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Topic: Doesn't everyone know
Message: Posted by: magicguy67 (Nov 28, 2005 04:25PM)
I thought almost every laymen knew how the cups and balls worked.

what are your views on this.


thres no reality in magic
joey
Message: Posted by: BroDavid (Nov 28, 2005 04:37PM)
The same has been said for linking rings, TTs, and numerous other classics. It may be true, and it may not be true. I personally don't think it is true.

But so what? One way or the other, it doesn't make a difference. have you ever read a book, and then gone to see the movie of the same name? How much did it help to know how it ended? Did you even think about what you knew while you enoying the movie?

I am just beginning cups and balls, so I wont comment on them. But I do linking rings a lot, and I have had expereicned magicians come up to me after a ring routine and say, I knew what you were doing but I couldn't see it. And those guys are looking for the moves. ;) And I have also had laymen come up to me and say, I have a set of those rings at home, but mine work differently, they have an opening. I laugh, and say, so do mine, and I put my arm through one of them, and we both laugh.

It isn't the magic, it is the magician that makes the difference. If you are somewhat skilled, involving and are entertaining them, it doesn't matter if they really know or not, because you are going to take them on a magical journey of the mind that so engages them that they have no time to try to bust you.

If you are a lousey performer and flash every sleight, and they are bored enough to try and catch you then you might get busted ocassionally. But so what?

BroDavid
Message: Posted by: Steve V (Nov 28, 2005 04:56PM)
I agree with my bestest pal BroDavid. The rings are a great example. I think you could flat out show the specs how it works then do a routine and if it as good routine it won't matter. That doesn't mean you should tell 'em how it is done but you, hopefully, get the point.
Steve V
Message: Posted by: Zack (Nov 28, 2005 11:44PM)
Huh? How DO the cups and balls work?

Unlike the rings, there is no central method...its a bunch of techniques and some excellent misdirection.

Once the final loads come out, their heads explode.
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Nov 28, 2005 11:58PM)
If you have an entertaining routine, it matters not!
Those that know will just be even more impressed at how absolutely wonderful you did the routine.

They will enjoy it even more than the others maybe because of the hat load, or possible final loads but it will be the first time they have seen someone command attention, complete with howls of laughter, garnished with wonderful comedy, witty conversation, a few good one-liners, a callback to your first effect. They will be stunned by your enthusiasm and your character... and becuase of this their head will explode.

And they might even walk up, shake your hand and let you know that they knew about the effect but.. WOW!, so that's how you do the cups and balls the right way.

There might be people that know IT, but they won't know IT could be so damm well.

And into your hat will go the money.
Message: Posted by: Ben Whiting (Nov 29, 2005 01:07AM)
I agree Frank. People don't stop just to see the magic, they stop to see the performance.

I think Doc says it best; people don't remember what you do, they remember how you make them feel. Of course the final loads under the cups help a little I think :)
Message: Posted by: geemack (Nov 29, 2005 08:55AM)
I think of the Cups & Balls as a set of tools, much like a painter's brush and canvas or a musician's instrument. How do they work? You hold them like this, and move your hands around this way and that, and if you've done it properly wondrous things will occur. I don't think many in the audience really apply much concern to how the tools and instruments work, that is if the artist or performer has gone beyond a simple demonstration of mechanical technique.

But I am curious to know what you think, [b]joey[/b]. I'm with [b]Zack[/b]. How do the Cups & Balls work? What is it about the method(s) that you believe to be common knowledge among laymen, and how do you think they've come to acquire this knowledge?

Greg
Message: Posted by: Mario Morris (Nov 29, 2005 09:37AM)
I start from the belief layman simply don't know how C&B work if you work it right, even magicians can be fooled. Cups and balls are a great classic of magic for this reason they have stood the test of time. You create the magic in beleving it your self. For example when you vanish a ball, you first have to believe that it has vanished from your hand as you stair into your now empty hand this translates to your audience. That is what separates a trick from magic all unbelief to belief.
Mario
Message: Posted by: magicguy67 (Nov 29, 2005 03:20PM)
Well no I mean like when you start with the ball vanish and stuff the people iive had said they know thers 4 balls.Maybe I didn't practrice enough.But when you produce fruit from them that fools them I'm just talking a bout general balls.
Message: Posted by: BroDavid (Nov 29, 2005 04:05PM)
I don't beielve that very many street magicians who do the cups and balls,do it without a final load of something amazing? Maybe fruit, maybe baseballs....

So the small ball handling gets lost in the whole entertainment experience.

But even the ball vanishs and reappearances, etc, can be pure magic in teh right hands.

Check out Gazzo's cups and balls... He even tells them what he is doing (sort of...) and still fries them. Nobody else is Gazzo, of course.

But if you aren't fooling them with sleights and entertaining them otherwise, you might be doing something wrong.

BroDavid
Message: Posted by: Michael Baker (Nov 29, 2005 05:17PM)
[quote]
On 2005-11-29 16:20, magicguy67 wrote:
...I'm just talking a bout general balls.
[/quote]
General Balls relies on Major Balls to push forward and carry on in the face of adversity. Practice makes perfect and persistence pays off. The trick has been entertaining and fooling people for a long, long time. Better to suck now and learn from the experience, than to suck later with no time left to fix it. :)

~michael
Message: Posted by: Mario Morris (Nov 29, 2005 05:18PM)
Joey
If you do it right then they don't. Give them the cups to handle first pop three balls on top of each cup that's it. The rest is real magic.
Mario
Message: Posted by: rikbrooks (Nov 30, 2005 07:12AM)
I don't think that the layman has a clue about how the cups work. I've never had a spectator come to me and say that he knew how they worked. I had one that told me that he bought the Adam's set (well, he said little plastic cups) but couldn't understand the instructions.

I looked at the instructions that came with my set (YES, I still have them after all these years, the trick AND the instructions), and found that it might indeed be hard for someone that is unfamiliar with magic.
Message: Posted by: foolsnobody (Nov 30, 2005 11:24PM)
Well I just gave a seven year old a magic set for his birthday (endorsed by IBM but when we got it open I thought it sucked but I didn't tell him.) Anyway in there is a set of plastic cups and balls, some sponge rabbits, not just totally self working stuff. So this kid will soon know there are four balls, but he won't know how to do anything except the penetration routine. He won't know about false transfers, loads, etc. In other words he won't know anything! So even if he loses interest in magic and twenty years from now comes upon a busker doing the cups he won't have a clue! And neither do any of the people the original poster is concerned about unless they were really into magic at some point in their lives.
Message: Posted by: sethb (Dec 1, 2005 01:13PM)
To paraphrase P.T. Barnum, "There's a new spectator born every minute."

After all, The Cups & Balls have survived as a premiere effect for hundreds if not thousands of years, so I have no doubt that there's still a little mileage left in this magic classic.

I have also had a few people tell me that they had "the little plastic cups" when they were a kid, but my brass cups and balls obviously must not work the same way(!) SETH