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Topic: Straitjacket records
Message: Posted by: Roslyn (Apr 2, 2006 11:21AM)
Hi all,

Just been doing a little searching on the web for sj world records.

I found this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straitjacket

I'm a little confused by the way he escaped from an sj underwater faster than doing it on land.

I'm also confused by the fact they say he escaped a posey during his land escape, but just say sj when talking about his underwater escape.

Does anyone know what the sj was that he used in the underwater version? Or have any info/video of him doing it?

Cheers,

Ros
Message: Posted by: Harley Newman (Apr 2, 2006 12:05PM)
I know nothing about these particular claims, however, many of the "records" done for the Guinness televisions programs are total BS.
Message: Posted by: Red Von (Apr 2, 2006 12:07PM)
[quote]
On 2006-04-02 13:05, Harley Newman wrote:
I know nothing about these particular claims, however, many of the "records" done for the Guinness televisions programs are total BS.
[/quote]

Concur! The "Guinness Shows" were completely laughable!
Message: Posted by: Houdini man (Apr 2, 2006 01:07PM)
Anybody can put anything on that wikipedia. I would not trust a word they put up there.
Message: Posted by: DavidEscapes (Apr 2, 2006 02:13PM)
Hi Guys

I have tried long and hard to find video or info about that underwater record. Personally I do not believe a real jacket was used for it.

There are a number of straitjacket records out there, and even the Guinness ones can be suspect. Someone who posts here has recently claimed a record for the SJ of 18 seconds. This has been accepted by record holders republic. I do not beleive this time is possible with a real Posey, properly applied and sized. It is a blatent cheat.

Guinness stopped taking SJ records because they were being faked. I managed to pursuade them to open up the catagory again. If it carries on like this they will close it again.

This week I became the first even forigner to be given a record in Russia. Their equivelant of Guinness flew me over for a ceremony, with trophies, press ect. Footage of the event was even broadcast by NBC & ABC across America, and by the BBC and other channels here. I also have a new Guinness record being confirmed. More on all this later :)

Cheers

David
Message: Posted by: Daniel Santos (Apr 2, 2006 02:21PM)
I heard from MTK yesterday that he broke his eighth record...fastest escape from a straitjacket. Ask him for details. (Unless this is the 18 seconds Mr. Straitjacket spoke of).
Message: Posted by: MattTheKnife (Apr 4, 2006 08:25PM)
[quote]
There are a number of straitjacket records out there, and even the Guinness ones can be suspect. Someone who posts here has recently claimed a record for the SJ of 18 seconds. This has been accepted by record holders republic. I do not beleive this time is possible with a real Posey, properly applied and sized. It is a blatent cheat.
[/quote]


David,

How DARE YOU!

I did beat the record WITHOUT cheating... and I did it in 18.97 seconds. If you don’t believe me, I don’t really care. And if you’d like to see it first hand then by all means pay for my fee to come to the UK and I’d be more than happy to take your challenge on.

My abilities as an EA have been proven time and time again. As is well known, I currently hold the 2 other Guinness records for escapes as well.

And if you think that I’m using a gaffed jacket then I urge you to call up Mark Cannon and ask him if I recently bought the proper one or not. (Which is a Posey Regulation Strait Jacket with friction buckles, side and belly loops that is properly sized.)

It’s unfortunate- I’ve tried very hard to stay out of all of the bickering that can often go on here. I rarely come on and mention my accomplishments because I know that it can make you a target for others even when they justified and make for fun stories. We’ve lost a lot of good friends due to attacks EXACTLY like these and they’ve made me so sour to the café that for the most part I’ve turned from one who posts often to now only occasionally lurking around.

I’m DEEPLY offended by such an allegation. But really all that I have to say to this is the following… David- I’m sorry that me being better than you at this escape has seemed to upset you to the point that you’d call me a cheat.

And another thing… while I’m at it, I’d really appreciate it if you’d finally take down the claims on your site that imply that you STILL hold the world record for the fastest escape from handcuffs – because the last time that I checked, that was mine too. :)

Cheers,
-Matt (TK)

PS- To all of the rest of you that were on the underwater strait jacket topic, I have no idea about any of it and I’ VERY sorry to have had to interject with this post.
Message: Posted by: Ian McColl (Apr 5, 2006 02:32AM)
I saw the performance of the under water strait jacket on TV here as it was G B Australian's records (taped here in Australia) The rules were read out about what the jacket was to comprise of ) but the attempt was made with a jacket that didn't live up to those standards. (no arms loops)

I should have this on tape.

Ian
Message: Posted by: Wolflock (Apr 5, 2006 03:45AM)
In the "immortal" words of Houdini, "If it takes you quick to get out of an ecape, that just means that the Escape was not that impressive anyway."

No offense to the other artists here, but who are you trying to impress? Other Escape Artists, or, your spectators? Other Escape artists would know how difficult or easy it is and therefore applaud, to the layman, a Straitjacket, is a straitjacket, is a straitjacket. Most don't know the difference. I have never had anyone tell me about an impressive escape which only took the performer seconds. They normally tell me about what the performer was bound with. That is important to them.

Just my view.

Regards
Wolflock
Message: Posted by: Kondini (Apr 5, 2006 05:00AM)
Lets take time out and get real!!!
Look at your time pieces and count down 18 seconds.
Now get someone to put you in a SJ (Un gimmed)The correct way.

This now becomes sensible, everything will sink in!!!!

I guess over the years I have used the SJ in many forms as much as the next ea,and from the posts here I would be right out of the running for any kind of a record,,,,,but I couldn't give a *** about records cos they will never pay the rent.

BTW according to Guinness I hold 2!!!!! Having recieved only one certificate I don`t think Im gonna cry over not getting the other.
Self ego is ok,,,,just keep it to yourself.

Ken.
Message: Posted by: mark2004 (Apr 5, 2006 08:48AM)
It seems to me it's almost impossible to have meaningful world records in something like SJ escape. And before anybody leaps to the conclusion that I'm slagging off anyone's work I'm not. I think we can probably all recognise that each of the artists who've listed their various feats here are skilled performers who have admirable achievements to their name. No, the problem is in setting a consistent, objectively measurable challenge.

In fields such as sport they go to immense lengths to ensure that records are set under consistent conditions. There are standards for tracks, apparatus, pools etc. and, for events such as running, the wind has to be within certain limits for a record to count.

To ensure SJ records are comparable to one another you would have to ensure at least the following (and I expect experienced performers can probably come up with more).

(1) Some sort of standard for SJs. I know people sometimes talk as if certain designs were "standards", such as the Posey, but I don't think that's sufficient. For a start people sometimes describe a jacket as a Posey when it's actually a Posey-like jacket. Even if it's a good copy there might be variations in materials or manufacture that make a difference to ease of escape. Even if we're talking about jackets from one manufacturer there will be manufacturing variations from one jacket to another, so you might want to specify certain tolerances. And that's before you even start on the question of how the jacket fits the performer. Obviously artists do not come in standard sizes. The fit of the jacket must surely make a difference to escape difficulty - so how do you ensure each artist has the same amount of space?

(2) Some sort of standard for how the jacket is applied. Obviously you can specify that all the straps are used but is that enough? I'd be willing to bet that even with that proviso a seasoned performer could apply a jacket more effectively than a member of the public or some other non-expert assistant (eg. in ensuring the tension of the straps and preventing the performer from using techniques to obtain slack as they're put into the jacket). So how do you ensure that each performer has the jacket fastened in a way that presents them with a similar challenge to everyone else. All I can think of is that you would have to use some sort of tension gauge on the straps but I can't see how that could be practical.

(3) Some clear definition of when the escape starts and finishes. Do we trust artists not to start any preparatory moves until someone shouts "go" or fires a starting pistol? Do we take the time from the moment when the assistants finish tightening the straps (eg. the point at which the last person lets go of a strap)?
Presumably the escape finishes when the artist throws the jacket clear (ie. the moment artist and jacket are no longer in contact).

(4) (continuing on from my previous point) You need some realistic standards for timing. Is it realistic to measure escapes to 100ths of a second?


I'm not familiar with any requirements that Guinness or whoever might have prescribed. If they've covered these things then maybe that's OK - but, like others here, I'm not completely convinced that any of the records organisations are particularly rigorous with subject areas such as performance arts .

So it looks to be as if we're back to one person's bally against another's...
Message: Posted by: mark2004 (Apr 5, 2006 08:55AM)
BTW, There's an artist called Kerstin Stassburger who seems to be claiming a record of 8.28 seconds. Make of that what you will (see URL below)

http://www.magical-moments.de/magie54.html

My previous comments about difficulty in objective comparison and accuracy of timing still apply.
Message: Posted by: MattTheKnife (Apr 5, 2006 09:12AM)
I’d just like to stress that this isn’t an ego thing- this is an honor and respectability thing. I never came on here and said to anyone that I broke the record. I never posted anything or even alluded to it on the café. I don’t like posting such things because they can often come off as needless bragging. I only posted anything about this because I was called “a blatant cheat” – which I am not.

All of the guidelines that, from what I understand, were set up by David himself with Guinness were followed 100%. And I feel that they are an accurate representation of what should be adhered to. (Mark, bye-the-by, much of what you asked about is actually addressed.)

I did this record (as with nearly all of my records) for business reasons. It very effectively achieved those goals and was therefore a success.

Cheers,
-Matt (TK)

PS- And if Kerstin Stassburger really does have such a time with the same requirements that I had to meet then I say good for him! :) But for me all that I had to do was overcome the record that Guinness and Alternative had in their files which was held by Ben Bradshaw of Australia.
Message: Posted by: DavidEscapes (Apr 5, 2006 09:20AM)
Hi everyone

I am only going to make one reply here, as I don't want to contribute to the troubles. Anything else can happen by PM. That's why I didn't name names in the first place.

Firstly. Everyone is right when they say that speed is not important. It isn't. I would never perform a SJ, handcuff or any other escape like that under normal circumstances, I just occasionally perform world record attempts, usually for charity. But on stage, with a live audience, what's the point!

Mark. I wrote the rules for Guinness's straitjacket escapes, and all the above points are covered. please let me know if you would like a copy.



Matt, To answer your message:

"I did beat the record WITHOUT cheating... and I did it in 18.97 seconds. If you don’t believe me, I don’t really care. And if you’d like to see it first hand then by all means pay for my fee to come to the UK and I’d be more than happy to take your challenge on."

No, I don't believe you! A proper Posey escape, to Guinness standards is simply not possible in that time. You didn't do it. If you did, put the video online for everyone to see.


"And if you think that I’m using a gaffed jacket then I urge you to call up Mark Cannon and ask him if I recently bought the proper one or not. (Which is a Posey Regulation Strait Jacket with friction buckles, side and belly loops that is properly sized.)"

So you bought a regulation Posey, so what.



"I’m DEEPLY offended by such an allegation. But really all that I have to say to this is the following… David- I’m sorry that me being better than you at this escape has seemed to upset you to the point that you’d call me a cheat."

Being good, or better at any escape has nothing to do with times. If you think that you are very misguided, also, if you think that the records I have set represent my fastest times you are even more misguided. I never set out to do the escapes as fast as I could. Just a bit faster than the previous holders. No-one with any idea of how to play the game does the fastest time they can possibly do. I am surprised you haven't figured this out.


"And another thing… while I’m at it, I’d really appreciate it if you’d finally take down the claims on your site that imply that you STILL hold the world record for the fastest escape from handcuffs – because the last time that I checked, that was mine too."

Of course, as long as you promise to do me the same courtesy if I beat them?


Cheers

David
Message: Posted by: Harry Murphy (Apr 5, 2006 10:24AM)
Kerstin, a German (?) female escape artist was given a certificate from Guinness for her escape in 8.28 seconds. That said I don’t know what standards she was held to. The jacket she holds up in her publicity photo looks like an older version of the Abbott’s gaffed jacket!

I wonder about all this Guinness record stuff anyway. At one time (in the 70’s and 80’s) they were refusing to recognize Straightjacket escapes in any category (shortest time to escape, escape while hanging from highest point, etc.).

Frankly, I can’t take Guinness straight, I have to do it as a Black and Tan (and that has evil connotations to my folks! I had a grandfather shot down by a Black and Tan! But I digress!!!).

Heck the book of records was just published to promote Guinness while settling bar bets!

Maybe we should start our own organization to certify various escapes. We could set the standard, judge the escape, award the certificate (and the bragging rights), and keep a public accessible repository of the record.

Or maybe we’ll all calm down and realize that we are trying to entertain here using escapes as our medium.

By the way, in the 70’s, I held a Straightjacket record briefly. Guinness refused to recognize it. I believe that I may still have the correspondence somewhere. My record was for the “slowest” escape from a regulation (blab, blab) jacket. It took me 18 hours! It was for a charity fundraiser. Money was donated for every hour of struggle! Later my record was beat by a Japanese teenager, she took 20 hours to escape. I hesitate to say this, but I think she cheated and slept part of the time!
Message: Posted by: mark2004 (Apr 5, 2006 01:31PM)
[quote]
On 2006-04-05 10:20, David Straitjacket wrote:

Mark. I wrote the rules for Guinness's straitjacket escapes, and all the above points are covered. please let me know if you would like a copy.

[/quote]

David,
Thanks for that offer, I've PM'd you about it. I did (as I indicated) wonder if the Guinness Book people had covered those concerns.

Mark
Message: Posted by: DavidEscapes (Apr 5, 2006 09:14PM)
For anyone that wants them :)


**********************************************************


STRAITJACKET ESCAPES
The following act as a guide to the specific considerations
and undertakings, in addition to the general requirements,
for any potential attempt on straitjacket escape records. They
should be read and understood by all concerned –
organisers, participants and witnesses – prior to the event.

RULES
These guidelines are for escapes by individuals using straitjacket. There are currently three categories based on speed and one based on height:-
• Fastest time to escape from a straitjacket
• Fastest escape from a straitjacket underwater
• Fastest time to escape from a straitjacket suspended upside down
• Highest suspension straitjacket escape

1. For all the attempts, a standard straitjacket must be used which has not been altered in any way. No theatrical straitjackets may be used

2. Each jacket must fit the escape artist according to his size. In order to make sure that the straitjacket used for the attempt is correctly sized, it is necessary to weigh the participant, and compare their weight against the manufacturers’ chart. Details of this must be supplied with the claim.

3. Prior to the record attempt an independent witness should inspect the straitjacket to ensure that all straps are in place and no alterations have been made and the arms are free of any ‘alien’ object. The jacket must have secured:
• Front loop arms
• Two side loops
• Four back straps in place
• Crotch strap in place

4. An experienced time keeper should be present for the event.

5. Qualified medical staff should also be present throughout the challenge.

6. Once the challenger is in the fastened straitjacket, it should be inspected by an independent witness to confirm that the jacket has been fastened correctly.

7. If the challenger wishes to elaborate on their escape for theatrical effect by using chains and padlocks, or dangling from a burning rope, they do so at their own will. The attempts remain as being the fastest or highest escape from a straitjacket.

8. Guinness World Records accepts no responsibility for the safety of record attempts, but it is recommended that stringent safety precautions are taken.


For the attempt on dry land:-
• The attempt begins after a pre-arranged countdown and ends as soon as the participant is free and drops the straitjacket on the floor.

For the under water submergence attempt:-
• The record may be set in any body of water, including lakes, swimming pools, the ocean etc. Note that there is no minimum depth – it is only necessary for the escape artist’s entire body (inlcuding the handcuffs) to be submerged during the attempt.
• The clock starts when the escape artist is fully submerged and stops once the straitjacket has been handed to the assistant/judge waiting on the edge of the water

For the fastest suspension attempt:-
• A safety net is adviseable
• The person must me suspended upside down at least 1 m (3.2 ft) from the ground. The height is to be measured from the ground to the challenger’s head.

For the highest suspension attempt:-
• The person must me suspended upside down on a rope no less than 10 m (32 ft) long once secured to the challenger.
• It is the height the aircraft/balloon reaches and maintains during the escape which constitutes the record, so calibrated altimeters on board the balloons should be used to record the exact altitude at the time of the escape.
• Breathing apparatus may be used.
• It is the responsibility of the record organiser/s to ensure that the event proceeds in accordance with local aviation laws. Breaking the law in any way during the record attempt will result in disqualification.
• Qualified medical personnel should be present throughout the attempt.
• The location above which the attempt to place should be given.
Message: Posted by: Red Von (Apr 5, 2006 09:24PM)
Thanks for the info David!

Clear and specific!

:cheers:
Message: Posted by: harry knight (Apr 6, 2006 02:37AM)
Great info David, Thank you.

Harry
Message: Posted by: Daniel Santos (Apr 9, 2006 11:16AM)
[quote]
On 2006-04-05 06:00, Kondini wrote:
Self ego is ok,,,,just keep it to yourself.

Ken.
[/quote]

Howdy. I must say that it's pretty much my fault for that. MTK told me he did not plan on saying anything, and that he does it mainly for business. He honestly did not want to start any trouble here. This is exactly what I told him, “I feel that when one does something extraordinary, it is appropriate to acknowledge them for their dedication despite personal opinion.”

If anybody feels the need to argue about the record set, I would recommend one of two things:

1.) You discuss it somewhere else.
or
2.) You take it out on me for bringing the whole thing up in the first place.

I really would like the bickering and backbiting to stop, so please don’t continue. Sorry about that!


Dan
Message: Posted by: Roslyn (Apr 10, 2006 08:14AM)
Hi all,

Is there any video footage of the individual sj escape records that have been mentioned here?

I really think they would be a great teaching aid to one and all (well ok me) as well as being interesting to watch.

Cheers,

Ros
Message: Posted by: Mind Witch (Apr 18, 2006 10:56AM)
18 second SJ escape. I do the Sj escape and my record is 28 seconds, but I don't use a gimmick but the side straps are removed. My record time is for me and fellow magicians. When I do this escape for spectators I try and make it about 3-4 mins. Is this bad?
Message: Posted by: Richard Sherry (Apr 18, 2006 11:18AM)
Mind Witch

Welcome.
As long as the audience is not falling asleep and you are keeping them very entertained, I don't think it matters how long you take.
Message: Posted by: DavidEscapes (Apr 18, 2006 02:12PM)
Yeah. Records are not for shows, they are just too quick.

Sace them for press stunts, TV specials, escape conventions etc. 3 - 4 minutes is fine as long as the crowd are entertained.
Message: Posted by: Mind Witch (Apr 19, 2006 09:29AM)
Usually the crowd consists of adults so I try and poke fun at the crouch strap with statements of anger management and the boys are in seperate zipcodes. I am always open for more suggestions and I tried to email some EAs but only one had ever responded. I know with magic it tends to be a tight knit/lip group, I am guessing that it is the same with EAs also.
Message: Posted by: Mind Witch (Apr 19, 2006 09:31AM)
Also, are there any recommended conventions that might be helpful in attending? I know about Cannons, but are there others that are note worthy?
Message: Posted by: James Peters (Apr 25, 2006 12:17AM)
Hi,

With regard to records, I do think that they should be managed carefully within the community.

For exmaple, if someone goes for mine (193 Posey escapes in 8 eight hours), what I would like to see is them just beat it, maybe 195-197 mark. Then I could try to take it back, and maybe fail (which would actually get me more publicity than succeeding). Then maybe I could 'just beat it' ... leaving the way open for a nice bit of competition as it goes back and forth. Remember, it's show-business!!

One of the guidelines set by Guinness is that a record must have the potential to be beaten by someone else. If we all subscribe to that, and everyone plays fair, then we gain a lot of credibility.

As for what a Guinness World Record actually means ... well, suffice to say that rules are not enforced strictly in escapology. The reason for this is that they don't have the knowledge to understand, and are as short-staffed as most other companies, so don't have the time to research it. Remember, they're just human, same as all of us! :)

James.
Message: Posted by: DavidEscapes (Sep 4, 2006 05:07PM)
Hi everyone

I just wanted to confirm that there is finally an end to this little drama. The below are the facts as I know them, and which can be checked independently.

Matt The Knife never went to Guinness with this record, and he failed to provide ANY source material, evidence or further details to the other record organisations. An independent witness since confirmed that Matt had attempted the record on that day, but had, due to a hand injury, failed to make the escape. He was bleeding heavily all over the jacket and stage from a cut hand, and was not permitted a second attempt. His claim WAS, as I fully suspected, bogus, complete lies.

He has since had the record stripped from him for failing to provide any evidence whatsoever. The fact is, it never happened. It was an attack on me for reasons I can not explain. Matt has also taken it upon himself to make derogatory comments about me at other internet sites. I will not respond with similar childish insults. I don't know why he does it, and I do not care. It, and he, are beneath contempt in my eyes.

Earlier this year I broke the Guinness world record for the SJ again myself, and am now the current holder with all the major record organisations. It is not the 18 seconds Matt claimed, but I have taken a good cut off Ben Bradshaw's record, and I am proud of that. I hope a decent, honest performer like Ben comes back and takes it away from me again.

Many thanks

David Straitjacket
Message: Posted by: Harley Newman (Sep 4, 2006 07:22PM)
I'm sure that many of us can claim records of some sort, and so what? The correlation of speed to performance ability is zero.

Since records seem to be so important to some of us, criteria need to be established. Any good research, has a goal of eliminating as many variables as possible, so that the ones remaining can be checked for validity of a hypothesis. Also, the researcher must have solid knowledge of the topic under examination. A banker is not likely to understand DNA analysis, for example.

The rules David proposed for straitjacket, are an excellent start.

I think it would be good if the device to be escaped from, was not supplied by the performer or anyone (s)he knows. To purchase a piece of equipment, has no relation to what may be covertly done to it, before its use in performance. We all know that. Most of us have altered one kind of device or another. (I once met someone, who'd enlarged the neck hole, which was a very useful idea, and was totally unobvious! I tried the jacket. How nice it was, yup!)

For straitjackets, may I also suggest that the inside of the sleeves be checked, to insure that the straps are sewn in place? In fact, the arbitrator should check all seams, inside and out.

Use of only one design of jacket, would substantially reduce non-plausible claims. Even a simple difference in Poseys, could make a significant difference in time. To look at the Posey catalog, is such a delight...all those possibilities!

Roller buckles vs. friction ones, which would be ok? Rollers certainly work a lot faster. Do the rules allow for a device that facilitates speed?

None of the Poseys I've had (I've never used another type, and buy them directly from the company) have roller buckles, except for one antique transport jacket. I was under the impression that they're not made that way any longer. I may misremember, or be wrong. I haven't looked at the catalog in several years.

Lack of a crotch strap makes things a lot faster. One would expect that all loops and straps should be in place for a record, and in use...sides, front, and crotch.

With something like cuffs, it's a bit different. If the performer supplies them, then a locksmith knowledgible in escape lore, should also check them. I've looked at Ian's ADAs, those beautiful things, and if I hadn't been looking for what I found, I'd have had no clue. It'd be better if they were straight from the supplier, the package opened at the site of the escape, by the arbitrator.

Let's see if we can keep this type of discussion to criteria, and whether they're met.

How can this be done? What criteria are there, for choosing the arbitrator? What qualifies them, to be a good judge?

What criteria are there for submission of a record? Certainly, in this day and age, video footage of everything, is essential, and ensures that all criteria are met. Without good video, no claim should be submissible. What else?

Guinness records. Many of them are BS. We all know that. I saw someone get one for glass-walking, and I could have found at least a dozen people in under an hour, who regularly did better. They just weren't willing to do a TV appearance for free.

I was talking with someone who'd had a string of Guinness records. He said they wanted him to pay them royalties, for using their name in his advertising. He dumped the records. He didn't feel they were worth the price.

I have a rejection letter from the G folks, saying that one of my stunts is "too dangerous to publish". I like that better than being in the book.

But if you're into that kind of thing, at least make sure the criteria are met, and that your claims can be substantiated.
Message: Posted by: DavidEscapes (Sep 4, 2006 07:36PM)
Hi

For the most part, the rules I wrote cover pretty much any faked or altered SJ, and only allow friction buckles, all the loops in place etc. These rules are the ones now used by Guinness, only slightly altered from my original draft to remove the Posey trademark (understandable), and to (bizarrely) remove the insistence on friction buckles being used.

For most handcuff records the cuffs must be supplied by a police officer only, with the serial number recorded, and checked, before an after any attempt.

For all records, video footage, independent witnesses, qualified timekeepers etc must be part of the attempt.

Again, I agree 100% about the performance side of things. I never have, and never will substitute speed for show. Records have opened a lot of doors for me, and that is why I continue to pursue them. But once the door is opened I leave the records outside!

I have a similar letter Harley, only mine says the record is being rejected because I am the only person in the world that can do it! I thought that was the point :)

David
Message: Posted by: Wolflock (Sep 5, 2006 02:20AM)
ROTFLMAO!!! Rejected because only you can do it? I think they need to re evaluate what a record is about. Write to ripleys instead.
Message: Posted by: aggieman (Sep 5, 2006 08:37AM)
Ya, I like rips a lot better, they work with you easier.
Message: Posted by: Roslyn (Sep 5, 2006 09:02AM)
Hi David,

What's the record that only you can do?

I'm intrigued!

I'm also a little baffled that Guinness would allow the use of buckles other than friction buckles.

I thought that these were the only types of buckles supplied on the jacket.

Is there a record for double sj escapes?

For that matter is there anyone that does a double sj from an ungimmicked posey and ungimmicked transport jacket?

Ros

ps

My posey transport jacket came with roller buckles and not friction buckles. Its not that old, got it about 2 years ago. Does anyone have a transport jacket with friction buckles, or is this standard?
Message: Posted by: Steve Baker - Mr.Escape (Sep 5, 2006 09:48AM)
Ros,

I did the first double SJ escape on "DC Live" in 1978!

Set the record then,from two Posey jackets(ungimmicked)
A strait jacket and a transport jacket,upside-down,with
the rope holding me up on fire!

I belive you have the tape,check out the time!!

Steve
Message: Posted by: Roslyn (Sep 5, 2006 12:23PM)
Hi Steve,

Not heard from you in a while. Hope all is well.

I'll have to have a dig around my escape videos and try to find it.

Did the Posey you used back in the 70s have the front and side loops, crotch strap and friction buckles?

In fact that leads me to the question of when did Posey start adding the loops and change to the friction buckles?

Oh, one other question. Steve, is this escape on the dvd you have for sale on your site?

Cheers,

Ros
Message: Posted by: DavidEscapes (Sep 5, 2006 12:33PM)
Hi Ros

The record is for the Posey straitjacket on stilts escape that I did. Everyone except Guinness accepted it!

Personally, I don't think for a second that I am the only one who could do it, I said this to Guinness that, and they didn't believe me! The rejection letter for it is nice though :)

Yeah, I dunno what happened to the friction buckle rule. I wrote it, and it vanished. It may just be an editing oversight on their part. If you were attempting this record I would recommend using a friction buckle Posey, just in case they decide to enforce the rule anyway. Guinness tend to check that a record attempt is comparable to the one before it, and work from there. So if the one before has friction buckles (it's mine, and it does!), they might well not accept roller buckles. Even if it is not mentioned in their rules.

I am probably going to go for a few more escape records before the year is out. Not my choice, I have a few international shows which have asked for this. After that, I will probably rest on my laurels as far as escape records go. I have done enough of them, and I have plenty of other things to do yet. I will be posting details of an escape I did last weekend in a short while, I think you will like it Ros :)

Cheers

David
Message: Posted by: Roslyn (Sep 5, 2006 02:14PM)
Thanks for the info David.

I look forward to reading your escape.

Ros
Message: Posted by: Riley (Sep 5, 2006 02:18PM)
Having heard about it over the phone, I KNOW you will like it.

Nice work David.

Best regards

Riley
Message: Posted by: Steve Baker - Mr.Escape (Sep 5, 2006 04:03PM)
Ros,

The 2 Posey jackets I used were supplied by a
hospital and brought to the DC show by two
hospital attendents,and kept in their custody
untill showtime!

The straitjacket was a standard jacket,no side or front straps(1978)

The transport jacket was standard also,but had side straps to control
the subject in the jacket!
Both had crotch straps,the SJ had roller buckles,the TPJ had velcro
back straps and a roller buckle crotch strap!

Yes it is on the Dick Clark video and DVD,that's on my web site.

Steve
Message: Posted by: aggieman (Sep 5, 2006 04:14PM)
[quote]
On 2006-09-05 13:33, David Straitjacket wrote:
Hi Ros

The record is for the Posey straitjacket on stilts escape that I did. Everyone except Guinness accepted it!

Personally, I don't think for a second that I am the only one who could do it, I said this to Guinness that, and they didn't believe me! The rejection letter for it is nice though :)

Yeah, I dunno what happened to the friction buckle rule. I wrote it, and it vanished. It may just be an editing oversight on their part. If you were attempting this record I would recommend using a friction buckle Posey, just in case they decide to enforce the rule anyway. Guinness tend to check that a record attempt is comparable to the one before it, and work from there. So if the one before has friction buckles (it's mine, and it does!), they might well not accept roller buckles. Even if it is not mentioned in their rules.

I am probably going to go for a few more escape records before the year is out. Not my choice, I have a few international shows which have asked for this. After that, I will probably rest on my laurels as far as escape records go. I have done enough of them, and I have plenty of other things to do yet. I will be posting details of an escape I did last weekend in a short while, I think you will like it Ros :)

Cheers

David
[/quote]

why not prove to them that it can be replicated, maybe someone here can attempt it, maybe not break it, but still accomplish it. I would do it, if I had that type of strait jacket.
Message: Posted by: Cindi (Sep 6, 2006 03:27PM)
I have been asked to post this information:
New Record Holders Republic standing Strait Jacket record today by Paul Carpenter . Time 15.72 seconds.
Jacket make unknown to me. For inquiries please contact them.

Cinderella
Message: Posted by: DavidEscapes (Sep 6, 2006 03:52PM)
Nice, that's fast!

I will be interested to see what jacket it was done with. I will ask David for the details. Well done Paul though.
Message: Posted by: Roslyn (Sep 6, 2006 03:58PM)
I have another question for you all... I know, I'm sorry.

But here goes.

What other organisations, other than Record Holders Republic and Guinness, are there that record world records?

Cheers,

Ros
Message: Posted by: aggieman (Sep 6, 2006 04:00PM)
Ripleys? I am not sure. but I am sure there is at least one more.
Message: Posted by: Wolflock (Sep 7, 2006 02:20AM)
We need to find all and record it here so that we can contact them when need be.

Is there no way that we can set up one through The Magic Café for all entertainers? The World Entertainers Records

Regards
Wolflock
Message: Posted by: Roslyn (Sep 7, 2006 04:35AM)
Maybe.

But those entertainers that don't come to the Café, or for those that don't have internet access wouldn't know about it.

In the juggling world there are so many different records recorded all over the place. It is impossible to truly know who holds what, or who's beaten what.

Everyone knows of Guinness, but not everyone knows of the Records Republic. And in the UK Ripleys is known even less.

However, it's a nice idea. But would take some serious work to actually get it in place.

Maybe start off with escape records and work up from there?

Ros
Message: Posted by: saxonia (Dec 6, 2006 07:05AM)
We at the Book of Alternative Book of Records (http://www.alternativerecords.co.uk) do. (By the way: We have also other categories for magicians like "fastest production of 8 silver dollars" or "fastest Charlier-cuts").
I started to publish them at http://www.recordholders.org/en/list/escapology.html, but in fact it turned out that the rules are not yet specific enough (as already discussed in the forum) and that it difficult for outsiders like me to judge about the validity of a claim.
For this reason, the verification of new records is now "rested" until we have sent the videos of outstanding record claims to someone from http://www.escapemasters.com.

I am sure that at the end of the procedure, the result will be the most reliable list of records for escape artists.

Ralf Laue
http://www.alternativerecords.co.uk

[quote]
On 2006-09-06 16:58, Roslyn wrote:
I have another question for you all... I know, I'm sorry.

But here goes.

What other organisations, other than Record Holders Republic and Guinness, are there that record world records?
[/quote]