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Topic: Cap Casino
Message: Posted by: Magicman1319 (Mar 3, 2005 01:58PM)
First off I am new to XCM.

I have C4 and am making pretty good progress. Is this a good starting point? Is this some of the harder stuff out there? Any info for a new kid would be helpful!!

Thanks in advance.
Message: Posted by: Chris Keppel (Mar 3, 2005 03:42PM)
Try the dan and dave system. Very nice stuff if you like caps style. Its also a cool dvd to watch with all the extras and such.
Message: Posted by: MISTER SINEP (Mar 3, 2005 04:19PM)
Cap Casino is way better than the buck twins ! He has bizillion packets. Get his DVDS at expert magic ! LOL

His stuff is the hardest that you can do. Stick with the best and not with the rest !

LMAO

Joe
Message: Posted by: ClouDsss (Mar 3, 2005 06:47PM)
IMO C4 is a good starting point cos it has a good teaching style. Over the shoulder View of the explanations. Cap Casino has another DVD called Recapped which is supposed to be a more advanced version of his C4. U might wanna take a look if you are interested in his stuff.

If you are really serious about XCM/Flourishes, you might wanna give the "Encyclopedia Of Playing Cards flourish" a look. Be prepared to fork out a large sum of money thou. Its a book and can be found at:

http://www.flourishman.com

You might wanna follow Chris's advise too as the System by Dan & Dave is cool! Has tons of cards ranging from beginner to the advanced. I highly recommend this. But be prepared as the teaching style might not be that good.

http://www.dananddave.com

Give Generation X by Brian Tudor a miss and wait for his Remake called Extreme Generation. Extreme Generation can be found at Penguin Magic but its still in the manufacturing process. Should be good stuff and the teaching (I hope) should have improved.

Subsequently you might wanna look at De'vo's stuff which is good too but some are honestly quite difficult. You might wannna get his Cradle To the Grave or Cobra Cut. The teaching style is good too with over the shoulder view and he goes through every move clearly. Wait for his Extreme Beginners if you want. Should be good

http://www.xtremehandz.com

PS: Give "Show Off With Cards" from Penguin Magic a miss cos I heard it really sucks.

hope this info helps

cheerios
Message: Posted by: 4Jacks (Mar 4, 2005 07:03AM)
[quote]
On 2005-03-03 19:47, ClouDsss wrote:
PS: Give "Show Off With Cards" from Penguin Magic a miss cos I heard it really sucks.
cheerios
[/quote]

I'll get dissed for saying this, but that's ok

But the show off with cards is $20 shipped on ebay, and it's worth it, cuase it's cheap and has a lot of moves on it.... even though the teaching isn't the greatest.
Message: Posted by: Jonas (Mar 4, 2005 09:49AM)
I heard from many people the Showoff with cards DVD is not great at all and I am in no way supporting it. But from looking at the Demo, the stuff in the demo looked quite nice. Sure, its not some new awesome flourish dude but there is still some stuff worth trying out. But yeah, about the crediting issue written before, That's bad. But probably the HL people have overdone it (I seriously cant say that anyone else started throwing dirt over the DVD, they got mad when he put up De'vos moves.) And people just followed along without really caring about WHAT is on the DVD.

I don't know, it might not be super awesome but I agree with 4J, for a twenty it can actually be quite ok.
Message: Posted by: 4Jacks (Mar 4, 2005 11:32AM)
It definitly shouldn't be you're only DVD.. but it is Okay..
I don't know about the politics or the crediting issues..

But it was my first Card DVD.
It has about 80 Different moves on it.
It shows all the moves slowly with an explanation, and then he does the moves
with glass packages so you can see through it.
He does each move an average of 3-4 times.

He doesn't explain fans worth Sh**
He didn't explain the sybil worth Sh**
But I finally got the sybil just from watching it over and over.
I still can't fan
And I think he calls moves different names.
The EoPCF "Scissor Cut" is called a "Hatchet" cut.
So I have no clue if the other moves are named correctly.

Fortunatly I just recieved my EoPCF from Jerry.
I would really recommend spending the $75 on the EoPCF FIRST !!!
It is soo Packed with information.
I also got the Companion DVD with the EoPCF, I like it, but I wish there were a verbal explanation with the demonstations, and also, Jerry only performs the moves once, so if you are viewing the DVD to Learn the trick, you have to set a repeat point and loop it.. But like it says, it is a "Companion" DVD, and it goes well with the EoPCF.
Message: Posted by: CardConjurer (Mar 4, 2005 12:26PM)
If what you mainly want to do is cuts then sure get all the stuff they said. but if you are interested in exploring all the divisions of card manipulation do yourself a favor and get McBrides Art of Card Manipulation videos. Yes they do have lots of stuff on productions, but they videos alos have a very good basis for regualr manipulation

Another thing to definetely obtain is The encyclopedia of Playing cad Flourishes from Jerry. This will give you enough material to last a lifetime of practice, which is why it is essential, and worth 10 times the price.


Also be on the lookout for De'vo and Jerry's new DVD Xtreme beginers, which will include EVERYTHING you need to get started, and then some.
Message: Posted by: SniperX (Mar 8, 2005 08:16AM)
Show Off with cards is the worst DVD I have ever had.Robb Stiff is slow and teaching sucks too.
Message: Posted by: 4Jacks (Mar 8, 2005 09:45AM)
[quote]
On 2005-03-08 09:16, SniperX wrote:
Show Off with cards is the worst DVD I have ever had.Robb Stiff is slow and teaching sucks too.
[/quote]

Hey Welcome to the Boards Sniper,
So what about the DVD did you exactly not like
that makes You say the teaching sucks?
I think most of the most that he shows, he teaches pretty well
in his explanations and in using the glass packets.
The problems I've seen with it are stated above.
Message: Posted by: Brickster (Mar 8, 2005 02:43PM)
Try to learn how to fan from that DVD 4J, not going to happen.
Message: Posted by: 4Jacks (Mar 8, 2005 02:57PM)
[quote]
On 2005-03-04 12:32, 4Jacks wrote:
He doesn't explain fans worth Sh**
[/quote]

As I said, it has it's flaws, but it's worth $20
Message: Posted by: JeremiahZuo (Mar 8, 2005 03:40PM)
I can't believe anyone would buy Showoff with cards. Anyone supporting what Rob Stiff does clearly is missing something. So should I be able to take Vernon, Marlo, and Slydini's work, ut it all into a dvd while being uncapable of performing the material? And just because the material on the dvd is good that makes it worth it?

I'm disgusted.

Showoff With Cards was not worth 20 $ Rob couldn't adequetly perform the beautiful items that he stole, which he did in fact STEAL. Should he be rewarded for this?

I'm not just jumping on the hate Rob Stiff wagon, I'm personally sickened by what he does. Stealing work from people I respect so like Anders Moden and Lee Asher! Not to mention so many others! I don't give jack about De'vo and his cult. I'm not blindly hating here. I do care what's on the dvd. And NONE of it belonged to Rob.
Message: Posted by: 4Jacks (Mar 8, 2005 07:54PM)
[quote]
On 2005-03-08 16:40, JeremiahZuo wrote:
I can't believe anyone would buy Showoff with cards. Anyone supporting what Rob Stiff does clearly is missing something. So should I be able to take Vernon, Marlo, and Slydini's work, ut it all into a dvd while being uncapable of performing the material? And just because the material on the dvd is good that makes it worth it?

I'm disgusted.

Showoff With Cards was not worth 20 $ Rob couldn't adequetly perform the beautiful items that he stole, which he did in fact STEAL. Should he be rewarded for this?

I'm not just jumping on the hate Rob Stiff wagon, I'm personally sickened by what he does. Stealing work from people I respect so like Anders Moden and Lee Asher! Not to mention so many others! I don't give jack about De'vo and his cult. I'm not blindly hating here. I do care what's on the dvd. And NONE of it belonged to Rob.
[/quote]

Like I said before, I don't know about the crediting issues and who invented the moves.
I do know that on the DVD practically NO ONE is credited.
It's still unfair to call the man a thief.
In order to steal something, Somebody has to OWN something to steal.
A Card Flourish is not an Ownable piece of property.
If I put out a Dance instructional Video on how to dance
I would hope people would not call me a thief for not giving a portion
of my proceeds to Vanilla Ice for developing the "Running Man"

I'm only comparing the people you admire to Vanilla Ice in jest.

But the fact remains the Same. The reason that you feel so strongly about
this issue is becuase you're deeply involved in it. If you stand back and
look at the facts. No one STOLE anything, Some Major Crediting Issues were
overlooked, but that does not effect the value of the DVD to a new person
like myself. If you want to make the statement that People should not buy
this dvd becuase the maker is immoral. Then say it clearly, don't state that
he is a thief.
Message: Posted by: JeremiahZuo (Mar 8, 2005 11:01PM)
Then clearly you aren't familiar with magic. In magic when you take a move and give the appearance that it's yours, then you've STOLEN it. That's always what it's been. I have no idea where you get the notion that moves can't be stolen.

And you can steal dance choreagraphy, that's a terrible analogy! Let's say a famous choreagrapher put together a piece, I took said piece, made an instructional video on how to do it. That would certainly be stealing, and it would be recognized as stealing!

Rob Stiff is immoral because he's a theif! To say he never stole anything?! You've just insulted/slapped in the face the victims of his theft. Ask them what they think of their moves being stolen.
Message: Posted by: kxxcheng (Mar 9, 2005 12:01AM)
4Jacks, theft is not limited to concrete objects. Surely you've heard of intellectual property theft, identity theft, etc.

If you can still dream of marshmallows and teddy bears at night after supporting a plagiarist, then by all means, knock yourself out.

/pirates thousands of $$ of music
/ignore above statement if you can get me in trouble
Message: Posted by: Jonas (Mar 9, 2005 01:45AM)
I might have heard wrong but from what I have heard from MANY differeny sources is that if another person has published a move, it is ok for you to publish it as well without crediting it. (But if you want to look good, crediting is better.)

So I am not saying Rob did a good job, I'm just saying Rob didn't rob anyone, there is no laws to break. And everyone knows that those 3 moves or whatever it was are De'vos anyway, don't they? He advertises his stuff so well on the net with all accounts, people know already anyway.

So Rob is not fooling anyone.
Message: Posted by: 4Jacks (Mar 9, 2005 06:30AM)
[quote]
On 2005-03-09 01:01, kxxcheng wrote:
4Jacks, theft is not limited to concrete objects. Surely you've heard of intellectual property theft, identity theft, etc.
[/quote]

that's EXACTLY my point! Card Flourishes are protected by those laws. As far as I know, Vanilla Ice's Dance moves Aren't either. As far as stealing a whole dance routine, I'm pretty sure it's still not covered by any laws.

And I'm not agree'ing with it! I'm not saying it's okay to not credit someone else when you used borrowed material, dance, cards or whatever else isn't covered by any laws.

All I'm saying is that "It's not breaking any laws"

[quote]
On 2005-03-09 00:01, JeremiahZuo wrote:
Then clearly you aren't familiar with magic. In magic when you take a move and give the appearance that it's yours, then you've STOLEN it. That's always what it's been. I have no idea where you get the notion that moves can't be stolen.
[/quote]

Iíve already stated that I am a Hobbyist and not a professional. And why should it be that any person out there that wants to learn magic has to learn some code of conduct that transcends the actual law?
I got the notion that moves canít be stolen, because they are not protected by any laws.
Thatís where I got the notion.

[quote]
On 2005-03-09 01:01, kxxcheng wrote:
If you can still dream of marshmallows and teddy bears at night after supporting a plagiarist, then by all means, knock yourself out.
[/quote]

This is awful, Here I am advocating, some dude I donít know who threw together a cheesy DVD that I bought off ebay because it was the cheapest and most readily available. Now I look like some immoral little *****, because Iím telling people to buy his DVD when there are people out there who are seriously offended by his actions.

To tell you the truth I couldnít care less about this Rob Stiff guy or the People he ďStoleĒ his material from. And Yes I can still sleep at night in my Marshmallow PJís hugging my Teddy Bear. <How she knew that I donít know>

But the reason I donít care is because Iím not involved in magic like you guys are. I read this forum, do a few tricks for my family and friends, and I really really like cards, that is the extent of it. I canít sympathize with you over having material that is not protected by laws stolen. I make my living off of Civil Engineering, and if I design something, and somebody steals it, I can sue the heck out of them. And when I design a project using someone elseís stuff, they get paid a lot of money. (Clientís money not mine.)

But as much as I donít know, Have no sympathy, and Iím just an evil horrible human being. I do know that harassing every new person that wants to get involved with magic/cards and buys the first cheap DVD they see on eBay, is NOT the correct way of doing things, and will only bring more grief than good.

Jeremiah, if you feel so strongly about the rights of magicians and card flourishers, than you should contact a lawyer and see how you can start to have there moves protected by intellectual property laws. And I will sign your petition and Iím sure you will have the support of a lot of magician.
Message: Posted by: JeremiahZuo (Mar 9, 2005 06:58AM)
I'm not saying it's agaisnt the law! There is no legal action that can be taken, that much is obvious.

But we're talking within the magic community, it is considered stealing. And you are part of the magic community are you not? I just reread your post and it seems you don't' consider yourself so. So then I have another question why are you giving advice with your level of knowlege?
Message: Posted by: rudess (Mar 9, 2005 07:12AM)
[quote]why are you giving advice with your level of knowlege?[/quote]

Cause most of the people here do that too.
Message: Posted by: 4Jacks (Mar 9, 2005 10:01AM)
[quote]
On 2005-03-09 07:58, JeremiahZuo wrote:
I'm not saying it's agaisnt the law! There is no legal action that can be taken, that much is obvious.

But we're talking within the magic community, it is considered stealing. And you are part of the magic community are you not? I just reread your post and it seems you don't' consider yourself so. So then I have another question why are you giving advice with your level of knowlege?
[/quote]

Youíre Right, I wouldnít really consider myself as part of the magic community.
I like to word Hobbyist. Itís uncommitted.

Itís not my intention to give advice, being as self admitted novice.
My intentions are to give a consumer review. Iím a newbie, I purchased the DVD, I thought it was a worth while purchase, I listed what I like and didnít like about the DVD.
What better source is there for a Newbie interested in buying the same DVD?

As far as me giving you the advice to start a petition to set up intellectual property rights for magicians. I donít believe that I need to be a professional magician to give that advice. I would need to be a lawyer. But Iím not that either!

My point was, it is unfair to judge hobbyists and new magicians to an unwritten internal code of conduct.

In the last post where this DVD came up, you blatantly called me a thief for purchasing this thing off of eBay. How was I suppose to know that there was an unwritten internal code of magical conduct that this DVD was severely breaking and that by my purchase I would also be associated with that and looked down upon on this forum??

No one ever sent me a memo!?

Am not saying that a Code of Conduct isnít necessary, and Iím not saying it is unfair. But the ďMagic CommunityĒ is not a club that you sign up for. You donít read through the terms and conditions and sign your name on the line, then all of a sudden youíre in group! But it is unfair to put down a new person for actions taken and quote a code of conduct that is not tangible.

Of course now it seems like Iím say. ďWell, I bought the DVD, not know about the code of conduct. Iíve now found out about the Code of Conduct. But Iím still going to recommend the DVD to people and say forget about the Code of Conduct.Ē

And thatís not really want I want to say!

The way I see things are like this.
The DVD made a huge mistake and didnít Credit Anybody.
I think that is Wrong.
But the DVD is already out, I donít think they are going to revise it, it is what it is.
I think it is a good value for the $20 it costs and I think new people should consider buying it, but they should also realize the mistake that the producer made.
Message: Posted by: Jordini (Mar 9, 2005 10:17AM)
I think this topic needs to degenerate to a discussion on coffee and pastries much like the Tudor gambling thread.
Message: Posted by: JeremiahZuo (Mar 9, 2005 10:56AM)
Hold the phone 4jacks, I never called you a theif. The only person I called a theif was Rob Stiff.
Message: Posted by: 4Jacks (Mar 9, 2005 11:13AM)
I'm sorry Jeremiah, It was not you who called me a thief, it was in flames.
I apologize. I guess I just recalled you're name from the other thread, and I didn't take the time to look back and see what was what.
Message: Posted by: Jordini (Mar 9, 2005 11:34AM)
You can only edit a post, posted in the last 30 mins, and it has to be the last post. (If someone posts after you, you can't edit anymore). No longer can you change anything, the truth will FOREVER REMAIN which is why you need to pick your words C.a.r.e.f.u.l.l.y)
Message: Posted by: 4Jacks (Mar 9, 2005 11:59AM)
*COUGH*ghetto*COUGH*

I'm j/k it's not that bad of a policy, sucks for me though, cause I'm constantly mispelling words and getting stuff mixed up.
Message: Posted by: MnemonicaRedux (Mar 10, 2005 03:13AM)
[quote]
On 2005-03-09 11:01, 4Jacks wrote:

I think it is a good value for the $20 it costs and [b]I think new people should consider buying it[/b], but they should also realize the mistake that the producer made.
[/quote]

Scenario:
I go to a new restaurant that has just opened around the block, having heard a good deal about the food there. Looking through the menu, I realise that there are quite a decent amount of items availible on the menu, and finally decide to spend my money on the $20 "everything" burger combo meal. It tastes pretty decent, and I feel that my money's been well spent. The next day, I bring a friend along to the restaurant for a meal, and I tell him that the burger I had yesterday was quite yummy. He looks at me in shock, and tells me, "you actually had that sh!t? Dude, not only is that thing the worst item on the menu, it actually has mouth cancer-causing ingredients... didn't anyone tell you that??!". So now I'm doomed to spend the rest of my life eating in bitter, torturous pain.

The moral of the story is:
Showoff with Cards might be appealing to the new guys, but by teaching them the wrong technques(cancer-causing ingredients), the rest of their flourishing lives will be affected (mouth cancer). There's no way to stop them from buying it, but by advocating it... you're hurting them. That's why you're under flak, dude... just hope this sorta clears it up.

-Kev
Message: Posted by: fingerjack (Mar 10, 2005 05:15AM)
SHOWOFF WITH CARDS causes mouth cancer? Oh, nevermind, I see it was the cheesburger.

Wait a sec, cheeseburgers cause mouth cancer? And to think I quit smoking.
Message: Posted by: 4Jacks (Mar 10, 2005 07:54AM)
Dude, you have a very hazy Interpretation of the word Clear!

But the story was amusing!

Allow me to paraphrase what youíre saying.

ďThe Video Teaches incorrect Methods. Itís not just Poor Teaching, Itís teaching the wrong Stuff, Like going to Law school to Learn MedicineĒ

Was that somewhat accurate ???
If that is what youíre saying, then that hasnít been said before!!!
If It is True, then I agree, People should not Buy the DVD.
But what is it teaching incorrectly??
Have you actually watched the DVD and were able to say, that is not the correct way to do that??
Thatís what I want to know.
Iím not very far along in going through the EoPCF yet. Iíve got school killing me now, so I havenít picked up a deck in a few days.
But I did find one really big difference.
The EoPCF teaches the Three packet Charlier cut as sticking the top packet in a split in the bottom packet.
The Show Off DVD teaches the Three Packet Charlier got as breaking the top packet in two, letting the top slide down to your fingers and under the bottom packet, then complete the Charlier.
You have to actually have seen it to know what Iím talking about, Iím not that good at explaining it.

I think itís a matter of the two cuts just being two different cuts. Not that One is Wrong or one is Correct. And I must Say that I really like the method on the DVD much better. Jerry even says in the EoPCF that he doesnít like when packets are split with other packets, but his version of the 3 packet Charlier is pretty close to that, (The split is created with your finger not with the cards, but itís very late in the cut) Anyway the cut on the DVD just looks better and it shuffles the cards better, in Jerryís version the bottom packet remains the bottom. (Not that that is always a bad thing)

So I just think they are two different cuts.

So can you list an example of the DVD teaching the wrong method, versus the correct method??
Message: Posted by: MnemonicaRedux (Mar 10, 2005 09:00AM)
By the mouth cancer causing pain during future eating periods analogy, I meant that learning the incorrect methods would hinder the progress of other certain flourishes based on that move.

FOR EXAMPLE:
The Flipback. Rob teaches it by doing it straight from the straddle grip. "So what, Kev? Works for me... just because he teaches it wrongly doesn't mean the flourish is invalid". But think about this: During the Flipback FAN, the thumb is required to help fan the cards, but because the index finger was used to get the cards on the back of the hand, the cards are in a less advantageous position to contact the thumb, it results in a fan with an angle 90 degrees less than it should be. Because one minor detail was incorrectly taught, your flipback fans will now look like a pizza slice. Not very cool, if you ask me. "But Kev... Rob doesn't even teach the flipback fan, so why should these newcomers have to worry about one stupid little detail taught wrongly?". NOW you know why he doesn't teach it... his incorrect handling has rendered him unable to get it down decently.

4jacks, I'm not trying to stir up sh!t, but I'm attempting to explain why I'm against the thought of introducing the DVD to people as a learning source. Sure, there's no way to stop people from buying it, but encouraging them to do so isn't any better. I hope I'm less hazy now :P

Oh, and yeah... this topic needs to lighten up a bit.

[img]http://webzoom.freewebs.com/mredux/destroyerofworlds.jpg[/img]

-Kev
Message: Posted by: 4Jacks (Mar 10, 2005 11:30AM)
HEY ! A guy at the Office has that Same Doggy on his wall and the Caption Reads.. "If Looks Could Kills"

Kev, that made the most sense out of any of the other post! I completely see what your saying, and I completely agree. If he is teaching the same cut the wrong way then it's just crap! My example was two seperate cuts. But now that you pointed out the flib back, His plain jane Charlier cut is just wrong, cuase for some odd reason he tells you to push the bottom packet with your middle finger. And you just can't use your middle finger with any other variation of that cut. It's just Crap. I kinda just overlooked it and said, just use your friggin index finger. But you're right, he's teaching newbies that Crap.. and it's Crap!

That's just what I needed, a solid example of poor quality material on the DVD, and not just someone blasting the producer of the DVD.

In light of Kev's arguement I am retracting my Previous Statement. Newbies shouldn't buy this crap.

I'm friggin PO'ed now.. I spent $20 on this Crap. and I'll never be able to do a flipback fan!!!! Plus I'm going to Get Friggin MOUTH CANCER.. and the X gurl told everyone about my PJ's and Teddy Bear!!!
I WANT MY FRIGGIN MONEY BACK!!
Message: Posted by: fingerjack (Mar 10, 2005 03:11PM)
I think you guys beat it into him. This topic has already been discussed anyhow: http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=91643&forum=73&28

Yes, I have seen the DVD. Bottom line? You get what you pay for.
Message: Posted by: ClouDsss (Mar 10, 2005 07:07PM)
Hence I would conclude to say that beginners should refer to my recommendations given in the 4th Post of this Thread. :banana: :pepper: :cucumber:

PEACE! :righton:
Message: Posted by: liltut (Mar 12, 2005 03:23PM)
OK, I'm sorta new to the whole XMC thing....... But you guys sure do complain about stupid stuff! you sound like my girlfriend. If something is taught wrong (such as the flipback), I change finger positioning and handlings..... such as Showoff... he teaches you to use your index and pinky. No! I'm only 15 so I have smaller hands. I use my pinky and thumb, because it doesn't hurt. Is this wrong? Am I to burn in ........ because I do things my way?
Message: Posted by: SirPoBoy (Mar 13, 2005 01:54AM)
Pardon me, I have just been busy and am starting to post in the forums more now since I've gotten some business out of the way now.

[quote]
On 2005-03-12 16:23, liltut wrote:
OK, I'm sorta new to the whole XMC thing....... But you guys sure do complain about stupid stuff! you sound like my girlfriend. If something is taught wrong (such as the flipback), I change finger positioning and handlings..... such as Showoff... he teaches you to use your index and pinky. No! I'm only 15 so I have smaller hands. I use my pinky and thumb, because it doesn't hurt. Is this wrong? Am I to burn in ..... because I do things my way?
[/quote]

I don't think you'd burn in ....., but I consider it just the wrong technique. It is the proper way to do it, and if you don't want to do it that way, fine, suit yourself, it's just more respectable and proper to execute the right technique. There's a reason to these methods, it's all up to you if you'd like to follow them or not. For example if I were to pitch a baseball and follow through, which means to bend your body so the baseball can be at a lower angle when you throw it, that is considered the right and proper way to throw a baseball. But if I wanted to be like my friend who did not want to follow through because he thought it didn't really matter and get hit in the nose with the baseball, then fine. As I have said previously, there's a reason to the right methods, it all up to you on whether you'd like to do it right or wrong in your case. Please learn it from the originator, not the duplicator. The flipback is on De'vo's DVD, Cradle to Grave, the right technique is on there, if you'd like to learn it, then go right ahead, I recommend the DVD highly.

P.S.: About the follow through story. It was a true story and my friend didn't follow what his coach was saying so when the ball hit his nose, it broke and he went to the ambulance and everything. It just goes to show you, if you don't want to follow through, then have it your way.

SirPoBoy
Message: Posted by: MnemonicaRedux (Mar 13, 2005 02:14AM)
Wow, very nice analogy, SirPoBoy... I think I'll use it to explain to people in real life why they should do things the right way. I'll credit you, though :D

-Kev
Message: Posted by: 4Jacks (Mar 14, 2005 06:08AM)
How did your friend get hit in the noise throwing a baseball? You mean that batter hit the ball and hit him in the noise? I'm not coming down on you, I just don't know too much about baseball, but I can't see how it would matter if the pitcher threw the ball a little higher or lower, Whether or not he gets hit in the nose would depend on how the batter actually hit the ball. Beside that, shouldn't he of caught the dang on ball, or at least try? That's why they got a glove right.

Anyhoo I view the whole cards thing like this. It's all about empirical knowledge, if somebody has put the time and effort into something to discover the optimal way of doing it, then you want to jump on that manís back and use his knowledge to the best of your ability. Iíll break it down in math, If some genius a long time ago came up with a formula for a particular problem. The first thing you do in math class is go over how he got that formula, he probably went through a lot of differential equations and all sorts of other junk, just to get this tiny easy formula for you to use, The rest of the class you only use his easy formula. Well if you want to go through everything he went through for every problem you have in the future, you are more than welcome to, but you are a lot more likely to have an error along the way, then you will go straight to hell, where you will be pelted with baseballs for eternity.
Message: Posted by: liltut (Mar 16, 2005 07:00PM)
I see what your saying with the baseball, but, what about submarine style pitchers and side arm pitchers? Isn't all I'm really doing is pitching side arm? I'm still throwing, but, just a little different

And bedsides, I'm already going to ..... I don't like The Beatles. Or Zeppelin, Or Van Halen. Or The Stones... See you guys there!
Message: Posted by: Lots-O-Packets (Mar 25, 2005 09:24PM)
[quote]
On 2005-03-08 15:57, 4Jacks wrote:
[quote]
On 2005-03-04 12:32, 4Jacks wrote:
He doesn't explain fans worth Sh**
[/quote]

As I said, it has it's flaws, but it's worth $20
[/quote]
I agree, I own it and I learn quite a bit from it, so it was worth the $20. But next I'm moving on to Cap Casino's dvd's.
Message: Posted by: Lots-O-Packets (Mar 27, 2005 08:03PM)
[quote]
On 2005-03-03 19:47, ClouDsss wrote:

You might wanna follow Chris's advise too as the System by Dan & Dave is cool! Has tons of cards ranging from beginner to the advanced. I highly recommend this. But be prepared as the teaching style might not be that good.
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Could you please elaborate on how the teaching might not be as good. I did some research and it says it has slow motion and differnet angles. The System is the DVD I'm leaning toward getting right now. I'm not new to flourishing, so do you think that the teaching style would effect me. I bought "Showoff with Cards" awhile ago and some of the stuff I improvised on alittle bit because I didn't understand the explanation. So how good or bad is the teaching style can you describe it? And would you recommend it for a somewhat advanced flourisher? Thanks a lot
Message: Posted by: kxxcheng (Mar 28, 2005 12:23AM)
If you have windows, there is a program that you can download that will flip the screen upside down and give you an over the shoulder view (more info in the System Vault). In my opinion, that, with continous looping, is more than you need. I was a complete newbie (as far as cuts were concerned) when I got the system too. The only prior knowledge I'd say you need is to know how to do a charlier and OHR. I got confused at times, sure, but nothing takes that long to figure out. I don't think you'd have any problems with The System, it's a good purchase.
Message: Posted by: Jonas (Mar 28, 2005 07:37AM)
I agree with Karen, it cant take that uber long to figure the cuts out.

I heard a few people say they have no idea at all how to do Genesis as they don't know where any packet goes at all.

I find that weird, I learnt that cut by watching it done in full speed (Nope, I didn't slow it down.)
®
The stuff you need to know is OHR and standard Sybil moves.

Charlier isn't really used much in the system as far as I know, onlt in 2 cuts now when I can think about it.

But when you know OHR, you almost have to know Charlier, or its very weird.

Its a nice DVD with nice stuff included. The problem people had though is that the teaching is just slow motion performances of the cuts, no text or speaking or stuff with it.

But you will learn everything if you struggle. The only thing I have left to make look good is Revolution Erdnase.
Message: Posted by: Lots-O-Packets (Mar 28, 2005 08:11PM)
Alright thanks you two, I appreciate your opinions. I think I'm ready to get this DVD. I meet your qualifications, in fact I was just inventing/playing around with a sybil flouish with 8 packets, not sure if it's been done but I think its a cool flourish. I call it the ultimate blind sybil, cause the finger positions are like the BRS only it doesn't rotate. Thanks again.
Message: Posted by: cap casino (Nov 15, 2013 04:37PM)
Mad love to all my fans worldwide.

I have been crazy busy going to college and also performing in Vegas the last few years.

I have a few exciting projects for my fellow magi coming out this summer.

I will try to spend more time on the Cafť. So I can help people better learn my philosophy and master for themselves the world's most kick-ass card techniques.

This time lets not let discussion degenerate into a bunch of pretentious hysterical feuding cults but rather together as one creative family just try to push the art forward.

-CC