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Topic: I hate to say this...
Message: Posted by: KingStardog (Nov 22, 2002 11:05AM)
Book or not, David Blaine does not do street magic at all.
Street magic or busking is very different than what David Blaine does and what this forum covers.

David is a Guerrilla magician. He hides and strikes targets of opportunity.

Say it: Guerrilla Magic (it's new) and I coined the phrase. You heard it here first.

It's OK the world will not end. There is now a new kind of magic.

Guerilla Magic. :lol:
Message: Posted by: BroDavid (Nov 22, 2002 11:55AM)
Yep! That sounds good.

And for "Gorilla Magic", you need a TV Network and camera crew, and video editors, and the ability to call it spontaneous and keep a straight smirk.

BroDavid
Message: Posted by: KingStardog (Nov 22, 2002 12:07PM)
Should the Café open a new forum for Guerilla magic?

Bro David,

"Gorilla" magic is when you strong arm the specs with a camera crew and TV network people...oh ....i see.

Well now we need two new forums. One for Me
and one for David Blaine. :lol:
Message: Posted by: Magicman01462 (Nov 22, 2002 02:28PM)
I find it hilarious that you people can even recognize this man, he wrote a book, with the exception of a few, i'm sure none of you have put the time and effort into writing one, it gets annoying the fact that all of you people cannot just tkae it for a book, i'm not worshiping the man, i recognize that he is a magician, and thats about it, if i had said the same thjing about Copperfield, people would have been all for it, but just because this man has better acting skills and showmanship thanh many of you does not give people the right to put down other magicians, i've been doing magic for about 13 years of my life, and you know, it seems to be the people who have insecurities about there own skills that are unable to say, well yes, that was interesting or whatever
so all i'm asking, think before about what people have accomplished before you go magician bashing....
Message: Posted by: Jim Davis (Nov 22, 2002 03:37PM)
[quote]
On 2002-11-22 15:28, Magicman01462 wrote:
think before about what people have accomplished before you go magician bashing....


[/quote]

I have to agree to an extent with you. We haven't accomplished anything like he has. Three network TV shows and a book read by not only magicians but lay fans. Oh what I'd do to have the same. The problem that most concerns me about his "persona" is that he missrepresents some aspects of the magic community. It's not that I don't like him or his magic, it's that I don't like my performances being compared to his. I'm not saying I'm better, just different. Good luck to him and to you as well!
Message: Posted by: KingStardog (Nov 22, 2002 03:48PM)
Hey no bashing intended. Merely a harmless chuckle. I don't think much of Copperfeild or a lot of the other so called superstars.
I own quite a few garbage books from big name folks who coudln't deliver at the expense of my pocket book.

My intention was to create an awarness of a new type of magic. David does not perform on the street, all day long, and pass the hat to get by, or as a main form of income. He is not a street magician. If he becomes one, let me know, and I will go and watch.

David does Guerilla Magic.

I also do Guerilla Magic, (just not on TV)and there is no embarrasment in forcing magic on unsuspecting victims....I mean spectators. I was doing the Balducci a couple years before the specials.

Anyone who steps in front of the camera or writes a book, has put/sold themselves out for inspection. Me too, If I write one.

Whats wrong with Guerilla Magic?
Message: Posted by: Peter Marucci (Nov 22, 2002 10:59PM)
I hardly think honest criticism and sincere passion should be confused with "magician bashing."

And, no, Blaine does NOT do street magic or busking; he does, as KingStardog say, "guerrilla magic."

BTW, King, I've heard the term "guerrilla magic" for years now; so, unless you're about my age, I doubt that you coined the phrase, although you may have come up with it independently.
And, anyway, it's spelled with TWO "r"s.
:nod:
Message: Posted by: Jim Davis (Nov 23, 2002 10:43AM)
guerrilla magic... armed by the enemy for the benifit of an overthrow? Whom are we overthrowing?

Sorry.. the visual has hit me more than once.. a mess of top hat, tux wearing magicians armed with playing card and magic wands all yelling hocus pocus at each other.. :rolleyes:

Again sorry..
Message: Posted by: Allan (Nov 23, 2002 12:05PM)
As a fulltime close-up magician, I have nothing but envy for David Blaine's financial success. I envy his fame & fortune. I will never reach the level that he has attained. However, that does not make him a good magician. He cannot perform in public. He depends on multiple performances to people that have never seen a good magician perform. We don't see all the bad footage that was taken. We only see the footage of a performance that went well. I have no respect for the man a magician. But I have the utmost respect for him as a promotor. It only goes to show how far you can go without any real talent or personality.
Message: Posted by: Danny Hustle (Nov 23, 2002 05:00PM)
[quote]
On 2002-11-23 13:05, Allan wrote:
, that does not make him a good magician. He cannot perform in public. He depends on multiple performances to people that have never seen a good magician perform. [/quote]

**sigh**

This is simply not true. I recently got in touch with an old friend. She is a 'B' list actress you may or may not have heard of. It really doesn't matter.

What does matter is several years ago she traveled in some pretty high profile circles and at several parties David Blaine was in attendance. This was long before his first TV special.

He was working, doing magic, for real people. She said he was great and really 'freaked people out'.

This being said, he was doing his job, he entertained, people were fooled, a good time was had by all, and he got paid. Hell, he dated Madonna before the TV special.

I'd say that makes him a good magician, in my book anyway. I know a lot of hacks who work pretty regular that people say, 'oh, he was okay. he helpped kill an hour or so.'

That is what I would call a not so good magician.

I give credit where credit is due. I stand on the street and bring a show to real people. I entertain with magic. They like what I do and give me money to show it. I do not do technically heavy handed stuff because real people do not care. They want to have fun and be mystified.

Sounds like David Blaine did the same. I've never spent any time with Mr. Blaine so it would be presumptious of me to cast verdict on his skills by what he presented on TV for real people to enjoy.

For all we know in private he could be doing stuff that would floor us all.

Also, those TV specials have done more good for my business in magic than anything else in the past 15 years. Young people think magic is hip again.

A highschool would not have booked me 10 years ago because the kids wanted it. They would have booked me because some adult thought it was good clean fun. Today the kids spend their car wash money to book me. That tickles me.

I don't have to work as hard to win kids over any more and I owe that to David Blaine.

So in my book, Blaine is at least a good magician.

What he does isn't 'real' street magic though :)

Best,

Dan-
Message: Posted by: SpiffnikHopkins (Nov 23, 2002 06:35PM)
before we talk about how he misrepresents the "magic community" let us remember he is a part of that community. How can he misrepresent himself? I think he's great! A very unique approch to magic. Isn't htat what we're all try'n to do?


~Spiff
Message: Posted by: Mister Hyde (Nov 24, 2002 12:53AM)
I really dig his style..the man is smooooth
Message: Posted by: KingStardog (Nov 25, 2002 10:19AM)
[quote]
On 2002-11-22 23:59, Peter Marucci wrote:
BTW, King, I've heard the term "guerrilla magic" for years now; so, unless you're about my age, I doubt that you coined the phrase, although you may have come up with it independently.
And, anyway, it's spelled with TWO "r"s.
:nod:
[/quote]


Independantly for sure Peter,

I had no idea this was a common term for the behavior.

However, being a faily old naming convention, shouldn't the Café have a forum for representation? Some people like hit and run magic.
Message: Posted by: Magicbarry (Nov 25, 2002 04:05PM)
[quote]
On 2002-11-22 15:28, Magicman01462 wrote:
I find it hilarious that you people can even recognize this man, he wrote a book, with the exception of a few, i'm sure none of you have put the time and effort into writing one,
[/quote]

Some good points in your post, but it should be clarified that David Blaine did not write the book, at least not on his own. Larry Sloman was the ghost writer. Basically, Blaine provided the material, and Sloman did the actual writing. It's still quite a bit of work for Blaine, but not nearly as onerous a task as actually doing the writing.
Message: Posted by: Jim Morton (Nov 26, 2002 04:15PM)
[quote]
On 2002-11-22 12:05, KingStardog wrote:
Say it: Guerilla Magic (its new) and I coined the phrase. You heard it here first.
[/quote]

Actually, no. Greg Wilson uses the term on his On the Spot videos. I don't think it's original with him either. Sorry.

Jim
Message: Posted by: Spade (Nov 28, 2002 02:27PM)
David Blaine may not be a "steet magician" but as some of you have said, he has his own style and that's what we strive for. If it was not for his show, I would have not pursued magic as aggresively as I have. Over the years the search for "magic answers" was not successful and sadly I thought magic was dying (Magic will never die, but I was quite young then), therefore my pursuit had diminished. With his show he sparked the flame again and brought upon a keener interest to a wider group of audience and for that he did an excellent job. So all in all, I say good job David.
Message: Posted by: Michael Graves (Dec 19, 2002 03:33PM)
David Blaine...

People don't like his style because he is up front and in your face.

I will keep this short. David Blaine does something that not many magicians do. He does not take away from the magic.

Jokes are fine, but are you a joke man or a magician?

I do not envy David Blaine. I enjoy his work and as you know people tend to point out, "What a bad double," or, "Ewww he did not do that right." Well look at your own work and stop criticizing his. Spend your time being envious or spend your time learning. I will take the latter

Michael Graves :spinningcoin:
Message: Posted by: nitram (Dec 23, 2002 04:42AM)
I always remember this: "People don't mind you getting ahead, just as long as it is not ahead of them !"

This man has made Magic "fashionable" again and is the benefit to all. Here in the UK a Double Glazing (window) company was given bad press by a BBC Watchdog programme. The following year that company trebled its profits. The public had become more aware and had this on their minds. I am sure that every "street" magician has benefited from this renewed interest in magic.

Regards Nitram UK

:spinningcoin:
Message: Posted by: DoctorAmazo (Dec 23, 2002 06:38AM)
[quote]
On 2002-11-22 12:05, KingStardog wrote:
Say it: Guerilla Magic (it's new) and I coined the phrase. You heard it here first.
[/quote]
I hate to burst your bubble, but the term has been around a LONG time. Lance Burton is preparing a TV special with that name. Perhaps he read your post, then went back in time?

It's not even new to this forum. steve_sequin used it back in March (look in "Sidewalk Shuffle Terminology"). You (KSD) posted in that very thread. Maybe you "coined it" after reading his post. Steve managed to spell it correctly, btw.

That was about the time *I* invented the Cups and Balls, I think... :lol:
Message: Posted by: KingStardog (Dec 23, 2002 10:42AM)
And I had retracted above, now you are the guilty one.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Dec 24, 2002 04:30AM)
David Blaine does have an odd character. That is what help him get popular. He used a different style. Remember when rap songs came out. Most people hated it. Now it made a lot of people popular. There are an unlimited amount of styles in this world. Don't copy or blame anyone else. Put more time into finding out what will make you popular before someone else takes that position.
Message: Posted by: Peter Marucci (Dec 24, 2002 04:59AM)
I have absolutely no doubt King StarDog came up with the term "guerrilla magic" on his own.
So what if it's been around and in use for years?
Why jump all over somebody for independently coming up with something that is new, at least to them?
This happens all the time in magic; thus the endless navel-gazing over who is credited with what.
Why bother?
To come up with something on your own, even if it has appeared elsewhere, is still showing real creative work.
Let's encourage that sort of thing!
:righton:
Message: Posted by: Ronnie Ramin (Dec 24, 2002 07:10AM)
Coming up with something that is unknown to you yet has already been done is a very common thing. When bright people put their time and creativity into thinking about a certain subject it has to happen.
Ronnie
Message: Posted by: Pakar Ilusi (Dec 25, 2002 05:36PM)
"Guerrila","Gorrila","Street","Shock"....!

Call it what you want but David Blaine is still way cool in my book!

Just my theory, DB may be referred to as a "Street Magician" due to his "NYC Street Culture" persona, not his Magic approach. If you don't know what "NYC Street Culture" is, look at rap stars. If you don't like rap stars, then I know exactly why you wouldn't find DB cool!

Well, to each his own.
Message: Posted by: Vinnie Anderson (Dec 26, 2002 10:21PM)
If DB is not a "street magician" then why are we discussing this in the "street magic" forum? You know what? The guy is a magician, good, bad or indifferent. He performs magic, on the streets and off, I will never have a television special of my own. I'm happy for him and his success, but I don't feel we need to carry this on, and on and on and on. This is a "street magic" forum, full of posts about DB, who everyone says is not a street magician. Can we move this somewhere else?
the other vinny

One last parting shot before I leave this discussion: Always remember when I say
"look at you" I am really saying "don't look at me."

:bikes: :bluebikes:
Message: Posted by: joseph (Dec 28, 2002 06:47AM)
I think monkeying around with guerilla magic originated in the Banana Republic. Some day I hope to swing by there. :shrug:
Message: Posted by: Peter Marucci (Dec 28, 2002 04:37PM)
Pakar Ilusi says: ". . . , DB may be referred to as a "Street Magician" due to his "NYC Street Culture" persona . . . "

He can be referred to any way you want; that still doesn't make him a street magician!

If your cat has kittens in the garage, that doesn't make them cars!
Message: Posted by: Kozmo (Dec 28, 2002 09:51PM)
vinnie...i wish i would never hear about that guy here again....i'm sick of him....really....but the kiddies insist on talking about him...the "new" guys...

koz
Message: Posted by: Scott F. Guinn (Dec 29, 2002 05:11AM)
So here's what it boils down to:

Some of us really like Blaine and some of us don't. In the end, it doesn't much matter. What matters is, do YOUR audiences like YOU? That is up to you--that is your responsibility to the art. You are certainly entitled to your opinion about DB, but you should be MUCH more concerned with your audiences' opinion of YOU! Criticizing/defending Blaine won't help with THAT!
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Dec 29, 2002 05:20AM)
I'm on Scott's side.

Hey Scott, Why are those members critizing Dave Blaine?
Message: Posted by: Scott F. Guinn (Dec 29, 2002 04:25PM)
I personally do not care for him myself. However, he is certainly successful in what he does. If I don't want to watch him, I can turn the channel or turn off the TV.

I think it is wrong to emulate him, as his "style" probably wouldn't work for most, just as most comedians would bomb emulating Don Rickles.

Having said that, I think it equally wrong to bash him because you don't like him or agree with him, particularly when he is not here to defend himself.

I am sure that for every performer at the Magic Café, there would be those who, upon seeing him perform, would dislike him, as well as those who would like him. But in the end, as I said, it just doesn't matter. Do your audiences like you? That's what's important!
Message: Posted by: Pakar Ilusi (Dec 29, 2002 04:47PM)
I agree with you Scott!

Btw, Peter, what about the fact that DB performs on the streets? It's just for TV, that's all!
Well technically, not on the streets, more like the sidewalk! ;)
Message: Posted by: BenSchwartz (Dec 30, 2002 02:15AM)
I agree with both Peter and Scott. as for another thing.... lol

from another post, "David Blaine...

People don't like his style because he is up front and in your face.

I will keep this short. David Blaine does something that not many magicians do. He does not take away from the magic.

Jokes are fine, but are you a joke man or a magician? "

1. I don't like his style because I just don't like it lol...so stop putting words in everyones mouths

2. I make jokes because its how I entertain.. magician or joke man? duh. get a life. I can see that your audiences aren't laughing and having a good time when you perform. Man.

3. Think before you speak
Message: Posted by: Danny Hustle (Dec 30, 2002 07:55AM)
Great points Scott!

Personally, I would rather watch paint dry than watch Blaine, but I’m a magician. His show is not geared to ‘me’.

He does however appeal to the majority of his chosen demographic. THEY think he is a good magician and that is what really counts when it comes down to brass tacks. He has also improved MY bottom line financially and I do a comedy magic show. I am nothing like Blaine. I have also heard very little negative feed back from laypeople about Blaine. Most laypeople found his special impressive.

He has not embarrassed me with the public, he has improved my client list, and he has been keeping the public interested in magic for several years now. What more should I expect from a ‘brother’ magician?

I can name 100 guys who can do flawless, heavy-handed technical work, and none of them has ever made my phone ring when they’ve been on TV.

Who cares what I think of Blaine’s double lift or whatever. The guy has been good for my business. I’d buy him dinner any day of the week for that.

Best,

Dan-

But, he is not a 'street magician' :)
Message: Posted by: 0pus (Dec 30, 2002 08:21AM)
Without even discussing Blaine's skills as a magician, I think we should all recognize that his "Street Magic" was a watershed event in bringing close up magic to television. Consider televised magic before Blaine. It was generally stage and parlor/nightclub illusions, with a strong bias toward grand illusion. Why? Because it is colorful and visually exciting -- absolute musts for television.

Of course, there were pre-Blaine attempts at televising close up magic. I remember Slydini on the Ed Sullivan Show and on The Tonight Show, but these segments were almost as static as the "talking head" newscast. And the attempts at close up in the World's Greatest Magic shows seemed stilted and staged. They just weren't convincing to viewers.

In fact, today I think that most laypersons think that magic is in some gimmicked device (a fallout of the prevalence of grand illusion and magic boxes on TV). And note that for those illusions, the laypersons' perception is right -- the "trick" IS in the box.

What Blaine managed to do is bring the immediacy of close up magic (which we all love) to television. How does he do this? The TV programs focus on the audience and their reactions (this is probably why Blaine adopts a more passive role -- the television viewer is able to experience the magic through the non-professional spectators captured on the video tape). I also strongly suspect that the choices of which segments to run in the program are not selected by how well Blaine performed a particular effect, but by how strongly the spectators reacted to it.

Locating the programs on the street was NOT to show that Blaine was a street performer. Rather, it was to create the impression that the spectators were not actors (as they were in WGM) and that there was no "funny business" with the cameras. I think that this appraoch was extremely effective for laypersons.

Please understand that I do not mean to denigrate the skills of stage and platform performers, or, for that matter, the close up performances on WGM, nor do I believe that there was no camera trickery in the Blaine programs. And I do not necessarily think that Blaine is the most skillful magician I have ever seen. But he has created new interest in a form of magic that most laypersons have never seen, and perhaps has opened up new horizons for performers.

So, is it any wonder the "new kids on the block" want to emulate Blaine? He is performing close up magic in a way that many of those new kids had never seen before. I would suggest that Blaine is likely responsible for many more newcomers to magic than all of those "teach-a-trick" segments on all other magic programs combined.
Message: Posted by: ixnay66 (Dec 30, 2002 09:45AM)
Blaine is a master of self promotion. He got his TV gig before he even had material. I have an aquaintence that was hired for his first special to teach him tricks for the show and they had to be simple enough for Blaine to do. But hey, the guy has millions and I don't even own my own house. He's doing SOMETHING right.