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Jon New user Israel 64 Posts |
Hey all,
This is my first post in this forum (although I've been reading other's messages for a while). I would like to hear your opinion about the two magic tricks: "Brainwave Deck" and "Invisible Deck" (I hope these are the "official" names). Which Is better? Which do you like most?... thanks, Jonathan |
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hocopoco New user 79 Posts |
Whit Haydn has a wonderful routine with Brainwave in a set of his lecture notes. Worth looking up.
I prefer Brainwave. Sleight of hand, as a possible solution, is more problematic in the spectator's mind. |
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Shane Wiker Inner circle Las Vegas 1199 Posts |
I prefer the Invisible Deck, since the face-down card makes it more suspenseful to the audience.
Here are some threads about the exact same question: http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......;forum=2 http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......;forum=5 http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......forum=15 http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......;forum=2 Shane Wiker |
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Jon New user Israel 64 Posts |
Thanks.
One more thing - and I hope you didn't talk about it before... : Do you think I can make my own Invisible deck ? It doesn't look too difficult. any links for this one ? |
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Shane Wiker Inner circle Las Vegas 1199 Posts |
Here's a post I made awhile ago about making your own gimmicked decks:
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/searc......=3723499 Shane Wiker |
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YVRDave Regular user Vancouver, BC 104 Posts |
I prefer the invisible deck because I think it is easier to explain that you turned over 1 card in the deck than you put a card from another deck in it. Also you don't need to worry about the color of the card box.
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Jordini Inner circle 2765 Posts |
Also, ID is easier to use than BD
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Kfmagic New user 100 Posts |
I think people like the invisible deck more. The image of the blank cards and then one face up or face down card really throws them. I think brainwave is good, just not as good as the id
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Shane Wiker Inner circle Las Vegas 1199 Posts |
Kfmagic,
The Invisible Deck does not use blank cards. Perhaps you are referring to the Mental Photography Deck? Shane Wiker |
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marko Inner circle 2109 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-11-09 21:49, Jordini wrote: This varies by the individual. I use the Brainwave deck (but have used both) and personally find it easier to do. If you mark the back of 7th, 14th, and 20th cards with a pencil there's almost no counting. With practice, locating any card becomes automatic. The odd-even arrangement and pairings with the ID were actually more of a hassle for me. Oh well, I'm glad both decks are around. Each have their strengths.
Thought: Why does man kill? He kills for food. And not only food: frequently there must be a beverage.
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rannie Inner circle 4375 Posts |
There are a few videos that teaches different routines with the ID. One is all about the ID , I believe Steve Bedwell (hope I spelled his name right) has his handling for the ID. Henry Evans has an interesting use/application for it too.
IMO the is more versatile.Actually the special something makes it as versatile. Peace, Rannie
"If you can't teach an old dog new tricks, trick the old dog to learn."
-Rannie Raymundo- aka The Boss aka The Manila Enforcer www.rannieraymundo.com www.tapm.proboards80.net |
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phillys Loyal user 232 Posts |
I personally prefer ID over any card trick and yes, you can make your own ID and I've made my own(about 3 decks so far...I think I need to make another one)
K'Chai
Blog: http://dancingscrews.blogspot.com |
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Hideo Kato Inner circle Tokyo 5649 Posts |
One disadvantage of BWD is that the deck can't be placed in the normal case as it has red backs and blue backs.
How do you treat this problem? Hideo Kato |
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truthteller Inner circle 2584 Posts |
Ok, I'll come off as the jerk, but I hate this post and the dozen other like it. Given that the initial poster is a beginner, I think it is great he asked. For a beginner, it is a fair question. However, it is the inevitable debate which gets my ire up. So Jonathan, this is not directed to you but to the 10 other threads like this that have gone before.
For one, most people, based on their writing, do not understand the EFFECT of the brainwave deck and how it is conceptually different than the Invisible Deck. Couple that with the fact that the Invisible Deck is merely one presentation, popularized by Don Alan, that is possible with the Ultra Mental Deck, a creation of Eddie Fields, only compiles my frustration. That AND the fact that most people have not seen Don perform his Invisible Deck presentation to understand why that trick worked the way it did, only leads to goofy presentations that are most often patronizing to one's audience. So, let's talk, shall we. What EFFECT are you using this PROP to present? If it is that of a selected card magically reversing in the pack then the ULTRAMENTAL deck is probably one's best choice. The odd colored back makes no sense in that context. However, if you are presenting a prediction or mind control effect, then the kicker of proving that sleight of hand was impossible - that you didn't merely turn over the selected card when they were not looking - is desirable. One should choose the brainwave deck. In this later type of effect, the color of the card box is completely and totally irrelevant. In fact, it makes as much sense in that effect for the box to match as it does for it not. After all, two decks would be required to accomplish this phenomenon even if one were to do it for real. Regardless, the performance world of the mind reader is fundamentally different than that of the magician. Different rules of deception apply. Brand of card and color of box do not enter into that equation as a rule. Now, I will also add, but will not describe, that there are some amazing subtleties possible with the dual colored nature of the deck which only go to further convince the audience that your prediction was placed in that pack before the trick began. Again, the box being irrelevant. The UltraMental deck is capable of so much more than merely being an "Invisible Deck" and it is disappointing to see so many magicians merely following along a path that his been walked so many times before. Further, how sophisticated do we seem when we ask grown adults to play make believe and shuffle invisible cards? They feel like dorks. The laughter you are getting is nervous. Alan could pull it off because of his somewhat naughty presentation (You did know it was naughty, didn't you?) and the larger context of his style. Sadly, most magicians I have ever seen perform this effect - and believe me almost every restaurant magician I have ever seen has -merely does the same lines as everyone, eliciting their nervous laughter, but at least saving the day with what is unquestionably a really good trick. But why choose a trick which you KNOW other magicians do it in droves? If you are working in a venue that would hire a magician, then the type of people who would frequent that venue are the kinds of people who go to those KINDS of venues. Chances are they have been to another similar venue that most likely had a magician too. Given the number of magicians doing the same tricks, it is likely that they saw sponge balls and the invisible deck. Do you automatically want to invite comparison by choosing material they have seen before? Do you want to convey that magic is not unique but a commodity anyone with access to a magic shop can do? But I digress. Which is better, the UltraMental Deck or Brainwave PACK? They are both props. They can do different things, things that are not the "Invisible Deck." On their own, neither is or can be better than the other. Which is better, a paint brush or a hammer? Depends on what you are trying to do. Now, which is better the "Invisible Deck" effect or a "mind reading/mind control" effect? Well, that could be a healthy debate. However, with the success of Derren Brown and the interest in mind reading in general, I would be personally inclined to believe that the mind reading option would play stronger and appeal to adult sensibilities more than the "Invisible Deck" trick. You may disagree. Admittedly, you can do a mind reading effect with the UltraMental, but you loose the convincer. So, is it still the best tool for that job? Depends on what you are trying to convey. And wouldn't it be nice to see people talking about what they are trying to convey to their audience, what nuances of effect they are crafting in order to create a moment of wonder rather than meaninglessly debating which PROP is better and missing the point entirely. So, to answer Jonathan's question, they are both great. My advice - to a beginner - would be to buy the UltraMental deck and experiment. If you come up with ideas where the Brainwave features would come into play nicely, then invest in that tool when you can. |
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Mike Wild Inner circle NY, PA, TX, MA, FL, NC 1290 Posts |
RE: "One disadvantage of BWD is that the deck can't be placed in the normal case as it has red backs and blue backs.
How do you treat this problem?" I bought a wooden card case that has engraved images of playing cards on one side, and a similar but different image on the reverse, so I know which way to "hold" the box as I take out the cards. Not a revolutionary advance, but functional Mike |
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Kay New user 66 Posts |
I never liked Brainwave, use invisible deck all the time. And Dave if you want sleight just do a deck switch, it's a cool move too.
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Hideo Kato Inner circle Tokyo 5649 Posts |
I think, in BWD, appearance of a face up card is a strong visual effect. And I think appearance of odd back is a strong logical effect. (Because spectators need to understand that card is taken from another deck and inserted there).
Is this combination of visual effect and logical effect marrys and produce more power than showing one effect? Maybe mentalists can handle this double climax more dramatically like the case of B'wave. Hideo Kato P.S. While I was writing above, I found a meaningful combination of 'Reverse effect' and 'Odd Back effect'. You Ribbon Spread blue backed cards face up and spectator slides out one card. You close the deck and turn it face down. You insert the selected card face up in the middle of the deck crosswise and table the deck. Now you take out red deck and make a magical gesture over the blue deck. You spread the red deck and a face up card appears. It is same as the selected cards. You place it in the middle of face down red deck crosswise. The second effect is exchange of the blue back face up card and the red back face up card. You can do this effect with BWD. |
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Jon New user Israel 64 Posts |
WOW ! such a great forum: I post a question when I go to sleep - and receive tones of information when I wake up.
Next time - I'll definitely run a "search" for a quesion, before re-posting the same question for like the 7th time... you really helped me. |
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Marco S. Inner circle 1017 Posts |
Invisible deck is much better. Here is why:
Every once in a while somebody says BW is better, but most magicians use ID. And even spectators like ID better(I know this from experience). But why??? The answer is simple. ID is the real thing. A card is named and found to be the only one turned face down in the deck. When the spectator takes the card, they are really excited to see if it is their card, and wham it is. Moreover ID can be repeated immediately. BW cannot really be repeated, especially if somebody picks a red card if the one before picked a blue one. Magicians know what I mean. And here is another reason why some say BW is better, but which is not in my opinion. They say it has two climaxes. It is their card face up in a face down deck as well as another back color. This is true, but is it better? NO. ID is direct and there is no need to go further than that. Look at it this way. A bullet hits a target in a straight line, right in the middle. Cool, everybody agrees. This is the Invisible Deck. Here is BW. The bullet has one more climax. It is deflected by a wall or whatever and then hits the target in the middle as well. One more climax, and even more amazing some might say. Could be, but is it better than a direct hit??? No!!! This is the reason why most magicians use ID and not BW and it is also the reason why spectators like ID much better. Trust me, I have showed both to spectators and they all like ID better. Deep down inside everyone seems to know this and therefore the majority prefers it. It is the real deal and the best card trick I have ever come across. |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
I agree with Marco. ID is cleaner in both effect and impact.
I also like the version where you put an "X" on a card, and it turns out to be the one they select. You know, the one where you start by taking out a marker and marking the back of a card they can't see. This also points up the 'free choice versus 'inevitable certainty' issues.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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