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Topic: Question on live loads.
Message: Posted by: qwism (May 22, 2005 07:21AM)
I haven't used live loads for the cups and balls before. I currently own dwarf hamsters which I've had before being into magic. There are two types, the syrian ones which everyone is probably more familiar with, the golden big one. and the dwarf hamsters.. has anyone worked with either? The dwarf ones are extremelly active, and they seem more suited. for smaller cups. or would the size even matter, because the load is after all hamsters. If I have to, I'll gladly pick up the bigger ones for the regular cups. I plan on doing this for just recreation for now, unless theres a kid show that maybe comes up or something of that sort


How would you load them ? any info pertaining to live loads would help.

And what other live loads would you recommend? besides baby chicks.


thanks,

hieu le
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (May 22, 2005 08:38AM)
Most of the hamsters I have dealt with have been very aggressive, that is, they had a tendency to bite. Mice work well as live loads. You need heavy cups, though, such as the Phoenix cups. Otherwise, the cups will tend to move around on the table.

I have a friend who claims he used a grass snake for a load in a chop cup.

Basically, you just stick them in there, like you would anything else.

Danny Dew made a special loader for the big cups, but he never marketed it.
Message: Posted by: Roland Henning (May 22, 2005 09:05AM)
I used to do a Chop Cup routine, in which I loaded a mouse. ("My little helper, which made it all possible") It pretty much feels like loading a little ball, but you have to grab them right, otherwise the wiggle and the tail might be outside the cup.

I stopped doing that because I stopped doing the Chop Cup. So no hamster experience from my side.
Message: Posted by: Dave V (May 22, 2005 10:22AM)
Gazzo has a story about his experience with live loads in his "Street Cups and Balls" book.

The short version is, it killed his hat. Everyone was too interested in the cute little things and payed virtually nothing.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (May 22, 2005 05:24PM)
You really do have to be careful with live loads. Jonny Fox used them at TRF and did well with them, but he put them away once he produced them.

If you leave them out, the people will mob the critters.
Message: Posted by: Father Photius (May 22, 2005 10:33PM)
Live loads in cups and balls? yeah I've seen it done, but talk about risky. You have to keep the load "calm" where you have it concealed on you, then calm in your hand, then calm under the cup, and calm on presentation. Considering the amount of training and handling that would take, I'd say most smaller animals aren't really up to it, like Bill suggested, possibly a mouse, but heaven help you if it bolts and gets away. I'd say a lot of trouble and expense for a final effect that isn't that much better than other large surprise loads that don't move, eat, and need their cages cleaned.
Message: Posted by: qwism (May 23, 2005 11:46AM)
great comments all of you, thank you
Message: Posted by: Sam Tabar (May 23, 2005 01:52PM)
You just have to handle them well so that no animal gets hurt when loaded into the cup. Speaking of live loads, I remember Gali Gali do the cups and balls with eggs and live chicks. He even loads two chicks in one cup.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (May 23, 2005 04:21PM)
And then he would flush them down the toilet after the show was over. They caught him doing that at the Rice Hotel in Houston at the IBM Convention in 1957. He was run off and never invited back.

Ross Bertram handled the chicks much better. So does Johnny Ace Palmer.
Message: Posted by: Spydur (May 24, 2005 05:35PM)
If you are gonna use live loads you want to make sure they are still alive. I have a friend that produced a dead bird. And he lost the audience right then and there. Not a good time to practice you spring puppet act with a dead brid that's for sure!

C
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (May 24, 2005 05:45PM)
A little jolt of electricity, and you could have "The Bride of Frankenstein!" ;)
Message: Posted by: Sam Tabar (May 24, 2005 06:09PM)
Man I didn't know Gali Gali did that to the chicks he uses with the cups and balls. That's a terrible way to dispose of them.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (May 24, 2005 10:21PM)
The clue that the Rice Hotel had was that the toilet kept stopping up.
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (May 24, 2005 10:29PM)
[quote]On 2005-05-23 17:21, Bill Palmer wrote:
Ross Bertram handled the chicks much better. So does Johnny Ace Palmer.[/quote]
Once when I was watching Johnny's routine one of the cups began to migrate slowly. Johnny put one finger on top and continued with the routine. For those of us who noticed it, it was pretty funny.
Message: Posted by: Dave V (May 25, 2005 01:29AM)
That also happened on one of his appearances on Dick Clark's variety show. A few people noticed, as evidenced by the stifled giggles. Johnny grinned at Dick briefly, and as S2000 noted, placed his hand on the cup and continued with the routine.

Along those same lines, who remembers the details about a practical joke involving Johnny and some bogus chick noises? Was this at a convention? Was David Williamson somehow involved?
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (May 25, 2005 03:05AM)
That was one of the reasons Bertram made the heavy cups. It was to keep the chicks from walking off with the applause. That can be the funniest part of the routine, though.
Message: Posted by: qwism (May 26, 2005 12:18AM)
Gali gali is one bad dude. he could've at least released them outdoors or something. better than his first option.
Message: Posted by: Sam Tabar (May 26, 2005 03:18AM)
Gali gali could've just donated them to a farm or petting zoo rather than flush it down a toilet.

[quote]
On 2005-05-24 23:29, S2000magician wrote:
[quote]On 2005-05-23 17:21, Bill Palmer wrote:
Ross Bertram handled the chicks much better. So does Johnny Ace Palmer.[/quote]
Once when I was watching Johnny's routine one of the cups began to migrate slowly. Johnny put one finger on top and continued with the routine. For those of us who noticed it, it was pretty funny.
[/quote]

That would be a mentalism act to add in the Cups and Balls routine. Imagine moving a brass cup effortlessly with just the power of your mind. :)
Message: Posted by: fccfp (May 26, 2005 05:08AM)
I agree with photius. Live losads on a regular basis are probably more trouble than they are worth for a closeup act. Doing them for a specil situation, however, ight be justified. A tv appearance where the camera can zoom in could make it worth while.

Re: Gali Gali, that is a really awful story. If it wasn't Bill telling us I would probably dismiss it. I have met people that have no respect for anything and it is usually suprising (shocking?) when I become aware of thier callus feelings.
Message: Posted by: Alan Munro (May 28, 2005 01:05AM)
I remember a competition act at the Columbus Magifest, who handled his doves with no regard for the animals. He even left some of his birds in the room, when they flew to the back of the ballroom. People like that give all magicians a bad rap.
Message: Posted by: qwism (May 28, 2005 03:05AM)
Can you imagine a known magician treating doves or chicks horribly in this current time? They'd reputation would be shot
Message: Posted by: Julie (May 28, 2005 01:13PM)
[quote]
On 2005-05-24 18:45, Bill Palmer wrote:
A little jolt of electricity, and you could have "The Bride of Frankenstein!" ;)
[/quote]

Bill, wouldn't that be the "BIRD of Frankenstein"? :)
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (May 28, 2005 01:54PM)
Actually, that would be closer. The post referred to a misspelling that was in the previous post. It has since been corrected, so the correction was also done to my post.
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (May 28, 2005 07:44PM)
I tried with my parakeet and also my horned lizard. Neither cared much for the fussing and I certainly would not try to carry them around. I got the parakeets book and read all the cautions about drafts and just can't do that to an animal.

Someday sombody clever may breed TINY rabbits or long eared mice that might be fun if they stayed small.

The stuff about breakign toes on the chicks etc is just too much for me.

And agreed about the loads being showstoppers. Expect the table to get rushed.
Message: Posted by: Whitewolfny (May 30, 2005 08:53AM)
I'm a lazy magician. I don't want hassels or hard work. To me, a live load is a lot of work. Not just for doing the the magic but taking care of the animal in between shows. It is, after all, a living breathing thing. I don't have the time to take care of the animal so I don't bother to use a live load. However, I do produce a dog and cat in my cup and ball routine. How do I do that you may ask?

I use little stuffed animals that are actually cat toys. They fit fine, they don't move the cups, they don't need to be walked or fed. After them I finish with my usual large ball production. People seem to like the little critters.
Message: Posted by: Bill Scarlett (May 30, 2005 07:13PM)
And have you ever tried to classic palm a hamster? No Thanks, I'll stick to little ridiculous crocheted balls.
Message: Posted by: Dougini (Jun 2, 2005 02:38PM)
Brianclementsvatua made a good point. "You just have to handle them well so that no animal gets hurt when loaded into the cup." Yep. A little foot sticking out from under, as you slam down the cup may not get past some people. They will think about that for the rest of your show.

qwism, that's why I mention this. Also, using livestock can cause unintentional comedy, in a show that my not supposed to be! Or, disgust, as in my case. About 25 years ago, I pulled a rabbit out a hat, merrily peeing away, and little pellets dropping...oh joy. And this was for a Ladies Club Luncheon, no less!

Another show (recently), the little white mouse I had produced from a glass of milk, jumped out of my hands and ran around the floor, causing a near riot...women screaming, jumping on folded chairs (and they folded up, dumping aforementioned ladies to the ground!)...I'm lucky I didn't get SUED! Ahhh, lessons learned...

Long live the spring animals! The rabbit version of Rocky Raccoon is the best rabbit IMO...looks real from a short distance. Judy The Mouse is good, albeit unanimated, but that defeats the purpose, doesn't it? :bg:

Doug
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jun 2, 2005 03:17PM)
Willard the Wizard used live parakeets in the vanishing bird cage. He never hurt a bird. The birds never pecked him, either. Bev Bergeron worked as his assistant and said that the birds used to peck the fire out of him when he would put them into the cage. Willard thought this was funny because he never had any trouble with them.

It's mentioned in [i]Willard the Wizard.[/i]
Message: Posted by: magicleland (Jan 12, 2006 03:02PM)
And have you ever tried to classic palm a hamster? No Thanks, I'll stick to little ridiculous crocheted balls.
yes with dwarf hamsters you can!