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Topic: Help With a Color Changing Knife Routine.
Message: Posted by: Allan Olive (Feb 1, 2005 02:43PM)
Color Changing Knife Routine.

I was in a huge Bass Pro Shop and in the knife section they sold a set of the “color changing knives”. The knives themselves were pretty nice, but the routine it presented with them was very short did not live up to my expectation of what I have heard about the effect.

I have heard a lot of good things about this close up effect, but have never seen it presented myself, so I have no basis for reference other than this brief explanation given on the package.

Can anyone here post their favorite routine with the color changing knives? Or maybe even point me to a book or tape where a good routine is presented.

Thanks,

Allan
Message: Posted by: Gilmore (Feb 1, 2005 03:31PM)
Look here for Whit Haydn's excellent routine and knives:

http://www.chefanton.com/ScoundrelsStore/whit_haydn_products.htm

Also, there is Michael Skinner's work on VHS "The Michael Skinner Master Teach In Series - Color Changing Knives - Vol 2" available at:

http://www.a1magicalmedia.com/prod_template.cfm?productid=880

and many other magic shops.
Message: Posted by: DwightPA (Feb 1, 2005 05:53PM)
Check Tarbell (I forget which volume). There is enough there for you to develop a routine. Have fun!

Dwight Powell
Message: Posted by: Jaz (Feb 1, 2005 06:16PM)
Years ago there was a inexpensive booklet about the "Hot Rod" trick.
It was very helpful and showed me some very useful moves for routining.
OK, I just found it at The Trickery for $3.
"40 Tricks with a Hot Rod" by Scott Anderson

Depending on the size and shape of the knives some cigarette sleights are also pretty good.
Message: Posted by: mtmagic (Feb 1, 2005 10:16PM)
As mentioned above the Whit Haydn's routine is very good. It will require a third knife and the mongar set (which Whit uses) is very good. I've used his routine for a couple years now and it plays very strong for both adults and kids.
Message: Posted by: Open Traveller (Feb 2, 2005 01:08AM)
[quote]
On 2005-02-01 23:16, mtmagic wrote:
As mentioned above the Whit Haydn's routine is very good. It will require a third knife and the mongar set (which Whit uses) is very good. I've used his routine for a couple years now and it plays very strong for both adults and kids.
[/quote]

That would be "Mogar" as in "Joe Mogar."
Message: Posted by: Lee Darrow (Feb 2, 2005 02:39AM)
If you can find a copy of Ascanio's World of Knives, translated by Jose de LaTorre, you will find a superb compendium on this effect. Also, In Rene Levand's book is his routine for his "little knives" that is quite stunning.

Lee Darrow, C.H.
Message: Posted by: mtmagic (Feb 3, 2005 01:39PM)
Yes, Mogar, sorry about the mistake
Message: Posted by: Hart Keene (Feb 3, 2005 02:52PM)
I use Bill Malone's routine in my walk-around. However, I don't "expose" the gimmick at the end as he does because 30% of the time I believe the spectators sort of figure it out. No need to run when you are not being chased.
Message: Posted by: mike gallo (Feb 3, 2005 08:36PM)
L&L has a very nice video of Michael Skinner performing and teaching the "Knives".

Mike
Message: Posted by: illuzns (Feb 3, 2005 11:43PM)
Volume 7 of Tarbell's has a few routines in it. I believe that one of them is an Al Cohen routine showing an interesting handling of the knives. I have found that having the knife laying horizontally with the palm up and doing the paddle move as you roll your wrist from right to left and back again is very convincing and is more deceptive than the vertical position more commonly used.But that is just my opinion.
Have fun with it.
Your friend in magic,
Allen Cleveland-Illuzns
Message: Posted by: EvanSparts (Feb 4, 2005 01:24AM)
I qoute Derren Brown from Absolute magic, " Excuse me sir, is this your penknife" and with that the magic fell stillbourne from the womb.
Message: Posted by: Leeman (Feb 4, 2005 02:47AM)
The Haydn manuscript is worth it just for the Feidman flip-or whatever the correct name is-which is a paddle move where the hands don't even move, it is all at the finger tips.
Message: Posted by: Daryl -the other brother (Feb 4, 2005 08:47AM)
I can't believe no one's said this so here goes...Color-changing knifes in a Bass Pro Shop?? Sounds kinda...fishy.
Message: Posted by: Allan Olive (Feb 4, 2005 09:31AM)
Daryl...what can I say? I laughed out loud at your comment. But it's true, that'w where I found them.

I am interested in knowing more about "the Haydn manuscript", and the Freidman flip over. Where can that be found?

Allan
Message: Posted by: Daryl -the other brother (Feb 4, 2005 11:26AM)
Sorry Allan, I'm not familiar with Mr. Hayden's routine. Mine is a mix of Bill Malones (On the loose) and my own. I agree with Magic w/Hart, I don't expose the gimmick . I vanish the knifes ala toppit.
Message: Posted by: Whit Haydn (Feb 4, 2005 01:42PM)
"The Intricate Web of Distraction"--my routine for the color-changing knives that includes the "Friedman Flip" and the "Close Vanish"--is available both in pamphlet form and on DVD from http://www.chefanton.com/ScoundrelsStore/whit_haydn_products.htm

It is the routine used by Bob Sheets, Johnny Ace Palmer and many other pros.
Message: Posted by: Stevethomas (Feb 4, 2005 04:45PM)
Probably the very best routine I've ever seen for the CC Knives (and I love Sanders knives...) was taught to me by a wonderful guy named Richard Oakley from Memphis, Tennessee. I first saw him do it almst 30 years ago. Richard's about 75 now, and his routine, while not original moves, is an original combination of moves that flows very smoothly and cleanly. One day, he needs to put it out in a book, along with all the other things about magic he knows and can share. He's met everybody, knows everybody and, if you ask, him "hates magic". He even played the music for Dai Vernon's performance at a convention in the 70's. I know, cause I now own the letter from Vernon thanking him for it.

By the way, if you've never used or handled Jimmy Sanders' Color Changing Knives, you're missing the very best knives ever made for this effect. I'll never part with my last set!


Steve Thomas
Message: Posted by: steve j (Feb 4, 2005 04:58PM)
Bill Malone, whit hayden, and micheal skinner are a few people to check out, bill Malone gives that gimmick away in his routine which many don't agree with but they are all good.
Message: Posted by: rhinomax (Feb 5, 2005 08:15AM)
Whit I just bought IWOD what a great tape!!I have Mogars Stag Sensation but had a hard time following the routine, your tape will help greatly . Also recently I read Against Originality in the Magic Menu thank you for that it was an inspiring read

Topper
Message: Posted by: Whit Haydn (Feb 5, 2005 11:35PM)
[quote]
On 2005-02-05 09:15, rhinomax wrote:
Whit I just bought IWOD what a great tape!!I have Mogars Stag Sensation but had a hard time following the routine, your tape will help greatly . Also recently I read Against Originality in the Magic Menu thank you for that it was an inspiring read

Topper
[/quote]

You're welcome. Glad you enjoyed it.
Message: Posted by: Michael Bilkis (Feb 6, 2005 09:51AM)
I am going to add my recommendation for Whit's Intricate Web of Distraction. I do a variant of it. also have a set of the Bone Mogar Knives. The jigged handle makes gooing into and out of your pocket a no brainer. High marks for both!!

Michael
Message: Posted by: dlcmagic (Feb 6, 2005 11:06PM)
The Friedman Flip move from Whits routine is very nice.......
Message: Posted by: cigar808 (Feb 6, 2005 11:26PM)
Can't wait to get the DVD of Whit's routine.
Never been to the Castle to see him live.
This may be as close as I get.
Message: Posted by: magicandrew (Feb 13, 2005 05:06AM)
Ever heard of reflecto matic knife set.
Message: Posted by: paymerich (Feb 14, 2005 01:12PM)
Anyone ever use the Ronjo Color Changing Knives ??
Message: Posted by: rparmacek (Feb 16, 2005 10:55PM)
I have performed color changing knives for over forty years. I use Joe Mogar's knives and really like them. The finest routine using the knives IMHO is the routine Juan Tamariz does in one of the three videos of his giving several lessons. I think it is the first of the three videos. Juan uses a move called the ultra fast turnover. It is not a paddle move and it is very tough to make it look right, but when it is right it is awesome.. I remember mentioning to one of my magician friends that the move that Tamariz uses is darn near impossible. His remark to me was "for you it might be impossible, but for Tamariz it is no problem." I have been working on the ultra fast turnover for months and little by little I think I am beginning to make the move work. Then again I wonder when I am working in front of a mirror if I don't just shut my eyes at the critical second. Someday I will try it with a real spectator and then of course I will know. But the best routine for color changing knives, my vote is for Juan Tamariz.
Message: Posted by: Jim Sisti (Feb 17, 2005 07:57AM)
[quote]
On 2005-02-16 23:55, rparmacek wrote:
I have performed color changing knives for over forty years. I use Joe Mogar's knives and really like them. The finest routine using the knives IMHO is the routine Juan Tamariz does in one of the three videos of his giving several lessons. I think it is the first of the three videos.
[/quote]

Actually, the Tamariz color-changing knife routine is on his Stevens video -

http://www.stevensmagic.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=91

and you're right - it's one of those "knack" things. It'd does look great when Juan does it, though!
Message: Posted by: davidmagic (Feb 18, 2005 05:39PM)
I hope Howie Swatrzman does get his book put together. A few years ago I was privileged to spend the day with him up in the Baltimore area. He did a one-finger color change that was awesome and not that difficult.
David
Message: Posted by: Vibono Magic (Feb 19, 2005 12:41AM)
One of the best versions I think is the Neo knives by Dr. Masashi Neo of Japan. it can be found on stevens video the magic of japan.
Message: Posted by: Daniel Faith (Feb 21, 2005 04:04PM)
Another source that is worthy of mention is Daryl's on his "Fooler Droolers" series (#1 of 3). There is actually a lot of good stuff on those dvd's!
Message: Posted by: paymerich (Feb 23, 2005 04:09PM)
Daniel hit on I think one of the most underrated DVD series and that is Dary's Fooler Dooler , Maybe its the name that throws people off thinking it only a pub/bar/party Stunt or a betcha type video. Daryl has a lot of great routines including his CC knife in there.
Message: Posted by: JGDay_Entertainer (Mar 7, 2008 01:55PM)
I am from Memphis and I met Richard "Dick" Oakley in the early 80's. He was a great influence on my performance ability. His attitude towards "magic" and particularly "magicians" is rather harsh, to say the least. When asked, "why don't you perform anymore.. you should!!" He would growl back, "I hate magic!" .. or something to that flavor. Nevertheless, whenever I would drop in at The Fun Shop, or the other shop he sometimes positioned himself, he was never without something new to show me. We'd spend tons of "back n forth" time together. He was never without time to show how I could improve a handling of a trick.

I will never forget the first time I saw his version of the CC Knives routine. Took my breath away. I have a set of Sanders knives and use them in a very similar routine Richard used. The only two shops in Memphis that USED to sell magic, only have costumes for rent with mostly some gag gift items for sell. They've pretty much gone to online venues for selling magic items. So, finding Richard in a shop demonstrating some of the common tricks that he made an artform and pleasure to watch, (penny to dime, pyschic block, chinese sticks, etc) is probably gonna not happen.

Well, that's my Richard Oakley story. I still perform in the Nashville and MidSouth doing conventions and private corporate gigs. I owe 99% of my performance ability to Richard. Thanks!!
Message: Posted by: mrunge (Mar 7, 2008 03:44PM)
Welcome, JGDay, to the Café! I look forward to reading more posts in the future.

L&L Publishing just released another DVD in their Worlds Greatest Magic series on the Color Changing Knives. Among other routines included on this DVD is Daryl's routine. This looks like a nice addition to one's magic library if they do, or want to, perform the CC knife routine.

http://www.llpub.com/zenshop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2484

Mark.
Message: Posted by: bdekolta (Mar 15, 2008 12:27AM)
So what knives was the Bass Pro selling? Anybody know? Can the original poster put up a picture?
Message: Posted by: dbolan (Apr 2, 2008 12:13PM)
[quote]
L&L Publishing just released another DVD in their Worlds Greatest Magic series on the Color Changing Knives. Among other routines included on this DVD is Daryl's routine. This looks like a nice addition to one's magic library if they do, or want to, perform the CC knife routine.

http://www.llpub.com/zenshop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2484

[/quote]

Skip this one. I bought it after reading this post - and this is a disappointing DVD. The DVD is short and the best routing on it is Daryl's - and it requires a subsequent outlay for custom knives.

Dave