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Topic: Table hopping Chop Cup or 3-Cup Routine?
Message: Posted by: q (Oct 16, 2002 02:38PM)
How's it going guys,

I was wondering if any of you use a Chop Cup or 3-Cup and Balls/Combo Cup routine table hopping?

I want to do something along this nature but my biggest concern is putting the cups on their table?

Also, I'm wondering what you guys use as final loads?

Message: Posted by: Lithix (Oct 16, 2002 02:48PM)
I saw a guy use rubber eyeballs once... :idea:
Message: Posted by: q (Oct 16, 2002 02:57PM)
Yay a reply!

and cool.

Were the cups put on the table?
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Oct 16, 2002 03:19PM)
I cannot imagine a 3-cup routine at a table:

It takes up too much room. If it's good it will take up too much time. How are you going to close a 3-cup routine when the dinner arrives?

I think a one-cup routine is perfect, why not a chop cup.

In that case, I cannot stand most chop cup patter I've seen. Or, cup and ball patter for that matter.

An exception is John Bannon's "Chop 2", spoken "chop squared" (or is it chop chop)?

Anyway, his patter is great, it just one cup.
The routine makes sense, etc.

I think that his routine is an eye-opener as far as proper chop cup theory goes.

Several routines I've read really don't make sense to me. For instance, you should not take a little red ball put it in your pocket, show both hands empty and then viola, there it is under the cup. You also should not have to lift up a chop cup just to re-set it back down as in those "I can make it appear anywhere" versions.

When I started to read the patter for the effect, I said to myself, "Finally something I can use. What a relief."

I'm not saying I won't change things here or there but the basic idea and the thought behind it are superb and well thought out.

He also has a 3 cup routine that is also wonderful in terms of patter, and construction but don't use tablehopping.

How can you not want to use patter that starts something like this. "Here's a mystery with 3 cups and a little red fuzzball. I found it in the clothes dryer. It used to be socks." :rotf:

Both effects are found in his book Impossibilia and though I loathe the following phrase I'll say it anyway because this time it really is true...

I think both effects are worth the price of the book.

On another note (and what would a post of mine be without another note) I also like Mark Jenest's Jiggernaut, which he presents as a pocket sobriety test using an olive and a "jigger" from a bar. Again, it makes sense, it's fun, and it's unique. You can find this effect on his video "Miracles While You Wait". It's an effect You Will Do!

Don't you hate when people tell you what "You Will Do?"

Notice I'm not saying this trick is worth the price of the video (even though it is) because once in a post is far too much for that phrase.

Message: Posted by: q (Oct 16, 2002 03:26PM)
"because once in a post is far too much for that phrase. "


Thanks for the input, I as well hate the idea of oh look for the umptenth time I'm putting the ball somewhere and look its back under the cup!

Jiggernaut seems phat I'll pickup that video thanks bro. You've earned..

One pat on the back! *WHOMP*

It's gotta be,
Message: Posted by: Kaliix (Oct 16, 2002 05:37PM)
Well Frank beat me to it, as I was going to recommend Jiggernaut. This routine has never let me down in the restaurant. It has always been well received. And it is just about the right length for that type of routine.

Jennest's "Miracles While You Wait" video is excellent, not only for Jiggernaut, but also for a couple of other routines on the video. I use Short Hop in the restaurant as well and have used Billusion and Chap Trick in the past. Short Hop is an excellent little hopping half routine.

If you are going to assemble Jiggnaut yourself, here are a few tips. Find a jigger that is tall and thin versus short and fat. The taller ones hold a bigger final load (corks). Excellent looking fake olives can be made from the fake soft plastic grapes you can find at any craft store (i.e. Jo Ann's Fabrics or Michael's).

Just cut a hole in the top and insert a piece of red sponge ball and voilŠ, you've got an olive. Also, if you lightly coat the inside of the jigger with talc every once in a while, the olives and corks will be less likely to stick.

The other great advantage to Jiggernaut is that the jigger takes up very little pocket room and resets the moment you put everything back in your pocket.

Can you tell I like this routine a lot!?! :)

I recently saw a clip of Carl Andrews two cup restaurant cups and balls routine and it looked very good as well. If you want to do a more standard cups and balls routine, this would definitely be worth looking into, as is just about anything Carl puts out.

Another option is the [url=http://www.mindspring.com/~deloomis/dai.html]James Riser/Dennis Loomis Micro Chop Cup[/url]. The cups look fabulous and the routine is done completely in the hands so there are no worries about having to use the table. (I have never had a problem using the table, opinions may vary, take it for what it's worth)
Message: Posted by: q (Oct 16, 2002 06:31PM)
What dealer did you get Miracles While You wait from?
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Oct 16, 2002 07:43PM)
Hey Kaliix,
I like your idea for making an olive. I'll have to experiment.

but where would any of us magicians ever find some red sponge to stuff in the hole? ;)
Message: Posted by: KingStardog (Oct 17, 2002 10:07AM)
Look at the Riser set. It's full of surprises and comes with a great routine. Everything happens in your hand, so there are no table worries. Its like the one I use only 10 times better.
Message: Posted by: Dennis Loomis (Oct 17, 2002 05:11PM)
Hello all,
I just discovered this thread and as the topic of cups and balls and chop cups is near and dear to my heart, I'll share my reactions to what some of you have said.

As some of you may recall, I published my Cups and Balls routine many years ago. All remaining copies are now at L & L Publishing and it remains in their catalog. However, early on I found that I just didn't have the venues where I could do "sit down" magic. The Magic Castle, sure... magic conventions, sure... but not often in the real world. At least, not for me.

And so, I started to think about a one-cup routine, which led to the Chop Cup and practicality led to using a small one. Less bulk in the pocket. At first I used the cup on the table, the way I'd always seen it done. But then I had a strolling engagement where tables were few and far between.

Out of necessity, the idea of using the Chop Cup totally in the hands was born. (Perhaps others had thought of it before me, but it was a new idea to me.) Immediately I began to discover the other advantages. The ball does not talk when you release it onto your fingers. And, you always know whether it released or not because you can feel it.

But there's one more, fairly subtle, reason, which addresses what fstarsinic mentions in one of his posts. He's absolutely right, IMHO, one should not have to lift the cup up and set it down for no apparent reason just to release the ball. It's downright suspicious and may lead your audience to the solution. And, if the cup is sitting on the table, it's hard to come up with that reason. BUT, if the cup is sitting on your hand, all you need to do is to create a "reason" for using that hand.

Then the other hand can lift the cup, temporarily, and when the cup is replaced, the release can occur. There are many such "reasons." Just the process of making a gesture as you are speaking is all it takes. I often "adjust" my glasses while speaking and the hand holding the cup is freed up for this by lifting the cup from above with the other hand. This also suggests that the cup is empty without making it an issue.

And so, my routine with the tiny Chop Cup was begun. Years ago a very small Chop Cup was on the market, but it had some disadvantages. Nevertheless, I used it for many years before the idea of combining the Chop Cup routine with the vanishing glass of liquid or "Squash" was born.

And so now I had a finale for my routine. I was just thrilled when James Riser asked me if I would work with him on the design of a very small Chop Cup which we would bring to the world of magic with my routine as the "instruction book." At last I would have a very tiny Chop Cup I could be proud of.

His designs were, indeed, everything I could hope for, and I'm thrilled that many others have agreed with me about the quality of his craftsmanship. Thanks to Kaliis and to KingStarDog for their positive comments in this thread about Jim's Cups and my routine.

Finally, I just want to agree with what fstarsinic said about John Bannon's refreshing patter and presentation. Too often, magicians don't think enough about what they are going to say while doing the tricks they practice in total silence. And when they get in front of an audience, what come out are not only non-sensical, but also just plain dull.

I'm thinking about creating an area on my Website devoted to novel ideas and uses for Chop Cups generally, and the little Loomis/Riser Micro chop specifically. If any of you have any thoughts to share, I'd love to hear from you.

Feel free to drop by my site, and don't feel obligated to buy anything.
Message: Posted by: Nicodemus (Oct 18, 2002 11:05AM)
Has anyone seen or used the Paul Wilson Chop Cup routine from his restaurant DVD ? Any opinions ?
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Oct 18, 2002 11:47AM)
Yes, Iíve seen it. Itís not bad. I like it. Itís quick. Itís fun. You might try to find a bargain copy of VHS instead of DVD if you want to save money.

I think the cup he uses is nice looking. it's a wide mouth Don Alan Cup. I found one that looks like it from Ickle Pickle and bought it just for the look.

Anyway, the Wilson routine is worth looking at. Itís not amazing but better than average, and it added some things to my list of Chop Cup moves. He uses an easy technique for his False Transfer instead of a French Drop.
Message: Posted by: q (Oct 18, 2002 08:47PM)
Dennis Loomis,

Your idea sounds cool but, I dislike the idea of putting it in your hand because I feel a major strength of the chop cup is that you are putting the ball away or disappearing it or performing some miracle under a cup that is away from you. Psychologically it sends the message:

Nothing can change what is under the cup with out my magic.

But if it's in your hands, people think it's some faster then the eye thing. The cup away from you makes it seem more magicical, at least to me. (You sort of mentioned this)

However, micro cups are something you bring up I like.

Regarding the Paul Wilson Chop Cup routine whatís the name of the video/DVD?
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Oct 18, 2002 09:50PM)
The video is called "The Restaurant Act"

It's an entire table-hopping act consisiting of,

Silk and TT
the Long Card
Chop Cup

seems like one other thing like sponge balls or something.
Message: Posted by: Dennis Loomis (Oct 21, 2002 02:34PM)
To "q"

We all see things differently, and that's good. But, I beg to differ with you. I feel it's stronger to do the effect in your hand. Incidently, Gene Anderson not only agrees with me, but it's his major reason for liking the Micro Chop Routine.

However, the practical advantages are obvious: If you plan to do the Chop Cup routine on a table, you have to be performing in situations where you have a table. If not, you can't do it. And, you also have to carry a close up pad. (The ball falling to the table "talks" if you don't.)

There are performers who always work at tables and always use a pad. But I just don't happen to be one of them. Most of my close up work is strolling where there are often no tables. And, even when tables are present, clearing away space to put down a pad is not always an option. So, even when I'm entertaining at tables (Banquets) I perform standing and don't carry a pad.

Most lay people assume that much close up magic depends on speed. The old saying that the hand is quicker than the eye is really not true, but lay people don't know that. I don't know how we can change that, but we can at least try to be slow and clear in our movements.
Dennis Loomis
Message: Posted by: KingStardog (Oct 21, 2002 03:36PM)
I tried the mega final load in my micro cup and its a deadly miracle. Of course my critic (wife) gets all of the miracles first.
It completly blew her away since she has watched me practice with the micro cup on many occasions. She spent at least 10 minutes trying to figure out how a ball bigger than the cup could come out of the inside of it. The more she tried the madder she got. :lol:
Message: Posted by: Stefan Rupar (Oct 21, 2002 08:06PM)
In my routine, I use a chop cup I made from a Coca Cola paper cup and some Wal Mart Mags.

I HATE magicstore looking cups. For balls, I use one gimmicked and one ungimmicked rubber lemmons which look very real.

My final load is one tiny crocheted ball.

I'm just wierd that way.
Message: Posted by: Maxx (Oct 23, 2002 06:43AM)
I have worked out a two cup routine, which can easily be performed in restaurants or while doing table hopping. I agree that three cups take too much space, but most tables are big enough to place two cups on them. I also use three final loads: A sponge ball, a rubber ball and a knot made out of three ropes. When the sponge ball appears, people always think that this is easy to do because you can make it very small. while they are telling me this I make the rubber ball appear, so they know it does not depend on the size. The knot made out of blue rope is my suprise in the end, and it offers some possibilities for your patter.

Message: Posted by: Dennis Loomis (Oct 24, 2002 09:28AM)
To Maxx,
Do you unknot the rope(s) knot and do some rope magic? Seems logical.
Dennis Loomis
Message: Posted by: antonuccio (Oct 29, 2002 07:04AM)
May I suggest Skinner's "Rub-a-dub-dub" as a 3-cups routine for the sophisticated table hopper? You can find it in Genii, November 2000 issue. You can use both for children and adults. It's great!
Message: Posted by: shobley (Oct 30, 2002 02:47PM)
I have a question about the Chop Cup.

How long before I get the final loading sequences down? :)

I've been practicing for a few weeks now, and whenever I look at a video tape of myself I'm doing a poor job of loading

Anyone have any tips for the final load?
Types of load to practice with, mental preparation, body language etc...?

Message: Posted by: mjmoretz (Oct 30, 2002 10:59PM)
Perhaps the video is disheartening because you know where to look. Be sure that you are looking at the audience or somewhere else during the final load.

Practice without ceasing your hand's movement during the final load, examining angles with a critical eye. Don't rush the final load, or it may minimize your misdirection. Good luck.
Message: Posted by: Dennis Loomis (Oct 31, 2002 10:35AM)
To Shobley,

This is a tough question. It's hard to know when your loads become deceptive. Certainly you can't tell by watching yourself perform it on tape... you know when the loads occur. And your brother magicians are also too knowledgeable about this kind of thing. You almost have to do it for some lay people and then try to gauge their reaction.

Ask them point blank if they know where the big balls came from. Adults can be very polite and not want to tell us these things in fear of hurting our feelings. Kids will be brutally honest about it.

I can give you some guidance on books, tapes, etc. But tell me, what kind of routine are you doing? Seated? Standing? What kind of Chop Cup are you using? Are you loading from your lap? Pockets? Elsewhere?

One thing I can say right now is this. If when you are getting to that point in the routine where you have to do the loads you find yourself getting nervous or aprehensive... dreading having to do it... etc., it's a sure sign that you are not yet ready.

Do not rush this. This is something that you will get a feel for in actual performances over a period of time. When you get to where you understand how the technique and the misdirection work together and get comfortable with it, and have the confidence that comes from knowing you are fooling people you will have a powerful tool to use in many ways in your magic.

PM me, if you like, and I'll try to help more with specifics.
Dennis Loomis
Message: Posted by: MikeM (Oct 31, 2002 12:15PM)
On 2002-10-16 15:38, q wrote:

I was wondering if any of you use a Chop Cup or 3-cup/combo cup routine table hoppin?


I much prefer a one cup routine - you might like to try and get hold of The Chop Cup book by Mark Wilson - The Nelson Chop Cup Routine plays well.

I based my routine around this with the addition of a magnetic wand for one or two variations.


:bikes: :bikes
Message: Posted by: ASW (Nov 2, 2002 05:40PM)
I have to disagree with the standard wisdom expressed on this subject. I think that in banquet shows where you have circular tables that seat 10 people it is entirely possible to perform a 3 cup routine as the climax of your act.

The problem is that the audience control/prestige you need to impose on the table space can only come with experience and age. When I first started in restaurants 10 years ago it would have been difficult to impose on the table space - but these days it's not a problem for me.

I don't do a 3 cup routine, but I do perform a card act that uses a LARGE amount of table space. I simply begin by doing in the hands effects, then use a small amount of table space for the next effect and, once the audience is wrapped up in the show, I hint at the nature of the next effect and announce that I will need more space to accomplish it. The people are only too willing to clear the table space, because they WANT to see the effect. (Mind you, this is usually after the main course, when most of the cutlery is cleared away).

It also helps if you have a confident style - the fact is, I know what's good for my audiences (you MUST believe this to be able to control people). Even if one person is miffed at the imposition, if you blow them away all will be forgiven.

Johnny Ace Palmer performs a 3 cup table hopping (ie, standing working from the pockets) routine on his tapes and it is OUTSTANDING. That handling would be fine for the type of shows I'm talking about. (I haven't seen the other two tapes, and they received a lot of bad press on magic boards, but this handling is killer).

By the way, I use a Chop Cup routine as a closer in these shows. I use the table but not a mat. Most of these banquet tables have thick padding under the thick white table cloth. You can do even the most complex card shuffle material on these surfaces - the same as if you had a good card mat.

If there is no padding, I simply place the velvet Chop Cup bag on the table (my mother in law made me a plush royal blue bag, God bless her!) and I use that as the surface.

Message: Posted by: MikeM (Nov 3, 2002 05:58PM)
George Devol disagrees with the standard of wisdom expressed on this subject.

George wisdom is subjective particularly if you don't perform a 3 cup routine.

Believe me I've performed three cup routines in a working environment
and still prefer the one cup approach particularly if it is done as a tongue in cheek challenge to the audience - it focus's their attention on the one cup and lend itself to bags of audience participation - never fails to get laughs and resounding cheers if properly presented.

:bikes: :bikes:
Message: Posted by: q (Nov 3, 2002 08:37PM)
One cup routines tend to lead themselves to a "look the ball is going here but yet its not and its back under the cup for the 100th time" which is what I dislike about them
Message: Posted by: Elwood (Nov 4, 2002 05:51AM)
q says:"One cup routines tend to lead themselves to a "look the ball is going here but yet its not and its back under the cup for the 100th time" which is what I dislike about them."

Shorten your routine and use a really impressive final load then!
Message: Posted by: Nicodemus (Nov 4, 2002 08:36AM)
" Q " Get the Riser / Loomis Micro Chop Cup routine and I strongly beleive you will sing another tune. The final vanish of the liquid is dynamite and totally unexpected.
And considering it is a routine that Mr. Loomis has done for many many years I would have to say it qualifies as a "Worker".
Message: Posted by: Dennis Loomis (Nov 4, 2002 08:55AM)
To Nicodemus,
Thanks so much for the plug.

To Elwood,
I agree with you about keeping your routine short. Probably the greatest Chop Cup Routine of all times was Don Alans. The whole thing ran 99 seconds!

To Q,
I agree that most routines can benefit from other effects. Just having the ball appear under the cup over and over can get boring. Limit that effect to three times at most, IMHO. But, also, take a look at all of the other effects that have been created with the Chop Cup. There are several good penetration effects you can do. Some involve a silk, a shot glass, or both.

Check out the Merlyn Shute Book, the Larry Jennings Routine, and the Camirand Academy "Two Goblets Routine." There are some good color changes you can do. Check out Aldo Columbini's "Laser Cup" routine for a great one. The final loads can be all kinds of things, virtually anything that will fit into your cup.

Finally, consider that the final loads may not have to be the end. I do a sequence of juggling with the cup and the two final load balls, and then vanish the cup. Remember, the Chop Cup is merely a prop. It doesn't have an imagination. The performer does. If a routine is unimaginative... don't blame the props!

If you would like to see pictures of the Riser/Loomis Micro Chop Cups, feel free to visit my web site at:
Dennis Loomis
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Nov 4, 2002 01:43PM)
where do I acquire the Don Allen Routine?

Q, you should look at John Bannon's Routine In impossibilia for a different approach.

I want to get the Dennis Loomis Routine but I just started performing the Bannon routine and I don't want to have to start all over with a different one just yet. Those little cups are just so cute!!!

Message: Posted by: ASW (Nov 4, 2002 06:32PM)
"George Devol disagrees with the standard of wisdom expressed on this subject."

No Mike, not the standard, or quality of the wisdom expressed in this thread (as you imply) - but the 'standard wisdom' - that is the accepted view, commonly regurgitated. If somebody didn't disagree with you, it'd be a boring old world...

"George wisdom is subjective particularly if you don't perform a 3 cup routine."

Yes it is, and we are all entitled to express our subjective views... even me. But if you're saying my view is invalid because I don't do a 3 cup routine, then go back and re-read my post. What I'm saying is, the common wisdom that 3 cups take up too much space, making it impractical to perform is not necessarily true. As an example I cite the fact that I do card routines that take up a large area of space (more, in fact than is required for a 3 cup routine). My comments are thus based in experience...

"Believe me, I've performed three cup routines in a working environment and still prefer the one cup approach, particularly if it is done as a tongue in cheek challenge to the audience - it focus's their attention on the one cup and lends itself to bags of audience participation - never fails to get laughs and resounding cheers if properly presented."

As I mentioned, I also do a chop cup and it gets great reactions. However, I'd bet that the Palmer routine with three cups would get equal or better reactions after you reveal four loads.

But I think that the chop cup is hard to beat and you would need to use a streamlined routine with clarity of effect - not too much stuff with the small balls before the final loads. Having said that, it also depends on the performer - I think that, even with the strongest chop cup routine, it would be hard to beat the reaction Mike Skinner got on the Tonight Show when he performed the Vernon routine with tea cups, a butter knife and cherries.

Again, as you note - these views are subjective.

Message: Posted by: Dennis Loomis (Nov 4, 2002 09:41PM)
To Frank,
The Don Alan routine is explained in detail, including all of his patter in Jon Racherbaumer's book: "In a Class by Himself: the Legacy of Don Alan." Most magic shops handle it.
While I am not a book dealer, if you can't find it, let me know and I can get it for you. Just PM me if you wish.
The Don Alan Routine is also on Don Alan's Greater Magic Video Library Tape which you can get through Joe Stevens.
Dennis Loomis
Message: Posted by: Brad Burt (Nov 5, 2002 03:01PM)

I've done the Chop Cup for almost 25 years and it's a great Table trick, IF, you have the proper situation. Obviously you need the tables to have enough room to handle at least a small table hopper style pad, etc.

I used a regular size cup and my final loads were two hard and solid juggling balls that fit perfectly in my cup. For the record and what's it worth, I tried out the small shot glass size cup and stopped using them right away. I noticed that the EFFECT upon the audience was much, MUCH less dramatic than the larger cup. I don't have a problem carrying the cup as I use a Doctor's Bag with a Eureka Table Base on the bottom.

By the by: If you are looking for a GREAT close-up case you should check out a standard Doctor's bag. The reason is easy: When the bag is open it is the exact same size and displacement as when closed. Think about that really carefully. Open almost any other style of bag (most men's shaving kits fall into the Doc bag style) and the lid gets in the way! A shaving kit is obviously a shaving kit and doesn't give the correct message in my opinion. BUT, a Doctor's Bag is mysterious just by dint of being a
'Doctor's' Bag! It gets attention and in the over 20 years of using one I can tell you the attention is always positive and provokes the response that you want doing walk around.

Brad Burt
Message: Posted by: Nicodemus (Nov 5, 2002 04:25PM)
While the doctor's bag is a possible solution to carrying close-up magic, it seems a bit bulky for the restaurant venue?
How about using a waiters pouch as Bob Sheets does for his cups & balls routine?
Any opinions or input? Please.
Message: Posted by: rvigon (Nov 5, 2002 04:54PM)
Hi, has anyone here heard of the great English magician called Paul Daniels, his shop cup routine is the best I've ever seen with his fast paced patter and stale humor.

If any of you guys get a chance to see it DO :cups:
Message: Posted by: Dennis Loomis (Nov 6, 2002 04:30PM)
To Brad,
I respect you a great deal, but my experience has been different. I get a very strong response from the tiny chop cup. In the work I do, tables are just not available a lot of the time. I do the chop cup routine entirely in my hands and out of my pockets, and just needed to get the bulk down. The very small size accomplishes that. In my work, it would be difficult to carry any kind of a bag around, especially one on a stand. If it works for you, however, great.
To Nicodemus. Yeah, the doctor's bag seems a little bulky to me, but then I work close up entirely out of my pockets. I bring in my close up case and find a place to stash it for the event. Then, I occasionally go back to it and change out some of the things in my pockets if time allows me to go back to some of the same folks again. Apparently Brad has no trouble with this, and who know, if we tried it we might find our concerns unwarrented.
To rvigon,
Well I've certainly heard of Paul Daniels. In fact I got a couple of emails from him two weeks ago. I agree: his stand up stage version of the Chop Cup is probably the best one in the world right now. Much of it is his personality, of course.
Dennis Loomis
Message: Posted by: KingStardog (Nov 6, 2002 04:55PM)
Hey Dennis,

I am going off the subject here but saw a reference to the Riser Micro cups and balls on a wesite that had not been updated in a long time. Are these still sold? and if they are are the micro chops interchangable with the set?
Message: Posted by: Kaliix (Nov 7, 2002 06:46AM)
On 2002-11-04 09:55, Dennis Loomis wrote:
To Elwood,
I agree with you about keeping your routine short. Probably the greatest Chop Cup Routine of all times was Don Alans. The whole thing ran 99 seconds!

To Q,
I agree that most routines can benefit from other effects. Just having the ball appear under the cup over and over can get boring. Limit that effect to three times at most, IMHO. But, also, take a look at all of the other effects that have been created with the Chop Cup. There are several good penetration effects you can do. Some involve a silk, a shot glass, or both. Check out the Merlyn Shute Book, the Larry Jennings Routine, and the Camirand Academy "Two Goblets Routine." There are some good color changes you can do. Check out Aldo Columbini's "Laser Cup" routine for a great one. The final loads can be all kinds of things, virtually anything that will fit into your cup.

Keeping in mind what you stated above, what is your routine like? I am not asking for a detailed explanation, just more of an overview of what types of things your routine has in it? And about how long does it run?

I do Jiggernaut currently and absolutely love the routine for my restaurant work. The Riser cups look very nice and I am tempted to purchase one. However I want to have an idea of what your routine is like, as doing it completely in the hands seems like it might be somewhat limiting?

Any comments?

Message: Posted by: Dennis Loomis (Nov 7, 2002 08:44AM)
To Kingstardog,
Certainly Jim Riser still makes and sells his Mini Riser Cups. And a lot of other wonderful produces. Go to his site at:
to read about his creations.
To Kaliix,
My routine is also short and follows the plot of the original Don Alan Routine. However what distinguishes it is the cleanliness of the final loads, their large size as compared to the cup, and the novelty of ending by vanishing the cup (shot glass) after pouring yourself a drink. I also often do a sequence of juggling with the cup and the two final load balls, and when I have a coat with a topit, the final loads balls vanish while I'm juggling.
Dennis Loomis
Message: Posted by: ringmaster (May 22, 2019 07:57PM)
I use this
A mini combo set. It kills. Scott tells me it works as well with a full size set.
Message: Posted by: jnork (May 29, 2019 08:17PM)
David Williamsonís 2 cup routine is my go-to. Itís been a long time since Iíve used it and I just ended up picking up some cups from rings and things to put it back in the act. I use limes as the final load. The advantage of his routine is it can be done with tea cups, coffee mugs or even cocktail shakers. Itís fairly impromptu if you have the right set of stacking cups. I remember cobbling together the routine one Christmas Eve at a bar out of cocktail shakers, rolled up dollar bills and a butter knife. The bar obviously had lemons.
Message: Posted by: Gerald Deutsch (May 29, 2019 09:29PM)
I posted ďThe Sponge Ball/ Cup Routine on the Perverse Magic thread of the Genii Forum on April 2, 2004 (page 31 of the Gerald Deutsch Perverse Magic book).

This routine is a combination from the routines of Slydini, Roy Benson, and Dr. Jaks and has elements of Perverse Magic.


The routine is done seated with the audience facing the performer.

1 A cup (or bowl) is shown empty and placed on the table.

2 A bagless purse frame is shown and a sponge ball is produced from it.

3 The ball vanishes and is shown under the cup.

4 That ball is covered by the cup and another ball is produced from the purse frame.

5 That ball is vanished and 2 balls are shown under the cup.

6 The magician puts one ball in his left hand and puts a pen in his left hand and a second ball is taken in his right hand which takes the other end of the pen.

The magician shows that the ball is no longer in the left hand and there are now 2 balls in the right hand - one ball having gone through the pen.

7 This is repeated but although there is no ball in the left hand, there is only one in the right hand. The magician looks puzzled and then looks under the cup and finds the missing ball. He scratches his head in confusion.

8 The magician tells the spectator that her hand will be the cup. On ball is given to the spectator and the magician takes the other. The magician's ball vanishes and the spectator has 2.

9 The spectator is given both balls and the magician looks in the purse for another. He finds only a tissue. He looks in his pocket but still can't find another. Finally, he asks the spectator to open her hand and she finds she has 3.

10 The spectator is asked to pick up 2 and the magician takes 1. The magician vanishes his ball and tells the spectator to open her hand and when she does a dozen or so balls fall out much to the surprise of the spectator and the magician.
Message: Posted by: ringmaster (Jun 16, 2019 02:26PM)
Gerald Deutsch Perverse Magic book) is the best buy of the year.