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Topic: Johnson flipper coin?
Message: Posted by: delgadil (Jun 23, 2005 11:52AM)
Is the Johnson 1964 Kennedy half flipper coin convincing enough to hand out for examination along with the "other" coins? I hear that Lassen's and Schoolcraft's are; I am wondering if Johnson also meets this criteria.

Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Jun 23, 2005 12:05PM)
One does not ordinarily hand out coin gaffs. Those very new to our craft may ask why this is so. Here then is a lesson best leaned early and with inexpensive coin gaffs:

Take your most fancy mechanical coin, say a locking dollar thirty five, or a flipper and bring it with you to a room where you have a hardwood or tiled floor. Also bring a non-gaffed coin. Hold the non-gaffed coin out at just above waist level and and close your eyes. Let the coin fall the floor and LISTEN to the sound. Those who need to may repeat this procedure with the gaffed coin and listen for the difference in sound.
Message: Posted by: delgadil (Jun 23, 2005 01:18PM)
I am not "new to the craft" - but I appreciate the feedback.

I agree one does not normally hand out gaffs, I was just wondering if
this could be an exception. Wherever possible I prefer to allow the
spectator to examine my props if so desired, although I routine things
and perform in such a way that this very rarely comes up.

Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Jun 23, 2005 01:34PM)
The Swadling flipper resists flopping thanks to it's special feature. The more recent "stays open" variety will likely expose its dangly bits when handled by strangers.
Message: Posted by: Rob Elliott (Jun 23, 2005 01:35PM)
I believe that Jon's point is that, even if the gaff itself stands up to scrutiny, your specator may inadvertently drop it and the sound of it hitting the floor could give you away (not to mention damage the gimmick).
Message: Posted by: delgadil (Jun 23, 2005 03:32PM)
On 2005-06-23 14:35, Rob Elliott wrote:
I believe that Jon's point is that, even if the gaff itself stands up to scrutiny, your specator may inadvertently drop it and the sound of it hitting the floor could give you away (not to mention damage the gimmick).

Yikes, good point!! I've had spectators drop my regular coins on rare occasion.

Message: Posted by: Mike Wild (Jun 23, 2005 07:01PM)
I'll add that the Johnson silver flippers actually bend quite easily. I've had two, and both bent out of shape simply from the process of adhering one peice to the other. The pressure that I applied was equal to the pressure that I use on any other coin gaff adhering projects I may undertake, so I have a feeling that the Johnson silver Kennedy flippers are milled out a little too thin on top.

I've had no such problems with the Flipper that I purchased from Todd L.


Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Jun 23, 2005 07:32PM)
Mike, folks, I would not want to drop any gaff onto a hard tiled floor. Even from a few feet, they shatter open and stuff goes flying. Even if you luck out, the noise is funny, so better to play safe.
Message: Posted by: Dan McLean (Jun 23, 2005 07:41PM)
I'm not sure any flipper - who ever makes it - is meant to be examined. The flap comes out too easily.
The only coin gaff I can think of that can stand an examine is an S&S.
And to add to Jonathan's post, drop a regular coin on the floor. Then drop a flipper coin you paid a gazillion dollars for on the floor. You won't be able to hear the tinny sound of the gaff over your screams.
Another good reason not to allow spectators to handle gaffs.
Message: Posted by: RC4MAG (Jun 24, 2005 06:33AM)
While on the flipper coin, does anyone have any tips on changing the rubber band?
Message: Posted by: Mike Wild (Jun 24, 2005 07:26AM)
Big piece first, then slide smaller piece into position ;)

I use two bands just in case. It takes about a day for them to stretch out enough so that the gaff deploys properly, but it's worth it.

Message: Posted by: delgadil (Jun 24, 2005 11:26AM)
Thanks for everyone's feedback. I'll check out the Johnson flipper when
it arrives in the mail -- if the effect I plan to use with it gets
great reactions, then I'll probably upgrade to a Lassen or Schoolcraft
flipper. The Johnson flipper will be my "training wheels" gaff. :)

Message: Posted by: Jaxon (Jun 24, 2005 01:15PM)
For those who feel it's not good to place a gaffed coin in a spectators hand. I agree for the most part. But I know that there's a huge difference between them examining something and them holding something.

I'm my routine called Flip-M-Out there are four phases to the routine and all but one of the phases consist of placing the open flipper coin in the spectators hand. The two phases of the routine where taught to me by Tony Gerard. The other two phases make use of other commonly known coin effects (Traveling into a spectators hand and making a surprise appearance on the table).

I've been doing this routine for about 15 years now so I've learned how to prevent them from knowing they have a gaffed coin in their hand. The trick is to not give them any reason to suspect that the coins aren't normal. I know that accidents can happen and they have. But after they happen you can think up a solution to prevent it from happening again. If the coins don't sound right when they hit the floor then don't allow it to hit the floor. This can be worked out. For instance make sure their hand stays above the close up pad if a gaff is placed in their hand and so forth.

I'm not suggesting that you should place gaffed coins in a spectators hand. I'm only implying that it can be done. In the case of the routine Flip-M-Out it's done very magically. A lot of subtleties are used to prevent mishaps.

Ron Jaxon
Message: Posted by: JohnLamberti (Jul 13, 2005 05:09AM)
If you're using a bunch of coins, and only one of them is gaffed, why not hand out all the coins for examination beforehand, and then simply switch out one of the real ones for the gaff. That way the spectator has the idea that he or she examined all of the coins.

Or maybe I'm crazy??
Message: Posted by: sethb (Jul 13, 2005 06:39AM)
John makes a good point. With a simple shuttle pass or Bobo switch, you can ring in a perfectly legitimate coin and let everyone examine it to their heart's content. SETH
Message: Posted by: Review King (Jul 13, 2005 02:59PM)
In Dan Watkins brilliant routine, 4 Coins, Your Hands, from his book Coinvanish 2, the gaff is put in the spectators hand. I've never had a problem with them dropping it. It's not given to examine however, the coins just appear in their hands. Interested? Go here: http://www.coinvanish.com/

Jamie Schoolcraft makes the gaff coin:
Message: Posted by: kihei kid (Jul 13, 2005 04:24PM)
I own a Schoolcraft flipper and have put it in the specs hand from time to time just to play a game of cat and mouse (or inside joke if you will). Anyone who uses old coins knows already that most have not seen something like a walking liberty in years and sometimes they ask to see ďAĒ coin (thatís when the fun begins for me).

The nice thing about the Schoolcraft is it easily passes casual examination such as at the beginning of a routine. However more often than not I donít get asked as I have structured my routines so they donít get bogged down by having to examine something.

I prefer not to hand out the vast majority of my props for many reasons, one of which I believe takes away from the magic.
Message: Posted by: Mediocre the Great (Jul 13, 2005 08:53PM)
I've handed out the schoolcraft flipper for examiniation to magicians... just to mess with them. That's a lot of fun. They assume it's an ordinary coin becuase I let them examine it. Also, it's very hard to detect if you're not expecting it.

Have a spectator examine a flipper? I cant't think of any reason to do so... what would it accomplish other than taking the slight risk of damage to the gaff, or of exposure?
Message: Posted by: Magius (Jul 14, 2005 02:02AM)
Well, not for examination, I think it would make sense if you plan to place it on their hands in part of the routine, which would make it seem more free and clean, while not actually letting them examine. I guess it'll be safe if it's carpet floor or some such.
Message: Posted by: Mike Wild (Jul 14, 2005 04:51AM)
I'd tend to agree Magius. If the environment is just right (carpeted floor for an example), and the gaff is placed into their hand, along with other ungaffed coins, not for examination but as part of the mechanics of the routine, counting them out or taking/leaving coins in the context of the routine, and if you're confident that the spectator won't grab and examine the coins, then it's probably ok to put a flipper into someone's hand.

That's a lot of "ifs" however, and performance situations are rarely that accommodating.


Message: Posted by: Dan Watkins (Jul 14, 2005 08:41AM)
I put coins in spectator's hands all of the time as part of the construction of the routines I perform. I purposely do this because putting the magic in their hands greatly increases the effect on your spectator. Instead of just watching you perform, they are taking part in the magic.

I routinely put a flipper coin, shell coin, C/S coin, and CSB gimmick in their hands (in seperate routines). You just have to know how to manage it.

One of the secrets is that if you have both of their hands occupied with objects, it is very hard for them to grab anything. Their hands are palm up, yours is palm down, you can grab quicker than they can if you happen to have a problematic spectator.
Message: Posted by: waterford (Jul 19, 2005 09:50PM)
Does anyone know of a particular good text that covers the use of the flipper in coins across or coins through table. I have the Schoolcraft coin. Thanks
Message: Posted by: Jordini (Jul 19, 2005 11:08PM)
On 2005-07-19 22:50, waterford wrote:
Does anyone know of a particular good text that covers the use of the flipper in coins across or coins through table. I have the Schoolcraft coin. Thanks

Joshuajay.com Troy Hoosier has some material on it. I'm waiting for DesTROYers to arrive (should be here tomorrow).
Message: Posted by: GWSchott (Sep 4, 2006 10:33PM)
Speaking of gaffs getting damaged, how easily do the older halfs (i.e. walking liberties, barbers, franklins) get damaged as compared to the more modern halfs? I know that since the older halfs have a higher silver content they're a bit softer, but how much softer? How careful do I have to be handling them?
Message: Posted by: Fingers (Sep 5, 2006 08:13AM)
I will vouch for what, Dan Watkins, has to say! I have been practicing the routines on his "Coin Man Walking" DVD and you place gimmicks in the hands of the spectator in several instances, but the way he has it done doesn't give the spectator a chance to examine them till the end where they are switched out.

I have already performed some of his routines for friends and they kick. My friends are very suspicious and want to scrutinize everything, so I let them examine the coins before and after. However, I never let them examine the gimmicks and the only time they see and touch the gimmicks is during the routines. With Dan Watkins strategy you can do that and never worry, like he said when it is done both the hands of the spectator are occupied and with proper management they will never know they are holding a gimmick.

Thanks Dan, you made me a coin God here with my friends.....