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Topic: Harlin "No strings attatched dove production"
Message: Posted by: bry1513 (Apr 13, 2006 01:40PM)
I couldn't find anything about this in the Café while doing a search. Is anyone familiar with this product? I'd like to know more about it from someone who has used it.


Thanks and take care,

Message: Posted by: tdowell2007 (Apr 13, 2006 10:44PM)
Send me a PM and I will discuss it with you. I have two and can assist you in this decision.
Message: Posted by: Bob Sanders (Apr 18, 2006 04:31PM)

I have nothing against the product but I don't use it. Except outdoors, producing a dove completely free of a harness is rarely as risky as people think. I never use an invisible harness and see little use for one except for doves that fly away. Then you need new doves!

Enjoy your dove magic.

Message: Posted by: sperris (Apr 25, 2006 12:31AM)
I used it just to toy around with it...there really is no need for having the no strings thing because honestly you still end with a loop that you have to hide or ditch...pointless if you ask me

Also don't' forget that invisible harnesses, even in the right hands, are still not exactly safe for the dove...but that's a whole book I could be talking about instead you can hear me rant about unsafe dove magic on my LIVE IN A SKIRT DVD...it basically sums up how I feel about invisible harnesses and how unsafe they are and what you can do to make them as safe as possible...
Message: Posted by: Bob Sanders (Apr 25, 2006 01:13PM)

I'm glad to see you taking that position on the invisible dove harness issue. Beginners are the absolute last people that should try one. Life is full of options.


Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander

Dan, I'm in your area (actually Peoria) this week. Buzz me on cell phone if you have time to get together. (I get a break Sunday and Monday.)
Message: Posted by: greg frewin (May 3, 2006 12:19PM)
Thanx to those that value and have used the gimmick. I have used it for many years and have fooled and mystified many laypeople and magi. For those that have seen the show and were fooled I thank you as well. For those that say go back to conventional ways and just load your doves in your sleeves remember that pushing the envolope is not a bad thing. The gimmick frees you to have a sleeve style production anytime in your act. It also allows you to have the bird more comfortable up until and thru the production. Some people just don't like change. To answer on invisible harness production they can be very safe and effect if in the right hands. As far as the invisible gimmick without a loop, I am not familiar with it so I can not comment but it does seem every post Dan Sperry puts up about others products, including mine, he just knocks the product and then he wants you to buy his. Maybe opinions of his techniques should be in question after last years IBM. Just a thought...Greg
Message: Posted by: sperris (May 3, 2006 01:23PM)
Just to clear it up my opinion of the no strings attached production was based off of my own experience when working with it. I got it brand new for free to take a look at and play with. It just seemed like it could be confusing to a beginner especially in the set up and dangerous if they are unfamialure with the invisible harness. I'm serious in my feelings when you have to be careful when you're working with them. But its just an opinion, that's all, I'm not claiming to be right about everything just giving an honest answer.

Perhaps I plug some products of mine, so does about another 100 or so people on the Café. I don't make my living from them, its just something I have for the heck of it, so no big deal if people order them or not. I just keep it out there since I don't advertise anywhere about it.

Maybe I bashed some products, I don't' remember for sure what I said about this or that, but I know I can testify to saying that maybe I again gave an opinion of products and questioned them here and there. I don't think I have to go into a big lecture about how things can be taken out of context when written on the internet and read by other people. You cannot hear voice tone, see facial expression, etc. the type of thing that can very much change the way someone may read another's view. 90% of the time I'm just tossing stuff up on here as I'm doing about 4 other things at once on my computer. So I can see where maybe what I wrote can sound like a harsh tone or something. In regards to Greg's gimmick I didn't know I was bashing it or cutting it down but rather asking questions and giving my insight. Just from my upbringing in magic I was taught that you shouldn't start dirty and end dirty. But that's neither here nor there. I have never attacked anyone personally on here nor cut them down as people or their acts. My reviews of products in no way are expressions of how I feel of their inventor -unless otherwise stated I suppose. So I'm sorry if they were taken that way. I have a lot of respect for Greg and am happy for his successes in Niagra Falls. I know how difficult it can be to go into a venture like that as I have good friends who do it here in the mid-west. We need more quality magic out there set in a family atmosphere so high five on that one.

Finially, to address the comment where Greg mentioned the IBM convention this past summer in Reno; I posted about that on here as well as on the Kevin James board too. I thoroughly explained what happened, but I understand others will have their opinions of what happened and I'm ok with that. I can't control it, so no worries. I do, however, know that you can ask any of my friends and aquaintences who I have worked with and they will give you their own opinions. Many of them reside here in the Café'. But anyways, I gotta go meet Alkaline Trio, I hope that cleared up some things.
Message: Posted by: Chezaday (May 3, 2006 01:57PM)
Hey .. how about that Arthur Trace guy??

Ouch ..

Message: Posted by: bry1513 (May 6, 2006 10:48AM)
I know I don't personally know Greg Ferwin or Dan Sperry, but I do know now that I have lost respect for Greg after his last post here. I do follow Dan's posts and I know that he definately does not bash products just to promote his. I respect Dans opinion. Plus, there is also a big difference between bashing a product and bashing a member on here, which Greg just did. Very juvenile and classless. I guess this helps me make up my mind on wether I'll be buying this product.

Take care,

Message: Posted by: Christopher Starr (May 6, 2006 01:36PM)
Everyone has a right to their opinion. It's what makes a place like the Magic Café such a great read, because for every enthusiastic supporter of "A", there is always another supporter of "B". Greg's work speaks for itself, he has no need to defend it to anyone. I'm certain that Greg, like anybody else, has had shows that have had technical difficulties, and didn't go as planned.

I do enjoy the fact that people like Greg and Dan chose to particiate online here.
Their opinions CAN BE worth their weight in gold. I hope that they will continue to share with us.
Message: Posted by: Bob Sanders (May 22, 2006 08:10PM)

I agree with your point. An opinion about a product is not and should not be considered an attack upon the presenter or producer. We owe professional respect to all. We do not have to agree point by point. But the value of the person stays independent from the opinion of the product.

One of the real advantages of The Café is association among top thinkers and performers in the field of magic. Being free to share an opinion improves the information from which we can make decisions. Often we make some good decisions based upon the opinions of others about the topic. It's still a decision.

Keep us posted.

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander