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Topic: Who first performed the "knee adjustment" subtlety for the vanishing dovecage?
Message: Posted by: Jeff Kellogg (May 4, 2005 12:10AM)
Just wondering who first performed/had this idea. Also, I'm wondering if it's game to add to my act, or not. Thanks So much,
Message: Posted by: damien666 (May 4, 2005 12:23AM)
I know that I have seen a bunch of people do it - it may have been James Cielen that was the first. But who knows for sure?
Message: Posted by: DaveWomach (May 4, 2005 11:24AM)
I came up with this idea when I was about 15. However, I cannot claim it to be my idea, as I have seen several people do it since I've put it in. I'm sure it's been around longer than me.

My thoughts are to say that it's fair game to use. Might wait until you hear some feadback from other people though.

Hope this helps!

Message: Posted by: dove-boy (May 5, 2005 12:10AM)
Hi Jeff :)

Do you mean using the leg to 'kick' the dove table away or....?

Just curious what is the meaning, Knee adjustment :)

Message: Posted by: Chris Toomey (May 6, 2005 12:50PM)
Hey Jeff. I assume you are referring to the subtlety some performers use after the cage is gone, but the audience still believes it is under the cloth. A quality Boston area magician named David Oliver uses it, and it would seem that others such as Dave Womach do as well. If it seems to be used by a number of performers, then I would imagine that it is in the public domain, but who knows for sure. I would suggest also considering different subtelties you could imply to feign weight. Good luck man. Catch ya later.

Chris Toomey
Message: Posted by: Bob Sanders (May 6, 2005 04:38PM)

If what Chris is describing is what you are talking about, it dates back prior to 1963. (Because I stole it from someone else who did not own it either!)

Therefore, I would say the move came from Europe prior to the 50s and maybe even the 20s! I expect it came from street circuses in Europe.

I wasn't even born until 1945, so I'm sure it predates me. By the 50's there were plenty of European magicians vanishing doves in large square cages. For some crazy reason many people don't believe a trick exists until they see it in some form or recording (movies, tapes, DVDs). As a former booking agent, I can promise you that many of the very top acts are never recorded (by their request). It helps keep their act, Their Act!

It is a good move. I quit using it because I have an old rodeo cowboy knee! Instead I act like I almost dropped it about four steps out. (That’s when Lucy throws a silk over the stand just in case things are not exactly flat.) I use it as much for “insurance” as anything else. It also makes a too short effect a little longer. With a live drummer it helps the show.

I think you are safe "changing your grip" on a prop anytime. To sue for that would take a true optimist. Think how many rodeo bull riders would get sued for copying the first one that ever got thrown?

Enjoy your magic!

Magic By Sander
Message: Posted by: Jeff Kellogg (May 9, 2005 01:54PM)
Hey toomey, how are ya? Classsy picture. Thanks for the input from all, I'd like to hear more if there's anyone out there who knows anything on the subject. I'm thinking of useing this subtlty. I've gotten coments leaning towards it being OK to use. Does anyone have any reasons why I should not use this move?
Message: Posted by: Amyxdove (May 9, 2005 05:22PM)
I have an old film of Channing doing that move. I hope all is well

Andy Amyx
Message: Posted by: Cielen (Mar 1, 2007 12:32AM)
Kicking the table into the wings as you walk forward with cage form under the cloth, is my move.

However, using your knee to apparently support the cage under the cloth as you walk forward has been around forever. I don't know who created it.
Message: Posted by: dove-boy (Mar 1, 2007 09:07AM)
Hi James Cielen :)

Great to see you in this forum....hope you can remember me..about 5-6 years back where I e-mail you advice for sleeve size & the birds on cruise(air conditioning)..thanks for the prompt reply :)

Yup, Cliff Wigg also credit you for the Kicking the table moves :)

Just a question: I saw your full bird act & enjoyed it very much....the colour changing bird really fools me :)....just curious is your cage from Cliff/Owen OR Nielsen ..for some reason...it seem to me the base is rather thin :)

Warmest Regards
dove-boy :)
Message: Posted by: Christopher Starr (Mar 2, 2007 06:57PM)
I can remember watching Siegfried do the knee adjustment. Apparently this is a fairly standard move, and one that seems to work!
Message: Posted by: kregg (Mar 5, 2007 07:31PM)
Okito probably did it with a water bowl or a duck cage.