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Topic: Female magicians
Message: Posted by: NeoMagic (Mar 6, 2006 05:03PM)
Hi Sue-Anne... for a time it seems female magicians took a veritable back seat to their male counterparts. Of course, things have changed in recent years, yet the majority of products and DVDs etc. one sees on the market are still largely promoting male performers. I've personally yet to see a female magician having her own TV show for example. Do you think the magical arts are still largely male dominated and what inroads do you think female magicians are making in terms of getting the recognition they deserve?
Message: Posted by: Sue-Anne Webster (Mar 6, 2006 09:04PM)
Yes, the magical arts are still male dominated. It's natural though, for many reasons.

It's clear that females dominate the occult - just look at the psychics out there. They tend to be drawn to spiritual deception far more than men - which is logical, considering the way we're made up.

The magical arts on the other hand attracts the men, in general. I only have to look at Tim to understand why - playing away in the studio thinking of nothing but magic, magic, magic. The long hours he spends on forums, making up new ways to trick people, figuring out the next way he's going to get people together to session or meet at a convention or get together to do a world's longest magic show, reading the mile high books he orders on magic - and, I don't get a look in on Magic Magazine until it's dog eared pages are left on the bathroom bench. Now, I'm a bit of a tomboy - but, we've gotta eat!

"Obsessed" is a good word for men in magic? :) I'm only generalising - and I have the utmost respect for the magical arts and try to do it justice the best possible way I can.

It's a BIG topic as to why there are only a few women in the magical arts... and I can only poke a stick at a few reasons - inconvenience is one (irratic income - magic is only really effective when viewed live - women want to have children, so it can take a whopping big slice out of our welfare). Since it's been male dominated, I believe women are still experimenting with their own effective ways of presenting magic.

I'd REALLY, REALLY love to hear HONEST views from men - straight talk - on THEIR views of women in magic. You won't offend me - I'm after opinions. We can't get anywhere unless men tell us how they view us.

Females deserve what they get. If they grab magic by the horns and wrestle with it, enjoy it, be creative with it, do what the guys do and bring their own slant to the art, then we could be in for a real treat. No-one has a problem with girls in the Harry Potter books doing magic - as I don't believe audiences have a problem with girls doing magic tricks.

In-roads? I see and hear ladies getting out there practising what they love and finding their own gigs because it's easier to do so now-a-days. It would go well for women to grow a thicker skin against the way some men speak in such a male dominated area (women are sensitive creatures). Women are experimenting with delivery style and trying to understand public attitude towards them. The girls are starting to talk amongst themselves, now... which is a good thing. They're finding unique ways to hide a thumb tip with no sleeves and pull a dove out of an evening dress, for example - very innovative! So, with the way television is these days - although it's hard (Australia in particular) to get anything on TV - executives are WANTING more females to appeal to the social equity standards of today, maybe a TV show for a female magician is not too far away.

For me - I love magic. I'm aware that men like looking at women. I'm aware how that can irritate their partners. I'm aware that men don't give a hoot whether you can do magic or not if you're distracting them with things other than magic. So, apart from making sure I don't expose the magic I'm performing, I try to take into consideration my attitude when I'm working, try to be sensitive and honest with myself and others in how I come across to people, the way I dress and how it affects who's watching and making sure it doesn't distract from my personality and the magic. My aim is to get attention (being female can be an asset), then to use it to blow them away with the magic. My aim is when they look in my eyes, I see respect for who I am and what I can do, rather than what I look like (don't get me wrong, I don't think I look great - it's just men are men, you know?!)

The men in magic have been absoluety fabulous with me. I've said to the girls that not one man has ever made me feel anything less than equal. If I feel I don't have their attention - it's just up to me to impress them by being better at what I do.
Message: Posted by: EsnRedshirt (Mar 6, 2006 10:01PM)
I'm sure it's a bit different with male magicians, because they know how it's done, but I can see how being female would be a disadvantage for a magician. Many men, to put it bluntly, are arrogant, and don't like being tricked or outsmarted. Since there's inherent trickery in magic, they may feel threatened by female magicians (yeah, the infamous male ego, can't be 'beaten' by a girl)- so I would assume it takes a very careful balance to be a female magician without threatening your audience too much.

Of course, I could be way off here, Sue-Anne, since, like I said, I'm a magician, and not quite a 'typical' male. I'd personally like to see more women in magic ;)
Message: Posted by: Sue-Anne Webster (Mar 6, 2006 11:05PM)
I totally agree. You hit the nail on the head when you said that men (in general) don't like to be outsmarted by a woman. It is right that we need to find a balance so we are non-threatening. That's why the actual entertaining is so important.
Message: Posted by: Sue-Anne Webster (Mar 6, 2006 11:54PM)
I've been thinking about how men and women react to me as a woman, entertaining them - showing them tricks.

This is just my style - but, it works.

When I talk to the ladies - sometimes I tend to chat first, ease my way into their group for acceptance. I tend to pay interest in them, in who they are, giving them time and respect (this is all done fairly quickly) - then ease into the magic - show 'em a few really 'cool' things and sometimes get THEM to do the magic - it empowers them, in a way - putting THEM in the limelight. In so doing, they put the focus back on me (it's a girl thing, I think - sharing, caring, etc). They like that.

If men are in the group - at no time do I ever carry on with silly talk (naughty talk - hmm - sex kind of talk). I don't want to pull focus in that direction - which earns me more respect from the women - and so with the men.

It's great having a wedding band on my finger. When I'm with a group of men and they know I'm taken, my job's easier (it's easier with the women, too). Men are willing to listen to me and be entertained when I treat them well and respectfully. When I can establish a rapport with them - a sort of "mateship" (Aussie lingo for pal, friend) - they might see me as a colleague - maybe a sister of sorts, or someone with whom they share some sort of common interest - so the focus is on what I'm doing. I normally get into the magic faster for men than the women. If their minds are on "one thing", I just use it to my advantage taking their interest and turning it to my advantage, getting them to watch what I do - they're usually willing to play - and then the magic speaks for itself.

When a guy sees something pretty cool (magic wise), they'll eat out of your hand. They're minds are now focussed on the magic - then they want to see another trick. They become SO willing to watch, and SO want to tell their friends about it. I love doing Tim's "Deckstress" leaving them with something. They'll show they're "mates" and want to see it again to see if I can actually do it again for their friends. Men get very impressed when a woman can show them something really "cool" as opposed to "fool".
Message: Posted by: Chrystal (Mar 7, 2006 02:32AM)
Hi SueAnne,

Well said and you've expressed opinions which most woman whom perform magic seriously feel. I've heard nothing but good reviews concerning your shows and lectures. Perhaps, I also have a thick skin or oblivious to what the old boys club thinks. I've often repeated myself here at the Café by saying I haven't come across any problems either. Keep up the great work and I'm just sorry I was out of town when you and Tim lectured on the West Coast of Canada. I was told it was a fantastic lecture. Perhaps next time!

All the best
Chrystal
Message: Posted by: Sue-Anne Webster (Mar 7, 2006 02:41AM)
Hey Chrystal - good to hear from you!!

Brendan just asked the guys to write in telling what they think of women in magic. I requested no politicaaly correct responses. It's under the "Female Magi" thread. So, hopefully, we'll be bombarded with honest responses!
Message: Posted by: Matt Pulsar (Mar 7, 2006 04:48AM)
My favorite response to the question as to why there are not more female magicians is: "Men get into magic to understand deception, women already have that innately, why would they be interested."

Of course this is a humor, but there is always a kernel of something real in a joke. There is something about getting one over on people that is draws people to magic. More men seem to be interested in this than women. I can only guess why from what I have seen. What are we showing others when we perform magic? We show them we have power. Power to deceive, Power to manipulate our surroundings, power to control the audience, power over the elements, power over others minds; but power in some way every time. Even if the plot of the show is that the magical object is getting one over on the performer, ala Cardini, it still is a display of the objects power and the magicians skill to give it life.

My general observation is that women don't go for power the way men do. Not that they don't at all, just in a different way. Women have allot of power that is subtle. Women have an amazing amount of control over men. And I agree that we don't want to be fooled by a woman. We want to know. We want to be the ideal we have grown up striving toward, and this can throw a wrench in what we know. In many ways I simply believe it is harder for a woman to do magic. There are so many things about humanity to take into consideration. But by the same token I have seen very few female magicians I was blown away by. Statistically that makes since. Less female magicians means less good female magicians. So I would take that observation with a grain of salt

Men also seem to become obsessed, as Sue-Anne Webster was saying, to such a degree that we spend all our time with the subject. I only know one woman who is as obsessed with magic as male magicians usually are. Among male magicians there is also allot yard stick comparison. It is a lead dog mentality, which is innately animal, and a woman trying to take place in that is just difficult. For both of us.

Then there are some simple things. Thousands of men who are into magic will watch a video, learn a few tricks and go out there and perform them. If the trick was written by a man, as most on video are, then it will be easy for the guy to get by with the routine he takes directly, the jokes, etc. He doesn't have to work as hard to make it his. He should, but many don't. A woman can't just present the trick in the same way. There are too many things to consider. The fact that she isn't wearing a suit coat is just the beginning. I think this is why many times look wrong for some reason. The person, male or female, haven't learned how to perform it as themselves. I wonder if there will be a time with more female magicians out there. I am very curious as to where you all will agree and disagree with these observations.
Message: Posted by: Sue-Anne Webster (Mar 7, 2006 07:10AM)
Stuart - your observations are eloquently put. And, I agree.

It's so true women have innate deception - which is an advantage. if cleverly plied, to get the men to watch what she's doing and believe she can perform little miracles which cannot be done in the same way as a man (the basics can be the same - the delivery may need to be different). Doing things the same way will rarely work - we come from different planets. Ok, we don't come from different planets - I got carried away remembering I'm married to Tim. But it's true - we do think differently because we are different. We can never really do magic the same way as a man - and I don't think there'll ever be as many females in the profession, ever, for the same reasons (and more) as Stuart expressed.
Message: Posted by: JordanMalfreed (Mar 7, 2006 10:37AM)
Sue-Anne,

You wrote, "It's clear that females dominate the occult - just look at the psychics out there. They tend to be drawn to spiritual deception far more than men - which is logical, considering the way we're made up."

I'm wondering why you are assuming that people who have a different worldview than you are engaged in deception. Also, why is it that you believe your worldview is correct rather than theirs?

By the way, I don't think that magic or performing magic is necessarily about power at all. I'll agree that lots of people come to it for reasons related to power, but that is not what magic is inherently about. I actually find it sad that so many people don't see the other wonderful possibilities in magic, because they are fixated on their own power issues.

Following the protocols,
Jordan
Message: Posted by: Edith (Mar 7, 2006 11:12AM)
[quote]
On 2006-03-07 05:48, StuartPalm wrote:

Then there are some simple things. Thousands of men who are into magic will watch a video, learn a few tricks and go out there and perform them. If the trick was written by a man, as most on video are, then it will be easy for the guy to get by with the routine he takes directly, the jokes, etc. He doesn't have to work as hard to make it his. He should, but many don't.

A woman can't just present the trick in the same way.

There are too many things to consider. The fact that she isn't wearing a suit coat is just the beginning. I think this is why many times look wrong for some reason. The person, male or female, haven't learned how to perform it as themselves. I wonder if there will be a time with more female magicians out there. I am very curious as to where you all will agree and disagree with these observations.
[/quote]

This can be an advantage too. Males can copy tricks more easily and end up with something not so good that doesn't fit whereas when women buy a new trick they really have to make up a new presentation and therefor have a better effect right away.

So men are more at risk doing the same thing over and over again or just taking the trick out of the box with no original thought put into it. They may be more tempted to do that and women are not.
Message: Posted by: Sue-Anne Webster (Mar 7, 2006 04:40PM)
I wasn't aware that I was expressing a world view about anything under this thread and that my world view was correct or not... however, I think I'll express something like that under the "fraudulent practices" thread. Rather, I think we were trying to express what we know to be true of most females and males without having the university qualifications to express the thoughts in scientific language which would make for a whole thesis. In fact, I think someone has actually done that on this topic, come to think of it.

Power - I got into magic because I love things magical. I love the entertainment of it, I love the delight the audience gets when they watch it. I know that's not the same for everybody.
Message: Posted by: JordanMalfreed (Mar 7, 2006 04:43PM)
Sue-Anne,

I was referring to the worldview you seem to be expressing that people who do readings are engaged in deception.

I'll look at the other thread too.

Following the protocols,
Jordan
Message: Posted by: Chrystal (Mar 7, 2006 09:26PM)
Hi ,

Having personally viewed many youths performing at conventions, I was thrilled that the last one I attended had equal numbers of girls competing as boys recently. :I think times are a changing", and we'll see an increase in numbers. Janis Joplin changed the views back in the 70's when she became the first female rocker and now it's common place, although considered rare in that era. Even at the Café there is quite a few female members, but most choose to not post avatars or decide not to specify gender in their names. I've always thought within 20 years (my own personal view) that the number while not totally equal will be another place where's it's not considered unusual either.

Chrystal
Message: Posted by: Matt Pulsar (Mar 8, 2006 01:42AM)
In response to Jordan. The allure of magic for many people is very similar to the allure of a super hero. This is what I mean about power. A magician shows that he has power over things. And he does. He, or She, :), practices very specific things until they have complete control over them. So does a juggler, or a dancer, or a gymnast. These people have power the audience does not. Performers know that the power we have will completely disengage the audience and take them to a place where they wish they could stay. A place where more things are possible. Look at the terms many use: "I fried them," "He killed them;" why is this how we describe a good performance?

I do not think magic is inherently about power. I think magic is inherently about magic. But there are a lot of power issues that bring people to magic. I think preserving the mystery, and giving mystery is more along the lines to what magic is about. Mystification.

On the other topic, just my two cents. If you know some psychics who aren't deceiving someone, perhaps themselves, I would love to meet them. It would be great if they exist. But I generally have the same response to psychics I have seen or sat with that I do real monte throwers I have watched. The effect is crude and they would need more study and practice to do well in our business. Once there was a guy who came into the bar I used to work at dressed as a siek, who did some amazing cold reading and swami work. He had been practicing and was as close to psychic as I have ever seen.

Sorry to get off topic. And now back to "female Magicians"

P.S. Jordan, What are the protocols you are following?
Message: Posted by: Tim Ellis (Mar 8, 2006 02:20AM)
JORDAN: I think it's very funny that though magicians are thrilled when they get off stage to be able to say "I killed them!" they hate it if someone's been there first. "They were dead!"
Message: Posted by: JordanMalfreed (Mar 8, 2006 10:57AM)
StuartPalm,

Since you asked, let me give you some examples of some people who are not engaged in deception, but who use the tools of what you are referring to as psychic.

Some people believe that using a chance means such as tarot, for example, to view their world differently for a bit and to find perspectives that perhaps they didn't or wouldn't think of themselves to be a useful way to look at the world.

There are also those who believe for example that their use of the tarot is genuinely psychic. It is their view and belief, and if perhaps you believe they are deluding themselves, that does not make it true. Certainly it can as easily be said that you, Tim, and Sue-Anne are deluding yourselves as well. I'm not saying you are deluding yourselves, but merely pointing out that people can have different views and that we should have respect for other people's views. Have you ever thought you were right about something and that another person was wrong only to find later that the reverse was true? I'd say that most everyone has.

By the way not everyone who performs magic describes a great performance as "killing" and even when they do, it is not necessarily meant as a power related statement. If you look into the origins of the expression for example, you'll see that comics use the expression to describe how the audience was affected by their laughter such as falling out of their chairs, holding their sides from pain from laughing so hard, etc.

The protocols signature is in reference to Max's book as well as other things.

Folllowing the protocols,
Jordan
Message: Posted by: Tim Ellis (Mar 8, 2006 04:50PM)
Jordan raises an interesting point - many do believe the Tarot is genuinely psychic and, though Sue-Anne and I as magicians are aware of fraud and sleight of hand often being used in conjunction with such artifices, we are also aware that there is a very real aspect to the occult. The Bible tells us to avoid fortune telling and spirits, and it wouldn't warn us of such things if there wasn't a very real danger. If you're interested in a discussion of this topic Jordan, start a new thread and we'll be happy to chat with you.

Meanwhile - BACK TO FEMALE MAGICIANS!
Message: Posted by: IT Magic (Mar 8, 2006 06:16PM)
"The protocols signature is in reference to Max's book as well as other things."

Hmm Max's book, now there is a topic, though I'm not sure how you could apply it to living life, the other things I will ignore as "the protocols" as a term has a well defined reputation and generally only used nowdays to either offend, denegrate or self promote.
Sorry to rant off topic but hey, I'm a passion filled guy.

Now back to female magicians.

Sue-Anne, without being sucky, you are a very attractive lady and I wondered if you find this distracting to male audiences (single minded creatures that we are) and without being flirty or cheap, do you ever use their preoccupation to your advantage as extra mis-direction.

Brendan

PS Hopefully a serious question makes up for my ranting.
Message: Posted by: JordanMalfreed (Mar 8, 2006 09:03PM)
Tim,

Thank you for your response. You may start a new topic if you wish you wish. I was merely replying due to the concerns that I have for what you and your partner were stating, because the comments were quite bothersome.

I understand that you are following your own beliefs, and as should be obvious from my comments that I have no problem with that...I wish more people would follow their own beliefs. I think it would be nice if you and your partner would not make such negative remarks and engage in such negative stereotyping of people who practice different beliefs than you. That's really what I wish to express.

I believe that the smile you send out returns to you.

Be well.

Following the protocols,
Jordan
Message: Posted by: JordanMalfreed (Mar 8, 2006 09:05PM)
Brendan,

You wrote:
"the protocols" as a term has a well defined reputation and generally only used nowdays to either offend, denegrate or self promote.

I am not working to offend, denegrate, or self promote. I think you must be thinking of some other sort of protocols rather than the ones that I follow.

By the way, one of my favorite protocols is AppleTalk, but it just doesn't scale well unfortunately.

Following the protocols,
Jordan
Message: Posted by: Sue-Anne Webster (Mar 9, 2006 12:04AM)
Oh, Brendan - are you not aware of the magic of make-up?

:)

Thankyou for your kind words... and innocently loaded :)

OK...

Honestly, I have never been aware at how I might come across before. It was only a little while ago when words spoken buy someone (with whom I trust with the welfare of my soul) convinced me that I could get people's attention. It came when I was in a depressed state and thought I couldn't entertain for nuts - that no-one would want to really watch what I do. I tried to see what this person meant - so I tried a few things.

I guess being a bit of a tomboy - hanging out with the boys when I was younger, caving, rockclimbing, hiking, I thought I was just another boy to them (guys) and never thought I was attractive at all.

Anyway - I've tried to think of myself as a 'girl' now, and accepting boys being boys - humoured myself that it maybe it could be possible that I might be able to draw attention. So yeah - for a couple of months, now - I've used that subtle 'power' thing that stuart was alluding to. And, it works! So, yes, I use it :)
Message: Posted by: Sue-Anne Webster (Mar 9, 2006 12:05AM)
Oh - and this is what I meant when I said that girls can have an advantage in magic if they use what they've got, properly.
Message: Posted by: IT Magic (Mar 9, 2006 12:46AM)
Jordan, guess you you know why TCP was such a hit then huh. I do have a particularly vitriolic response to use of the term and still think any use such as in a sig is provocative, but I'm sensitive and delicate.

Sue-Anne - My kind words were not meant to be loaded, and perhaps you are right about my make up knowledge, I met my wife when we were both avid rock climbers (another tom boy)and she wears makeup maybe half a dozen times a year.

And if I say you're attractive then you damm well are and don't argue with me. *g* Ask Tim, he'll back me on this one. ;)

As for using what you got, I wish I had big muscles or something to distract the ladies and perhaps a beer keg on my back for the guys.
Message: Posted by: Sue-Anne Webster (Mar 9, 2006 01:02AM)
I'm sure you don't need big muscles and a keg! :)
Message: Posted by: Tim Ellis (Mar 9, 2006 01:34AM)
Yep Brendan, I'll back you up, she's attractive alright!
Message: Posted by: IT Magic (Mar 9, 2006 09:04PM)
Hey Sue-Anne,
nah nah nanah nah :nana:
Told you so
Message: Posted by: Matt Pulsar (Mar 10, 2006 04:25AM)
Wow, this is going strange places. Ok so to sum things up. Women have some powers over men. Sue-Anne is Gorgeous. Tim Agrees. something about Max and protocols that I don't understand. We should respect Tarot (I have no problem with that.) People use deception (we have go to accept that.) Women are different than men. We entertain and perform magic differently.

Specifically to Jordan: I get where you are going, and I do respect the fact that many people use such things as Tarot, I-Ching, etc... To give themselves a different perspective on their lives. I truely respect that and would not want to downplay this practice. HOWEVER, I do not call these practices truely psychic. Or these people truely psychic. And I will state agiain that I would be very happy to find someone who IS truely psychic. And as far as I have found the closest to psychic out there are performers who undrestand how to work the room well.

It is true however that there are many people in the world of the Occult who pray on the uninformed. They use ignorance and many methods we use to keep people coming back and spending more, diluting them with nonsense. This IS Deception. Any psychic fair is full of it. Aside from that I know I should ignore your comment as I am only breeding rebuttle. BUT, (sorry everyone,) I need to ask why you feel the need to negate everything I say. The responce to the idea of "killing the audience," for example. Yes comics use it too. Yes not everyone uses these expressions. But it seems that you find the intrest in power to be a negative. There are, as in all things, negative aspects to seeking power. But, I state this as an observation of something natural. As a performer I love the power I feel, the love I feel the feeling of 'in the moment' I get from being on stage. I don't think it is wrong. It just is. It makes me feel great. A great show is one of the best feelings in the world. And none of us will get anywhere without a little self promotion. That is all. There is power and you can't deny it. I never said I thought it was wrong. I made the observation to point out the reasons people get into this stuff to begin with. Lets be honest here.

AND back to the topic:
Message: Posted by: magicalaurie (Mar 10, 2006 09:14AM)
I'd say men are men, women are women, and magicians are magicians- usually male or female. :)
Message: Posted by: Sue-Anne Webster (Mar 12, 2006 12:29AM)
I've been thinking things over this last week... and Chrystal may have a point with the numbers increasing significantly over the next 20 years. Maybe sooner.

We have an active magic shop in Australia - Tammii Twister's Magic Factory - where the owners are encouraging children, many of whom are girls, to perform magic. I don't know where it's going to take them, eventually - but the boys are growing up with the girls thinking that girls involved in magic is a natural thing. They're sessioning with them like it's a perfectly normal thing to do.

A magician I was chatting to, today reckoned that females are far more prone to get out there and do the entertaining. He's observed that the majority of men might be EXCELLENT at practising - but so many are not willing to perform. Considering the NUMBERS of men doing magic - it's not for lack of work that they're not out performing. Men just LOVE to practise - a bit like women doing things they like, like sewing or painting/drawing or doing crafty things in their spare time. He reckons it's only a matter of time when females are encouraged into magic practise as their thing to do in their spare time. But, he reckons that they are MORE LIKELY to get out and perform.

Interesting. It could be like any of the arts, once they start - like singing and acting where LOADS of females have infiltrated those performance areas - whereas once there weren't.

Gotta tell you... at this magic shop - the owners of the Magic Café attached have a little girl, 3 years old. She assists her uncle in magic classes - then takes over when a customer comes in the shop and her uncle has to leave the class. VERY funny. She makes suggestions to thirteen year old boys what and how to perform - and they actually take her seriously and do what she says.

I saw her sessioning with a twelve year old boy today - working on a coin routine. I couldn't believe it - they were both having a ball!! 3 YEARS OLD! It's all so natural :)
Message: Posted by: IT Magic (Mar 12, 2006 12:31AM)
My daughter is 5, maybe I am waiting to long to send her to magic school.
Message: Posted by: Chrystal (Mar 12, 2006 01:19AM)
Hi Again,

A couple years ago I had the opportunity to fill in for a magician friend of mine whom had for many years taught magic at a All Girls Performance Camp/School in NY. There were 350 girls to 150 staff whom were employed from around the world. The girls took subjects like theater, magic, dance, and a host of other activities. I was hired as Director of Magic and taught 6 classes per day, six days per week. Those that were further interested were free to attend the more enhanced classes at the end of the day.
The magic taught were the basics (readily found in any public library book). The girls were encouraged to come up with their own personas and patter and present to the rest of us. Those that showed they were serious and wanted to pursue it further were encouraged to perform at the year end show. It was obvious which ones did and I'm hoping that perhaps in years to come, I'll some day run into them again. My friend returned from his hiatus after his wife gave birth to twins and resumed his position. It was one of the greatest experiences and I'd do it again!

Chrystal
Message: Posted by: MetalBender (Mar 12, 2006 03:10AM)
Keep in mind that I've sort of been a comic for a while now, and that sort of affects my thinking on this subject, but I think my point will be the same.

When I see a working pro I am always delighted because the vast majority of the time the working pro (provided magic is his/her only living) has to be something special to make this their full time ocupation. Whenever I see a woman doing fulltime entertainment I know I am in for a treat. The reason is that women usually have to work much harder to get noticed because the entertainment field is so male dominated. Maybe it's just me, but I also find that women usually have a closer attention to detail than men do. Sure we with the Y chromosome tend to get fixated on something, but our X chromosome counterparts just have a keener eye most of the time.

As for women to watch in Magic there is a woman out in Vegas, I don't remember her name but I think she does close-up at the Belagio. She did the anything deck, and completely floored me. Also Angela Funovits has made a few waves of her own. Is it just me, or do women have a much softer touch with a deck of cards? I've only seen one woman who was rough with the cards, and let's put it this way, she was a rather rough woman herself. I didn't realize how much metal you could get into a persons face. Of course she wasn't a pro, so I'll give her time.
Message: Posted by: magicalaurie (Mar 12, 2006 07:40AM)
[quote]
On 2006-03-12 01:29, Sue-Anne Webster wrote:
but the boys are growing up with the girls thinking that girls involved in magic is a natural thing. They're sessioning with them like it's a perfectly normal thing to do.
[/quote]

These type of comments are what get me on "female magician" threads. The implication that a female magician is some kind of phenomenon. The shock and awe that a BOY might think a female magician is natural and normal. Female magicians themselves perpetuate stereotyping and defeat their own cause much of the time.
Message: Posted by: Sue-Anne Webster (Mar 12, 2006 06:47PM)
There's no "shock and awe" magiclaurie - only observations. History has shown clearly why females are stereotyped as assistants. It's also clear that as time moves on and access becomes easier for both male and female in this area of the arts, that it'll be perfectly natural that females will come to be more prominant in the magical arts.

Belinda Sinclaire from New York is a lady making some great moves in more than just the performance of magic. I'll leave her projects to unfold, but they are of great benefit to magicians and the public. There are other ladies doing some exciting work in magic, not just the performance side - which are great indications of a more solid foundation for females to use and be inspired to move ahead and do great work.

Exciting times ahead.
Message: Posted by: Elly May Drudge (Mar 12, 2006 07:25PM)
Back in my day - I didn't see any magic. I only saw half naked girls in glittery dresses alongside men in top hats that were strangely out of date.
Message: Posted by: Parson Smith (Mar 12, 2006 07:34PM)
Elly May,
I wish that you would be a "Guest of Honor" here.
We could use a bit of good, christian, charitable thinking around here.
Peace,
Parson