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sinamon
Loyal user
259 Posts
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Posted: Nov 27, 2004 12:49pm
While searching the Internet about info on Max Maven I came aross this site
http://www.deddycorbuzier.com/
Any thoughts and comments?
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SpAgHeTtI
Regular user
167 Posts
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Posted: Nov 27, 2004 12:58pm
Deddy seems more cool and I hope that look work for him... 
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Dr_Stephen_Midnight
Inner circle
SW Ohio, USA
1555 Posts
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Posted: Nov 27, 2004 1:04pm
One could say he lifted it...
Then again, even the Maven look is basically his version of the classic, Mephistophlean image.
Steve
Dr. Lao: "Do you know what wisdom is?"
Mike: "No."
Dr. Lao: "Wise answer."
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scott b.
Special user
735 Posts
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Posted: Nov 27, 2004 1:59pm
I do believe that this was already brought up a few times on the Café (Both Deddy and Max are members here)
Thanks! Scott B.
"I don't know the key to success . . . but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." - Bill Cosby
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Mark Timon
Regular user
167 Posts
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Posted: Nov 27, 2004 3:08pm
I don't see anything wrong here! If debby corbuzier makes up the same way that Max Maven. Where is the problem? He lives in Malasia!
But if he lived in the US I'd say:
Where is the problem? There must be dozens of the people that have copied Banachek and Richard Osterlind! and what?
Someone really thinks that it's going to damage Max Maven's reputation?
It's like saying that because of the masked magician, David Copperfield is now jobless!
I don't like that kind of look anyway, too much black!
Regards
Mark Timon
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Anabelle
Special user
953 Posts
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Posted: Nov 27, 2004 3:31pm
I think Maven looks better.
Anabelle
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Patrick Redford
Inner circle
Michigan
1206 Posts
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Posted: Nov 27, 2004 3:35pm
Try searching for the thread about Free Will. There was a discussion about this there already. Deddy Corbuzier is Free Will's creator.
-George Tait
Cellular Oracle- Divine Thoughts
Square: Four Deadly Mental Feats with Cards
Heptagon+: Strong over-the-phone Mentalism
Glemme - On The Art of Locks & the Art of Virtual Amnesia
www.patrickredford.com
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enriqueenriquez
Inner circle
New York
1276 Posts
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Posted: Nov 27, 2004 4:23pm
Maven’s face can resist rain better, I guess...
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scott b.
Special user
735 Posts
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Posted: Nov 27, 2004 4:28pm
Quote:
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On 2004-11-27 15:35, magicbygeorge wrote:
Try searching for the thread about Free Will. There was a discussion about this there already. Deddy Corbuzier is Free Will's creator.
-George Tait
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Thanks much George, this was what I was talking about in my earlier post. But since the search is down for around a week that means you have to do it the old fashioned way (search through posts)
Thanks! Scott B.
"I don't know the key to success . . . but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." - Bill Cosby
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Scott Cram
Inner circle
1997 Posts
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Posted: Nov 27, 2004 10:39pm
Too bad he didn't steal Max's ability to use the English language.
"One of The Best Mentalist on Earth"
Well, if there's only one Mentalist, I guess you'd have to be the best. I guess he's so good that we're not supposed to notice the abitrary capitalization. I'm guessing the real quote began with "He looks just like . . ."
"What You About to Witness is All Authentic in Reality"
If the grammar was better here, you could realize how meaningless this sentence is. In Max Maven's own show, he even makes fun of statements like this.
"Welcome to The Zone of Mind~Bafling Miracles"
I can only assume this means that this person is inspired by Guy "Bafli".
"Visit only authentic website of Deddy Corbuzier at: 'www.deddy-corbuzier.com'"
So, I'm not allowed to visit any other websites, ever? Shhhh....nobody tell him that I'm on "www.themagiccafe.com" right now. I don't want this guy to catch me! BTW, Deddy, many browsers now have address bars that display the URL, so you don't have to display it on the page.
Don't even get me started on the remaining pages on the site.
Grey Matters:Blog|Videos|Mental Gym|Presentation|Store
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procyonrising
Special user
New York
699 Posts
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Posted: Nov 27, 2004 11:34pm
Hey Everyone,
You all can say what you want, but none of you would know who Deddy Corbuzier was if he didn't look that way.
Think about it. Someone says, "hey, did you hear the new one by Deddy Corbuzier?"
"Deddy, who?"
"You know, the guy who looks like Max Maven."
Fame by association.
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Allan-F
Regular user
Toronto, Ontario
130 Posts
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Posted: Nov 28, 2004 2:31am
Quote:
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On 2004-11-27 16:28, scott b. wrote:
But since the search is down for around a week that means you have to do it the old fashioned way (search through posts)
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Try Google:
"Free Will" site:themagiccafe.com
Allan-F
"What can be thought of or spoken of necessarily IS, since it is possible for it to be, while it is not possible for NOTHING to be." -- Parmenides
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mindgames
Veteran user
371 Posts
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Posted: Nov 28, 2004 3:04am
Dear All friend,
yes, I do think that my look is just like Max Maven and I cant be more agree with that.
when I first start my carrer as mentalist, I saw someone in TV doing mental stuff and he looks ljust like dracula or nosferatu (at that time I don't know if it was max maven, and takes me a months till I finally knew that it was one famous mentalist Max Maven)
it struck me in my mind what a good image he got! a dracula image!
my manager is also agree with that at that time and he said its good for Tv, the TV producer is also agree, but they said (and I also agree) that I must extend the image to be more extreem in nosferatu.
if you meet me, you will see that I used a dracula outfit and costumes long coat jacket to the floor with red color in the back side. no mustache since I think dracula have no mustache (at least in my mind) at that time I think it will have no problem at all since I extend the character.
but now, I realize that some magician or mentalist got trouble with my look. (not all since I have been working with many of BEST international magician that got no problem with the look. see my website for info for TV show with them)
it is funny I think, since we knew that many dancer look like Michael jackson to details but it didn't disturb Michael himself. but it disturb many magician with my looks.
Max is a tremendous magician and Mentalist. I love his work to death, hes brilliant and charming. and I believe we all agree with that.
max is also one of the best entertainers in the world I believe.
maybe I'm not that good at all, but then again you never see me perform...
I'm so sorry if my looks is really is that close to him, and I'm so sorry if it disturb Max or some mentalist in the world.
and I take it easy if some of you really want to make jokes with my image or even saying bad thing about me. trust me, ill take it easy. and I will not make it big deal at all. (it probably my fault so I will take it)
Thanks for sharing, I take it easy and I will try my best to think of it.
I READ MINDS.... YOURS TOO.
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Mark Timon
Regular user
167 Posts
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Posted: Nov 28, 2004 4:46am
Good said Deddy!
Regards
Mark Timon
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John Pezzullo
Veteran user
Sydney AUSTRALIA
355 Posts
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Posted: Nov 28, 2004 6:13am
Deddy,
A question...
If Max Maven were to ask you to change your 'look' based on the feeling that it's too similar to the signature 'look' that he has cultivated and developed over many years, would you:
A) Comply with his request and create another look for yourself that was less 'Mavenesque'.
or
B) Refuse to comply with his request.
Regards,
John
"One arrow. One life."
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Hypnotic Winter
Special user
Ireland
722 Posts
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Posted: Nov 28, 2004 6:47am
From my point of view I appreciate Deddy being honest about his look, not that it's anything to do with me anyway.
As far as Dracula goes though, I have some reasons to take the history of the character a little more seriously.
After all, I have a natural widows peek.
H.W
When your only reality is an illusion, then illusion is reality.
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ceeswing
Regular user
116 Posts
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Posted: Nov 28, 2004 6:47am
Mindgames, you just look ok to me. It a large compliment for Max Maven and a compliment to you.
I did not see a image copy of Mr Osterlind, just wait and see.
Regards
Cornelius
France
www.dcrtr.com
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mindgames
Veteran user
371 Posts
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Posted: Nov 28, 2004 6:50am
I really cant answer that John...
first, I got the look for almost 10 years, and I never got problem before until now.
like I said before, Max is one of the best entertainer now and then.
and I will never compare myself with him ever.
the issues is growing now perhaps that these days I try to put myself more "international" like marketing my effect "Free Will" which I wish you like it...
and probably because my Tv show in Asia that work together with many professional Magician like jay Scott Berry, Mc Bride, Todd Diamond and others...
like I said before some of them have no problems at all with my looks.
you got to meet me to know me better John.
but then again I fully understand if Max or others are complaining to my looks.
I believe the one that make the problem is the "Mickey Mouse" Hair cut that I have now.
if Max got the "Copyright" for it, I will sure change it.
and this will be my last post in this topic. from the first time, I don't really want to reply it at all, but what Mr Scott Cram Said in the forum is really is too much I think.
again, if you guys think I was wrong, I will take it.
but then again, please don't put anything like Mr Scott Cram did. its hurt more than what he tought.
and I hope you'll agree with me friends...
I READ MINDS.... YOURS TOO.
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TrickyRicky
Special user
TrickyRicky
989 Posts
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Posted: Nov 28, 2004 7:25am
Give the guy credit. He's got guts to do it.
When I saw it at first I thought it was not a good thing to do, but its a free world.
Richard.
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Ian Broadmore
Special user
556 Posts
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Posted: Nov 28, 2004 9:36am
David Berglas "Look" is like Dante, Dunninger also had a high forehead, chung ling foo (or was it soo?) impersonated a chinaman, in NLP its called modelling Does it really matter ?? does anyone really care.... just my thoughts.hmmmmm
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Dr_Stephen_Midnight
Inner circle
SW Ohio, USA
1555 Posts
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Posted: Nov 28, 2004 11:09am
It's not a big issue. I 'model' myself after Orson Welles.
Steve
Dr. Lao: "Do you know what wisdom is?"
Mike: "No."
Dr. Lao: "Wise answer."
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Alan Munro
Inner circle
Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA
3883 Posts
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Posted: Nov 28, 2004 12:00pm
And Max stole the look from Eddie Munster. LOL
There are more important things to be concerned about.
http://www.sneakymagician.com/
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salsa_dancer
Inner circle
1910 Posts
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Posted: Nov 28, 2004 12:21pm
Just to put my hat in the ring and say that it seems poor Deddy is getting it from all angles at the moment - which I think is a little unfair.
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Banachek
V.I.P.
Houston
913 Posts
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Posted: Nov 28, 2004 4:50pm
Okay, I have to chime in here and probably know better however; there is an awful lot of fluffing and covering up going on here and support of this covering up.
Deddy may indeed be a good mentalist, he may be a nice guy, however there is deception going on here. At the following area ( http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=88632&forum=15&start=0 ) Deddy said:
"Well, I started before even I know max and saw him on TV, it started from an image of Dracula character as for my client, no... no problem, I own my TV series on my country for the last 6 years.
including one special with Jeff MC Bride for the burning alive. in my country they don't even know Max. funny since in my country they presume I look like mickey mouse than Max... hahaha..."
This is very different than what Deddy states in this topic thread. (Yes Deddy said he did not know it was Max in this thread but then he was just stealing the image from another mentalist. Just because it was not Max, would that make it any more right?)
Max made it quite clear in the same thread that he did not approve and had told Deddy so. There are a lot of red herrings in the above statement. Such as using the name Jeff McBride to make it seem a big star is okay with it. In fact from what Max states, Jeff told Deddy he should not be using the image. Naming stars of our field you have worked with does not mean they endorse what you are doing.
Image is what it is. We all work very hard at getting our own image with what we do. Yes Max may look like Dracula, however Max was the first to take this look and use it for mentalism. At least wait till the guy dies before you steal it. In other words, Max was the first to think of it. Hence it belongs to Max. To come out on stage and stand there and say; "boo" would be wrong. To use the term; "Thief of thoughts," would be wrong, these belong to Max. He put a lot of time and thought to come up with those signature pieces, and that is what they are, signature pieces that belong to and make up the image of Max Maven. Be impressed by them, but don't steal them.
I know Dunninger used the bat symbol and had a slight widows peak (before anyone brings that up) but Dunninger has past away, and Dunninger never played on the Vampire look theme on stage, Max was the first to do so.
In Deddy's statement I suspect the Mickey Mouse theme is as a direct result of the Mickey Maven Lampoon that is done in good spirits to lampoon Max (he has become that much of a star).
My point is that just because you can do something and maybe you have the right to do something does not mean you should. We have the right to burn the flag, does it mean we should, of course not. It comes down to respect.
If Deddy is so good at what he does, he could lose the character he has taken and still do a great job.
If people thought that Deddy looked so much like Mickey Mouse, I bet Disney would want to hear about it and would put a stop to it.
Deddy does not have a track record for being totally honest. Keep that in mind when you defend his right to use Max's look.
Deddy makes a great point; now that he is "becoming more international" it is becoming a problem. This is something one should think about when one steals another’s look or lines or anything. Is Deddy now saying Max should lose his look so Deddy should take over? No, this is silly, so Deddy should be rethinking his look or he will always look like a Max Maven want to be rather than the star he wants to be.
Bottom line is that to take someone else's look is wrong even if an agent tells you to, in the end you are the one doing it. This is indeed equivalent to jumping off a bridge. When you get to the point you are crossing over into international recognition, if you have stolen someone else's identity, you have jumped off the bridge and the fault (the origianal mistake) lies with you and you alone and you need to go back and fix it. In this case, change your look.
Not picking on you Deddy, but this is how I see it, plain and true and to the point. You took someone else's identity to try to further your career. That is wrong.
In thoughts and Friendship
Banachek
Campus Performer of the Year two years in a row
Year 2000 Campus Novelty Act
PEA Creativity Award Recipient
http://www.banachek.com
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Mark Timon
Regular user
167 Posts
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Posted: Nov 28, 2004 5:51pm
Quote:
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On 2004-11-28 16:50, Banachek wrote:
Okay, I have to chime in here and probably know better however; there is an awful lot of fluffing and covering up going on here and support of this covering up.
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I disagree with you ,Banachek.
Though it's interesting to see how try to defend something that it's totally unreasonable.
If this guy wants to use the same look as Max Maven, it's totally respectful because as far as I know is not possible to copyright it.
Ethical? It depends on your point of view.
So everyone is free to make up as he likes. If you don't like it,just ignore it.
It's sad to see that though we know that this discussion is meaningless it continues.
There is enough room for every mentalist in this world with or without make up!
I bet that if you couldn't use something that you picked up from someone else in your performance, you wont be able to perform at all.
I don't mean that you stole anything but surely gave you some inspiration.
Yes or not?
Only that in this case is not a peek,a routine, some card trick or metal bending, it's something that is very visible.
PS You have confused -covering- with free opinion or maybe are we all sheeps?
Regards
Mark Timon
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enriqueenriquez
Inner circle
New York
1276 Posts
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Posted: Nov 28, 2004 6:04pm
There is a code of honor among clowns about not copying other clown’s face. It can be pass on to you by another clown, you can inherit it maybe, but you don’t just go and paint yourself as someone else.
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Banachek
V.I.P.
Houston
913 Posts
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Posted: Nov 28, 2004 6:23pm
NO, no, Timon, covering was in respect to Deddy stating he came up with the look by himself, then stating on another thread he was influenced by look on TV when he saw another mentalist (in Malasia I suspect), and then stating that his agents talked him into it then stating he took it to his agents and they said he should do it. Different stories for different threads and different difficult uncomfortable situations. The truth has only one answer and anything else is a cover for something lacking in the story at the moment.
Deddy on one thread: "Well, I started before even I know max and saw him on TV, it started from an image of Dracula character as for my client"
Deddy on another thread: "I saw someone in TV doing mental stuff and he looks ljust like dracula or nosferatu (at that time I don't know if it was max maven, and takes me a months till I finally knew that it was one hell famous mentalist Max Maven) "
Covering is when you name big names as if they endorse what you are doing. I can't speak for Jeff and others but would be shocked if they were okay with it as it might not follow their ethical choices and Deddy is making it look like they do.
This is good advice for anyone, in this case. Deddy will alway be seen as a Max Maven clone, no matter how famous he becomes. That would a shame for him. Copy someone and you will never be able to step out of that shadow.
I make lots of mistakes, all the time. If Deddy made this choice because he was young, naive when he adopted this, okay I can understand. It was a mistake, we all learn and grow up. You should state it was a mistake, not try to cover it up and make excuses. You then try to fix said mistake since it is your mistake.
You are right, one can indeed do what one wants, but as said, with freedoms comes a certain amount of self restraint and responsibility. Just because you can legally do something does not mean you should. If you do, then you should also be willing to take the critisicm that comes with such choices since other people have a right to speak up as well.
In this case (the topic at hand), who do you have more respect for, Max who came up with the concept, or Deddy who took the concept? Would not everyone strive for respect? I guess not.
As for someone stating that there is no problem because Deddy is in Malasia, yes it is a problem, because Max performs all over the world and Deddy stated himself, he is becomeing more internationally known. When Max is seen on Malasian TV, will they compare him with Deddy? Will they think it is Deddy, will Deddy get credit for Max's great performance weeks later and will he be hired as a result of Max's appearance because they think he is Max? If so, it is wrong.
Civilized society states that one should not Kill, cheat or steal. To me this is cheating and stealing.
As I said, I have no beef with Deddy, I just think he is very wrong on this issue and the way he has chosen to handle it. To be surprised it is an issue now seems naive. People told him years ago he should not be doing this. He chose to continue. The ball is in his court.
In thoughts and Friendship
Banachek
Campus Performer of the Year two years in a row
Year 2000 Campus Novelty Act
PEA Creativity Award Recipient
http://www.banachek.com
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R2
Special user
938 Posts
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Posted: Nov 28, 2004 8:15pm
I was in genuine hysterics when I saw the little clone. He looks tiny in the image.
A few close friends of Houdini were privy to his views on the name "Houdin" after he established a name for himself.
Harry stated to Ralph Read,(Tarbell Series Editor),
that if he were to do it all over again, he would never use any name but his own, which would be "White" the English version of the "Weiss" of his parents.
Once again, If I am ever in need of a chuckle on a down day, I shall gaze upon the little clone for a "Spell". I am quite certain that Brother Phil shall soon have a laugh as well!
~The as yet unimitable R2
I can hear the song "Mama" by Genesis playing in the backround. "'Cause it's getting so hard".
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chanor
Regular user
New York City
156 Posts
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Posted: Nov 28, 2004 9:34pm
Deddy may have stolen Max's visual image, but not his persona. Max performs with inimitable elegance, charisma, timing, and wit. To Deddy, I would ask what Joseph Welch did to Senator McCarthy long ago: "Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last?"
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John LeBlanc
Special user
Houston, TX
523 Posts
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Posted: Nov 28, 2004 10:23pm
Quote:
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On 2004-11-28 21:34, chanor wrote:
Deddy may have stolen Max's visual image, but not his persona. |
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But not for a lack of trying.
I've mentioned Deddy in my blog more than once because my blog, more often than not, deals with ethics in magic and mentalism. I find Deddy's behavior deplorable. I find his attempts to explain away his actions even moreso.
Unlike those who are defending Deddy, I have taken the time to watch all of the videos he's stored on the WWW. (Some of them are not specifically linked from his web site and take some digging to find.) What I see is someone not just generally appropriating Max's look, but really cloning Max. The eye makeup, the braided ponytail, the clothing, even the gesturing and vocal delivery make it plain Deddy's doing his best to channel Max Maven.
I don't understand how anyone who values integrity even in the slightest way can explain away Deddy's actions as morally and ethically acceptable.
I've heard from Max on the issue. I know what Jeff McBride told Deddy about the issue. I've seen Deddy's responses here on The Magic Café. We're past this being an innocent mistake of youth, and now into deliberate wrongdoing.
John LeBlanc
Escamoteurettes, my blog.
"One thought fills immensity." -- William Blake
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