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Topic: Ammars DVDs Complete cups and balls
Message: Posted by: Bennie90 (Apr 28, 2005 12:00PM)
I got couple days ago those dvds and I am really happy with them. Great material. I was bit disapointted to not see Ammars own routine? Does somebody have it in video here? I mean performance vid
Message: Posted by: saheer (Apr 28, 2005 12:29PM)
Offhand, I know it's on Steven's Magic "Cups and Balls teach in" video/dvd and Ammar Live at the Magic Castle (performance only). I'm sure it's on other videos as well. I know that the whole routine isn't on them, but isn't his opening sequence included with the Complete cups and Balls DVDs? In my opinion, that is the part that's most useful to actually see since it shows that the particular bit of misdirection he uses in the appearance of the third ball works o.k.
Message: Posted by: the74rock (Apr 28, 2005 11:49PM)
I have the stevens cups and balls dvd, Michael Ammar live, and complete cups and balls dvd 1 and 2. all are great to watch and tons of information.

but none of the dvds can beat watching Michael Ammar live doing cups and balls
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Apr 29, 2005 12:08AM)
And none of them can beat watching Vernon live doing the cups and balls, or Mike Rogers live doing the cups and balls. But both of them are no longer among the living, so we settle for the DVD's.

Look at the advantage of having the DVD's. You can pause them, you can repeat sections of them, and you don't have to buy Mike dinner after he finishes the lesson!
Message: Posted by: Magicmaven (Apr 29, 2005 12:28AM)
But you have Vernon doing his own routine. You don't need Michael's. LOL

I suggest you learn everything on those DVDs, especially everything on vol. 2. Then watch Vernon perfrom his routine over and over and over again. That is the best way in my opinion. Then, look at the routine, and change everything that you do not like, and try to form it around a character, or theme. This is what I did, and I am quite happy my routine.

It might help...
Message: Posted by: Mr. Muggle (Apr 29, 2005 02:28AM)
Are the cups DVD's the exact same as the cup tapes? I know that Ammar still teaches his opening sequence on the tape set. So something is better than nothing although Ammar's routine in full I think is better than most, and should have been fully included. I have to go look at my tapes again- I really thought Ammar's routine was on the tapes.

I think that Ammar's project was so large he had to cut something- which is too bad since it already has so much good material. It would be nice if L&L brought out a volume 3 containing only TOP notch routines for the serious student. Can you imagine the political work in those negations?

MM
Message: Posted by: Bennie90 (Apr 30, 2005 01:25PM)
I have Ammars book now. (bought it yesterday from local dealer) not cups and balls book that "The Magic of Michael Ammar" book. Can somebody give us performance vid of that routine. it is bit hard to follow everything on the book? I know what happends but don't know very well how.
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Brown (Apr 30, 2005 01:55PM)
Ammar's routine is an excellent one. However, I would tell you to look at a few two cup and ball routines. Tommy Wonder and Dave Williamson have great ones. I think it simplifies the effect. Todays modern audiences have a smaller attention spans and by shortening the routine, you get all the good stuff in a shorter time and is in my opinion easier to follow. More bang for your buck, know what I mean? Not to mention, less to carry around and the Wonder routine requires NO POCKET LOADING for the final sequence, and has 3 mini climaxes in the course of performance which conditions the audience and makes the finale staggering! Check out his Books of Wonder and his Visions DVD's.

Best of luck,
Jonathan Brown
Message: Posted by: the74rock (Apr 30, 2005 02:03PM)
I prefer a 2 cup routine now a days instead of the classic 3 cup routine. so much quicker like jonathan said and ppl do have a short attention spam.
Message: Posted by: Bennie90 (Apr 30, 2005 02:16PM)
Ok I don't nee vid. I now totally understand the routine. After thinking 2 days :D it is bit unclearly in the book. it jumps page to another and then comes back etc.
I have now Vernon's, Ammar's, Wilson's . And my own wich is pretty bad. But I am now starting to constructing one GREAT routine with all my knowledge. But first I practise those routines and moves
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Apr 30, 2005 05:03PM)
I think the Tommy Wonder version is interesting, but I am not all that fond of two cup routines. There is something magical about the number 3. You don't need to go from three cups to two cups. It doesn't necessarily shorten the routine. It just eliminates one prop, more if you count the loads. But the sequences themselves don't necessarily need to be any shorter.

Excessively long routines are commonplace in three cup routines. You can do a very good routine with three cups in less than two minutes, including final loads.

Regarding the audience's shorter attention span these days. Yes, it is shorter, but as long as something happens every few seconds, whether it is a line or a visual bit, you will keep their attention.

Avoid the pitfall of believing that any routine MUST have everything you know in it. There are many potentially great routines that would be greatly improved by eliminating half of the moves in them.
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Brown (May 1, 2005 08:52AM)
Very well said. I used to do a three cup routine, but I felt a two cup routine fit my style. I just think, there there is less for the audience to follow and the routine is simplified, but a truly great three cup routine is wonderful to watch. My biggest thing is eliminating props. I find I work better with less and less space is used. Prop management is a constant battle for me, and the less I have to deal with the better. I thought at first sacrificing a cup for my own personal satisfaction was taking away from the overall feel of the cups and balls. Surely I didn't want to hurt the audience. I want them to get the best of "ME" and I want my magic to be for them and not my pleasure. However, when I started playing with a two cup routine, namely Williamson's and Ouellet's Two Goblets, I thought that it fit me and it could be worked to the full extent. Again, all of this is just an opinion. Still, I often look down at my table and say, "Where is my other cup?!?" :)

Eliminating moves is worth mentioning. I find performers work too hard and over handled routines look just that....overhandled. Cluttered work especially in a cup routine is a shame. The cups and balls works in it's simplicity and that's what I feel sells it. All the best and thanks for the insight....maybe I'll look up my third cup and bring it back into action....

Jonathan Brown
Message: Posted by: johnnymystic (Feb 18, 2006 11:07AM)
WOW!!!

I got me the Ammar vol.2 the other day while shopping at Tannens. This one dvd is awesome, I can't wait to get the first one.

So much to learn, it seems it could take a lifetime to construct ones own routine.

johnny
Message: Posted by: ChristianR (Feb 18, 2006 12:12PM)
That's the problem, once you've learned all the magic ever published its to late to perform it!
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Feb 18, 2006 01:23PM)
My advice to anyone who wants to do the cups and balls is to take the Ammar DVD's and books, as well as the Gazzo material. Add the Frank Garcia book. And get the Hocus Pocus Junior manuscript. Also, any material from Aldo Colombini and Johnny Thompson (the Stevens Teach-in), and the Dennis Loomis routine.

Learn all of that material.

Then select the parts of it that best illustrate the cups and balls from your point of view. Do that routine and end up with some really "fools them good" final loads.

Once you have a simple, direct routine, you will have a better routine than 90% of the workers around.

I know one guy who can do a 30 minute routine with the cups and balls. Perhaps I should call it a demonstration. It would bore most audiences to distraction.

When I learned the linking rings, I spent 5 years reading about it first. I have a routine that lasts 1 minute and 55 seconds. It has passed "the wife test." I'm still working on a cup and ball routine.
Message: Posted by: johnnymystic (Feb 18, 2006 01:33PM)
A good friend of mine by the name of Opie Houston also suggests having a simple direct routine, not some long winded demonstration.

Right now I'm working on the Click Move Sequence and I'm definatly adding it to my routine.

johnny
Message: Posted by: flimnar (Feb 18, 2006 02:20PM)
In which book(s)/DVD(s) can the Colombini routine and information be found?

Flimnar
Message: Posted by: Dave V (Feb 18, 2006 02:50PM)
I haven't seen it, but it looks like it's in his

[url=http://www.mammamiamagic.com/videos_dvds.htm#classics]Classics of Magic[/url] DVD.
Message: Posted by: flimnar (Feb 18, 2006 02:55PM)
Thanks Dave. I just went out to his "Mamma Mia" website and it looks like you are right. He also has a couple of booklets on the cups and balls as well. Guess I could always just look first.......

Flimnar
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Feb 18, 2006 03:54PM)
There is also a Ganson teach-in by Colombini. Aldo knows as much about C&B as anyone.
Message: Posted by: Mr. Muggle (Feb 18, 2006 09:42PM)
Here are a few more Colombini routines on video...

Lasting Impressions Commercial Magic with Aldo Colombini- Mamma Mia Cups and Balls (uses different color balls)

The Aldo Colombini Video Volume one- Cups & Balls (an original, visual routine with some interesting 'cup juggling')
Message: Posted by: flimnar (Feb 19, 2006 08:16AM)
Lots of great options--time to go hunting! Thanks for the information.

Flimnar
Message: Posted by: Mobius303 (Feb 20, 2006 06:01PM)
You can also get Ammar's full performance in a better setting than the Stevens video on "The Exciting world of Magic" at the enbd of the DVD. It is performed at the Magical Empire and was originally shown on the World's Greatest Magicinan's special in the 90's ....I like this performance better than the stevens one and use the steven's video as a refresher for working on the routine. It is expertly explained on the stevens video along with all the other great C&B material on there.

I like the Ammar C&B project videos but at the same time am somewhat disappointed by it. I can't explain it though ...they do explain a lot on there but it is like candy ....after I watch it I want more. Maybe he should so an advanced #3 C&B like that which you guys already suggested.
Ross Bertrams routine is also in Video form ...good for reference and learning as well.
So many Routines so little time.
Later,
Mobius
Message: Posted by: johnnymystic (Feb 20, 2006 10:21PM)
I love Vol.@ and can't get enough of it.

The hard part is I have 6 kids, 4 live at home and 2 of the older ones that do not live at home have boyfriends and they are here constantly...so as you all can see I have very little time to watch this amazing dvd.

I'll probably go to bed tonight at 3 a.m. as a result.

johnny
Message: Posted by: liljay510 (Feb 27, 2006 10:15AM)
Frank Garcia has some nice ideas for cups and balls in the Stars of Magic Tapes or now the DVDs.
Message: Posted by: Mobius303 (Feb 27, 2006 06:03PM)
Garcia's can be found at most dealers that sell DVD's
L& L has them as does Meir Yadid.
Mobius