(Close Window)
Topic: Rudy Hunter's DVDs
Message: Posted by: niva (Mar 14, 2005 10:58AM)
Recently I watched the two newly released Rudy Hunter DVDs.

The first one is the Hunter Shuffle. In this DVD Mr Hunter explains his take on the false riffle shuffle. This is a false table riffle shuffle which maintains whole deck order and is fairly easy to accomplish when compared to others. I may give this one a try.

The second DVD I liked a lot. It's called Total Control and explains a way to control cards without using any crimps. It uses a gimmicked card, if you can call it that, to control cards, such as the four aces. After you have finished you can cleanly remove the 'special' card and go on with the show, and the deck is completely examinable. The idea is an old one brought back on its feet by Rudy Hunter. I liked it and will use it in a gambling type routine.

The DVDs have torough explanations. Sometimes it's almost boring to the more knowledgeable. Mr.Hunter goes in great detail in his explanations. You can easily follow along, with shots from the back as well. It makes learning the techniques a breeze.

I would give both DVDs a 9/10

Hope this helps.
Message: Posted by: S.Segal (Mar 14, 2005 11:57AM)
Niva, does Rudy at all mention Frank Shank after discussing his "Hunter" Shuffle?

S.Segal
Message: Posted by: Kevvy (Mar 14, 2005 01:43PM)
I hope these are good, as I will be receiving both DVDs as a bonus with an order. Upon veiwing his Hunter shuffle, it appears to be similar to a Shank. But it could be a variation like a Zarrow.
Message: Posted by: Adam J (Mar 14, 2005 03:20PM)
I as well will be recieving these (and the Underground DVD) in an upcoming order I will be getting for my birthday. From what I here, Rudy is taking credit for the 'Hunter' Shuffle when he didn't invent it, but I'm not 100% sure that's true. I'm also pretty excited since I don't have a good false shuffle. Anyone have any suggestions on a non-tabled version?

Adam
Message: Posted by: Kevvy (Mar 14, 2005 04:51PM)
[quote]
On 2005-03-14 16:20, Adam Javer wrote:
Anyone have any suggestions on a non-tabled version?

Adam
[/quote]

I like the Eric Anderson false riffle shuffle
Message: Posted by: S.Segal (Mar 14, 2005 05:49PM)
[quote]
On 2005-03-14 16:20, Adam Javer wrote:
I as well will be recieving these (and the Underground DVD) in an upcoming order I will be getting for my birthday. From what I here, Rudy is taking credit for the 'Hunter' Shuffle when he didn't invent it, but I'm not 100% sure that's true.
[/quote]

No, that's pretty much 100% true...

[quote]
On 2005-03-14 17:51, kevvy wrote:
I like the Eric Anderson false riffle shuffle
[/quote]

Me too... btw, its called Shufflesque and was originally published in his book AH-HA! (a collaboration between he and David Harkey).

S.Segal
Message: Posted by: JeremiahZuo (Mar 14, 2005 07:16PM)
Clearly this Rudy has no idea what he's talking about.

In advertising his Control he mentioned you could not spring cards with any heard of crimp of any value? What bull is this? Has he never heard of a breather crimp? Or perhaps any other the other breather or notch type crimps out there?

Publishing a shuffle that's not his.....doesn't really know what he's doing....I'll pass on both dvds.

On another note, Shufflesque is awesome.
Message: Posted by: Daegs (Mar 14, 2005 07:50PM)
[quote]I as well will be recieving these (and the Underground DVD) in an upcoming order I will be getting for my birthday.[/quote]

I wish you luck and hope you have a happier birthday next year, because all 3 of these DVD's are pure rubbish!!!!
Message: Posted by: Kevvy (Mar 14, 2005 10:36PM)
[quote]
On 2005-03-14 18:49, S.Segal wrote:

[quote]
On 2005-03-14 17:51, kevvy wrote:
I like the Eric Anderson false riffle shuffle
[/quote]

Me too... btw, its called Shufflesque and was originally published in his book AH-HA! (a collaboration between he and David Harkey).

S.Segal
[/quote]

I will check out his book, as well as Guy Hollingworth's shuffle. From what I've read, it is very similar.
Message: Posted by: Cardguy52 (Mar 15, 2005 12:54AM)
I am slightly disapointed in these release's by Mr. Hunter as he has some wonderful material.
Message: Posted by: niva (Mar 15, 2005 02:04AM)
[quote]
On 2005-03-14 12:57, S.Segal wrote:
Niva, does Rudy at all mention Frank Shank after discussing his "Hunter" Shuffle?

S.Segal
[/quote]

I don't remember exactly, but I will check it out this evening and post here.
Message: Posted by: timofy (Mar 15, 2005 04:09AM)
[quote]
On 2005-03-14 20:50, Daegs wrote:
[quote]I as well will be recieving these (and the Underground DVD) in an upcoming order I will be getting for my birthday.[/quote]

I wish you luck and hope you have a happier birthday next year, because all 3 of these DVD's are pure rubbish!!!!


[/quote]

He's noly getting them because you get them fir free at penguin
Message: Posted by: S.Segal (Mar 15, 2005 09:17AM)
[quote]
On 2005-03-14 23:36, kevvy wrote:
[quote]
On 2005-03-14 18:49, S.Segal wrote:

[quote]
On 2005-03-14 17:51, kevvy wrote:
I like the Eric Anderson false riffle shuffle
[/quote]

Me too... btw, its called Shufflesque and was originally published in his book AH-HA! (a collaboration between he and David Harkey).

S.Segal
[/quote]

I will check out his book, as well as Guy Hollingworth's shuffle. From what I've read, it is very similar.
[/quote]

They are similar... The difference lies in the strip out.

S.Segal
Message: Posted by: Davidicus (Mar 15, 2005 02:27PM)
Hey, to each his own...
Message: Posted by: Adam J (Mar 15, 2005 02:28PM)
[quote]
On 2005-03-14 20:50, Daegs wrote:
I wish you luck and hope you have a happier birthday next year, because all 3 of these DVD's are pure rubbish!!!!
[/quote]


Oh, I know :) I'm just hoping that the other 5 DVD's Im ordering will make up for it :P
Message: Posted by: Steve Oxford (Mar 15, 2005 03:27PM)
I met Rudy at a convention in Baltimore two years ago and got to hang out with him for a couple of days. Really nice guy and very knowledgeable. Everything that I saw him do was credited where due, and he recommended various books to me that were right on the money. He also did the shuffle for me and taught a couple of us the fine points to it.
I am mentioning this because after seeing the shank shuffle and this shuffle, there is a difference in the handling. Should shank shuffle been mentioned in the dvd? probably, & it might have been, this could also be a case of editing leaving something out, I really do not know. But this brings up a very interesting thing that I have noticed.
On discussion boards, which are for discussing things, far too often I see people visciously attacking others, and often before they have seen or read an item. I have personally asked a couple of people about this and found that many times it comes from people that are too young to know much of history at all. I was always taught if you can't say something nice, then don't say anything at all.
Down through the years, we have seen variations(and some very slight variations) of tricks and moves by such giants in the fraternity as Marlo, Jennings, Fulves, and many others. At no time did anyone back then attack these guys, we were all hungry for material and knowledge and wanted to learn as many variations as we could. With the internet today, anyone can say whatever they wish, and often do without thinking first.
I am not trying to start a huge debate here, but just making observations. I have had people tell me that I should not buy anything from Magic Makers, yet if I listened to that, I would not have that great Simon Lovell set, or Chad Sanborns great metal bending on Mind Benders, or Marty Grahms info on making gaffed cards.
I look at each item I buy for the content and how I can use that material and then make my purchase.
Along those same lines, I have seen Hank Lee attacked by quite a few recently, yet every order I bought from him came fast, and I was handled as a valued customer. On the other hand I bought something from another dealer who many recommend and I was treated like dirt because that item arrived damaged. Everyone can have a different experience with buying something, good or bad, but before it is brought to a discussion board, give the dealer a phone call and see what the problem is.
Now to wrap this all up so I do not take up valuable space here, I have the Rudy Hunter dvds and I am very pleased with them, not just for the content, but I like Rudy as a performer and he does an excellent job of teaching here. That is my opinion, and as such being an opinion, it is neither right nor wrong, it is my opinion and that is how I feel discussion boards should be.
The last time I posted my opinion about something, I was e-mailed by people cussing me and trying to drag me into a senseless internet battle, because I mentioned my opinion, sad.
Oh well, I'm climbing down off my soap box now and going back to the Jason Dean/John Born dvds. Oh by the way, I am not going to get into a battle over this, because as I said, this is my opinion.
S.
Message: Posted by: zur (Mar 15, 2005 03:48PM)
Interesting that the Eric Anderson shuffle is in the book Ah-ha. I owned Simply Harkey and liked the material alot, but I heard that Ah-ha was not as good as Simply Harkey. With the false shuffle in the book I might rethink my decision and buy the book.
Message: Posted by: Close.Up.Dave (Mar 15, 2005 04:11PM)
[quote]
On 2005-03-15 16:27, Steve Oxford wrote:
Down through the years, we have seen variations(and some very slight variations) of tricks and moves by such giants in the fraternity as Marlo, Jennings, Fulves, and many others. At no time did anyone back then attack these guys,


Along those same lines, I have seen Hank Lee attacked by quite a few recently, yet every order I bought from him came fast, and I was handled as a valued customer. [/quote]

Actually if you do check magic's history Marlo out of anyone has probably gotten the most crap from other magicians about stealing other people's material. There have been many threads on this and books that discuss it. This has happened to other greats as well, but you'll notice that they never blantantly stole a product (Mike Skinner's Ultimate 3 Card Monte to name one was stolen by MM) that is already being sold. Those debates were usually about whose moves was whose and if someone didn't give credit.

As for Hank Lee, he's never done anything to me personally. But, he's caused problems with quite a few of my friends like double charging for products or overcharging on shipping on several occasions, even after they called and asked for it to be fixed. Everytime I've ordered from him I've had no problems.
Message: Posted by: S.Segal (Mar 15, 2005 06:07PM)
[quote]
On 2005-03-15 16:27, Steve Oxford wrote:
I am mentioning this because after seeing the shank shuffle and this shuffle, there is a difference in the handling. Should shank shuffle been mentioned in the dvd? probably, & it might have been, this could also be a case of editing leaving something out, I really do not know.
[/quote]

You later say...

[quote]
On 2005-03-15 16:27, Steve Oxford wrote:
Now to wrap this all up so I do not take up valuable space here, I have the Rudy Hunter dvds and I am very pleased with them, not just for the content, but I like Rudy as a performer and he does an excellent job of teaching here.
[/quote]

Steve, you have the DVD's but you are not sure if the essential credits (Shank/Erdnase) were mentioned? If they are not, please do not make the excuse that they may have been left off in "editing".

If I may, I will make an observation... I am tired of companies like Magic Makers putting out ripped off material. From watching the trailer, Rudy clearly states that, "Its the best false shuffle I have ever come up with." LOL! This ticks me off.

In no way, shape or form has Rudy created this shuffle. While his "touches" of it may be different, he should not throw around such claims of originality. A better title for this DVD should be "Rudy Hunter Tips His Shank Shuffle" or something to that nature.

Here is the write up on Magic Makers. Notice it gives no credit to its true creators:

An essential move with cards...
On this DVD you will learn how to take a regular deck of cards, give it a few innocent shuffles, and leave the cards in their original order! Learn step by step with Magic Expert Rudy Hunter as he shares with you his incredible false shuffle! It's easy to master and extremely deceptive!

Here is a quote off of the Penguin Website (which was not on the site yesterday):

"Rudy’s touches are brilliant! The Hunter Shuffle’s roots can be traced back to the “Shank Shuffle” that appeared first in print in Herophant#7. The original "Shank Shuffle" had one illustration and one paragraph describing what occurred with NO WAY of making it effective. Rudy Hunter’s handling and subtleties on this DVD make it a valuable contribution to the Magic Fraternity." – Rob Stiff Magic Makers, Inc.

That's GREAT! Is that credit mentioned on the DVD? Or was this recently found, post production, to cover his ***?

Either way, if you can without exposure, explain how Rudy's "touches" on this shuffle differ from the written work in Marlo's "Shank Shuffle Booklet" (1972) .

S.Segal (a young magician without knowledge of history)
Message: Posted by: Nik_Mikas (Mar 15, 2005 07:40PM)
For the record, this shuffle (or the touches to the shuffle) belong to Willis Kenny and were taught to Rudy by him. Rudy has constantly stolen Willis' material, as he learned under Willis for a while (you probably got a chance to see this stolen material at that convention you spoke of). I am not blaming you for not knowing this, but you should have all the facts before defending a thief so strongly.

I would also like to know what "special touch" Rudy has added that wasn't included in Marlo's "The Shank Shuffle" book, which was a pretty variation-ridden volume (not that that's bad). As Willis came up with the whole shuffle independently, I doubt there is really anything new that hasn't already been published. Any credible magician trying to publish something would know that, but we are dealing with both MagicMakers and Rudy Hunter here. The combination seems to be potent...

Nik Mikas (another young magician without knowledge of history)
Message: Posted by: Close.Up.Dave (Mar 15, 2005 09:55PM)
[quote]
On 2005-03-15 16:27, Steve Oxford wrote:
On discussion boards, which are for discussing things, far too often I see people visciously attacking others, and often before they have seen or read an item. I have personally asked a couple of people about this and found that many times it comes from people that are too young to know much of history at all. I was always taught if you can't say something nice, then don't say anything at all.
[/quote]

I was also taught it's better to be assumed a moron than to open your mouth and prove it. To assume that all young people don't know something due to their age is a very ignorant way to think. I may be young but that doesn't mean that I or others haven't taken the time to read all that we can on magic. Cameron Roat (a Café member) is probably as old as I am if not younger, yet mention anything about magic and he'll immediately start discussing where the moves first appeared, the author, etc. Does this mean all magicians older than he are automatically smarter? There's a 17 year old (German I think) who hacked into the U.S. Governement database. She's getting hired more now in a month because of her intelligence than most of the "older more experienced" computer geeks (and I mean that lightly) do in an entire year.

You're right, discussion boards are made to discuss things, but who says that all discussions have to be pleasant? Going out and attacking others for no reason isn't called for, if someone does something to diserve it then I say attack. Stealing other's magic isn't right nor is assuming that someone is stupid.


"That's what the internet is for, Slandering others anonymously. Stopping the flick isn't gonna stop that."
-Banky (Jay And Silent Bob Strike Back)

Steve Oxford, I think this thread is proof that older people aren't necessarily the smartest. Your beloved Rudy Hunter is more than twice my age, yet he doesn't seem to act it.

Dave (sorry if I'm too young too know magic's history)
Message: Posted by: Magic Marty (Mar 16, 2005 10:45PM)
Dave, I couldn't agree with you more on this one. Too many times young magicians haven't been given the respect they deserve because they are too young. There are many talented young magicians out there. Just because you haven't lived through "the history" doesn't mean that you can't learn about it. Many young magicians take magic more seriously than adults (I being one of them), so it is not fair to say that we are ignorant.

And I'm not here to personally attack anyone, just to get the attention and respect I deserve.
Message: Posted by: niva (Apr 1, 2005 02:48PM)
[quote]Mike Skinner's Ultimate 3 Card Monte to name one was stolen by MM[/quote]

Is it really M Skinner's or does the gaff date way back? Perhaps I don't know enough history.
Message: Posted by: entity (Apr 3, 2005 02:17PM)
Nik is correct. The touches Rudy shows are ones he learned from the late Willis Kenny of Toronto. Willis was, in his earlier years, a professional card cheat in lumber camps, mining towns, etc. Friends with Vernon, Miller, etc.

- entity
Message: Posted by: BroDavid (Nov 21, 2005 06:54PM)
I just got the total Control and Hunter shuffle, and although Total control is fairly interesting, and another of a series of card location tools. A crimp or thick card, or any number of other approaches would provide similar benefits, but it is workable.

On the other hand, the Hunter shuffle must have been intended to be a joke. It is hardly more deceiving, in fact his handling, in my mind cries out "sneakey move at work now" right when he is doing the dirty work.

He may be a nice guy, or not, I don't know, but I should have been warned by the fact that it was offered/produced by magicmakers.

If I hadnt gotten it really cheap, I would feel really ripped off. As it is, it was definitely a dissapointment.

BroDavid
Message: Posted by: thejohn171 (Sep 6, 2006 05:37PM)
Well, My opinion...

I think Rudy is a stellar guy/performer/mentalist etc. Everything he has done whenever I saw him, was credited. I think Total Control is absalutly amazing. I use it a lot and its one of those things that your not iritated once you find out the secret because of its simplicity. Its just its one of those "WHY didn't I THINK OF THAT" moments. On to the controversial Hunter Shuflle (No its not a new dance move.) ((sorry rudy, I stole your joke lol) but anyway. I think its extremely well tought, doesn't scream anything... JUst looks like.. cut cut cut. And he has credited it whenever I saw it tought. Just my humble opinion.

john
Message: Posted by: ryan8406 (Aug 7, 2008 03:29AM)
I recently had the honor to see rudy hunter lecture at the funarama convention. I purchased his hunter shuffle, money making card tricks, and draw me a tree dvds. in my opinion they were excellent dvd's and rudy is an excellent instructor. rudy and paul hallas even stayed up until about 2am just sitting around a table performing for myself and a few others. he was willing to take the time to help us out and has a great sense of humor. I highly suggest you check out the money making card tricks dvd if you havent already.
Message: Posted by: eddini (May 29, 2021 10:31PM)
I have his ESP DVD and Deck from Magic Makers, and I didn't care for them. The routines are more for beginners. Also my set did not have a blue set of the 5 colors. Some routines are based on them being unique in color not just shape. Out of 1 to 10, I'll give it a 3 only because the cards are great quality being bicycles of course plus there are a couple other extra shapes. I have a great set of ESP cards, but got the DVD hoping to learn some great material.

Ed [Eddini]