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Topic: Ultimate Marked Deck
Message: Posted by: elgranmago (Oct 31, 2005 04:04PM)
Today I stopped by my favorite magic shop, "Magic Dream" in Paris. The owner, Damien Vapereau (creator of "Splash Bottle", "Pinned Card", "Psi Deck", etc., showed me his latest creation:

"The Ultimate Marked Deck" printed on USPC Bicycle stock, red or blue.

For those who can read French, have a look at the link:

http://www.magicdream.fr/

I was stunned at how well made this deck is. You can identify any card at a glance yet the markings are cleverly concealed.

I am not certain that this is out on the international market yet but be on the look out for it.

BTW: This is not the same marked deck recently released by another well-known French magician.
BTW: I have nothing to with Magic Dream.

Just thought I would share this with fellow cardpeople.

Bonne magie!

José
Message: Posted by: Hideo Kato (Oct 31, 2005 06:10PM)
Isn't it Boris Wild marked deck printed by USPC?
If so, I am interested to buy it. Can someone tell an American or English site where I can find it?

I really wish to perform 'Four of a Kind' effect (by Tamariz) with this deck. It would be far stronger than performing the effect with Memorized Stack.

Hideo Kato
Message: Posted by: elgranmago (Nov 1, 2005 03:52AM)
Hideo:

It is not the Boris Wild deck (the other French magician referred to in my initial post), which by the way, I have also seen.

In my humble opinion, the UMD allows a faster identification of the cards.
Message: Posted by: Sean Macfarlane (Nov 1, 2005 04:41AM)
I am interested in this deck. Can't read French though. Do they take international orders? or is there a dealer somewhere else that is selling this deck?
Message: Posted by: Gluestick (Nov 1, 2005 05:35AM)
Why buy a marked deck when they are so easy to do yourself?

The ultimate marked deck is the one that you invent for yourself.

It can be so easy.
Message: Posted by: DomKabala (Nov 1, 2005 05:42AM)
[quote]
On 2005-10-31 19:10, Hideo Kato wrote:
Is'nt it Borris Wild marked deck printed by USPC?
If so, I am interested to buy it. Can someone tell an American or English site where I can find it?

I really wish to perform 'Four of a Kind' effect (by Tamariz) with this deck. It would be far stronger than performing the effect with Memorized Stack.

Hideo Kato
[/quote] Hideosan click on this [url=http://www.elmwoodmagic.com/?keywords=boris+wild+deck&nd=list&issearch=1&realsearch.x=9&realsearch.y=16]Boris Wild[/url] I have done business with them and they are prompt. :bluebikes: :bikes: :bluebikes:

<<<KRaZy4kardz>>>
Message: Posted by: Azza7777 (Nov 1, 2005 10:58PM)
For those that are curious about the deck but can't read french visit:
[url=http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.magicdream.fr%2F&langpair=fr%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools]google.com/translate[/url]
Message: Posted by: Sean Macfarlane (Nov 2, 2005 04:24AM)
I like the Boris Wild Deck and have been using it, with practice you can read it easily, but I have had a few problems reading it on occasion. So if they USPC is manufacturing another marked deck that's even easier to read and as hard to spot by a spectator, I want one. I made a Lesley deck up myself but found that after using it for a while it the marks were coming off. I like the Lesley Deck is a very easy read, just wish the marks didn't come off. Killer stuff can be done with marked cards.
Message: Posted by: Gluestick (Nov 2, 2005 01:38PM)
Sean, why don't you make one up yourself?

Any marking system is good. I'm not sure that any of the marketed ones are irreplacable in the armoury of a magician

What do you think?
Message: Posted by: Richard Lucas (Nov 2, 2005 02:35PM)
Has anyone had trouble with "Juice" loosing its marking ability over time. I have a full bottle that is about 1 year old that seems to have lost its marking ability. The ink no longer seem to 'marks' the cards.

Any comments suggestions?

Dick


Posted: Nov 2, 2005 3:43pm
---------------------------------------------
The Boris deck is sometimes difficult to read, although clearly marked these "marks" are very small appx'. 1/16 inch, so unless you can make out these tiny numbers it is useless.

I would agree that a home made deck using juice where one can make the marks as large as you like is far superior. If this new deck has marks that can be read very quickly at reasonable distance, 'very quickly' being the key, it could be worth considering. This is a case where a local magic shop would prove to be invaluable. Unfortunately there are no such dealers in my area.
Message: Posted by: tommy (Nov 2, 2005 02:53PM)
I am not asking the secret of the Ultimate Marked Deck but is the concept new? What makes it better than others? Could you mark your own deck with the method or is it a secret ink?
Message: Posted by: elgranmago (Nov 2, 2005 03:41PM)
As I said in my first post, I have nothing to do with Magic Dream. It´s just my neighborhood magic shop, but it´s the best shop in France. I suggest you pose your questions straight to them, they make the deck. On their website http://www.magicdream.fr/ they have an e-mail option which when you click gives you: contact@magicdream.fr . Or better yet, call them. They will certainly reply to you in English.

José
Message: Posted by: Sean Macfarlane (Nov 2, 2005 08:13PM)
Hey Gluestick, I did make a Leslie deck for myself, and I like it a lot, problem is the marks are starting to come off after a shuffle. So having it made by the USPC is great. I am hoping that this new deck of readers are as easy to read as the Leslie deck. The Wild deck is good, but have had problems getting a read from it at times.

Sean
Message: Posted by: Mark Ennis (Nov 3, 2005 11:19AM)
I clicked on the link featuring the translated website and just below the ad for the Ultimate Marked deck is the book Mind, Myth and Magic by T A Toilets. I guess some translations aren't 100%.
Message: Posted by: Jonathan P. (Nov 4, 2005 04:49AM)
I love those translating tools, they sometimes have better ideas than us... (not in this very case :) )
Anyway...

I saw the deck yesterday by a friend who bought it from magicdream. It is GREAT. The marks are straightforward (no tricky code or position to remember) and they are very well hidden into the back design patterns. In fact, they are included in the design, and printed at the same time.

In two words: try it!

(I don't have any connections with Magic dream, but now, I think about becoming a customer...)

Jonathan.
Message: Posted by: Expertmagician (Nov 4, 2005 07:53AM)
Johnathan,

From your description, it sould like the marks are hidden by using traditional block-out or scroll-work, except that the block out's are well hidden. While that is good, I suspect that the markes will still be easily detected by using the gamblers "riffle test" ? Have you tried that test ?

Just riffle the cards and watch "the movies", like old fashioned cartoons.
Message: Posted by: Jonathan P. (Nov 4, 2005 08:39AM)
Even if I don't understand what "block-out or scroll-work" could mean, when introduced to the deck, I used the riflle-method to locate the marks, and I succeeded.

Is "block-out" the fact to fill some blank space in the design?
What is "scroll-work" then?

I am not at all a marked cards specialist, but what I like a lot with this deck (better than any other marked deck I saw) is the clarity AND the discreetness of the marks.
For the detection problem, I bet that noone (a spectator), seeing and even manipulating the cards, will never realize that the cards are marked. Of course, it wouldn't pass the riffle test.

But I don't mind.
J.
Message: Posted by: Pablo Tejero (Nov 4, 2005 09:43AM)
If this deck has obtained this good review from the great magician Jose is, I think it should be a great product to try and to do magic with.

I hope to have one of this decks in my hands soon.

All the best magic,

Pablo Tejero :bikes:
Message: Posted by: Expertmagician (Nov 4, 2005 08:03PM)
Block out work is when you use ink which is the EXACT same color as the cards to make some of the white areas of the card match the colored print. Conversly, you can use white ink to elimimate some printed areas of the card to make them look white.

The really hard part is to find the correct solution which will NOT ALTER the finish of the card.

Scroll work is similar, except that the marks blend into the scrolling back design patterns....scroll work will usually add an extra scroll or 2 in strategic locations to represent a card.

I hope this helps.....But, as I said, I prefer marked cards which cannot be detected with a riffle test, since knowledgeable people (usually card players) will try that test to make sure cards are not marked.
Message: Posted by: PapaG (Nov 4, 2005 08:23PM)
Anyone have experience of the Fournier marked deck that is marketed?
Message: Posted by: Edmund_Fitzgerald (Nov 4, 2005 09:37PM)
I have used the Fournier marked deck. It is very good. I like the feel of fourniers as well. But fournier cards seem to attract attention because they are non-standard.
Message: Posted by: PapaG (Nov 5, 2005 02:05AM)
In the UK, only Waddington bridge size cards are 'standard'. Horrible...
Message: Posted by: Jonathan P. (Nov 5, 2005 05:54AM)
Expertmagician,
Thanks for those explanations. Yes, those techniques are in play, but as they are part of the general rinting of the card, they are "perfect" (well, I mean, the color and the pattern are flawless and very well embedded into the regular back design.)
Bye,
Jonathan.
Message: Posted by: Payne (Nov 6, 2005 12:44AM)
[quote]
On 2005-11-02 15:53, tommy wrote:
I am not asking the secret of the Ultimate Marked Deck but is the concept new? What makes it better than others? Could you mark your own deck with the method or is it a secret ink?
[/quote]

Just picked up one of these this afternoon at a lecture by David Stone. It is basically the Ted Lesley or DeKram marking system.
Message: Posted by: el diams (Nov 6, 2005 01:03AM)
In fact with this deck "Ultimate" you read directly on the back the value and color of the card. Very easy to read. That's the difference with the Lesley mark.
Message: Posted by: Payne (Nov 7, 2005 09:48AM)
[quote]
On 2005-11-06 02:03, el diams wrote:
In fact with this deck "Ultimate" you read directly on the back the value & color of the card. very easy to read. That's the diference withe the Lesley mark.
[/quote]

I find the suit value mark on these a little hard to read myself.
Message: Posted by: el diams (Nov 7, 2005 03:12PM)
I use it a lot of time and I read suit and value quickly. But yes the suit is a little more difficult.
Message: Posted by: Dennis Loomis (Nov 17, 2005 07:45PM)
I got one of these in the mail from Paris this afternoon. I think it's quite good. I certainly prefer it to the Boris Wild Deck. However, it's kind of expensive. They want American dealers to see them for $30.00 What do you think, guy? Would you pay that? As a dealer, it's hard for me to be subjective, but I'm leaning toward NOT handling it because I'm afraid they would be a very slow mover at the price. Even though it's a good product.

Denny Loomis
Message: Posted by: strat1969 (Nov 20, 2005 09:18AM)
Purchased mine at a David Stone (NWROF) lecture as well for I think $25.
I'm very much a beginner and keep it handy for impromptu mentalism.
Though I'm careful not to confuse it with the deck I use for "Card warp" or any signed card routing.
My novice impression is that it is worth $20-$30.
Message: Posted by: afknight (Nov 20, 2005 03:16PM)
I think Hocus Pocus now carries this deck in the US for those who are interested.

p.s. I have no financial interest in either this deck or Hocus Pocus
Message: Posted by: ludmer (Nov 21, 2005 07:33AM)
Hocus-Pocus says:
[quote]The Ultimate Marked Deck is the first marked deck printed by the U.S Playing Card Company. The mark itself is incorporated on the design of the back (bicycle rider back 808-R Premium). The mark will instantly reveal the card's number and suit. The magician can instantly recognize the hidden mark allowing him to identify any chosen card's number and suit at a glance.
[/quote]
Well... wasn´t the Boris wild MD "THE" first one printed by the USPC?

Just got a little confused...


BTW,

BWMD is great.. a little "slower" than easier-to-read versions, such as Lesley´s, but great indeed.
Message: Posted by: Peo Olsson (Nov 21, 2005 07:46AM)
Ted Lesley's deck still has my vote for the best marked deck. I have been using it for years.
With my bad eye-sight it is a much better choise than Boris Wild's deck.
NOT saying that Wild's deck is bad, but Lesley's fits my needs better.
Message: Posted by: Expertmagician (Nov 21, 2005 08:00AM)
Funny, I can't read a Ted Lesley marked deck or the Borris wild marked deck without putting on my reading glasses. But, when I can see the marks, they are easy to read....I feel safe as long as my audience does not know about using the "riffle test" to catch marked cards.

That is why I opt for juice or luminous. The marks can be read from several feet away. In addition, since I am not close to the cards people (magicians) never suspect that I may be using a marked deck. This is because most "professional" pre-marked decks have small marks. In addition juice and luminous cannot be detected by the "riffle test" which fools those who think they are "in the know" :)

I think that some effects which allow your audience to handle the cards from several feet away can be very disarming when juice and luminous are used.

That is my 2 cents.
Message: Posted by: boris (Nov 22, 2005 03:42PM)
[quote]
On 2005-11-21 08:33, ludmer wrote:
Hocus-Pocus says:
[quote]The Ultimate Marked Deck is the first marked deck printed by the U.S Playing Card Company. The mark itself is incorporated on the design of the back (bicycle rider back 808-R Premium). The mark will instantly reveal the card's number and suit. The magician can instantly recognize the hidden mark allowing him to identify any chosen card's number and suit at a glance.
[/quote]
Well... wasn´t the Boris wild MD "THE" first one printed by the USPC?

Just got a little confused...


BTW,

BWMD is great.. a little "slower" than easier-to-read versions, such as Lesley´s, but great indeed.
[/quote]
The BWMD came out last summer and it is indeed the first Bicycle marked deck printed by the U.S Playing Card Company.
Message: Posted by: el diams (Nov 23, 2005 03:28PM)
That what I received on my mail from Magic Dream:

[quote]Hello,

Many thanks for your interest in this new product !

Just to make things crystal-clear and to avoid any confusion with the other marked decks available on the market, here are a couple precisions : the Ultimate Marked Deck is the ONLY marked deck in existence with the marks directly "incorporated" (i.e. DRAWN) into the original USPC Bicycle Rider Back design. This means that you only need to READ the marks (just like you would watch a picture) to instantly know the value and suit of the card. To make things even more simple to understand, I have included a couple sample cards on the link below.

http://www.magicdream.fr/bicycleulitmate.php

I hope it will clear things up!
All the best form Paris,

Jean-Marc GAHERI
[/quote]
Jean Marc Gaheri is one of the creators of the Ultimate Marked Deck.
Message: Posted by: CALENIG (Nov 27, 2005 01:50PM)
Thanks for that, I think I shall invest in this.
Message: Posted by: Robert Sixx (Nov 27, 2005 04:03PM)
I think that I will be picking up a couple of these as well! I think I'll be able to see them without my glasses -- gotta love getting old!

Sixx
Message: Posted by: Matt Pulsar (Nov 27, 2005 04:36PM)
It would be great if they would sell you three or four at a time. It makes it hard to incorperate the deck into your act. I used to do a few effects with a marked deck, but worked out ways to do them with a stack because of the time wear on a maked deck of cards. Always looks bad to work with a deck with worn or dirty edges. Don't want to get stuck with having to rebuy or remark every week. Expecially if they cost thirty bucks. I guess they could produce them on those plastic cards poker players are buying. Those cost at least ten bucks and do last, but you can't even get a good fan out of most of them. In the end I know some great effects that can only be accomplished with a marked deck, and reading marks for some of my favorites (spcetator as magician by ted lessley for instance,) is easier than doing all the false shuffles and handling a stack.
Message: Posted by: Expertmagician (Nov 27, 2005 08:01PM)
That is why I prefer to mark my own cards. The cost to mark my own is about $4 per deck, so I can use new decks frequently using juice or luminous. In addition, I can read juice or luminous from a distance with or without my reading glasses.

But, these cards look good for a variation of the Wild and Lesley system.
Message: Posted by: tommy (Nov 27, 2005 09:15PM)
I find it odd that you guys, who show your face and use your real name, admit on a public forum that you use readers. What if your fans read this? Will they not think this guy is cheating! I use "cheating" for want of a better word.

Regards

Tommy
Message: Posted by: Matt Pulsar (Nov 28, 2005 06:40AM)
I don't think I know anyone who would come to this site who wasn't a magician. At least to some degree
Message: Posted by: Expertmagician (Nov 28, 2005 07:55AM)
Wearing sunglasses or Groucho Marks glasses disguises people's faces :)

As besides, I agree with Stuartpalm statements that which magic techniques may be used for gambling. The members of this forum and truely interested in magic for the sake of the art.
Message: Posted by: GusVanNostrum (Nov 28, 2005 08:24AM)
[quote]
On 2005-11-01 06:35, Gluestick wrote:
Why buy a marked deck when they are so easy to do yourself?

The ultimate marked deck is the one that you invent for yourself.

It can be so easy.
[/quote]

Yes. And what about all this hype over the Lesley-variations?

Learn a memorized stack and all you need is six dots
Message: Posted by: Sean Macfarlane (Dec 18, 2005 03:07AM)
I got a deck and I love it!! Just a quick look and you got a read. I like this better than the Boris Wild Deck.

Best,

Sean
Message: Posted by: tonycrew (Dec 18, 2005 04:30AM)
I marke my own decks.. I have 2 marked a red biker and a blue biker.. they aint fully marked there just certain ones marked... It's easy to mark your own biker decks you can do it really good with just a red or blue sharpie.
Message: Posted by: Steven Leung (Apr 26, 2010 05:06AM)
Maybe it is just me, my Ultimate Mark Deck just way too stiff when compare with normal deck in normal situation without heavy use...

Anyone have this experience... cards cannot fan and stick like a brick.
Message: Posted by: Donal Chayce (Apr 26, 2010 08:51PM)
Nope.
Message: Posted by: Steven Keyl (Apr 27, 2010 09:55AM)
I've got 2 decks of UMD cards and have no problem spreading/fanning them. They handle like normal bikes.
Message: Posted by: Groucho (Apr 28, 2010 07:16AM)
My UMD also sticks and doesn't fan very well. I recently bought some fanning powder for the first time, but haven't used it yet.

I might try test on another deck first since the UMD doesn't come very cheap in Australia.
Message: Posted by: itsmagicmatt (Sep 7, 2010 12:58AM)
Is there anyone that can pm or email me an example of the ultimate marked deck markings. and if that is even ok with out breaking any rules I have 3 marked decks just currious what the markings on this deck look like thanks, Matt

also how can delete a thread I started with this same post no need to have it twice thanks
Message: Posted by: s3rg3 (Sep 10, 2010 06:35PM)
I also have different marked decks. Some work for me some don't. I don't like the ones with juice.

The UMD is perfect for this purpose. Easy to read when you know what you are looking for.

Well chosen name for this deck.

Rgds
Serge
Message: Posted by: Failed Magician (Sep 22, 2010 09:17PM)
For those who use Ted Lesley's, is it really good? I mean, will it affect the sliding of the cards when spreading on the table?
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (Oct 13, 2010 10:01PM)
A good friend of mine in Paris sent me an Ultimate M***** Deck (UMD) from the Magic Dream shop near the Eiffel Tower which I received today. Bottom line? For me this is the best MD that I have yet owned.

The Ma*****s are super easy to see, and the Bicycle edition is clean as a whistle, and overall I am thrilled with this new tool for my arsenal!

I had a Dekram Deck that I bought many years ago but to me it always lacked something as it looked like a gimmicky deck.

Highly recommended - the uses for this are numerous. My next Poker game with the boys lol!?
Message: Posted by: Expertmagician (Oct 14, 2010 01:27PM)
For those of you who need eye glasses to see....you know that trying to read a UMD or Boris Wild deck deck may be problematic.

So, you may want to consider learning how to read Juice or use a Luminous deck. Unfortunately, Juice and Luminous are much more expensive than a UMD or Luminous deck.

In addition, trying to read a UMD or Borris Wild deck across a table (8 feet away) is difficult unless you have VERY sharp eyes :kewl:

Like everything else in light...every product has it's pros and cons. The trick is to use the right tool for the right environment.
Message: Posted by: Woland (Oct 14, 2010 09:05PM)
I also received an Ultimate Marked Deck today, from Penguin.

It is shockingly easy to read, and yet I think the markings would be invisible to anyone who was not actually looking for them.

It arrived without ANY instructions at all, and I was worried that I would not be able to find the marks . . . well, there is actually an instruction card packaged with it, and believe me, it is a lead pipe cinch.

I have a slight further customization in mind, which I think will make it even more deadly.

Woland
Message: Posted by: CardCutter (Oct 24, 2010 06:17PM)
How can you make a "great" marked deck?
Message: Posted by: Expertmagician (Oct 25, 2010 08:05AM)
A lot depends on your definition of "great".

You can make a good marked deck using a razor, transfer lettering and other methods...But, all these techniques result in a deck that is generally called "cut-out" or "block out work".

All block-out and cut-out work may be easily detected by using the "gambliers riffle test", sometimes called "going to the movies" and other names.

The most deceptive marked cards on the market today is either Juice or Luminous. Both or which are expensive to find or make a "great" marked deck.

In addition, Juice and luminous is overkill for most magicians unless they have the most demanding and/or knowledgeable audiences.
Message: Posted by: Steven Keyl (Oct 25, 2010 12:04PM)
To my mind, juice and luminous decks are most at home at the card table. Either as "legitimate" cheating or for gambling (pseudo-magic) demonstrations. For a traditional magic performance juice decks seem to be overkill.

I have performed for a lot of people and only once did someone know about the "gambler's riffle test". This same person also knew about juice decks. These results may not be representative but I'd wager that anyone that knows about the gambler's riffle test is also savvy enough to know about juicing decks as well.

Regardless what type of marked decks you use, the absolute best way to minimize detection is to only use them for those effects that are layered in such a way that even if someone could deconstruct that the deck was marked, that fact alone would NOT be enough to deconstruct the entire effect.

Most effects that make use of marked decks can be handled via sleights and other chickanery to obviate their use.
Message: Posted by: CardCutter (Oct 25, 2010 02:24PM)
Hmmm never imagined about using a razor, sounds like a good idea.
Message: Posted by: Expertmagician (Oct 25, 2010 10:30PM)
[quote]
On 2010-10-25 15:24, CardCutter wrote:
Hmmm never imagined about using a razor, sounds like a good idea.
[/quote]

Just be aware that a razor works well...but, has 2 downsides:

1) Looks like "cut-out" work which can be detected with the gambler riffle test
2) If light hits the cards from an angle, people will be able to see the damaged finish which you marked the card.

But, as Steven K. stated....this technique to mark cards works will work well for most magic effects because the audience is probably not looking for marks anyway.

I personally, like fooling "those in the know" and tend to overkill for maximum deception :) Of course, every person knows their own audience.
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (Oct 27, 2010 11:39PM)
I've been performing a killer effect with the UMD that derived from the DeKram deck from years ago:

PLOT: Deck is presented to the spectator and they are asked to look the cards over and shuffle thoroughly. The spec is asked to cut the deck to approximately 2 equal halves and asked to further choose one pile, and the other will be the Magician's.

Spec is then asked to copy the Magician- Magician cuts to a random card at their pile and looks at it and remembers it, and then places it to the side face down. Spec is asked to do the same and remember their selection.

The spec is then asked to lose their card in their pile, and shuffle them thoroughly - and the Magician does the same. The spec and Magician then trade piles, and spec is asked to try to to use their intuition to locate the Magician's chosen card and the Magician will try to do locate the specs chosen card.

Magician places one card to the side face down and the spec does the same. Spec is asked to name their selection, and then to turn over the card Magician's card.

Magician names their selected card - which is shown to match the specs selection!

I don't know anything about the history of this treatment but it goes over REALLY beautifully - especially with the Ultimate Marked Deck. Good luck back tracking any of this too. Very fun stuff.
Message: Posted by: M for Magic (Dec 20, 2010 11:07PM)
That's a great effect.
Message: Posted by: Failed Magician (Dec 21, 2010 10:18AM)
[quote]
On 2010-10-28 00:39, saysold1 wrote:
I've been performing a killer effect with the UMD that derived from the DeKram deck from years ago:

PLOT: Deck is presented to the spectator and they are asked to look the cards over and shuffle thoroughly. The spec is asked to cut the deck to approximately 2 equal halves and asked to further choose one pile, and the other will be the Magician's.

Spec is then asked to copy the Magician- Magician cuts to a random card at their pile and looks at it and remembers it, and then places it to the side face down. Spec is asked to do the same and remember their selection.

The spec is then asked to lose their card in their pile, and shuffle them thoroughly - and the Magician does the same. The spec and Magician then trade piles, and spec is asked to try to to use their intuition to locate the Magician's chosen card and the Magician will try to do locate the specs chosen card.

Magician places one card to the side face down and the spec does the same. Spec is asked to name their selection, and then to turn over the card Magician's card.

Magician names their selected card - which is shown to match the specs selection!

I don't know anything about the history of this treatment but it goes over REALLY beautifully - especially with the Ultimate Marked Deck. Good luck back tracking any of this too. Very fun stuff.
[/quote]

That's a really, I mean REALLY good routine.

Btw, someone also recommended me Predicta, I don't even know what that is.

What's the main difference between SUM Deck and UMD? I know what an UMD is, I just want to know about SUM.
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (Dec 21, 2010 10:32AM)
[quote]
On 2005-11-17 20:45, Dennis Loomis wrote:
I got one of these in the mail from Paris this afternoon. I think it's quite good. I certainly prefer it to the Boris Wild Deck. However, it's kind of expensive. They want American dealers to see them for $30.00 What do you think, guy? Would you pay that? As a dealer, it's hard for me to be subjective, but I'm leaning toward NOT handling it because I'm afraid they would be a very slow mover at the price. Even though it's a good product.

Denny Loomis
[/quote]

Dennis - I may be an exception but I have bought two of these so far - One directly from the Parisian shop and the other from.

Yes indeed, the price is a tad high - but these are Bikes and the markings to me are NOT the same as the DeKram - they are much better. Being Bikes makes this deck 100% more invisible as a MD to a spec - which to me justifies the price. Since USPCC is no longer allowing changes to the back design in the future (correct me if I am wrong on this) then these Ultimate Marked Decks are a wonderful value and will be much rarer 10 years henceforth.

Will these sell? Well you are in sales... The reviews and quality are very strong. The Blaine decks are a much better value - but they aren't Bikes. Will a spec care? Probably not. But will these sell? I would recommend carrying them as there are many strong reasons to pick one up now rather than being ****ed off years from now that you can't easily buy them again. My 2 cents.
Message: Posted by: MaxfieldsMagic (Dec 21, 2010 10:14PM)
I've collected a pretty good collection of "reveals" over the years (ie, Tricycle deck box, Sharpie that changes into a card, dog tag that changes into one of two cards, a bruise that reveals a card, a tattoo reveal, etc), so I just have about twelve cards together in the middle of the UMD that all have one of these reveals ready to go. Then you try to get them to take one of the twelve cards as you spread the deck, sort of like a classic force with eleven outs. If that doesn't work, there's always a folded prediction in the Mystery Box or Lightening Box, using an in**x (NOT an MCF, at the price of this deck...), or just go into a trick that doesn't require a specific card. Anyway, this deck is a pretty bombproof way to get across an impressive effect.
Message: Posted by: Russell Davidson (Dec 22, 2010 02:36AM)
Saysold - That routine is very similiar (if not the same) to a Wayne Dobson one in his booklet 'Special Effects'.
Message: Posted by: Failed Magician (Dec 22, 2010 10:30AM)
The one saysold put sounds like Do As I Do on steroids tho. I love it! I gotta get one of these UMD.
Message: Posted by: JanForster (Dec 22, 2010 11:38AM)
And very much like "Diplopia". Jan
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (Dec 23, 2010 03:27PM)
Check this out...

The Magic Depot is now showing that the ULTIMATE MARKED DECK is now ***discontinued***

Huh? No way...rue? I mean I know that USPCC won't allow back design changes anymore on the 808's but I just didn't imagine that these would start "disappearing" so soon?

If true I would still grab a few extras soon as Penguin still has 'em.

http://www.magic.org/store/product_info.php?products_id=5742
Message: Posted by: Failed Magician (Dec 23, 2010 09:59PM)
Ouch, that's guick. I have to grab one of these soon then!
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (Dec 24, 2010 08:32AM)
I just received a sad email today from the Magic Dream store in Paris, creator and maker of the Ultimate Marked Deck:

"Yes it is true unfortunately, they will no longer be made. Thanks for the nice comment.

Have a nice day,
Clement

Magic Dream"
Message: Posted by: ablanathanalba (Dec 26, 2010 06:24PM)
Not having seen this deck, is there a huge advantage over the Lesley system?
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (Dec 26, 2010 06:50PM)
I'm not that familiar with the Lesley system but here is an old link...

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=102913&forum=109

The system that was created for the UMD matches perfectly with the back design, and so is pretty much invisible unless you know where to look. The marking are not huge so those with poor vision may have trouble.

The new David Blaine cards are also great (and a super value for the $ and the quality), but UMD uses 808 Bikes which makes them pretty special - and they will not be around forever apparently.
Message: Posted by: boinko (Dec 26, 2010 06:55PM)
Well, you can save yourself a bunch of grief and just get Pete McCabe's recent marking system.

Mark normal bikes -- and it's 20 bucks. It's far better than a single deck, IMHO.
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (Dec 26, 2010 07:11PM)
I keep hearing great things about Pete McCabes system. Worth checking out if you don't mind doing a little work.
Message: Posted by: ablanathanalba (Dec 26, 2010 08:37PM)
I'm just wondering if I want to spend $25 for the pre-made version. Funny you mention McCabe, I just came across that a couple of days ago and looked interesting. I think I might go with that for the versatility of marking multiple decks in both colors. Thanks!
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (Dec 27, 2010 12:28PM)
[quote]
On 2010-12-24 09:32, saysold1 wrote:
I just received a sad email today from the Magic Dream store in Paris, creator and maker of the Ultimate Marked Deck:

"Yes it is true unfortunately, they will no longer be made. Thanks for the nice comment.

Have a nice day,
Clement

Magic Dream"
[/quote]

I just confirmed again that the Ultimate Marked Deck **will no longer be made in 808's** - so they are available (still) at some dealers while supplies last.

Magic Depot just responded that this item was discontinued some time ago and will no longer be available.
Message: Posted by: MaxfieldsMagic (Dec 27, 2010 11:04PM)
Thanks for the heads up, Saysold.
Message: Posted by: boinko (Dec 29, 2010 10:12AM)
[quote]
On 2010-12-26 20:11, saysold1 wrote:
I keep hearing great things about Pete McCabes system. Worth checking out if you don't mind doing a little work.
[/quote]

What's great about McCabe's system -- apart from the very clear marking system itself (better than the UMD, IMHO) -- is the effects he includes. Lots of interesting effects -- well worth the $$$.

BTW -- the UMD book is available and also recommended. Not sure if they'll still produce the book, but it's worth snagging if you're able to find it.
Message: Posted by: Failed Magician (Dec 31, 2010 12:53PM)
Does McCabe's system require us to do the markings by ourselves?

Between Boris Wild's and UMD, I think I have to go with UMD. Boris' version is nice but for some cards (royal cards), the markings (somehow) are more visible. They would be printed very close to the frame and for some eagle eye spectators, this is an easy spot on. I haven't used the Boris' deck with live performance so this is only my opinion but not based on experience.

I've seen UMD and I think it's more hidden as every single marking will be within the frame. However, Boris' has another advantage, the markings don't stay in one spot *winks*
Message: Posted by: boinko (Jan 10, 2011 11:29AM)
[quote]
On 2010-12-31 13:53, Failed Magician wrote:
Does McCabe's system require us to do the markings by ourselves?


[/quote]

Yes -- and that's the great thing. Pete's book goes into an insane level of detail about the proper placement for the markings. It's superb. The first deck takes a bit, but after that it's -- literally -- a matter of 15 minutes or so (even less) to mark a complete deck of bikes. Plus, as I say, Pete includes some killer effects (and ideas) in the PDF.
Message: Posted by: Failed Magician (Jan 10, 2011 10:00PM)
One time I've tried to mark it myself with a red Sharpie but the color looks off and can be spotted quickly from far away. Maybe it was only because I knew what I was looking for.
Message: Posted by: Expertmagician (Jan 11, 2011 10:46AM)
[quote]
On 2011-01-10 23:00, Failed Magician wrote:
One time I've tried to mark it myself with a red Sharpie but the color looks off and can be spotted quickly from far away. Maybe it was only because I knew what I was looking for.
[/quote]

By using a red marker...you are trying to do what is called "block-out" work.

If you want to do "cut-out" work, you can sue a razor to scrape or "cut-out" areas of the card. This is easier to do...but, both can easily be detected by using the gamblers riffle test or if light hits the card from an angle.

Enjoy and good luck !
Message: Posted by: Jack Baines (Jan 14, 2011 05:28PM)
[quote]
On 2011-01-10 23:00, Failed Magician wrote:
One time I've tried to mark it myself with a red Sharpie but the color looks off and can be spotted quickly from far away. Maybe it was only because I knew what I was looking for.
[/quote]

Apparently the red sharpie does not quite match the red back bicycle cards, but the blue sharipie ink is apparently a perfect match for the blue backed cards.

I've used it with bicycle backed ESP decks and its never been spotted.
Message: Posted by: Johnny4781 (Feb 20, 2011 01:57PM)
Hi Guys,

I have a few marked decks, but as I get older, my eyes are continuing to struggle with clearly seeing the markings... does McCabe's system use LARGER markings??

Thanks loads, Guys!!
Johnny
Message: Posted by: Woland (Feb 23, 2011 06:32PM)
Johnny,

To a certain extent, that's up to you. The exact size of the markings is a compromise between visibility and invisibility. If you follow the McCabe method *exactly* I think you will find the markings to be inconspicuous.

On the other hand, having to make them yourself does train your mind, your eye, and your mind's eye to find the markings in a way that may make a self-marked deck easier to use than a purchased-marked deck.

Hope this makes sense!

Woland
Message: Posted by: Expertmagician (Feb 24, 2011 07:23AM)
A self marked deck will also be more deceptive if you come up with your own marking pattern.

Ths is because people will be looking for "what they know", but, if you ue your own marking patterns finding them will be much more difficult...even for knowledgeable people.

Of course, the gamblers riffle test will be able to detect all cut-out or block-out work marks made with a razor (cut-out) or with a magic marker (block-out) work.

Remembering 13 marking patterns is easy...just make some flash cards (like school) and you should nail the memorization quickly.
Message: Posted by: Johnny4781 (Feb 24, 2011 09:07AM)
Dear Woland & Expertmagician,
Thank you for response & input!! It sounds like it should resolve my problem.... keep in mind that, at this point, I don't 'completely' understand what's involved, but I think I know more than I knew before ... this brings one more question to mind - what are the differences between the McCabe system & the "juice" markings I've heard about? And with my close-up, blurred vision, which system would you recommend?

Thanks so much, Guys!
Johnny
Message: Posted by: Woland (Feb 24, 2011 09:51AM)
Johnny,

Mr. McCabe's system is closer to Mr. Ted Lesley's, the UMD, and I think Mr. Wild's than it is to "juicing." I honestly can't say which one "you" will find more usable. (I don't use a "juiced" deck.) I would suggest you make up one of each and gain direct experience . . . .

Hope this helps.

Woland
Message: Posted by: Expertmagician (Feb 24, 2011 05:28PM)
Juice is VERY different than the marked cards discussed in this thread. You are correct about reading Juice by "unfocusing" your eyes...this does not mean squinting or crossing your eyes. It WILL take practice to read Juice marks and the pre-marked Juice decks are not a good idea to buy....you will find that they are either too obvious because the marks are too intense or the marks are too subtle for beginners to read.

Juice marks ar VERY deceptive and work better on some back designs than others. In addition, different marking patterns need to be used based upon the cards you are using.

Personally, think Juice is OVERKILL for most magicians unless they work for a VERY knowledgeable audience.
Message: Posted by: Johnny4781 (Feb 25, 2011 04:45PM)
Hello again Woland & Expertmagician,

Thank you once again for your input & I will experiment & see what works best for me!! If you get any more ideas to share with me, please feel free to submit them here & I will check back every now & then.

Thanks loads, Guys!!
Johnny
Message: Posted by: eddie2m (Mar 28, 2011 05:43PM)
Can anyone give me a source for purchasing poker sized card boxes that are completely blank?.
No printing at all! I appreciate any info.
Thanks Eddie
Message: Posted by: Expertmagician (Mar 30, 2011 08:45AM)
Why not open a box and turn it inside out ? I did not try it....But, it may work if you just want to print on one side.
Message: Posted by: ciel (Mar 30, 2011 12:24PM)
Eddie2m try the Card collection in the Uk ,they always had them on their list.
Message: Posted by: Papa Legba (Nov 2, 2015 11:18AM)
[quote]On Nov 4, 2005, PapaG wrote:
Anyone have experience of the Fournier marked deck that is marketed? [/quote]No direct experience of the Fournier but I like what I see and will be getting one.

I have the DMC marked deck and I absoluteley love it. I have blown people away with my mind reading stunts. This deck is available from Davenports and is reviewed on youtube.
Message: Posted by: mtgoldstein (Nov 5, 2015 07:31PM)
Blank playing card source: Amazon bricks of 250 and 500. standard card stock and inecpensivr

+1 on DMC Deck
Message: Posted by: RiBo (Dec 11, 2015 03:58AM)
[quote]On Nov 5, 2015, mtgoldstein wrote:
Blank playing card source: Amazon bricks of 250 and 500. standard card stock and inecpensivr

+1 on DMC Deck [/quote]

I've considered trying the DMC deck before, but the DMC markings look so obvious to me, I worry that they will be similarly obvious to an audience. How do they play to spectators? In close up? Do they just leap out to me because I've been using readers for so long?
Message: Posted by: Trentonmatthew (Jul 5, 2020 10:51AM)
I had the same experience using a red sharpie on a pack of red bikes. I’m curious if anyone has found a pen that is a perfect match?