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Topic: Chinese water bowl illusion
Message: Posted by: Allan (Mar 8, 2005 06:46PM)
I am try to find out anything about the (very old) Chinese water bowls effect(non gimmicked). Basically the magician dips one bowl into the other and scoops up some water. As the bowls are swirled, water overflows. The bowls continue to overflow as the bowls are swirled and swirled. You also drink from the bowls. No matter how much you drink and swirl out water, the bowls always seem to remain full and overflowing.

Have the bowls but can't remember the routine or presentation. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Please lead me to the correct write up's. Seem to remember that it was written up but can't remember where.
Message: Posted by: hugmagic (Mar 8, 2005 08:37PM)
It is written up in the Sam Sharpe trilogy published by Mickey Hades. I think it is called Conjuroers Principles liquids etc.

It takes a good actor like Jeff McBride to pull it off.
Message: Posted by: Michael Baker (Mar 8, 2005 10:34PM)
[quote]It takes a good actor like Jeff McBride to pull it off.[/quote]
...and boy does he pull it off!
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Mar 8, 2005 11:47PM)
This trick lay dormant for many years until a Polish magician named Assan revived it in his work in beer gardens in Munich. Zauber Zantrale München issued a version of it. I translated the instructions for them. If I can find a copy of the instructions I'll see about sending them to you.

I saw Assan perform this many times while I was in Munich.
Message: Posted by: irossall (Mar 9, 2005 06:26AM)
[quote]
On 2005-03-08 21:37, hugmagic wrote:
It takes a good actor like Jeff McBride to pull it off.
[/quote]
It was "Poetry In Motion" when Jeff McBride performed this beautiful effect. It was my favorite part of the show. After each production of more water, Jeff McBride would gently tap the bowls together and produced the most beautiful ringing sound which really added to the effect.
Iven :patty:
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Mar 9, 2005 11:32AM)
I have this in print in a German publication.

Cas Boxley, in Oakland, Calif., used to do a great version he called "Mo Wata" using ordinary tea cups.

No question, McBride has taken it to another level. An artistic one.

If you can't do it justice... don't do it.
Message: Posted by: bobser (Sep 18, 2008 07:05AM)
[quote]
On 2005-03-09 00:47, Bill Palmer wrote:
This trick lay dormant for many years until a Polish magician named Assan revived it in his work in beer gardens in Munich. Zauber Zantrale München issued a version of it. I translated the instructions for them. If I can find a copy of the instructions I'll see about sending them to you.
I saw Assan perform this many times while I was in Munich.
[/quote]
Hi Bill, I see I can't pm you (not sure why) but I was wondering if either you can pm me or if someone can contact Bill. This is the Chinese waterball effect and I'd very much like to get my hands on a copy.

regards,

bobser

Posted: Sep 18, 2008 10:07am
The above of course is actually called The Chinese 'Waterbowl' effect. sorry.
Message: Posted by: Vick (Oct 13, 2010 09:52PM)
If there was a god

Sam Sharpe would be gods name

The books most needed to be read, can be obtained by few and understood by fewer

The Waterbowl effect is one of the most beautiful
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Oct 13, 2010 11:36PM)
The reason you can't PM me is that I turned off my private messaging. I did this because every time someone rediscovers my Scotch and Soda routine, my message box fills up. So, you are going to have to figure out how to e-mail me.

Hint -- look at my profile.
Message: Posted by: BryanKelly (Jul 24, 2011 02:57PM)
Does anyone know where I can purchase a set of these? Yes, I've searched a lot :/
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jul 24, 2011 08:25PM)
They are not available ANYWHERE. The German production was extremely limited.

Assan made his own bowls.
Message: Posted by: bowers (Oct 11, 2011 08:05PM)
Hocus pocus has a set of water bowls.
on their hot list right now.dont know if this is the set
that you want or not.
Message: Posted by: Tregar (Oct 12, 2011 12:39AM)
Saw a version here, but much more pricier than Hocus-Pocus.

http://www.siam-magic.com/product_detail.php?pid=54
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Oct 12, 2011 11:31AM)
I seriously doubt that these would work at all. The real ones are not hemispherical. They look like it, but the dimensions are slightly "off."
Message: Posted by: magicjluc (Apr 19, 2015 06:49AM)
A French magician named Mimosa (2nd price FISM comedy magic 1991) do a fantastic version of it with regular chinese bowl. I performed with him for a couple of month and couldn't stop watching him doing it. He published it in French in a book call "Magie sans artifice"...but it haven't been translated.
Message: Posted by: Maddies Ghost (Sep 8, 2017 06:14PM)
Just to bump this,Jeff McBride performed this on Penn and Teller Fool Us Thursday. I want sure what was happening but again Penn and Teller claimed to be fooled. By what I have no idea.
https://youtu.be/f9PL-uhjG5U
Message: Posted by: smike (Sep 9, 2017 04:20AM)
The trick didn't translate to TV very well. It also rankles me when P&T award a trophy to someone not because of the trick, but because of their reputation. It demand them and the show.
Message: Posted by: MeetMagicMike (Sep 9, 2017 01:15PM)
McBride's water bowl illusion is one that just doesn't do it for me. Even when I saw him do this live a convention I just didn't see any magic. I think he got a standing ovation so I'm in the minority. I suspect that it's just one of those routines where the effect is not strong on its own but the "Theater" elevates it for a lot of people.

This particular Fool Us episode was odd because there were two tricks were P & T said there was no "trick" (The water bowls and the dice stacking" but they declared that the water bowls fooled them and the dice didn't. Confirming that "Fool Us" isn't to be taken literally.

That's ok with me. It's a great show.
Message: Posted by: JNeal (Sep 9, 2017 04:01PM)
This exact subject... of as to whether P and T were 'fooled' has been discussed in the illusion section of the fora.
This show can not be taken literally.. First and foremost it is a reality SHOW, not a REALITY show. the emphasis is on SHOW.
Like other reality shows, it's relationship to being real is subject to the whims of the producers.

As has been noted, they tend to reward their friends and other notable names in magic with a "FU" award and the decision is arbitrary.

BTW- this trick was written up in Genii Magazine (in Loyd's column?) circa 1964-65 and is listed under the title More Water by Harry Mendoza... using tea cups
Message: Posted by: Eugene Chekhov (Sep 10, 2017 12:01PM)
I think that if Jeff had not given them a cup in their hands, they would have been exactly fooled!
Awesome illusion - I do not understand why many do not like this? Magic is diverse, I'm glad that such great ideas find a new life in the 21st century.
You can find the secret on the pages of many books - a description of 1 page.
Only a genius can take a dry text - and turn it into an illusion.
Magicians stopped looking for a philosophy in art.
Jeff is one of the best things I've seen in magic. :applause:
More Water by Harry Mendoza
Perhaps someone remembers the exact issue of the magazine. It would be interesting to read this. Jonathan thank you for sharing the link! :readingbook:
Message: Posted by: MeetMagicMike (Sep 10, 2017 03:08PM)
It's not so much that I don't like the effect I just don't see any effect. At no point am I surprised that there is still water in the bowl. I'm not trying to be a smart alec I just don't see the effect.
Message: Posted by: Eugene Chekhov (Sep 10, 2017 03:33PM)
Dear Mike!
Your words are also true! I agree. Here are my thoughts.
But I take into account that this is an effect from the area of juggling that originated as I think in the east, this is not a trick in the classic understanding of the word, but an illusion.
In the east (China) were very fond of and loved - tricks and juggling with water.
If you look at traditional magic in China, then certainly this will not fooled the professional magician.
This is a special theatrical - street genre.
I think if P & T - not working with Jeff they would be 100% cheated.
I'm sure their first thought * prop *.
Does anyone know where I can see the routine of Rocco?
Message: Posted by: Tudormagic (Sep 11, 2017 08:06AM)
This routine is also in the Cellini Book, called the Infinity Cups.
Message: Posted by: Eugene Chekhov (Sep 11, 2017 09:27AM)
I know 5 sources - where is the description of the routine.
I heard that Rocco does a decent routine, maybe someone saw it live? :dice:
Message: Posted by: Josh Burch (May 18, 2018 04:47PM)
I saw Rocco perform his water bowls live in Salt Lake City last year as part of his full show. I know it's blasphemy but I prefer it to Jeff's. Jeff's is a little weird to me, it feels like he's a mime pretending to receive water from the heavens. With Rocco's there was less theater and more magic. It didn't feel like Rocco was pretending, it was just a fact that the water was coming from the sky, there was no other explanation.

It's completely possible that I'm looking at this from the wrong perspective but Jeff's presentation seems a bit silly and hard to believe. Rocco made me believe.

I'll stop here as I'm afraid I've slain a sacred cow...
Message: Posted by: GlennLawrence (May 22, 2018 02:06PM)
Josh I happen to agree, I've seen Jeff do this a few times and I still just don't get the appeal. It's like "OK I get it, endless water coming from the bowls" but after a minute or 2 of the same thing it becomes tedious. I have the same reaction to guys who do endless card productions, after 20 or 30 I just want it to end.

Glenn
Message: Posted by: EndersGame (Jun 26, 2018 04:04PM)
The performance of Jeff McBride on Fool Us was very theatrical, but it is hard to believe that Penn and Teller were unfamiliar with this routine and were genuinely fooled.

Perhaps that is the illusion here - Penn and Teller are trying to fool us into thinking that they genuinely didn't know how this was done - when of course they did?
Message: Posted by: Melies (Jul 4, 2018 10:31AM)
I cannot disagree more with Mike and others here about Jeff's brilliant water bowls routine.

When I saw Jeff perform this in Salem, Mass., a year or two ago, I found it immensely moving--one of the most astonishing and emotionally powerful effects I've ever experienced. What could be "magical" about producing mere water--only the most elemental, miraculous, life-giving force on the earth, if not in the universe? Are people so used to turning on the tap in our country that they have forgotten that billions of humans, and other beings, struggle each day to get access to this precious elixir? That our life as a species has revolved around water--drinking it, bathing in it, building aqueducts to channel it and cities and ports to use it for trade, sailing on it to discover new lands and peoples, and even drowning in it and having our homes and cities swept away by it? Perhaps people are unaware that all the fresh water on the earth is disappearing, being squandered by industry and drying up due to climate change. Nonetheless, I ask: What could be more magical than making water appear in a drought, which is the narrative driving Jeff's routine?

There are elements of Jeff's theatricality which in other contexts I'm not comfortable with. But here I think the theatrical flourishes work, brilliantly. I do agree that on television the effect is underwhelming and even cheesy. But before a live audience, in a theater, it's exactly what magic should be--symbolic, mystifying, elemental. The audience I saw it with was as blown away as I was. Jeff obviously has spent years routining this effect, and it shows, particularly in his skillful use of sound (the bowls ringing together, the high-quality musical score of rain falling). And the effect truly seems impossible. I still have no idea how Jeff makes the water keep appearing, and in a way I don't want to know.

I find it surprising and even mildly shocking that some magicians don't "get" what Jeff is doing here. Is it because we have all become too accustomed to thinking of magic as the production of hankies, coin matrix routines, and billiard ball manipulations? "Back to the things themselves," I say (to quote a philosopher named Husserl). Look at the 20,000 year history of human magic and supernaturalism, and make the art more of what it started out as--a ritualized performance that brought humans in touch with hidden, elemental powers that could be made responsive to their gestures and supplications. Magic shouldn't be schtick; it should be miraculous.
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Jul 7, 2018 10:22PM)
[quote]On Jul 4, 2018, Melies wrote:
...I find it surprising and even mildly shocking that some magicians don't "get" what Jeff is doing here. Is it because we have all become too accustomed to thinking of magic as the production of hankies, coin matrix routines, and billiard ball manipulations? ...[/quote]

From here: (The story has been with us in magic lore since Doug Henning was starring in The Magic Show. )
http://www.intuitivetimes.ca/Spirituality/articles/vol4-2magic.htm (1999 Magic Magazine -?)
https://doughenningproject.com/2017/07/11/doug-mars-and-the-north-pole/
http://www.magicianvancouver.com/blog/doug-hennings-life-defining-moment/ [quote]The discussion amongst the Eskimos became heated – finally the Chief turns to Doug with big smile and responds “Ahhh now we know what you are doing, it’s because your people have forgotten magic! Well Done!”[/quote]

Jeff was also an early fan of Penn & Teller before that was the name of their act. :)
Message: Posted by: loserdlj (May 30, 2019 03:50AM)
T is written up in the Sam Sharpe trilogy published by Mickey Hades