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Topic: Knots Off
Message: Posted by: Bob Sanders (Nov 29, 2005 10:11AM)
Knots Off Silk has been a great audience pleaser for as long as I can remember. One (and sometimes several for different colors) stays in my bag all the time.

However, of the many attempts to accomplish the same with rope, I've yet to see a very convincing routine. With cored rope there has to be a way. For those of you who really know me, you know that I go through miles of rope. It would be nice to get this one into the act.

What have any of you seen or used that would keep it in a rope routine instead of having to go to silks for this effect?

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander
Message: Posted by: Jimmy Joza (Dec 1, 2005 11:21AM)
Pavel's Invisible Rope comes to mind but I'm not sure about the "convincing factor" that you are looking for, Bob. This is the routine in which "the performer shows two plastic cups. He feigns to pull an imaginary length of rope from one cup and, after having displayed it as a regular piece of rope, he coils it around his hand and places the invisible bundle back inside the cup. A real length of rope is then pulled out of the second cup. The rope is knotted in three places and put back in the cup. Magically, the invisible rope is taken from the cup and three real knots are tied in it! When the real rope is removed, it is free from knots. Instead, three vacant places have appeared in the rope! Complete routine, gimmicked four-part rope, special knot stuff, and two plastic cups."

It will be interesting to see what folks come up with around this.

Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Dec 1, 2005 01:01PM)

I am unclear as to what you are refering to for this effect. Most good Cut & Restored rope routines include a 'knot off rope'. I end my short & Long rope routine by tying the ends and having the spectator blow on the knot as I twirl the rope. When he blows the knot flys off the rope and into the audience.

The old traveling knot is on rope using a reel and plucking the knot off the rope and tossing the knot out is good also. This was put out by a long closed shop called Martin Magic in Ill. Ken Brooke also sold a version.

If you want the spaces after the knot is gone for the gag, then Jimmy Joza suggested Pavel. It is not a magical mystery but entertaining.

So maybe you can clairfy.
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Dec 1, 2005 02:23PM)
I don't understand your question, but there is Aldo Colombini's "knotty knot", Pavel's "fantastic knot", and Daryl's "amazing acrobatic knot" (formerly known as "the jumping knot of Pakistan"), knotty knot is a walkaround trick, fantastic knot is a simple version of the Daryl trick, both are for the stage.
Knockem dead Bob
Message: Posted by: Bob Sanders (Dec 2, 2005 12:25AM)
My question was not clear. You are all right!

What I was looking for was a parallel to the silk effect Knots Off Silk (Pavel gets the most credit). That is where the knots is tied in front of the viewer but VERY visibly slides down and off (in this case) the rope. It is not the same as any of the cut and restored routines and tricks. Those expose ends of the knot. Also, unlike most of the rope tricks mentioned, it never leaves total sight of the viewer.

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Dec 2, 2005 08:24AM)

Quite honestly, the tricks I mentioned are not exactly what you are asking for but they all have different color knots moving, sliding, and disappearing.

Message: Posted by: Jimmy Joza (Dec 2, 2005 08:32AM)
I thought your question was clear. However, it is the solution that has not clarified itself in our minds or in our recollection. And the "cover" is not the same as with silks. Pavel's Invisible Rope trick comes closest if you leave out the invisible rope part. The three knots can be tied and then visibly rolled down the rope one at a time, as you roll the rope around your hand. You can let each knot fall down to the floor or place each knot on a table and when you unroll the rope the "gap" is seen on the rope where the know was. However, I am not sure about the "convincing factor" with this one. As you hinted: it is no coincidence that a number of the options mentioned point to Pavel.

I can't wait to hear other alternatives.

Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Dec 2, 2005 08:57AM)
Pavel's "black knot" may be just the ticket, check it out. I haven't had to answer this kind of impossible quest since my kids were little.
have fun
Al Angello
Message: Posted by: Bob Sanders (Dec 2, 2005 12:38PM)
Thank you gentlemen! I'll go fishing. The problem with most rope tricks is that they assume multiple pieces to begin with or by virtue of cutting. I want to tie the knot in the middle of one piece of rope. (It's for a speech about tying a knot in the rope and holding on. Of course, it doesn't work!)

Since you three have probably seen me perform, thanks for not asking how I was going to produce a dove from the rope left like I do with the Knots off Silk. I have no idea! The only thing going for me is the color.

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander
Message: Posted by: Spellbinder (Jan 19, 2006 05:03AM)
Suppose you started with a piece of rope with (for example) a blue colored section in the center. Then you tie a knot in the center of the rope, making a blue knot. Finally the blue knot begins to slip and ends up falling off the rope, leaving a plain white rope. This could give you the same effect as the Pavel silk routine.

Have you seen Pavel's "Krazy Knot"? That could also be what you are looking for.

Message: Posted by: Bob Sanders (Jan 26, 2006 09:49PM)
Professor Spellbinder,

I think you found it! Lucy says Pavel and I would have to share a brain. We are two of a kind. (Think? What box?)

Thank you!

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander

(Now to get enough aluminum cans to get $52.00. Perhaps I could put a "Do Not Litter" sign in the yard.)
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Jan 27, 2006 08:20AM)
Hey Bob
Spelbinder recommended two tricks, I don't know which one you are getting, but I do Pavel's "Krazy Knot", and I want to remind you to also buy the "finish" for krazy knot it is extra and some don't like it, but I have gotten a great response from it. I think it's all in the presentation, so if you get "Krazy Knot" I would be glad to tell you how I do it.
Have fun
Al Angello
Message: Posted by: Spellbinder (Jan 27, 2006 07:31PM)
The blue knot version isn't for sale. You have to make it yourself, but I know Bob Sanders can figure it out from doing the Knots Off Silk trick. It's the same thing, only different. So before he saves up $52 in aluminum cans, he might just get out a blue magic marker and give it a try.
Message: Posted by: Bob Sanders (Jan 27, 2006 09:01PM)

Thank you! This is encouraging. Because of your efforts the solution just blew my way.

Magic By Sander
Message: Posted by: John Long (Jan 31, 2006 01:21PM)
Sankey has an ungimmicked rope trick where the knot is tied in the rope(in front of the audience). The knot is then slid down the rope a few inches, displayed, slid some more and displayed.. Ultimately the knot is slid completely off the end of the rope.

I think the effect is named Believe it or Knot, and is on his Magic Tricks Anyone Can Do.

Fulve's Rope magic has a different method where the knot is tied, and then slid off in one motion: Slide Off.

These are certainly not as sophisticated as the stuff of Pavel, and may not be the effect you have in mind.

For myself, I enjoy the Panama Rope Trick(Tarbell 2), where the knots don't slide off, but all 3 pop-off (w/slight modification of what is described in Tarbell). It seems rather startling to the spectator, and your hands are no where near the knots when they pop-off right in front of their eyes.

Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Jan 31, 2006 02:06PM)
That pop off knot, is it like Aldo Colombini's "Knotty Knot", or the one Whit Haydin uses for "the Mongolian pop knot"?
Al Angello
Message: Posted by: John Long (Feb 1, 2006 05:07PM)
Hi Al

There are 2 different sources of the pop-off knots in the Panama Rope trick variation that I do(PR itself uses only one pop-off).

The first is one that you tie(as in Fulves Rope p47, which I think you have, and I assume is like part of Haydn's MPOK, all that in and out stuff :)) in the middle of the "cut" rope.

The other 2 pop-offs are created by how you cut two other legitimate knots in the rope (see the Shaggy Dog Panama, p115 of the new Encyclopedia of Rope, and is ~similar to Fulve's Siberian Rope Release, p42, or if you happen to have Wilson's 12 Gospel Tricks with Rope, or Todd's The Gospel in Ropes, this method of creating a pop-off knot can be found).

The variation of the Panama rope trick that I do also goes by the name Hamburg Rope trick and is in Harry Baron's Cloes-up Magic for Beginners. (found this in my local library).

I really like the effect for presenting a Gospel type of message(I have 2 different patter), but there is a lot cutting and knot tieing before the magic occurs: all 3 knots pop-off right before their eyes, and you end clean.

That should get you going on this

I've seen
Message: Posted by: Bob Sanders (Feb 6, 2006 11:44AM)
Fulves seems to be the right place to start most of time.

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander