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Topic: Daemon's dirt...
Message: Posted by: Gede Nibo (Mar 18, 2005 10:50AM)
Peace my magi...
well anyonme have a reivew on this stuff...I did a search and the info is lacking...

here's where to find it...

http://daytonamagic.net/customer/index.cfm?action=detail&ProductId=3073

supposedly self-ingniting stuff...

let me know!

Baba
Message: Posted by: Greg Arce (Mar 18, 2005 11:02AM)
What they are packaging is a certain compound that when it mixes with glycerin you get the flames you need. If you have connections you can probably get the compound on your own, but in these stressful times it's much harded to get chemicals that are combustionable.
Greg
Message: Posted by: saheer (Mar 18, 2005 12:16PM)
Hello BabaKali!

I have used this to cause a candle to spontaneously ignite.
I think Mark Ghia is a member of the Café and is a good egg I think his handle is mghia, but I'm not sure that's him). I purchased two effects from him several years ago and they both work as advertised. He also provided generous amounts of the ingredients that were not readily available and tells you exactly what they are - which was responsible and thoughtful.

As I mentioned, it does work, and these are very good instructions, but it still takes some experimenting to get it right and even then I can't get it to work 100% of the time, (though you can get it to work fairly consistently). Mark's instructions and supplies go far in telling you how to control as many of the variables as possible but, as alluded to above, it is a chemical effect and there are lots of things that affect the interaction - including weather to some extent. It's not a bad idea to make sure to do a test an hour before you plan to perform it just to make sure it is working right. The most difficult thing is getting the timing right, so I'd suggest that whatever routine it's in has to allow for it to happen a little early or late (or, possibly, not at all).

The only other thing I have to say is that it's probably better to use a candle that's fairly big around and has been used a little as the "pit" around the wick better conceals the gimmick and the little amount of "soot" left after it lights the wick won't be as easily noticed. Other than that, the candle is far and away more examinable than any other "self-igniting candle" effect I'm aware of since it uses a real candle with a gimmick that is basically destroyed in the effect.
Message: Posted by: Gede Nibo (Mar 18, 2005 12:29PM)
Saheer,'
thanx so much for the info...you summed it up perfectly...

I s'ppose Ill get some, and get workin' with it..seems to be nothing short of a miracle if you pull it off...just like the whole gambit of psychological subtleties...not always gauranteed, but when it works , youre a "god."

Baba

Well, thanx for all the Pm's, I guess Ill give it a go...
if anyone has stories about their use with this stuff, please, post it here!

Baba
Message: Posted by: Clifford the Red (Mar 18, 2005 04:28PM)
You can dye the glycerin blood-colored ya know :)

Does that stimulate your imagination?
Message: Posted by: Mystician (Mar 18, 2005 04:35PM)
Sure does !

or, treat the glyercin as though it were holy water.
umm.. really, really, thick holy water...

Holy Deuterium anybody ? :bg:
Message: Posted by: Gede Nibo (Mar 18, 2005 04:35PM)
That's crazy!!! I love that idea...now anyone wanna mail the baba a bit to experiment with??LOL
Message: Posted by: Clifford the Red (Mar 18, 2005 04:53PM)
Actually If I were to mail it, the black helicopters would start looking for me again.

It is a questionable substance to mail and don't go to buy it at the same time as Glycerin. The staff at the store will press the red button under the counter and treat you really nice until someone pops a canvas bag over your head and hauls you away in a black SUV to an undisclosed location where you sit naked under bright lights as someone asks you probing questions you would rather not answer but you do anyway because that stuff they put in your arm makes you feel pretty darn open. Not that I've done this personally :)
Message: Posted by: Gede Nibo (Mar 18, 2005 05:04PM)
LOL! youre so damm funny! especially with my ol' turban, Ive been called Taliban many, many times!!

Baba
Message: Posted by: kaytracy (Mar 18, 2005 05:16PM)
Odd, your turban does not look anythign like the style used by the Taliban! Unless your avatoar sports a different style! Try those nice folks at United Nuclear, I think they might carry what you seek.....
I recall ages ago when I was a wee tot the big Rodeo in North Dakota, the local Shaman started the big campfire with no matches, flint or lighter, just much dancing and chanting.....! (this one has been around a while folks!)
Message: Posted by: glenn collins (Mar 20, 2005 08:56AM)
Does anyone know of a UK source for this stuff, it sounds great.
Message: Posted by: Caspar (Mar 20, 2005 12:29PM)
I have been a little apprhensive about using it myself. Is there anything to dispose of afterwards?
Message: Posted by: kaytracy (Mar 20, 2005 12:32PM)
Nothing but the evil; tainted soil, sprinkle liberally with holy water or salt water, and do not dump it in YOUR garden, all the negative enrgy you know, not that Pazouzzo was THAT bad, I even have a little image of him form an archaeilogy find, little terracotta head! hardly seems threatening at al........................
;}
Message: Posted by: Caspar (Mar 21, 2005 09:43AM)
[quote]
On 2005-03-20 13:32, kaytracy wrote:
Nothing but the evil; tainted soil, sprinkle liberally with holy water or salt water, and do not dump it in YOUR garden, all the negative enrgy you know, not that Pazouzzo was THAT bad, I even have a little image of him form an archaeilogy find, little terracotta head! hardly seems threatening at al........................
;}
[/quote]

Not that bad? I thouhgt he held on til death.
Message: Posted by: Mystician (Mar 21, 2005 10:27AM)
Babakali, I always thought that was a chef's hat you had on in your avatar !
You mean that pic wasn't taken at a barbecue ? LOL

You can find that certain substance at http://www.unitednuclear.com
A very cool website. Also check out their phosphorescent powder.
Message: Posted by: Clifford the Red (Mar 21, 2005 11:36AM)
Kay I think you are confusing this Daemon Dirt with the REAL Daemon's Dirt from MyM. Although maybe this one would be useful to light the other one! OOoooooo!

(Someone stop the Red before he mixes too many dangerous chemicals without knowing what the hell he is doing and causes Armageddon)
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Mar 21, 2005 11:47AM)
Probably safer to have a buddy who knows some chemistry. Some chemicals are not so safe to handle anyway, as they react to water, and others react to air. What you learned in high-school now needs to be handled even more carefully
Message: Posted by: Clifford the Red (Mar 21, 2005 03:02PM)
Oh I have a couple of CalTech scientists who keep me out of too much trouble :)
Message: Posted by: kaytracy (Mar 21, 2005 03:57PM)
Hi Cliff, I know about both the Demons' and daemons, so no worry there, and with either, you do not want anything still warm hitting the trash, hence the well watered effect!

And besides, I thought those Cal Tech guys were the ones getting you INTO trouble!!
<Hi Ross!!>
k
Message: Posted by: Lee Darrow (Mar 21, 2005 11:45PM)
Daemon Dirt is one of the oddest stories in magick. When Tony Andruzzi first published it, several of the subscribers tried to make it work and failed, miserably. In fact, I am told that there are only about two times, total, where the trick worked as Tony wrote it up. It is incredibly sensitive to ambient humidity and will fail more often than not.

When I did it for my now infamous presentation to a bunch of midwestern cops many moons ago, I used an entirely different method and, not surprisingly, it worked beautifully. So well, that I almost got shot by all but one of the cops in attendance (the last fellow wasn't packing heat that day, as it was a training seminar out of his jurisdiction).

For those interested in my method, a PM might get you the inside skinny, but the guy who made mine for me charges an arm, a leg and your immortal soul, so be aware that it will NOT be cheap if I can even get him to build the things or not.

Lee Darrow, C.H.
Message: Posted by: Clifford the Red (Mar 22, 2005 02:46PM)
[quote]
On 2005-03-21 16:57, kaytracy wrote:
And besides, I thought those Cal Tech guys were the ones getting you INTO trouble!!

[/quote]

Well that too.
Message: Posted by: burgerinc (Mar 22, 2005 04:19PM)
I would love to see it burn a pentagram in a tarot card!
Message: Posted by: Slim Price (Mar 22, 2005 08:01PM)
I suspect that the bad results are from using too much G**** It only takes a drop or two to get the reaction.... More kills it.
Slim
Message: Posted by: 7th_Son (Mar 22, 2005 08:05PM)
Some more info here:

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=51241&forum=37
Message: Posted by: saheer (Mar 23, 2005 05:19PM)
Sanscan's right - most of the time I've had problems with this it's been because of too much G.
Message: Posted by: Gede Nibo (Mar 23, 2005 05:23PM)
Because, without beer, things do not seem to go as well"

perhaps saher, you wernt drinkin enuff brew ski heh?

LOL

Im not ordering this shyte...seems overall to be YET ANOTHER piece of MAGIC HYPE..
Message: Posted by: tuffnavyrn (Mar 24, 2005 05:55AM)
Good idea baba....go with the original!
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Mar 24, 2005 11:04AM)
What "Original" are you speaking of?
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Mar 24, 2005 11:37AM)
Can we move this discussion of chemistry and safety issues to somewhere safer.

We are discussing glycerine and concentrated oxidizing agents here... that are not safe to taste test.

Suggestions?
Message: Posted by: Mystician (Mar 25, 2005 10:33PM)
Funny you should mention that, Jonathan. Guess what I just found on eBay ?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6521492071&fromMakeTrack=true

Still, I don't see why it should be moved. No one here is, nor should they be, responsible for what someone else decides to do with whatever knowledge they got from this discussion. For one, this information is not hard to get, a simple google search (or any other decent search portal for that matter) will yield the ingredients list.
In fact, as I just pointed out, you can even buy it on eBay now.
I think society must start backing away from this mindset of communal blame and absolution of personal responsibility. Every time somebody goes and does something stupid, we all get punished for it by having something taken away - a freedom, or some substance, book, or product that is removed from market, etc. The way we can start to do this is by rounding up all the lawyers and ambulance chasers into a huge dining hall, and pull a Vlad Tepes on them. (Dracula historians will know that which I refer to).
I do wish to note however that I am not referring to the Patriot Act or anything terrorism related. I am solely referring to the kinds of acts of idiocy that result in things like dislaimers in catalogs of children's toys that state, "Children not Included".
True story, I kid you not ! It's sad.
Message: Posted by: Clifford the Red (Mar 26, 2005 09:00PM)
Actually, that is in violation of eBay policies as a harzardous chemical.
Message: Posted by: Mystician (Mar 27, 2005 08:02PM)
Does this really qualify as hazardous though ? It's not toxic or radioactive. After all, we can sell and buy flash paper, flash powder, etc.
Do an eBay search on "chemicals", some very interesting things pop up, including a Doug Henning effect, as well as pyrotechnics.
Message: Posted by: kaytracy (Mar 28, 2005 09:53AM)
Well, many strong oxidizers will require a hazardous shipping fee, and proper markings to be shipped by ANY means, and some will be fully restricted form being shipped on airplanes (guess how a large amount of mail and packages get to places!)
kay
Message: Posted by: Midnight333 (Mar 28, 2005 03:31PM)
Yeah, that guy on ebay.. his effect portion is a direct rip off of a Harkey effect called Bon Fire.. somebody should tell him.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Mar 30, 2005 11:45PM)
Actually, this is a restricted substance. I've been working with it for some 20 years, when you could buy it over the counter in toy stores as part of a chemistry set, or at drugstores.

It is now used by illicit drug manufacturers to produce certain items, so you need to be very careful about purchasing it.

Once I learned how to make it work, I never had a problem with it not igniting. You have to use a non-metallic mortar and pestle and grind the granules almost to dust right before setting it up. This exposes fresh surfaces for the G to work on. Otherwise, it oxidizes slightly and forms a layer that keeps it from working.

I don't know how this pyrotechnic company is selling it over the internet.
Message: Posted by: saheer (Mar 31, 2005 10:59AM)
Bill Palmer - Thanks for the advice! I never thought about grinding it further.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Mar 31, 2005 09:26PM)
I got the advice from a chemistry teacher.

BTW, to kind of parallel what Jonathan Townsend was saying, if you do work with this or any other potentially dangerous chemical, get the MSDS for the chemical. You can find these on line. MSDS means Manufacturer's Safety Data Sheet. [i]Sheherazade[/i] was the first magic book to have the MSDS's for every chemical even mentioned in the book.

Also, ask a chemistry teacher to help you with the proper disposal of the chemicals and with proper handling of them.

Finally, many people who make magic props intentionally mis-name the chemicals used in their props so you can't refill them yourself. This is probably illegal. If you don't know what you are working with, you can't possibly handle it safely.

There is a smoke product that the manufacturer claims uses a tritium compound. It doesn't. It uses a titanium compound that is DEADLY. Tritium would be worse. But the compound they claim to be using does not exist.
Message: Posted by: Mystician (Nov 30, 2005 04:20PM)
Thought I'd just dig this up ( no pun intended), as this is very useful information.
I too had the problem of not getting it to combust.
Once I ground it up in a mortar and pestle, it worked like a charm !
The trick is get that ozidized crust off the grains, this "exposes" the chemical and enables the reaction.
I wonder how long before it starts to oxidize again though .. ?
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Nov 30, 2005 05:48PM)
FYI= Ebay removed the item for it being a violation of their rules... so there ya go....

Posted: Nov 30, 2005 6:50pm
BTW - I must have it wrong - although I'd love to get a hold of this effect - didn't Andruzzi's demon dust also sprout tentacles and such? Or am I thinking of a different effect... somewhere when a cop pulled out a gun thinking a demon was really materializing... or is that an urban legend? (Urban for here, that is!)
Message: Posted by: Almost Amazing Doug (Dec 3, 2005 05:04PM)
Dr Spektor,

You are correct. This thread is dealing with two differnt things that have the same name.

Doug
Message: Posted by: Slim Price (Dec 3, 2005 06:21PM)
Just a side note, and of no help... Years ago we could buy it as a cure for Athlete's Foot and also it was a popular cure for a fish disease.
Slim Price
Message: Posted by: pkg (Dec 3, 2005 07:01PM)
http://www.hizbollah.org anything that explodes lol
Message: Posted by: Sid Mayer (Dec 3, 2005 07:41PM)
Tony Andruzzi told me that he mixed broken up snake eggs (a kind of pyrotechnic novelty) with the other DD ingredient before adding the Gl*****n. This would account for the "tentacles." The urban legend is an add-on rather than a variant.

It is my opinion that TA knew just enough about chemistry to get himself in trouble.

Sid
Message: Posted by: Mystician (Dec 4, 2005 02:50PM)
[quote]
On 2005-12-03 19:21, sanscan wrote:
Just a side note, and of no help... Years ago we could buy it as a cure for Athlete's Foot and also it was a popular cure for a fish disease.
Slim Price
[/quote]

Can you imagine someone treating their athlete's foot by first rubbing a glyercin based lotion on their feet, and then unknowingly, immediately apply the "secret ingrediant" ?
Instant hot foot ? ;)
Probably not, but it sounded funny to bring up.
Message: Posted by: Gede Nibo (Dec 4, 2005 03:03PM)
LMAO!
Message: Posted by: weepinwil (Dec 5, 2005 07:59AM)
It's amazing how cremains of humans and animals still retain the life force of the person even after the flame is gone and can be restored by adding a little reconstituted blood.

Could also use a little black art and some flash paper to cause a small animal or bird to appear when the flame ignites. Supposedly the animal or bird that was cremated.

Or maybe some spiritual form could appear.
Message: Posted by: xanatos (Dec 5, 2005 08:30PM)
Bill P.,

Thanks for the grinding tip. I use the stuff I got from Mark Ghia's version (and to his credit he actually tells you what the chemical is), and he sells it ground pretty finely, so I've rarely had problems using it. And since I use it only for starting large bonfires in the Summer in my back yard (while a great distance away, with my wand and some magical chanting, of course), I use only about a tablespoon a month. I believe the chemical is also used, somehow, in water purification systems, but given the VERY toxic nature of the chemical, I still can't figure out how!

I am still fascinated by the green crystals embedded in the "aftermath" of the effect. I have even spoken to a university chem professor who has speculated what they might be, but I'd love to find someone who knows organic chem well enough to actually figure the reaction products!

Anybody know what those green crystals are? Would they be good as a sprinkle on cupcakes (JUST KIDDING FOLKS!!!) :)

Best,

Dave
Message: Posted by: Mystician (Dec 5, 2005 10:07PM)
Only Folgers knows .. ;)
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Dec 6, 2005 06:43AM)
Green Crystals...

Y'know... I wonder if you could use demon dirt to replicate the destruction of Krypton... leaving kryptonite... as part of a small scale version of telling the story of Superman....

Just a thought...

Bruce
Message: Posted by: Robin DeWitt (Dec 19, 2005 09:33PM)
[quote]
On 2005-12-03 20:41, Sid Mayer wrote:
Tony Andruzzi told me that he mixed broken up snake eggs (a kind of pyrotechnic novelty) with the other DD ingredient before adding the Gl*****n. This would account for the "tentacles." The urban legend is an add-on rather than a variant.

It is my opinion that TA knew just enough about chemistry to get himself in trouble.

Sid
[/quote]

Hi Sid. Good to see you are still around. Ah, the stories that could be told about the many misaventures of abortive attempts of performing Demon Dirt. If one should note in The Scroll it was I who originated the appearence of the 'demon'. I showed it to Tony at an early MOTM. I didn't have an effect, I was just able to produce this really neat 'thing' that looked for all the world like a feotid, bonsai like... well, 'thing'. 'Twas the beginning of a wonderful friendship. ***, I miss him. Give my regards to you wife and have a fun filled newyear. Keep in touch.

Robin
Message: Posted by: Black Hart (Dec 20, 2005 06:56AM)
"I would love to see it burn a pentagram in a tarot card!"

For an easier method see 'A Bizarre Ritual' in 'The Experience of Magic' by Eugene Burger.

Keith Hart
Message: Posted by: Mystician (Dec 20, 2005 09:43PM)
..or Ghost Writing in Lippy's Modern Chemical Magic.

Oh, and thanks from me as well to Bill Palmer for (what I consider)this breakthrough grinding tip !
Message: Posted by: JAlenS (Mar 8, 2007 01:53PM)
It's been over a year since the last post and it seems no one is using this stuff anymore. I made ten test packets with the stuff using different numbers of G******* drops and guess what? It didn't work until I lit it with a lighter. Maybe it's too humid right now. I don't know. The effect I use it for could go off with an alternative method because I just need a flash of fire without showing a flame first. The stuff is too tricky to trust during a performance so if anyone has any ideas...LEGAL ideas lol...please let me know. Thanks
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Mar 8, 2007 02:00PM)
There was a new thread on this less than 2 weeks ago. Some good tips in there as well.

Here is the link: http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=85548&forum=14&18

Tony
Message: Posted by: Mystician (Mar 8, 2007 02:39PM)
[quote]
On 2007-03-08 14:53, JAlenS wrote:
It's been over a year since the last post and it seems no one is using this stuff anymore. I made ten test packets with the stuff using different numbers of G******* drops and guess what? It didn't work until I lit it with a lighter. Maybe it's too humid right now. I don't know. The effect I use it for could go off with an alternative method because I just need a flash of fire without showing a flame first. The stuff is too tricky to trust during a performance so if anyone has any ideas...LEGAL ideas lol...please let me know. Thanks
[/quote]

Did you read the biggest tip of them all here ??
To hell with the number of G****** drops you use, that has practically nothing to do with it ! That's all supposition unsupported by any real fact or experimentation, as far as I'm concerned.. I mean, yeah, you don't want to saturate the packet, but whether it's one drop or two or three doesn't matter.

The trick, (yet again), is to [b]GRIND UP[/b] THE DAEMON'S DIRT IN A MORTAR AND PESTLE [i]shortly before[/i] using it.
It will work everytime if you do this.

That oughta do it. :bwink:
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Mar 8, 2007 02:44PM)
Grind it and heat it. The heating it removes much of the moisture.
Message: Posted by: Mystician (Mar 8, 2007 04:18PM)
Don't heat it [i]too[/i] much, though, or it might remove much of you... hehe
;)

I keep one of those silica gel desiccant packs in my PP .. er, DD stash. Two might not be a bad idea, actually.
Message: Posted by: JAlenS (Mar 9, 2007 12:04AM)
I read it but just needed some positive reinforcement. A mortar and pestle it is. Besides, the stuff is a little hard to find now and the "experiments" used too much of it but it was a lot of fun watching it sputter and burn. Thanks!!!!