recommend it as a source for learning OOTW and its variations. My copy is one of my prized possessions -- I bought it new back in the 1970's. It also includes Harry Lorayne's "Out of this Universe."
Bill Palmer
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"Out of This Universe" is in Close-up Card Magic. It always struck me that it was a cure for a problem that did not really exist. A lot of people have commented that OOTW is not impromptu. That depends entirely upon how you get into the routine.

I've been doing OOTW for almost 50 years. I figured out a way of setting it up in front of the spectators without their having any idea it was being done. It's so simple that it borders on being a no-brainer.

I start the routine with the statement "People in various parts of the world shuffle the cards differently from other people." And I demonstrate various different "shuffles," most of which are gags. The last shuffle of the series is a slop shuffle, which I call the Chinese shuffle. I use that shuffle to do the necessary separation into the main groups. From that, I construct the necessary starting situation for the Curry routine (sans the missed card) with a simple cut. Then I state that I will read their mind and shuffle the cards at the same time. I do one riffle shuffle, push the cards together and go into the Curry routine.
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Hushai
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Quote:
On 2006-07-06 22:53, Bill Palmer wrote:
I've been doing OOTW for almost 50 years. I figured out a way of setting it up in front of the spectators without their having any idea it was being done. It's so simple that it borders on being a no-brainer.

I start the routine with the statement "People in various parts of the world shuffle the cards differently from other people." And I demonstrate various different "shuffles," most of which are gags. The last shuffle of the series is a slop shuffle, which I call the Chinese shuffle. I use that shuffle to do the necessary separation into the main groups.


Curry himself notes that some performers use the slop shuffle to set up OOTW in his booklet "Out of this World - and Beyond" that I wrote about in my last post.
Bill Palmer
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What can I say? Great minds think alike! I never saw Out of This World and Beyond.

I wouldn't go into it just using the slop shuffle, though. It isn't motivated. Using the slop shuffle at the end of a string of semi-serious shuffles lays the groundwork for the setup.
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wash
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Everyone should check out Derren Brown's ootw on youtube. It's in the form of a living and dead test and stunning.
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Quote:
On 2006-07-06 22:53, Bill Palmer wrote:
"Out of This Universe" is in Close-up Card Magic. It always struck me that it was a cure for a problem that did not really exist. A lot of people have commented that OOTW is not impromptu. That depends entirely upon how you get into the routine.

I've been doing OOTW for almost 50 years. I figured out a way of setting it up in front of the spectators without their having any idea it was being done. It's so simple that it borders on being a no-brainer.

I start the routine with the statement "People in various parts of the world shuffle the cards differently from other people." And I demonstrate various different "shuffles," most of which are gags. The last shuffle of the series is a slop shuffle, which I call the Chinese shuffle. I use that shuffle to do the necessary separation into the main groups. From that, I construct the necessary starting situation for the Curry routine (sans the missed card) with a simple cut. Then I state that I will read their mind and shuffle the cards at the same time. I do one riffle shuffle, push the cards together and go into the Curry routine.


Bill,
Phil Thomas of the "Yogi Magic Mart" used to use the slop shuffle followed by the Charlier to accomplish this, I was always amazed at how random and 'sloppy" his slop shuffle looked.
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Hushai
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[/quote]
Bill,
Phil Thomas of the "Yogi Magic Mart" used to use the slop shuffle followed by the Charlier to accomplish this, I was always amazed at how random and 'sloppy" his slop shuffle looked.

[/quote]

Now I remember! The "Yogi Magic Mart" is where I bought my copy of "Out of This World and Beyond" back in the 1970's. I seem to remember that I got a nice note from Phil Thomas sometime back then, too, when I inquired about what other Paul Curry books and tricks he might have.
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Does anyone know whether or not the Brad Christian version on Street Magic is actually the U F Grant version?
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Here's another vote for Out of this Universe, by Harry Lorrayne. Derren Brown adds a nice touch to it, in his book, Pure Effect.
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I don't have access to the magic magazines and pamphlets mentioned by others, but what I do have are a couple of books written for laymen and beginners, one by Paul Curry, another by John Scarne. Each takes complete credit for the trick!

Scane's book, "Scarne on Card Tricks" (Dover, 1950) has the trick as #155, the last one in the book, and introduces it like this: "A card trick in which the spectator mysteriously separates the red-face cards from the black-face cards. A top creation by the author, who has kept the method a secret for many years."

Curry's book, "Magician's Magic" (Dover, 1965) in Chapter 13 under the heading "Out of This World", says: "Here's a story about one of my best-known tricks. [Story about Winston Churchill omitted] What follows is an explanation -- appearing in a book for the first time -- of this same red-black trick that so thoroughly and repeatedly baffled Winston Churchill, as well as practically everyone else who has seen it performed. It's known to my friends and to magicians generally as -- Out of This World."
Bill Palmer
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Getting access to these books is not difficult at all, no matter what part of the world you are in.

The Harry Lorayne book mentioned is very easy to find. Check with http://www.magicbookshop.com .
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I know, I know, you want to keep it to yourself! The best, new, way to learn my Out Of This Universe (and HOW TO SET FOR IT RIGHT UNDER YOUR SPECTATORS NOSES) is in my new book, LORAYNE: THE CLASSIC COLLECTION, Vol. 1. It is there, re-written, updated, etc., among A FEW HUNDRED OTHER EFFECTS/ROUTINES, among which, is ALSO, my Impromptu Out of This World. Best bargain in magic. HL
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