I'm new to magic (my first post!) and have come up with a bit of a problem when I'm doing tricks...

I do mostly card stuff and got a little repitoire of tricks that I do really well. I generally do these for friends at work, or people I meet at a parties... The thing is, after doing them there's always a person or two - those analytical/logical type people - who start discussing amoungst themselves how the trick was done.. And once in awhile, they figure it out.

Now, normally I try to distract them as quickly as possible with another trick... but this doesn't always work (especially if it's a good effect.. even after I'm done, they'll be discussing it again.. )

I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions with regard to this?

You can't stop people from being who and what they naturally are. If they are analytical, they will naturally want to solve the puzzle you have presented to them.

Notice I did not use the word magic. Magic leaves no room or necessity for explanation. These are extremely rare moments that should be cherished and enjoyed.

By performing the effects you do, in the manner you do, you may be posing a challenge to the spectators to try and figure out how it is done. This reduces the effect to a mere puzzle, and human nature wants to solve a puzzle.

Puzzles can be very entertaining, but it isn't on the same level as magic. So, what you really need to do is try to elevate your performance to the next level.

A lot has been written on this subject, but one of the most valuable books I have read is "Maximum Entertainmetn" by Ken Weber. It's an extremely entertaining and educational read, and I would highly recommend it.

Hi there, I would like to add something it wont happens unless you do a very easy trick, which most people might know or if you do 5-6 tricks all involving double undercut,double lift "kind pick a card any card" most of the times I think 1 gets "busted" bcoz of using same technic again and again.

This is an interesting observation. Ken Brooke used to say, "Don't get greedy with a principle". Sounds like you want more variety in your routine and less people picking cards followed by the same control sequence.

There are some truly analytical people out there, but to be honest the ones that can reconstruct what you are doing are very few and far between. It's more than likely there are "tells" in what you are doing (your handling is suspicious or not as smooth as you think), the material is not as well constructed as you think or your presentation of effects is challenging.

Since this is happening repeatedly and tricks are being exposed (I take it you perform for the same group)why continue to perform when this person is around and having more tricks exposed?

I suggest having a think about the effects you are performing and your presentation of them.

You could also have a good self working non sleight trick up your sleeve for the next time the analytical person is around.

And don't forget, you decide when and where you perform.

Paul

I have the same problem. How do you get the audience on your side and stop them thinking its a puzzle?

You must involve the audience emotionally. You can't do that without framing, presentation and scripting.

I wont tell them how the trick is done what I do is if they want to know the trick I wont tell them. so what I say is maybe you should come to anoth show and maybe you can figer it out and somtimes they do come to another show but they still cant figer it out,now I know that might not be the best way but it dose make a lot of bissnus.LOL

Actually.. In my case, Magicman is right on the money. My whole patter involves a subtle 'bet you can't figure this out' way of presenting... I'd never noticed it before, but now that I think about it, it's exactly what I'm subconciously doing when I do the tricks, and I'm sure it's that feeling that the spectators get..

Time to re-think my presentation

You are so lucky to have dicovered this point so early in your magic career.

Mike

When they figure out how I did it, I just smile and congratulate them. I can't lie. They know when they got it. I just smile and tell them to practice it and keep it a secret. No biggie to worry about. Life goes on.

Most analytical people I know figure the effect out as more elaborate than it is. One solution I find helpful is to learn to do the effect two or three different ways. When someone says something like "That coins across uses an extra coin." I say "Then let's use six of yours" and I do the coins across that doesn't use an extra coin. If they want to challenge that method, I say "Now you are just guessing" and go to another effect. Also remember, magic is deceptive and you do not have to admit that they have figured the effect out correctly. One solution is to say "You think so, then let's see you do it that way." This places the challenge back into their arena to do an effect they probably know how it is done but cannot perform it.

I had the same problem in the beginning. I didn't realize it, but I was challenging the specs to figure out the effect. So it's only natural for them to play into that mindset. I caused that, I had no one to blame but myself.

After I did some busking at a carnival, I found that I got better reactions and less of that "I know how that was done!" type of vibe after I learned to emotionally involve the specs. This can be done by telling a staory along with the effect, for example. Or sometimes it's just a matter of how you carry yourself.

So now I'm very aware of how I come off to the specs, out of fear that I'm challenging them like a card-shark wannabe, which, as we all know, can be so obnoxious!

It's great that you are noticing this about yourself and are approaching it objectively. That shows some serious character and a strong desire on your part to respect the art.

I wish you the best of luck!

When spectators figure you out...NEVER let them know they're right. I usually say something like, "Wow, that's a neat idea! I might have to try THAT." Or "that would probably be a lot easier than what I just did."

Never explain and never confirm. Then do something that looks similar with a different effect, or a similar effect with a completely different method...but that last part is completely optional.

I've just seen Jay Shanky's (hope I spelt that right) Papercliped, good video, worth the money. He said that he only does 3 or 4 tricks for a group. At the very out side he _may_ do 6, but not often.

I guess that This 'philosophy' will reduce the number of controls/forces that they see. I guess that this also makes it harder to work it out.

I love your idea Berkley. "The coin's in your pocket..."

"Hmmm, really? Hey, I bet that would work. How would you do it? That's a whole new trick for me!"

I started my chop cup with the traditional Don Allen and the "Where's the ball? Nope, you're not watching..." Discussions here with people that I hold in very high regard indeed convinced me to change it. The routine, based originally on Don Allen's, is barely identifyable now. I call it, "Would you be impressed?"

A hint is "Look, if the ball moved, from here, to there, all by itself, would that impress you?"

As a spectator, I love watching an engaging performer. Whether the performance is music, theatre, magic, or whatever, I only find myself thinking about the mechanics of the performance if I'm NOT engaged.

I remember very clearly watching Martin A. Nash many years ago. His card work was amazing, but what I really went away with was "Man, I really like that guy!" I didn't care how he did his tricks; I just wanted to hear his stories and be amazed.

John

1 time I did a trick with you knowa double lift put a "ace"intheir hands.. another double lift a joker and the card switched they said yeah you ve 2 jokers in your deck then I did a similar trick but it wasnt completely the same and say yeah I also have 2 8 of clubs in my deck yeaah right
they were stunned and trukly believed I didn't have 2 jokers in my deck so that's what I usually do amaze them with another effect to prove themt hey were wrong
hope it helps

I don't get into conversations with spectators about whether they are right or not. I just smile and then it's the next effect. But, I will take notice of what was said later and perhaps review my handling of that effect if warrented.

Sometimes, they will say something because you didn't handle it optimally. Think about how smoothly you performed the action and more importantly was it timed correctly as regards misdirection. Sometimes they will guess because somebody has actually purchased the effect or knows a little bit about conjouring. These people are not capable of performing the stuff themselves, not in a million years, but they take a perverse delight in shouting out. It's human nature for some and you can't fight it.

If you have the chance, hit the doubter next time with principle they don't know. This is more applicable in street work or strolling type where maybe you will come back to that group later. Eg Someone calls you on a load, then use a chop next time so there's no possibility you could have made a load. Or they call you on a pull through. Then use a slip, a jog, or a bottom shuffle. I've also got three different types of other false over hand shuffles in reserve. Keep on doing different things if you can.

I find its better to just say somthing like, mabee or somthing along those lines then walk away. Sometimes by trying to prove them wrong you just ruin the trick. Remember, you want the ending of the trick to be their surprise, if you start talking and argueing right after, the trick can't set in.

Just a tip for all new magicians and old alike, but try and get a copy of strong magic by darwin ortiz, that should help you with any problems or queries you may have with your own problems on magic and the spectators