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Topic: What is missing
Message: Posted by: Stephen Buxton (Jun 8, 2005 05:05PM)
Hi! A bit of preamble first.

I recently had the fortune to be invited onto BBC Radio 4's programme Puzzle Panel (a brilliant show that very few people have heard of), and I thought you good people might enjoy having a go at the puzzle I wrote for that programme:

---

A friend of mine at work, Stewart, writes poetry in his spare time. They are really quite good, and it has inspired me to write one of my own. I mean, how hard can it be? After all, modern poetry doesn't need to rhyme... or even make sense. So I wrote a poem, which I called "The Fens":

Go near low Ely to live
The ogre enraged blew so rapidly
Ely darkens

I showed it to Stewart, and he said "What on earth was THAT???". I asked for a better critique, and he said "Initial thoughts, sounds good. A bit of a mix, with hidden meaning too. But you did miss something". I had a look at the poem again, and saw that he was right. What had I missed?
Message: Posted by: stanalger (Jun 8, 2005 07:22PM)
I'd go in!
Message: Posted by: Stephen Buxton (Jun 9, 2005 01:14PM)
Spot on! Just out of curiosity, how easy did you find it?
Message: Posted by: Patrick Differ (Jun 9, 2005 02:28PM)
Confused.
Please explain.
Message: Posted by: Stephen Buxton (Jun 9, 2005 03:36PM)
I'll send a PM, in case anyone else want's to solve it without hints
Message: Posted by: ziatro (Jun 9, 2005 05:19PM)
[quote]
On 2005-06-09 14:14, Stephen Buxton wrote:
Spot on! Just out of curiosity, how easy did you find it?
[/quote]


Maybe more people listen to puzzle panel than you realise. Repeats can be heard on the B.B.C. radio website.
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Jun 9, 2005 06:47PM)
Was there a letter of the alphabet you did not use? The letter 'c' perhaps?
Message: Posted by: stanalger (Jun 10, 2005 12:15AM)
[quote]
On 2005-06-09 18:19, ziatro wrote:
[quote]
On 2005-06-09 14:14, Stephen Buxton wrote:
Spot on! Just out of curiosity, how easy did you find it?
[/quote]


Maybe more people listen to puzzle panel than you realise. Repeats can be heard on the B.B.C. radio website.
[/quote]

I assure you that I had never seen (or heard) this puzzle before I saw Stephen's
post. And it never crossed my mind to go looking for a B.B.C. radio website.

Hats off to good puzzle constructors. A well designed puzzle should be neither
too easy nor too hard. I think Stephen did an excellent job with this one.

There are several puzzles currently posted in this forum which I have heard
before. Even though I solved two of them on my own BEFORE hearing the solutions,
I haven't posted the solutions because I don't want to spoil the fun.

Perhaps I'm being too defensive. Perhaps ziatro is saying others HAVE
heard this puzzle on B.B.C. and are not posting solutions because THEY
don't want to be spoilers.

I wasn't going to post my solution to Tyler Magician's "Weekly NPR Puzzle,"
but Tyler suggested that I do. I waited for the submission deadline to pass
before doing so. On Sunday morning I'll listen to the NPR program and find
out if my "answer" is the one Will Shortz is looking for.

Now if only someone could finish off the Patrick Differ "Verse of Rhyme"
post from way back on April 29. Aha! I just noticed a clue was
recently added.

Stan
Message: Posted by: ziatro (Jun 10, 2005 05:02AM)
Hi Stan I was putting this forward as a possibility, and certainly did not mean to offend. Very well done.
Message: Posted by: stanalger (Jun 10, 2005 09:12AM)
Last night I wrote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now if only someone could finish off the Patrick Differ "Verse of Rhyme"
post from way back on April 29. Aha! I just noticed a clue was
recently added.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

This morning I realized that we are now in the month of June. So
scratch that "recently."

Stan Alger
human calendar
Message: Posted by: flobiwan (Jun 11, 2005 01:04AM)
Stephen - can you give a hint?

Fredd
Message: Posted by: Stephen Buxton (Jun 11, 2005 10:15AM)
Sure - the critique is the key to solving. If you do cryptic crosswords, the phrasing is something you might recognise
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Jun 11, 2005 09:35PM)
Can you prove both the existance and uniqueness of the answer you wish us to seek?

Consider the text as read by an non native speaker of the language. What needs to be presumed as both present and meaningful for the question to have meaning?
Message: Posted by: Stephen Buxton (Jun 12, 2005 10:52AM)
I think I get what you're asking...

The answer is unique. It helps if you understand English to be able to understand the Critique, but to be honest, the words in the poem are fairly meaningless. Never-the-less, it is from the poem that you will be able to determine what isn't there.

Starting point: "A bit of a mix" implies anagrams. Indeed, there are three anagrams within the poem
Message: Posted by: Stephen Buxton (Jun 15, 2005 03:07PM)
As a newbie here, I am not too sure what the etiquette is about posting solutions. Should I post the solution, as no one has posted here for a while, should I invite anyone to post the answer if they know it, (and there is at least one out there) or should I wait until there is renewed interest in this puzzle?
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Jun 15, 2005 03:10PM)
[quote]
On 2005-06-12 11:52, Stephen Buxton wrote:...Starting point: "A bit of a mix" implies anagrams. [/quote]

Starting a legitimate critique:

To whom does "a bit of a mix" imply anagrams?
Message: Posted by: stanalger (Jun 15, 2005 03:59PM)
[quote]
On 2005-06-15 16:10, Jonathan Townsend wrote:

To whom does "a bit of a mix" imply anagrams?


[/quote]

It worked for me. But I'm a mixed-up fellow.

Stan Alger
Message: Posted by: TomasB (Jun 16, 2005 12:34AM)
It did for me too, together with the fact that the sentences sound like those incoherent anagrams you often get when trying to make them, but I still couldn't find out what the anagrams are.

/Tomas
Message: Posted by: Stephen Buxton (Jun 16, 2005 12:48PM)
To help close this off - the first line of the poem consists of three anagrams. The "hidden meaning" is on line two, as is the "sounds good". "Initial thoughts" relates across lines 2 and 3
Message: Posted by: flobiwan (Jun 17, 2005 11:51PM)
I finally got it with a little help from a friend of mine - Roy G. Biv!

Fredd
Message: Posted by: fredrux (Jun 18, 2005 03:32PM)
"I, dingo"
is what my australian wild dog introduces himself with.

?

Fredrik Jakobsson
Message: Posted by: Stephen Buxton (Jun 21, 2005 01:19PM)
Well done!

Anyone else got there yet?
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Jun 21, 2005 01:58PM)
If you mean making nonsense words and phrases, then expecting others to puzzle over them... yes, done with that back before I learned to write. Thankfully. ;)

Is Blew the past tense of Blue? what do we have left when nothing rhymes with Orange?
Message: Posted by: Stephen Buxton (Jun 21, 2005 04:18PM)
Blew does equal Blue, not that way, though. More a homophone ("sounds good"), really.

Nothing in this poem rhymes with orange, but orange is there all the same
Message: Posted by: mike paris (Jun 21, 2005 04:19PM)
Yep, I got it,mike
Message: Posted by: Stephen Buxton (Jul 14, 2005 05:12PM)
The Poem:

Go near low Ely to live
The ogre enraged blew so rapidly
Ely darkens

The clues (critique)

"Initial thoughts, sounds good. A bit of a mix, with hidden meaning too. But you did miss something".

Initial letters of the last three words: R E D

Sounds good: Blew = BLUE

A bit of a mix: Go near (ORANGE)low Ely (YELLOW) to live (VIOLET)

Hidden word: oGRE ENraged

What was missing? The other colour of the rainbow - INDIGO
Message: Posted by: blazes816 (Jul 14, 2005 05:17PM)
Ha. Id go in. clever.