Topic: Memorising numbers
 Message: Posted by: NJJ (Oct 13, 2005 05:50PM)
I need to memorise these 16 numbers. I won't say why for fear of exposer but I'm sure most of you know why...

11 14 5 A
4 B 10 15
C 7 12 9
13 8 D 6

I can't for the life of me do it! I've tried the memory technique on Scott Cram's site and I can't remember the *** numbers!

I usually a crib when performing but last night a tech threw it out five minutes before the show!
 Message: Posted by: Patrick Redford (Oct 13, 2005 07:13PM)
I've PM'd you.
 Message: Posted by: Greg Owen (Oct 13, 2005 07:26PM)
Nicholas -

There are other patterns that will serve the same purpose and that are easier to memorize. The one I use makes symmetrical figures with each successive set of four numbers. Look for patterns. Works for me and, like you, I'd forget my name if it wasn't tatooed on me.

- Greg Owen
 Message: Posted by: Mike Baxter (Oct 13, 2005 07:31PM)
Nicholas,

I don’t know the effect to which this pertains and therefore maybe the following is of no use (e.g. you may have to know which number is in which position).

However, assuming one is familiar with the common mnemonic system: 1 – t; 2 – n; 3 – m; 4 – r, etc., then one could make up a ‘story’ such as shown below. (The CAPITAL letters represent the numbers, e.g. TOT is the mnemonic equivalent of ‘11’)

11 14 5 A
A TOT began to cry some TEARS because they couldn’t reach the ALE! [Followed by ‘A’ - the position of which you would have to memorize].

4 B 10 15
An ARROW [Followed by ‘B’] would be TOSSed at a TILL.

C 7 12 9
[Remember ‘C’] Turn a KEY in a TIN and let the BEE out.

13 8 D 6
TOM and IVY [Followed by ‘D’] both wore new SHOEs
 Message: Posted by: scott b. (Oct 13, 2005 10:03PM)
I just simply remembered them as whole numbers

11145
41015
7129
1386

the letter sequence is no where near as hard to learn.
 Message: Posted by: NJJ (Oct 13, 2005 10:20PM)
I feel like a moron.

I just can't get it.
 Message: Posted by: Patrick Redford (Oct 13, 2005 10:25PM)
Yes, but was what I PM'd you effective?
 Message: Posted by: Basil (Oct 13, 2005 10:59PM)
Don't feel like a moron. Everybody’s brain work a little differently. For instance, I have a hard remembering phone numbers. I find it easier to remember the patterns the numbers make on the keypad, if you know what I mean.

It would be a little work, but you could try to create a phrase of words that sound close to the numbers in the sequence. 11 14 could equal ‘heaven for teens’. With some work, you could construct a phrase that makes a degree of sense.

When I was a kid, I learned a deck stack called ‘The Hungry Jackass” that uses such a phrase to describe the order of the cards, and I had no problem memorizing it.
 Message: Posted by: nucinud (Oct 13, 2005 11:17PM)
Turn it into a song. Most people can remember things better that way.
 Message: Posted by: Itay (Oct 14, 2005 06:32AM)
Hey Nicholas

May I suggest a different approach-

Pure repetition - Focus on remembering one row at a time.

Just repeat the numbers in the first row for yourself again and again
until you know them by heart.

Then do the same with the second row.

Then recite the first and second rows combined.

Continue to add a single row at a time until you know them all.

Hope it helps,

Itay
 Message: Posted by: Greg Owen (Oct 14, 2005 01:14PM)
I remember the locations of the numbers IN ORDER rather than by row. Does this make sense? Here's the pattern I use:

9 6 3 16
4 15 10 5
14 1 8 11
7 12 13 2

I learned this pattern in blocks of four numbers. First, remember where (1) is and work counter-clockwise to 2, 3, and 4.

Then "slide" from 4 over to 5 and continue counter-clockwise to 6, 7, and 8.

Up to the corner for 9 then clockwise to 10, 11, and 12.

Slide one square to the right for 13 and continue clockwise for 14, 14, and 16.

I hope its clear that this square will accomplish the same feat as yours.

- Greg Owen
 Message: Posted by: TruthML (Oct 14, 2005 01:56PM)
I'm a totally visual person so here's my take on it:

I imagine a room with 4 doors…

Behind the first door I see a football player trying to stuff a GOAL POST (11) through a 14kt GOLD RING (14). He’s wearing a huge oversized GLOVE (5) with an “A” stitched on it.

Behind the second door there’s a CLOWN CAR (4 wheels) balancing on a GIANT LETTER “B”. I walk over and knock it off with a BOWLING PIN (10 pins). The car falls off and lands on your PAYCHECK (15).

Behind the third door I picture Michael Jackson holding the letter “C”.... There’s a RABBIT FOOT (7) hanging from it, and he’s using it to beat EGGS (12) so he can feed his waiting CAT (9).

Behind the 4th door I see a WITCH (13) riding an OCTIPUS (8) they’re floating in a “D” shaped pool and surrounded by ANTS (6) cheering them on.

Darn now I'LL never forget them :).
 Message: Posted by: NJJ (Oct 14, 2005 07:31PM)
Truth ML

I think that might be the method for me. I too am very visual. He is the one I wrote. I made sure that each number or letter leads onto the next one otherwise I might muck up the order!

A loaf of LEAVEN (11) bread falls from the sky and is eaten by FOUR TEENS (14) who put HONEY (hive-five) on it. The empty plate has a large A on it.

There is a DOOR (4) in the plate and a BEE (B) who looks like ANDY WARHOL (15 minutes of fame) flies out knocking everyone over like BOWLING PINS. (10)

They all tumble back into the SEA (C) and drown. They go to HEAVEN (7) where god is eating EGGS (12) and drinking WINE (9)

However, one of the teens is a WITCH (13) and so is thrown through the GATE (8) which makes god SMILE (: D). Finally…..the whole scene makes everyone is SICK (6)

If I great a visual image rather then a string of words its sticks better. I'll practice every day and get back to you in a week!
 Message: Posted by: Dennis Loomis (Oct 15, 2005 08:38PM)
Mike Baxter's approach is applied basic mnemonics. It's called the phonetic alphabet. His explanation is very brief; you need a good menmonics textbook. Once you learn the phonetic alphabet and the peg and link systems of memory, you will be able to recall numbers easily the rest of your life.

My recommendation is to go to amazon.com and buy a copy of Harry Lorayne's Secrets of a Super Power Memory. It's the "best buy" in the mnemonics field. They have some used copies for as little as \$2.50, and a brand new paper back is way under ten bucks. It may be the best money you're ever spent. I got it way back in 1959 and used it throughtout High School and college. In fact, I wouldn't have my college degree, I'm sure, if I hadn't learned mnemonics.

I'm at a loss as to why schools don't teach basic mnemonics as the approach to learn all of those dates and names in History, all of the facts in science classes, the names of the characters in great works of literature, etc. It's actually fun when you get into it and you will amaze yourself with what you'll be able to remember if you just do some systematic use of the mnemonic systems.

Denny Loomis
 Message: Posted by: TruthML (Oct 17, 2005 07:31AM)
Nicholas,

Glad I could help out....good luck! Since I can't forget 16 numbers/letters, can you PM me name of the effect? I probably already have it some where gathering dust.

Thanks

Truth
 Message: Posted by: Greg Owen (Oct 17, 2005 10:39AM)
"My recommendation is to go to amazon.com and buy a copy of Harry Lorayne's Secrets of a Super Power Memory."

http://users.lk.net/~stepanov/mnemo/lorayn/contents.html

- Greg Owen
 Message: Posted by: Fred E. Bert (Oct 17, 2005 11:09AM)
Denny, I agree, I don't understand why schools don't teach mnemonics. My fiancée is a biology and anatomy teacher and tries to teach her kids memory pegs. They have a hard time realizing the benefit. She did the memory demonstration from Corinda for all her classes and taught her students the mnemonic words for numbers 1-20. Out of all her students, only one actually tried to learn the peg words. The others claimed it was too hard...

It's a sad state of affairs. If kids today think learning 20 pegs words is too hard, then I predict mentalists will be a dying breed in the 21st Century!
 Message: Posted by: abc (Oct 17, 2005 11:53AM)
Fred,
I could not agree more. I initially started memorizing 20 or 30 or 40 things as a display of memory. Now I do an effect where my assistant and girlfriend selects 20 people to each tell her one object or telephone number or whatever or if there are less people to see the effect then write it on paper while I am out of the room. I then return and read there minds. All she has to do is "magically' or secretly tell me which person is associated with which number. It is insane that students do not get taught studying and memory techniques when they are in school. I mean what is school for then?
 Message: Posted by: Dennis Loomis (Oct 18, 2005 12:21PM)
To Fred and abc,
Yes, yes, yes. I was exposed to only a few simple mnemonic devices in early childhood. My piano teacher taught me that: "Every Good Boy deserves fudge." And, someone pointed out that you can remember the Great Lakes by thinking of: "HOMES."

But no teacher, friend, or parent ever suggested that there was an organized, systematic approach to remembering most anything. As a sophomore in High School, I loved math and science and was in the local library reading the current Scientific American magazine. (I always turned to Martin Gardner's Col. first!) And I ran across this word: mnemonics. I didn't know what it was so I looked it up. Then I discovered that the library had a couple of Harry Lorayne's books. And I was hooked. I was suddenly organizing links and pegs for all of those dates in US History, all those equations in Physics, chemical valences, characters in literature, etc.

Before that, I was advised to "study." Which meant reading the text book, taking some notes on "Important" stuff, and using brute force to try to cram it all into my head. While that works, it takes far longer and is hard. Mnemonics is easy and fun.

Denny Loomis
 Message: Posted by: silverfire9 (Oct 19, 2005 06:08AM)
Actually, the word picture linking method is a very useful and viable method of memorizing, as well. It's not a "system," as the pictures may well be different every time, but it works. In my Cognitive Science class I took, we had a section on memorization that was very interesting. The peg system is good, and the making up a visual "story" is even better, iirc.

Also, memory is strongly linked to emotional state: if you study in a relaxed environment, while drinking some beer, listening to music, then you take a test while completely sober, nervous and anxious, and with no music, well, you won't remember as much as you would otherwise. If you study in a similar environment as the test will be, you'll remember more during the test.

Applying that to this situation, when doing your memorization and reviewing of the numbers, simulate your performing environment and atmosphere as best you can. That way, the memory will be more strongly linked and more accessible *during* performance.

Hope this helps some. Good luck. Er, break a leg. Whatever. :P
 Message: Posted by: KN_Magic (Oct 19, 2005 07:30AM)
Following on from what Silverfire said, if you can involve as many senses as possible during you memorisation and then stimulate those senses again (a certain fragrance, drink etc) you'll have an association, which may help.

But back to cheating: I don't know the specifics of how you present your routine, but would it be possible to faintly pencil your crib on your flip chart or whatever you use?

Kevin.
 Message: Posted by: Magic Fingers (May 21, 2009 01:23PM)
Didn't really want to start a new thread for this as I can see there are some great thoughts on memory techniques here that I thought I'd Hijack. I'm currently trying to memorise a crib sheet of 52, I need to memorise all 52 words and the position they are at. I have read a few things in the past and have found I can memorise lists of words but I'm struggling to do it when I have to assign a number to it, can anyone point me in the right direction?
 Message: Posted by: Steve Suss (May 21, 2009 01:43PM)
"My recommendation is to go to amazon.com and buy a copy of Harry Lorayne's Secrets of a Super Power Memory."

Great advice and it still applies.

Steve
 Message: Posted by: numberjay (May 21, 2009 01:49PM)
Magic Fingers, you need 52 'pegs' to which you'll associate the words you want to memorize.

How you come up with your pegs, is up to you.

Really, get no matter which book by Harry Lorayne and you'll actually enjoy doing it.

'How to Develop A Super Power Memory' was the first book on mnemonics I read and the only one I needed (I know, because I've bought a few others too...)

Numberjay
 Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (May 21, 2009 02:21PM)
In terms of memory systems the best I have ever come across (and I have studied them all) is Quantum Memory by Dominic O'Brien, eight times world memory champion. Harry Lorayne and Tony Buzan also had useful stuff.
But Nicholas's problem is more basic. He just needs to remember a grid for an effect we all know. Nicholas, are you doing this close-up or stage? If on stage what I did the first time (even though I was confident of my memory) was pencil the numbers lightly in beforehand. None could see them under the stage lights.
If doing this close-up, how about writing the grid on your wrist with red biro? Raise your cuff slightly and you have the information almost at your fingertips.
Another good tip is to print out the grid tiny (postage stamp size) and glue this to your biro or marker. This makes the effect very easy. Good luck with it.
 Message: Posted by: Mr. Mindbender (May 21, 2009 03:37PM)
Tie, Noah, Ma, Rye ( I prefer row), Law, Shoe...

The time, effort and daily maintenance I've had to put in to memorize Lorayne's peg system has paid off ten fold over the years. From learning a memorized deck, to remembering crib sheet material, to just every day life stuff -- I am always finding a fun and useful application for this system. Well worth the effort to learn.
 Message: Posted by: Marcus Nogueira (May 21, 2009 03:57PM)
Derren Brown recommends some fantastic memory systems in his book Tricks of the Mind.
 Message: Posted by: IAIN (May 21, 2009 04:15PM)
Write it on a small post it note, and keep it in your wallet...then attach it to a clipboard or somewhere suitable a little before needed...
 Message: Posted by: Harry Lorayne (May 21, 2009 05:57PM)
Listen to IAIN and you'll hurt your memory terribly - because you rely on paper not your mind. I must have written that over a hundrd thousand times. You can lose a piece of paper, you can't lose your mind! And if you do, you won't care! I gotta' tell you, I just saw this thread, and it gave me lots of laughs. Incidentally, my book How To Develop A Super-Power Memory (not "Secrets of" - number jay finally got it right) was my firt book on the subject, back in 1956! I've written about 20 on the subject since then. You need to get a bit more current, folks. AGELESS MEMORY (Simple Secrets for Keeping Your Brain Young) is the current one.

TonyB: You have to be kidding. I "also have good stuff"? You say in the same sentence as where you mention rip-offs? Please! And, seriously, folks, if you have to write the numbers on your wrist or anywhere else (I love watch the surreptitious glances when people do this) I'd suggest you do a different "trick."
 Message: Posted by: Harry Lorayne (May 21, 2009 05:58PM)
Oh, and I think that perhaps 12 of my books on memory training were published before Derren Brown was born!
 Message: Posted by: IAIN (May 21, 2009 06:10PM)
I did have a clever come back..but the I seem to have misplaced the post-it note I wrote it down on...
 Message: Posted by: Jim-Callahan (May 21, 2009 06:20PM)
Learn the Nicola system in the back.

Just use the number parts and not the cards and you will have it down in two days.

And you get some really great ideas/presentations from the rest of the book as a bonus.

Jim

H.o.A-X
 Message: Posted by: numberjay (May 21, 2009 06:25PM)
I bought 4 books by Harry Lorayne and (shame on me :)) a few more by Buzan.

I actually enjoyed and learned from both authors, but mnemonic-wise the only book I would have needed is Lorayne's very first one, the first one I bought, although the one I have always at hand (even right now!) is Lorayne's Page-A-Minute Memory Book.

I'll look into Ageless Memory, because I just happen to enjoy Lorayne's ideas and style.

I can't imagine a Mentalist who doesn't master a mnemonic system. It's Corinda's 3rd step to mentalism... for me should be first.

I often read on here about ideas on impromptu, prop-free mentalism effects... what could be more impromptu than an amazing memory demonstration? After all it's for real. I know how people look at you after such a feat...

And very cool to have Mr.Lorayne here!

Numberjay
 Message: Posted by: eb02 (May 22, 2009 10:00AM)
If you use a board for the effect you can write the numbers on the board and you don't need to remember them... that's my 2 cents tip.
 Message: Posted by: kinesis (May 22, 2009 11:14AM)
I'm about to start teaching 15 + 16 yr old kids various memory techniques at a local school. I got a lot of info here...

http://www.mindtools.com/memory.html

Have fun

Derek
 Message: Posted by: Chris K (May 22, 2009 01:49PM)
I did Chuck Hickok's Alphabet Backwards routine as a speech for Toastmasters on the subject of mnemonics. There are a lot more out there than I even knew (I knew the ones for music from my brief affair with a clarinet, long interlude with drums, and ongoing co-dependent relationship with bass guitar). For example, I never even knew Roy G. Biv.

I read a book on mnemonics for learning a language (actually read part of a friend's book) back in high school. To this day, I can't think of a cart of awful potatoes without smiling.

Let me be honest here, I have two of Harry Lorayne's books. They are excellent, they really are. With that being said, and Harry's going to eat my heart for lunch for saying this, but I'm terrible at using any of the techniques for remembering numbers. I honestly remember numbers best as simply numbers. Most likely it's simply that I get frustrated with the tools (because I end up remembering the numbers before the tools become ingrained or something) but that's how it is. I'm working on it, though.

And I agree with a post written years ago, I can't, for the life of me, understand why they don't try to teach MORE applications of memory work in school.

However, there is a post I disagree with written years ago too. When I was teaching my wife the simple 1-gun, 2-shoe... method, I made sure to only teach her the first 10. She has a bachelor's degree in Genetics, a master's degree, etc. However, by breaking it down, showing her (and her parents, but that is a different story with a different punchline) the usefulness and ease, it made teaching her the other 10 (just to 20) a piece of cake. If I had tried to teach her 20, she may have gotten muddled down in the details.

Just for the record, my wife's parents were adamant no "memory trick" would help them, that their issue was simply age. Funny thing, even though they use mnemonics now, they can still remember that first list. So one must realize there is going to be resistance, justified or not, to this type of approach.

Lem

PS- Just for the record, I'm going back to Harry's books starting this weekend.
 Message: Posted by: Harry Lorayne (May 22, 2009 07:43PM)
You may even find a method for learning to "do" the alphabet backwards and forwaqrds AT THE SAME TIME instantly - in one of my books. I also sure would like to see how you would remember, say, a 30-digit number, or a 50-digit number, or pi to the 5000th place - yes, I said 5000th - as some of my students do) by remembering them "as simply numbers." I'd love to learn that. HL.
 Message: Posted by: Jim-Callahan (May 22, 2009 08:16PM)
[quote]
On 2009-05-22 20:43, Harry Lorayne wrote:
You may even find a method for learning to "do" the alphabet backwards and forwaqrds AT THE SAME TIME instantly - in one of my books. I also sure would like to see how you would remember, say, a 30-digit number, or a 50-digit number, or pi to the 5000th place - yes, I said 5000th - as some of my students do) by remembering them "as simply numbers." I'd love to learn that. HL.
[/quote]

I love to see you do the PI thing Harry.

-Jim

H.O.A-X
 Message: Posted by: Harry Lorayne (May 23, 2009 09:19AM)
I don't do the PI thing, Jim - don't have to - what a bore. As I said, students of mine do. They're in competitions, etc. I don't "compete." If YOU do, learn my systems, then you'll be able to do it yourself. Best - HL.
 Message: Posted by: daghank (May 23, 2009 09:45AM)
[quote]
On 2009-05-22 20:43, Harry Lorayne wrote:
You may even find a method for learning to "do" the alphabet backwards and forwaqrds AT THE SAME TIME instantly - in one of my books. I also sure would like to see how you would remember, say, a 30-digit number, or a 50-digit number, or pi to the 5000th place - yes, I said 5000th - as some of my students do) by remembering them "as simply numbers." I'd love to learn that. HL.
[/quote]

May I learn which book it is in?
 Message: Posted by: Scott Cram (May 23, 2009 11:55AM)
The backwards and forwards alphabet feat is called "TAELPBAH" and is found in "Mathematical Wizardry".
 Message: Posted by: Harry Lorayne (May 23, 2009 04:32PM)
Right. Except that the title is: TAELBPAH. See if you can figure out why that's important. Hint: tAeLbPaH.
 Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (May 23, 2009 08:55PM)
When I do kids shows I get a good reaction from the parents by doing the alphabet backwards. The kids just look at me and tell me I've got it wrong. You can't win.
 Message: Posted by: RicHeka (May 23, 2009 10:45PM)
[quote]
On 2009-05-22 20:43, Harry Lorayne wrote:
You may even find a method for learning to "do" the alphabet backwards and forwaqrds AT THE SAME TIME instantly - in one of my books. I also sure would like to see how you would remember, say, a 30-digit number, or a 50-digit number, or pi to the 5000th place - yes, I said 5000th - as some of my students do) by remembering them "as simply numbers." I'd love to learn that. HL.
[/quote]
Hello Mr. Lorayne.I am a big fan.However,I did learn the Alphabet...forwards and backwards at the same time on my own. :)
In fact,one of my routines invloves completing a MS on a see through dry erase board in mirror image[the guests of course see the #'s correctly]...while at the same time reciting the alphabet forwards and backwards
at the same time.[multi-tasking]I do this as part of my 'train your brain' premise.[especially geared toward modern day videophiles...or as I like to call them 'vidiots' :)].
 Message: Posted by: RicHeka (May 23, 2009 11:40PM)
[quote]
On 2009-05-23 21:55, TonyB2009 wrote:
When I do kids shows I get a good reaction from the parents by doing the alphabet backwards. The kids just look at me and tell me I've got it wrong. You can't win.
[/quote]Tony...

I PM'ed you.
 Message: Posted by: RicHeka (May 24, 2009 06:45AM)
[quote]
On 2009-05-23 17:32, Harry Lorayne wrote:
Right. Except that the title is: TAELBPAH. See if you can figure out why that's important. Hint: tAeLbPaH.
[/quote]

Yes we might as well use the same criteria for the word ALPHABET as we do for the entire alphabet 'forwards and backwards at the same time'...'IN ORDER'. ;)
 Message: Posted by: John C (May 24, 2009 12:00PM)
I leave 11 14 5 A on it's own then it's

4 BEFORE 10:15 or (4 B 10 15)

C IT'S 7 MINUTES TILL 12:09 OR (C 7 12 9)

13 EIGHTY6 OR (13 8 D 6)

J
 Message: Posted by: RicHeka (May 25, 2009 11:52AM)