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Topic: Tenkai Problems
Message: Posted by: itexus (Feb 2, 2005 03:49PM)
Well, I simply cant hold a card in tenkai position to make it invisible for the spectator :(

I don't think I have that small hands. But I have tiny wrists..
Its goes a little better with the bridgesized cards.. but I want
to do it with the pokersized too..
Message: Posted by: BerkleyJL (Feb 2, 2005 03:57PM)
It's not so much the size of your hands or the cards, as it is the angle of your wrist. Tenkai is not a position to be taken lightly. The angles are murder. Another consideration is, you want to get in and out of Tenkai quickly and smoothly, and don't hang out for 10 minutes holding a card that way. It should be used for quick effects.

That said, make sure your spectators are looking at the back of your hand...your wrist should be straight but not parallel to the ground. It should be perpendicular to the line of sight of your spectator...About a 45-degree angle tilted toward your body if you and they are all standing.

Hope that helps...sometimes I can be confusing.
Message: Posted by: Ty (Feb 2, 2005 06:50PM)
I agree that Tenkai is tricky, it is hard to make your thumb look natural.
Message: Posted by: GeorgeSantos (Feb 2, 2005 09:31PM)
Just play with your angles and practice in front of a mirror to hit the angles perfectly every time you use the Tenkai.
Message: Posted by: Brad Burt (Feb 2, 2005 10:45PM)

The only tricky things about the Tenkai are the angles. Essentially, the far right angle is the worse and unless someone is laying on the ground looking up the only one for which you generally must adjust.

The grip is actually one of the easiest in card palming. Let's assume you will be doing it L.Handed. Hold your EMPTY left hand out in in front of your chest with the palm vertical to the floor and RELAXED. Notice that the thumb (unless you are deformed in some manner...I mean that seriously.) will be parallel to the Left First Finger. This IS the Tenkai position. The inward edge of the card will rest on and bisect the palm of the L.H. The outer long edge is held by the first bend of the L.Thumb. Whether a poker or bridge playing card or a business card the position is the same. I practice with Credit Cards while standing in grocery lines all the time.

IF there is one common problem it is that some want to hold the card in too tight a grip. You want to loosen up so the you are controlling the card with the minimum of pressure from the L.Thumb. The hand will naturally turn palm toward the floor as it takes actually turning the wrist outward to move it the other way, so the angle problem here will be from BENEATH the card. Adjust accordingly.

A great exercise is to hold the card and bring the first and second fingers in and take the card out of the palm and then flip it over and return it to the same place. The remove the card with the same two fingers and extend it to the R.H. which takes it with it's first and second fingers and palms it. Repeat this a zillion times while watching the 'game' on T.V., etc.

Another excellent practice is to work at removing a card into Tenkai from the top of the deck and replacing. These actions will set you up for most Tenkai work. BEst,

Brad Burt
Message: Posted by: itexus (Feb 3, 2005 06:34AM)
Berkley, the thing is that I can make it invisible, but the angle is so sensitive its frustrating.

Bradburt, thanks for the tips, I will try to exercise the ways you said. :)
Message: Posted by: silapmata (Feb 5, 2005 08:33AM)
I think Tenkai is still much easier than B.P.!
Message: Posted by: Hideo Kato (Feb 5, 2005 08:49AM)
Please call it 'Tenkai Palm'.

Hideo Kato
Message: Posted by: Joe Mauro (Feb 5, 2005 09:39AM)
The gamblers copy is a better palm, IMHO. Larry jennings was a mster at this. J.c. Wagner teaches it on one of his video tapes. Only one bad angle, as far as I can tell.
Message: Posted by: kid (Jan 4, 2006 08:41AM)
How do you tenkai palm?Post pics and links on how to do it!
Message: Posted by: Thoughtreader (Jan 5, 2006 11:02AM)
The easiest way (for me anyway) to get the basic grip is to hold the card face down (I use my right hand so adjust if you use the other) and I place the top of my forefinger on the bottom of the car, slightly to the right of the indice. The second finger goes on top of the card and my first finger almost as if the fingers are crossed. Now curl the fingers inward towards your palm and when the palm (thumb and side of the hand by the pinkie) take the card, release it from and straighten your fingers. Tenkai Palm.

PSIncerely Yours,
Paul Alberstat
Message: Posted by: Matt Malinas (Jan 5, 2006 11:24AM)
The tenkai is a very useful palm if mastered. I used it a a lot in my routines. I also like to use it for card productions. I include it in my ambitious card routine from time to time.
it just takes practice. I had the same angle problems when I learned it. try practicing in front of a mirror. try getting a carmera and filming yourself . study the angles and you'll be fine.
good luck

Message: Posted by: kid (Jan 5, 2006 02:52PM)
You didnot answer my question!How do you do the tenkai palm?
Message: Posted by: DomKabala (Jan 5, 2006 03:26PM)
Do yourself a favor and google tenkai palm...you will be surprised that you will have to purchase it...it's not free my man! BTW I do it well, but I paid for it like everyone else in this forum! Nothing in this world today is free eXcept the air you breathe!
:bikes: :bluebikes: :bikes:
Message: Posted by: Face (Jan 5, 2006 04:58PM)
What???? Just practice, and don't forget that the card can be bended also, when you palm it.
Message: Posted by: Keith Mitchell (Jan 21, 2007 04:03PM)
I have Ninja 2 from Ellusionist and saw how Brad Christian does it. He makes it look so easy, but when I tried it was hard to get the correct palming. I think it was difficult for me because of my dry hands/fingers. My dry fingers was having a hard time getting it in the correct position, so I tried wetting my fingers a bit and this seems to work.

Does this make sense?

Message: Posted by: Andy the cardician (Jan 24, 2007 04:39AM)
The Tenkai palm requires a substantial amount of practice to get it right. I would not compare it to the gambler's cop, as they are different in application and utilization.

I use a number of palms, depending on the situation, requirement and nature of the trick. The Tenkai palm is a very versatile move, and as Kato-san is in a much better position to recount some of its history and impact, I would appreciate his comment very much.
Message: Posted by: Hideo Kato (Jan 25, 2007 09:32AM)
Tenkai used Tenkai Palm mainly for satge or parlor act. So angle issue was not so difficult.

I remember Tenkai used tabel edge to cover angle when performing on table.

Also Tenkai's move was slow and stealing and unloading actions are seamless.

His performing style was "Talk with props which shows strange phenomenon" like Fred Kaps and Cardini, but more calm and gentle. His use of sleights had relation with his style.

Hideo Kato
Message: Posted by: Andy the cardician (Jan 25, 2007 09:43AM)
Thanks Kato-san,
do you know in what year he invented the move?

Message: Posted by: Hideo Kato (Jan 26, 2007 04:04AM)
I don't know.

I am sure it is between 1889 and 1972.

Hideo Kato
Message: Posted by: Andy the cardician (Jan 26, 2007 04:18AM)
Thanks Kato-san,

a very logical answer . . . appreciate it