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Topic: Review Request: InTact by Jesse Feinberg
Message: Posted by: zhuanan (Apr 29, 2006 10:20AM)
Hi Guys:


Has anyone obtained this effect?
What are your comments?

Thanks
Message: Posted by: emyers99 (Apr 29, 2006 11:24AM)
I ordered it a few days ago. Nothing yet.
Message: Posted by: Paul Wingham (Apr 29, 2006 03:14PM)
I don't know this effect but if memory serves me correct one of Jesse Feinberg's other effects pen thru arm, was a little dissapointing as the advert was a little bit liberal with the truth. I could be wrong and apologise if this is the case. That said a lot of people bought and loved the effect.
Message: Posted by: magicxman (Apr 29, 2006 04:42PM)
Yes, you are right. His Pen Thru Arm really disappointed me I will not order his trick again.
Message: Posted by: Paul Wingham (Apr 29, 2006 06:21PM)
[quote]
On 2006-04-29 17:42, magicxman wrote:
Yes, you are right. His Pen Thru Arm really disappointed me I will not order his trick again.
[/quote]

glad I got my facts right, was a little concerned I had said something out of line or unfactual.
Message: Posted by: teevtee (Apr 29, 2006 07:03PM)
Many people who bought Pen Thru Arm (myself included) thought it was not a very well thought out trick and that the advertising was in fact VERY misleading. Many, MANY people complained about this. Jesse defended himself by saying that he did not intend to mislead anyone. He said he changed the misleading video.

When asked about this new effect he swears up and down that the description is EXACTLY what you get this time. Jesse seems like a nice guy though I am very hesitant to buy another effect from him after the Pen Thru Arm let down. I will be very interested to see how this new effect is recieved. If it is good I will in fact purchase it myself but I think I need to take a wait and see attitude this time.
Message: Posted by: MarvinSanRemo (Apr 29, 2006 08:45PM)
Agree 100% teevtee!
Message: Posted by: jimesw (Apr 30, 2006 04:36AM)
I think the last post for this item got deleted because it was all speculation and no actual review (apart from the creator.)
Hoping this thread doesn't go that way and ends up being a review of the effect itself. There is already a thread on PTA if you want to review that.
Oh me, this post isn't a review already. I'll live with my double standards though.
Message: Posted by: emyers99 (Apr 30, 2006 06:36AM)
I will post a detailed review once I've had time to test this out.
Message: Posted by: APC (Apr 30, 2006 01:01PM)
Great...i look forword to reading your review
Message: Posted by: Steve Hook (Apr 30, 2006 08:58PM)
Why not post when you actually have a review written??
Message: Posted by: emyers99 (May 1, 2006 10:47AM)
Adam should be the one posting reviews since he works at a magic shop. He should also be getting us all discounts.

Back to InTact. I received mine. I don't have any of Jesse's other products so I'm not sure how this compares to his previous releases. Regarding this release, you get two pages of instructions, a prepared tic tac container, and that special something to make it all work. Yes there is a gimmick, but your hands do start and the container can be examined at the end. The gimmick is a variation of a gimmick that has been used in another effect sold here by a regular Café contributor and his effect has been highly praised. It will take some work to prepare a gimmick that works for you but it's not hard to do.

You do not have to use the container the Jesse sends with the trick, but it has been modified to make the illusion look even better. You could use your own and the only modification necessary would be that you have to cut around the label so the white cap is easily removable to get the card out.

I have to try this out before I can give you a working review but general impressions are good thus far. The nice thing is that the container can be on the table from the beginning. Yes, the lid is on the entire time up until you remove the card and yes, you can see through the container while it's on the table and in your hand. That's what makes this so clever. In the interest of full disclosure, you will have to ditch that special something at the end of the routine but it will go unseen (almost literally). Also, you could do this with a borrowed container but you would need some time alone with it first.

I constantly use my Mystery Box and still think it's the best around for this type of effect. InTact is very nice and allows you to do this when you are too casual to justify carrying around a fancy wooden box. The nice thing about InTact is the visual nature of the appearance of the card in the box. It's clear right up until the appearance of the card and the hand holding the container is clearly empty before the appearance. There is more work involved than with the Mystery Box but the visual nature of the appearance is arguably worth the minimal extra effort.

Again, this is a pre-performance review so take it for what it is worth. I want to get several dozen test performances in before passing final judgment but as for initial impressions, I was not disappointed with this purchase.

Eric
Message: Posted by: Lynetta (May 1, 2006 11:23AM)
I have one, but have yet to work with. However, Jesse showed it to me at Hank Lee's convention and he fooled me with it. That doesn't happen very often. I thought it was fairly simple and very clever.

By the way, Jesse is a very nice guy. Don't write him off just yet.

Lynetta
Message: Posted by: ClouDsss (May 1, 2006 12:04PM)
In the demo, he shaked the tic tac box and the card visually appears inside. And at another section of the clip, you can see him opening the tic tac box and taking the card from INSIDE the box.

Is all this achievable or is it like PTA, him showing what you can do with the gimmick again?

Thanks!
Message: Posted by: magicday (May 1, 2006 12:19PM)
By watching the demo I think the gimmick have applied Ron Jaxon's Bill clear principle. You have to make it yourself to match you.
Message: Posted by: ClouDsss (May 1, 2006 12:29PM)
[quote]
On 2006-05-01 13:19, magicday wrote:
By watching the demo I think the gimmick have applied Ron Jaxon's Bill clear principle. You have to make it yourself to match you.
[/quote]

wouldnt that make the tic tac box unexaminable unless you do a s*****?
Message: Posted by: emyers99 (May 1, 2006 12:59PM)
We shouldn't be discussing possible methods here.

As for removing the card from the container, I went back and watched the demo video, and no, you cannot remove the card as shown in the demo...at least not based on the instructions provided.
Message: Posted by: Lynetta (May 1, 2006 01:26PM)
I can't find the demo video, so I can't comment on whether the card can be removed as shown. But as for being examined, at the end of the routine, the card and box can be handed to the spectator and examined. The performer does have some responsibility, this is not a totally self-working trick. Practice will be required.

Lynetta
Message: Posted by: teevtee (May 1, 2006 04:41PM)
>>>As for removing the card from the container, I went back and watched the demo video, and no, you cannot remove the card as shown in the demo...at least not based on the instructions provided.<<<

OH BOY!!!!! Her we go again.

Alarms are going off in my head BIG TIME.

Are you telling me that the demo video shows something that cannot be done in reality? I mean if that is the case AGAIN then I am done with Jesse's stuff for sure. I hope I am either misunderstanding or that there is a mistake. Jesse took a lot of well deserved heat for his misleading and bogus Pen Thre Arm demo video. He latyer apologized and said he changed the video (though I have not viewed it yet). Jesse says that what you see on the InTact video is EXACTLY what you get. No ands, ifs or buts. Now if ater all of that he is STILL showing deceptive video then forget it... I mean that is just nuts.

Again, I hope this is a misunderstanding and that the video is truthful... can anyone confirm for sure?
Message: Posted by: RVH Magic (May 1, 2006 04:43PM)
This was one of the best tricks I saw at Hank lee's convention (together with the fabric manipulation products :) )
I think it's very clever & it looks great in the right hands...

Rafael
Message: Posted by: teevtee (May 1, 2006 04:51PM)
I just re-watched the demo video (you can find it at Hank Lees).

At the end you very clearly see Jesse remove the top of the tic tac container and then remove the actual card that is within, unfolds it and shows the camera (We assume that this was the selected card).

Please note, that this demo CLEARLY shows the card removal, the actual card is actually inside the case. This is NOT using the Mystery Box method or anything similar. Atleast that is what the demo vide shows. If this is not accurate then we have another problem here.

We want demo videos that show EXACTLY what REALLY happens, not embeleshments or eiditorial comments on what the audience will remember or any such thing. We want to see what the effect REALLY looks like in REAL life. Anything else is a flat lie. I am really interested in hearing what this thing actually does... hopefully it matches the video.
Message: Posted by: Mehtas (May 1, 2006 06:13PM)
Just saw the Demo on Hank Lee's Site.

Im sorry but it looks more like a Car Commercial rather than a magic Demo.

They havent learned, have they ??

WHY cant they just show a simple performance rather than words poping up in between and the added special effects :confused: :confused:
Message: Posted by: sharpace (May 1, 2006 07:38PM)
Mehtas,

I agree with you the demo look terrible, like to hide something and partial cutted !!!

Teevtee,

If just like Magicday said use "Ron Jaxon's Bill clear principle". I assume that at the end Jesse cannot remove the top of the tic tac container and then remove the actual card like on the demo video WITHOUT removed the gimmick.

That again another MISLEADING video demo. I hope someone who got it can proof I am wrong.
Message: Posted by: ClouDsss (May 1, 2006 09:42PM)
[quote]
On 2006-05-01 20:38, sharpace wrote:

If just like Magicday said use "Ron Jaxon's Bill clear principle". I assume that at the end Jesse cannot remove the top of the tic tac container and then remove the actual card like on the demo video WITHOUT removed the gimmick.

That again another MISLEADING video demo. I hope someone who got it can proof I am wrong.
[/quote]

Yup, emyers99 has kindly pointed out that that was not taught
Message: Posted by: teevtee (May 1, 2006 11:05PM)
I'm still waiting to hear from someone who owns it to say 100% for sure if the video is AGAIN misleading and AGAIN shows something not possible with the actual effect.

If it IS accurate and the video shows EXACTLY what can REALLY be done than WONDERFUL and bravo to Jesse. If not, then there honestly cannot be any claim of a misunderstanding or anythng like that.

The video is either accurate or it is not... I am really interested in finding out which it is.
Message: Posted by: Jessiah (May 1, 2006 11:19PM)
Ok, so I am adding a new demo video as we speak. I felt I needed to have something to accompany the release so I made this one first. I now realize it shows nothing. everything is cut out. So I will make sure you can see everything in the new one! Please wait for the new one, thanks for your patience. and please, no speculation or discussion of possible methods. Thanks guys :)

Thank you Lynetta for your kind words... Im so glad you like intact! it was great meeting you, I hope to see you at the next convention! Im still recovering, whew...

Eric, that was a great review! Not that it is positive, but that I really feel like you took your time and carefully explained the details. Its very important that the magicians here understand what intact is. I cant wait to hear about your performances!
Message: Posted by: teevtee (May 1, 2006 11:55PM)
So Jessie are you saying that the current demo video in fact shows something which simply cannot be done in real life? Is that the case?

I have yet to get a clear answer so I do not want to condem anyone but it sure seems like the video AGAIN is misleading.

If so all I can ask is WHY? Why on Earth after the debacle of PTA would this happen AGAIN?

Let me give you some simpel advice on this Jesse... I have produced several non magic related DVDs and nothing could possibly be more simple than what is required of you for your demo.

We don't want cuts, we don't want lame effects and disolves and title sequences and so on. You are NOT selling this to the general public and those viewing the demo are doing so by choice. You donot need to capture our attention or anything else like that in the demo. A demo should be this and nothing more or less:

Show a CLEAR and well lit (meaning bright, it does not need to be artistic) shot of yourself or another performer doing the trick in a real life situational setting. That's it... NOTHING MORE.

Set the camera on a tripod, you don't need hand held shots, zooms ort anything else. Perform the trick START TO FINISH. Do NOT have any cuts at all, NONE. Do NOT bring the Tic Tac box out of frame, even for a moment. Do NOT show us something that you think sort of represents what someone might possibly think they saw, just show us REALITY... PERIOD. Pretend the camera is a real person, as if you were really demostrating this to a live person. Then perform the trick start to finish, then shut of the camera... THAT'S IT! I mean what is difficult about this? If it takes 30 seconds to perform the trick then the video should be 30 seconds and it will take roughly 30 seconds to film it.

If the trick is strong you will sell a ton with an accurate and truthful video, if it sucks then you will sell none.

Come on man... this is starting to get a bit silly... seriously. If I am wrong, if that shot on your current video of you clearly removing the ACTUAL card from the case is possible then I will stand up and apologize... otherwise just what exactly are you tinking?
Message: Posted by: elierfr (May 2, 2006 03:14AM)
Hi,
teevtee I agrree with you!!!
I've bought Intact few days ago (i'm still waiting it).
I hope I'll not be desapointed with what I'll receive...
If the card can't be remove, it isn't interesting for me...
Message: Posted by: katty (May 2, 2006 06:10AM)
Elierfr,

Please let us all know whether the card can be remove as show on the demo video.
Last night I placed an order with Hank Lee I have consider to order Intact But as a new member here I already heard a lots of negative comments about this creator-Jesse Feinberg and his famous misleading video demo PTA.

I have hold my order until I have some actual review from other members.I hope Jesse don't cheat us again....
Message: Posted by: emyers99 (May 2, 2006 07:06AM)
You cannot remove the card as shown in the demo BUT I still think the trick is still strong. It is very visual and everything happens in the open.
Message: Posted by: elierfr (May 2, 2006 07:43AM)
Emyers99 if you cannot remove the card, the trick is easy to do and not interesting for me (perhaps it's a good trick, but I don't need it).
I mean I've ever made some gimmicks which do this...
The interesting things were : everything is examinable and that the card could be remove...
Message: Posted by: emyers99 (May 2, 2006 07:50AM)
I can see why people would feel misled by the demo. I bought it without seeing the demo and that is why I was not disappointed. I got exactly what I expected. I think the key to remember is that if you do it correctly, the effect on the spectators should be the same whether you actually remove the card from the container or not. In essence you have a Mystery Box using a tic tac container instead of a wooden box. There is more handling involved than with the Mystery Box but this is necessitated by the fact that the container is clear and the fact that everything can be examined at the end. I agree that it would be best if you could actually pull the card from the container at the end, but the fact that the container is on the table the entire time prevents that from happening. If you wanted to, you could actually load the card into the container while the container was in your pocket, but this would obviously weaken the visual impact and mystery of the effect.
Message: Posted by: elierfr (May 2, 2006 08:37AM)
The vidéo show something wrong!!!
I haven't buy a Mystery Box made with a tictac box.
If the trick I receive is a Mystery Box, I wasn't what I need (even if the tictac mystery box is a good trick)

When you see the vidéo and you read this (the email I've received from hanklee) :

"A signed, selected card visually appears inside a Tic Tac mint box.
Have a regular playing card freely selected, signed and returned to the deck.
Take a real Tic Tac box out of your pocket with your empty hand.
Only a couple of mints can be seen inside as you shake the box around.
Give the box one more, emphatic shake, and a card appears inside the box!
Immediately open the Tic Tac box, remove and unfold the card and reveal the
signed selection!
Everything is examinable."
Message: Posted by: Cameron Francis (May 2, 2006 08:50AM)
What's Jesse's web site? I want to see the new demo.
Message: Posted by: Jon Allen (May 2, 2006 08:51AM)
[quote]
On 2006-05-02 08:50, emyers99 wrote:
I think the key to remember is that if you do it correctly, the effect on the spectators should be the same whether you actually remove the card from the container or not.
[/quote]
If videos showed the 'effect' on spectators, we are heading down a slippery slope. People say that, "He never went near the cards" although through skill, technique and psychology, I do touch the cards but people do not realise. I cannot sell skill, technique and psychology. Is it okay to show a video where I do not actually touch the cards because that's the effect on the audience?

If the card cannot be taken out of the Tic Tac container then the video must not show that. The only exception is if there is a disclaimer saying, "Not actual performance - perceived effect only". This way people know what they see is not what actually happens. However, videos that hide the actual performance do a disservice because potential buyers are not made aware of what the performance will actually look like.
Message: Posted by: Platt (May 2, 2006 09:00AM)
Jessie shared his method awhile back with me. It's very smart. A lot of people are comparing this to the mystery box which isn't totally fair. In my opinion the coolest part of the effect is the visual flash appearance of a card in a tic tac box that was clearly empty a second ago. That's not the case with mystery box.

I, of course, agree with Jon. Why Jessie filmed the card being physically removed from the box is beyond me. After the PTA fiasco, for a minute I thought he was showing that as a joke. Either way, It sounds like he's correcting that. My order is in.
Message: Posted by: magicday (May 2, 2006 09:03AM)
I agree with you Jon.

The video should not show in this way, that is misleading. That is far from what buyer expected. Purchasing Jesse Feinberg's product is high risk without reviews from the one who really have it on hands.
Message: Posted by: emyers99 (May 2, 2006 09:28AM)
As I said in my initial review, the revalation of the card at the end is similar to that in the mystery box routine but I should clarify that the method here is nothing like the method for the mystery box. So I guess my point was that you cannot remove the card from the box as shown in the demo but you can remove the card along the same lines you would in the mystery box routine.

And yes I do agree that the demo should not have shown the removal as it did. My initial review did not mention that because I did not see the demo before I bought this so I wasn't aware that that was how it was advertised.
Message: Posted by: Jon Allen (May 2, 2006 11:16AM)
Jesse,

One simple question which I think will end any speculation:

Can you remove the card exactly as shown in the video?
Message: Posted by: MarvinSanRemo (May 2, 2006 11:41AM)
Being a disappointed PTA customer, I thought for sure this one would have no issues. A little bit of advice Jesse. No matter what anyone thinks of penguin magic, they do one thing perfectly...They film demos the way they ought to be. Just as teevtee suggested, begining to end, no cuts, no text, no nothing. Just the effect and how it will look to the spectator. Take some cues from them and film a demo the right way, or don't do it at all. Here is a good example: http://www.penguinmagic.com/product.php?ID=237
Sure the video is obvious to most how it works, but there is no deception. You see the effect exactly how it will be seen by the spectator.
Message: Posted by: Jessiah (May 2, 2006 12:15PM)
The demo you saw was more like a trailer, I said this before. There were NO performances... except for a little flash of a production. I was working on a full demo... which will be up in about 1 day. I'll make sure you see everything. I will also show how a folded card can appear inside, and then be removed in detail. The card in the box was exactly that... in the new demo, I will show how a real folded card can visually appear inside and then be removed. If any owners of intact have questions, please contact me by PM or email.
Message: Posted by: MarvinSanRemo (May 2, 2006 12:18PM)
Sounds good. I cant wait :)
Message: Posted by: MarvinSanRemo (May 2, 2006 12:23PM)
In the future, you might forget the trailer, and wait until you have a demo made. I realize you are excited to get something out that everyone can see. But after the PTA issues, I would have thought you would know better :)
Message: Posted by: Jessiah (May 2, 2006 12:51PM)
Thank you Marvin, I appreciate your enthusiasm. I wont let you down ;)

The new demo will address the effect in its entirety and you will see everything. I will even show how a folded card can appear inside a tic tac box and be removed (a few different ways). All of this and more. I have no intentions to mislead anyone. The first video was not a full demo, so don't start analyzing it. There is no performance to analyze. I want you guys to understand what intact is about, and what is possible with it. please, no more discussion about demos and marketing... start a new thread somewhere.

Jesse
Message: Posted by: magicbyswh (May 2, 2006 04:57PM)
When will the video be ready?
Message: Posted by: truthteller (May 2, 2006 05:06PM)
I guess my question is different, yet related?

Has the product been released, has it been shipped? If not, then this thread promises to devolve into another hype-fest akin to that of Hole in the Head and the Kennedy Book test.

The video deception is an important issue, but let us learn from previous mistakes.
Message: Posted by: walking_liberty (May 2, 2006 05:13PM)
[quote]
On 2006-05-02 18:06, truthteller wrote:
I guess my question is different, yet related?

Has the product been released, has it been shipped? If not, then this thread promises to devolve into another hype-fest akin to that of Hole in the Head and the Kennedy Book test.

The video deception is an important issue, but let us learn from previous mistakes.
[/quote]

There's a review on the first page.
Message: Posted by: Jessiah (May 2, 2006 05:20PM)
Truthteller: the effect is available, as of 2 days ago. No hype, no mistakes :)

The official demo will be up in about 1 day. PM me if you have any specific questions. Im always here to help guys. Thanks for your interest. -Jesse
Message: Posted by: teevtee (May 2, 2006 08:21PM)
The InTact demo video shows that a card is freely removed from the case, it was INSIDE the case and there were no "moves" or anything to get the card out, it was simply removed. We have heard from those who own it that this is not possible. My concern is that Jesse has a track record of misleading videos. His Pen Thru Arm video also showed types of effects which could not be performed with what he sold you. It seems that again we have what I consider to be a decptive video.

It seems to me that if a person puts out a demo video and an item for sale that it is safe and fair to comment on that. This is the type of information which readers look for. I want to know if an effect (any effect) lives up to it's description and demo videos and so forth.

I do NOT own the effect so my comments are based on what those who do own it have stated. There have been more than 10 other people on this thread who have echoed my concerns about the deceptive video.

I will not comment further until I see the effect but I do feel it is important for people to share thoughts and comments, good or bad. That is what this forum is about.
Message: Posted by: Muckey Spleen (May 2, 2006 08:47PM)
Hmmm - Mr. Allen's direct, clearly worded question remains unanswered.
I remember the brouhaha surrounding the Pen Through Arm demo, and the assurances that the demo would be changed to more accurately reflect reality, so I just checked it out at Hank Lee's site. Amazing - in the final shot, the arm is penetrated to a point midway through the printing on the side of the pen! Must be a devilishly clever method. I have viewed the "trailer" for InTact, and look forward to the "official" demo and subsequent tapdancing.
Message: Posted by: truthteller (May 2, 2006 10:04PM)
Walking_Liberty,

Thanks. I had read that, but for some reason one of the later posts made me think that the review somehow preceeded mass release. My misunderstanding. Staying awake for 36 hours will do that.

Brad
Message: Posted by: tdowell (May 2, 2006 11:26PM)
Another card to impossible location...ZZZzzzzzzzzzzz
Message: Posted by: Jessiah (May 3, 2006 12:00AM)
Ok, let me make this completely clear. Intact allows you to make a folded card appear inside. Then you take it out and hand them everything. I will show this on the demo. It will be up by friday at the latest. Anyone that owns intact, and does not understand how this works, I will be glad to quickly explain. Im actually working on updating the instructions with a few more pointers and handling tips. There are so many things possible with intact. The invisible forums on my website will allow for any owners to register and share secrets. I will make sure all of this is also on the forum. Please register owners!

Let me know if you have any specific questions about intact. Im here :) -Jesse
Message: Posted by: Steve Hook (May 3, 2006 12:14AM)
C'mon, Todd........play nice! Or are you just falling asleep because Brad mentioned he'd been awake for 36 hours?
;-)
Message: Posted by: teevtee (May 3, 2006 12:15AM)
I believe the original question has not yet been answered jessie. You ask if there are any specific questions so let me copy and paste Mr. Allen's question to you:

"Can you remove the card exactly as shown in the video? "

Please note the wording and answer THAT question. This is not asking what the audience will remember or any more gneral question but SPECIFICALLY about what is shown in the original and current video.

Thank you.
Message: Posted by: Jessiah (May 3, 2006 11:21AM)
Ok... the demo will include the following (and more). A card is selected, and returned. The tic tac box is shown empty... in a shake, a folded card visually appears inside. The folded card is removed... no switching. This is a full folded card trapped inside. Everything is examinable as always. This is a slightly new way to handle intact. Nothing an intact owner couldn't figure out... but I PM'd a couple of people here just to quickly explain. Plus, this is what my secrets forum is for. The regular handling (explained in the instructions) takes you from the tic tac box on the table, to a card appearing inside, to dumping everything out on the table for immediate examination. Nothing is left out, its an easy routine and handling that allows for a signed card. So many things are possible with intact...
Message: Posted by: sharpace (May 3, 2006 11:42AM)
Jesse,

If I use the regular handling (explained in the instructions) takes the tic tac box on the table, do I need to use a black close-up pad or any surface will do? Thanks
Message: Posted by: Jessiah (May 3, 2006 12:27PM)
Great questions sharpace... you don't need any special surface... You will learn how to show the tic tac box empty on the table at the start of the routine. These kind of things are what makes intact so special. Theres so much more to just pulling a card out of a box. Intact is also great for walk around. You just need a pack of cards and intact in your pocket...
Message: Posted by: teevtee (May 3, 2006 02:40PM)
Am I missing something here or are you not answering Mr. Allen's simple question. I mean literaly a "yes" or "no" will suffice.

The direct question again is:

"Can you remove the card exactly as shown in the video? "

Mr. Allen is refering the the original and current video. I think we would appreciate an answer to his as it would help us evaluate both the video and the effect. You have now not answered this question for days Jesse and I think it has us confused. If the video is accurate and truthful then the simple answer is "yes". If on the ohter hand the video is misleading and shows something which cannot be done the answr is a simple "no".

Can you please answer this for us?

Thank you again.
Message: Posted by: Jessiah (May 3, 2006 03:10PM)
[quote]
On 2006-05-02 21:21, teevtee wrote:
I will not comment further until I see the effect...
[/quote]

Us? I just described what your are asking in detail, I did better than a yes or no. What you saw in the first video was not a performance...There is NOTHING there for you to analyze or "hold me too". it was a card being removed from the box. I will however show you how that IS possible. I will make sure that this is PERFORMED in the new demo. ok tvt, enough already. WTF
Message: Posted by: magicbyswh (May 3, 2006 03:31PM)
Jesse some people are just jealous. One in particular. Wonder what they have created. Maybe a trick that involves crying!
Message: Posted by: Mehtas (May 3, 2006 03:42PM)
[quote]

Wonder what they have created. Maybe a trick that involves crying !

[/quote]

........ and thumb sucking as well :)



I think teevtees posts are turning out to be more like police interrogations rather than enquiries.
Message: Posted by: jfkkraemer (May 3, 2006 03:47PM)
As usual, certain people rant and rave, gets obvious who they are so start noticing posts from specific people and they will become expected and mainly negative. No need for that at all.

Jeff
Message: Posted by: Jessiah (May 3, 2006 04:14PM)
LOL :) I have to cringe everytime I come back! Thanks for your understanding guys! Sorry to make you sift through the crazyness in search of a normal review. Luckly, the FIRST PAGE!!!! has some reviews and of course, more to come.
Message: Posted by: teevtee (May 3, 2006 04:16PM)
A) Nothing negative about my posts in general or my posts here to be specific. Look at my thoughts on the effect "$" for example... nothng but glowing praise. When an effect is good and honest I LOVE raving about them in positive and effusive ways. I am NOT commenting on the EFFECT intact because I have not seen it in person. I am simply commenting on the video and this is all I have EVER commented on. It seems to me that Jesse continues to have a real problem showing us videos that show what the actual effect does and not some fiction.

B) No crying or thumb sucking. All I have ever done on this thread is ask for a simple and direct answer from jesse, and he flat refuses to give it. I guess that means we all know that the answer to the question is "no" you cannot do what the demo video showed. I have to wonder then why Jesse is showing that video in the first place, why was it even filmed?

C) Yes Jesse, "us" as in my self, and the several other people who asked for the question to be answered. You STILL have no answered it. What you have said is that you will put up a new video that shows a full performance. GREAT, I look forward to seeing that, honestly, but that was not what I was asking.

D) You asked "WTF?" I guess I have the same exact question for you "WTF"

Finally Jesse, I responded to your last PM and I am still waiting a response...
Message: Posted by: Chessmann (May 3, 2006 04:46PM)
Teevee has a valid point. Whether or not the video was an actual performance demo or not, it most certainly would lead someone to believe that the card can be taken out in that manner.

On the other hand, Jesse mentioned in his (next to) last post that taking the card out in that manner is possible.

The points being made are clear, so both sides repeating them does no good right now. Those who don't see Teevee's point don't want to see it, and vice versa. Might be better to wait for "THE DEMO" :^) and go from there.
Message: Posted by: Jon Allen (May 3, 2006 07:50PM)
Hi Jesse,

I think people can make up their own mind as to whether my original question actually answered or not. Personally, I don't think it was but that's your choice.

I am honestly thinking of buying the trick. However, if I cannot remove the card as shown in the original demo, do I get a refund?

Many thanks,
Jon
Message: Posted by: johnnymystic (May 3, 2006 07:57PM)
Why the frick does a demo matter anyway? Who cares, it's all trivial...it's just magic folks! :)

Does teevtee go to McDonalds and complain because his Big Mac doesn't look like the one in the picture?

johnny
Message: Posted by: Mehtas (May 3, 2006 08:21PM)
[quote]

On 2006-05-03 20:57, johnnymystic wrote:

Why the frick does a demo matter anyway ?

[/quote]

It DOES matter.

Becouse that's what sells magic tricks.
Message: Posted by: Jon Allen (May 3, 2006 08:28PM)
[quote]
On 2006-05-03 20:57, johnnymystic wrote:
Does teevtee go to McDonalds and complain because his Big Mac doesn't look like the one in the picture?
[/quote]

If they showed someone eating a Big mac, cut away, then showed them having lost weight (the burger is examinable btw) saying you could lose weight with MacDonalds.....but neglected to say you have to walk 10 miles a day to get to the restaurant.... I think we'd complain.
Message: Posted by: CoinMan21 (May 3, 2006 08:35PM)
From a neutral standpoint, Jesse seems to be beating around the bush. All customers are asking for is truth and honesty in video demos. If you think this effect isn't suitable on video, don't make one. The Glass Mirage effect is a fine example on a dishonest video with one too many cuts.

As magicians, we are looking at effects from a magician's point of view. When making purchases, we want to know how the effect plays in our hands rather than what the audience sees it as. We as performers present our routines in our own unique style. Some performers being purists, avoid gimmicks. Some magicians prefer examinable props while others avoid having to do a switch a the end. We try to make sensible purchases as to whether the effects will suit us. The market is flooded with Card to Impossible Location effects. We need to know what makes one stand out from the rest.

I can understand teevtee's reactions after being burnt by PTA. From what I observed, Jesse likes to put moves on videos not found in the original instructions. First, it was PTA. Now, InTact. I see no reason in putting up extra moves and proclaim it can be done and you will explain them to owners after people complain. It seems either you rush into the release or your just making your effects look good on camera to boost your sales.

Video demos are useful but if you feel it would expose the method, don't do one.
Message: Posted by: Jessiah (May 3, 2006 09:36PM)
Please let me try to clear this up. First, what you saw in the trailer IS actually possible with Intact, yes. What you saw was not a performance but It is totally possible. Its basically the same thing as the original routine. Any owner could easily figure out how a folded card could be hidden inside. In the full demo, I am going to make sure that I show two different "extractions" of the card. The full routine in the instructions explains how to do the exact same effect as the description (my site and Hanks). Many things are possible with Intact. You could make a folded bill appear inside, a coin, a mini playing card... etc. When you own intact, you will understand what I am talking about. I explain all of this in the extra's. And the new forum is designed for sharing these ideas with owners.

Please PM me if you have any specific questions that might not contain any actual reviews of intact or at least regular discussion. I have only been talking to one of you, so lets get serious guys. Intact is an awesome trick that you will love. Read the reviews. Thanks guys.
Message: Posted by: APC (May 3, 2006 09:57PM)
Hey Jesse,
I have been thinkin about buyin this...are you gonna be around Hanks any time in the near future to demo it live?
Message: Posted by: james-harrington (May 3, 2006 10:18PM)
I noticed the card in the video wasn't signed, is that integral to the alternate method of having the card come straight from the box? I'm not fishing for the method by any means, I just believe that IF that is the case then the demo was NOT missleading.

If I can have a card selected and have it visually appear inside the box, then remove is as per the demo... all be it without the signature, then yes... I'll take one please! :)

James
Message: Posted by: Jessiah (May 3, 2006 10:21PM)
This saturday my man!!! Let me know whats good. I have to work all day, but I should be able to pop in at the end of the day... probably 4-6. I'll show you all of the inner workings... then you could give an new review for everyone, that would be great. Usually on saturdays I'll go in. Anyone in the area, hit me up.

Thank you for all of the support everyone... I hope things are clear now.
Message: Posted by: teevtee (May 3, 2006 11:23PM)
I think Coinman summed up my concerns and others concerns very well.

I think I have certainly stated my concerns and worries and in fact OVER stated them (I get stubborn sometimes) so I will not repeat them again thoough they are still there.

Jesse has told me in private and now here on this forum that what you see on that demo video IS possible. Now he keeps saying that it is not a demo video but just a trailer but I really don't see the difference or understand why he would put out a trailer that is not really the trick... just semes confusing and in fact has created this debate.

I think that what Jesse is really saying here is that if you wanta SIGNED card to come out of the case then no, it will not look like the video. If you want just any old card to come out then you can rig something to make that work. Fair enough but you can see how one would be confused if they did not go through a two day discussion about it.

After all of this I am willing to cut Jesse some slack untill I can check this out myself, should be interesting.

Lastly, Johnny, I guess we just have MASSIVELY different views of the world and have to leave it at that. I do not accept being duped or scamed whenever possible. While your example of a McDonalds ad is clever it does not really hold water. Jesse or any creator of magic is free to make the trick look as dramatic as possible for the packaging. Show the Tic Tac box with lightning shooting out of it for all I care. But Jesse is never claiming that lighning shoot out of the box, a reasonable person understands that something like that is for looks only. But when you see something that looks like all the world a deom video of a magic trick being shown to magicians who may buy the trick... wehll your *** straight I want that to be accurate and truthful.

If you accept being deceived as just something that is OK or normal then again, we just don't see eye to eye on that but it is your perogative.
Message: Posted by: ClouDsss (May 3, 2006 11:43PM)
Same as PTA? where we COULD actually do the part where the pen seemly appear on the other side of the arm? So that's what intact demo showed too? the possibilities again?
Message: Posted by: TomasB (May 3, 2006 11:58PM)
Jaxon has an excellent principle he uses in Bill Burner and near the end of this thread

http://themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=159918&forum=159&2

he mentions doing it with a TicTac. Jessiah has a great application for it but as I remember the video said that it was a new concept. Still a great application.

/Tomas
Message: Posted by: Cameron Francis (May 4, 2006 12:09AM)
So have Jesse and Jaxon simultaniously released a similar product?
Message: Posted by: Jessiah (May 4, 2006 01:13AM)
I don't think we did. I heard about his new effects a couple of days ago. similar sort of, but different in many ways. Intact has an exact science to it... its hard to imagine someone else got what I got. The way the gaff works with everything else is definitely something new and unique... so you got two different things here. I definitely recommend Jaxon's products... he's a great mind in magic for sure! I bet these effects would be GREAT together. Thanks for bringing this to everyones attention. I would recommend purchasers of intact check out Jaxon's new effects. Great combo I'm sure.
Message: Posted by: james-harrington (May 4, 2006 06:15AM)
Teevtee, doesn't seem you read my post but you answered my question anyway so thanks! I've just ordered one.:)

James
Message: Posted by: teevtee (May 4, 2006 09:47AM)
James:

Sorry, I actually DID read your post but just came to the same conclusion you did. It is important to note that I have no specific insight to this. I am guessing just like you but based on what Jesse has said I believe that what we both have said is likely correct. ie: non signed card can be rigged to come out of case, signed card cannot be.
Message: Posted by: Jessiah (May 4, 2006 11:41AM)
Exactly, thank you teevtee. read the intact description, and that is what you immediately learn how to do... intact will then allow you to do new things such as the above non signed card handling. This is just one of many. Thanks for the clarification guys. -Jesse
Message: Posted by: tootall (May 4, 2006 01:15PM)
[quote]
On 2006-05-02 00:19, Jessiah wrote:
Ok, so I am adding a new demo video as we speak. I felt I needed to have something to accompany the release so I made this one first. I now realize it shows nothing. everything is cut out. So I will make sure you can see everything in the new one! Please wait for the new one, thanks for your patience. and please, no speculation or discussion of possible methods. Thanks guys :)
[/quote]

Looking forward to seeing the "new" demo vid. Any specific time you can tell us when it will be up? You have been working on it for a couple days now.
Message: Posted by: elierfr (May 4, 2006 02:37PM)
I just received intact.
It seems to be a good item but you can't remove the card like the video show...
So I don't think I'll use it.
Next time don't make a video (or a tailer).
Just describe the effect.
Message: Posted by: Cameron Francis (May 4, 2006 03:07PM)
You know, what makes this effect for me is the VISUAL appearance of the card in the Tic Tac box. Whether or not you can actually remove the card, to my mind, at least, doesn't matter. It's such a stunning appearance. That's what the effect is about.

Yes, okay, the demo is misleading. But now that we know what the effect is, it's still a pretty darn good effect. One other aspect of it that appeals to me is that it totally justifies the card being folded. You can't fit a card in a Tic Tacbox unless you fold it. Makes sense.

I haven't purchased the effect yet but I'm seriously thinking about it. Ultimately, who cares if you can actaully remove the card from the box? You can't do it with a Mystery Box or Anything Wallet and those effects are fantastic.
Message: Posted by: elierfr (May 4, 2006 03:14PM)
[quote]
Ultimately, who cares if you can actaully remove the card from the box? You can't do it with a Mystery Box or Anything Wallet and those effects are fantastic.
[/quote]

the video of the Mystery Box is clear.
You can do what you see.
Message: Posted by: Mehtas (May 4, 2006 03:35PM)
Would it be possible to make the dumping action and MAKE it appear that the signed card was removed from within the clear box ??

With help of M fold of cource :)

Knowing the possible working, I don't think but I could be wrong.

What I DO know is that it IS possible to remove the card from the box (I've already figured a way out in my own mind).
Message: Posted by: Jessiah (May 4, 2006 03:47PM)
Yes... the m fold would be the perfect thing for the signed card... and the instructions provided explain ALL of this including alternatives... pictures even guide you through all the steps of the routine. Mehtas is totally right, its very much possible... I have come up with some pretty cool handlings that I will share on my forum.

Making a full folded card appear inside IS possible. elierfr, please contact me. I will quickly explain. Its simple to understand... really, anything could appear inside the tic tac box! But a real folded card IS DEFINITELY possible. Lynetta even sent me a message describing how she would set it up...

Again, the video was not misleading in anyway. What you saw is possible, and I will show this in the new demo (for the hundreth time!). Please be patient. This thread is eating into my free time, so hopefully the demo will be up soon. Thanks. -Jesse
Message: Posted by: Jon Allen (May 4, 2006 03:51PM)
[quote]
On 2006-05-04 16:07, cfrancis wrote:
You know, what makes this effect for me is the VISUAL appearance of the card in the Tic Tac box. Whether or not you can actually remove the card, to my mind, at least, doesn't matter. It's such a stunning appearance. That's what the effect is about.
[/quote]

Before I decide to buy or not, I would like to see a real performance demo, just like Mystery Box. Yes the appearance is visual but personally, I want to see the ease and naturalness of getting into position. Far too many efects, especially online, are made perfect for the camera.

Yes, people have said it's all possible but I would like to see the creator being able to do it for us.
Message: Posted by: Jessiah (May 4, 2006 04:01PM)
Yes, thanks Jon... please, everyone wait for a new video if you have questions about what intact is all about. How easy it is, and smooth, visual, practical. I will try to answer most of that in the new video. If its not up tomorrow, it will be on Monday. Later -Jesse
Message: Posted by: APC (May 4, 2006 07:29PM)
Aw....this saturday I'm working a party for family friends...maybe next saturday!
Message: Posted by: Cameron Francis (May 4, 2006 08:37PM)
Monday? Man, I was really looking forward to seeing that video tomorrow.
Message: Posted by: magicxman (May 4, 2006 09:28PM)
Jesse need some more time to sell his Intact, he will launch the new video As Late As Possible... After watching the new video I think he will lost a lots of orders. Not everyone login Magic Caf?, some didn't read this forum just surf Hank Lee's site, after watching his misleading video they will place an order on Tntact.

I think Jesse will gather more orders before he launch his new video.
Message: Posted by: Benji Bruce (May 4, 2006 09:39PM)
I think everyone here is blowing this out of proportion about removing the card. You don't have to ACTUALLY remove the card from the tic tac box, you just have to make it look like you remove it from the box. Everyone who has Mystery Box doesn't complain about not ACTUALLY removing the card from that box, so why complain about this effect. I don't know Jessiah and I havent purchased any of his products yet but all he was doing with the demo was showing you the effect NOT THE METHOD. I havent heard one person say "well if I can't actually remove the card from the mystery box then I'm not buying it"....we are magicians, our job is to create illusions of reality. It doesn't matter to the spectator if you can ACTUALLY remove the card from the box, what matters that what they see is you removing the card from the box. Stop baggin on Jessiah, when he puts his demo out then watch it and decide if you want the effect or not.
Message: Posted by: Platt (May 4, 2006 10:47PM)
BBMagic, you are way off base. No #%! you don't have to actually remove the card from the box. The problem people are having is that he does actually remove the card from the box. If kennedy didn't just make it look like he was removing the card from the mystery box in a demo but truly reached in with his fingers in a way that can't actually be done people would have an issue with that too.

I like Jesse and for all I know his video holds up. This has nothing to do with him and everything to do with your way off base comments. According to you, magic demos should have only the requirement of looking the way the spectator might see it or remember seeing it. Do you really mean that?
Message: Posted by: ClouDsss (May 4, 2006 10:47PM)
Can I sell an effect of Card penetrating thru a box and in my demo show the CARD really going into and coming out the other side of the box without damanging it?

Later when people buy because of how visual it looked on the demo just to realised that they CANT do it as seen in the demo.

My arguement would then be, THAT IS WHAT THE AUDIENCE visualises!! There is NOTHING MISLEADING in the demo.

would it be ethical? just curios that's all no offence intended to Jessiah
Message: Posted by: teevtee (May 4, 2006 11:11PM)
I have stated (and restated and RE-restated) my specific comments on the Intact demo video so I am not repeating them again.

Now I am raplying to BBMagic and the general idea od demo videos.

People who have complained about misleading videos (myself included) have said again and again and again that the complaints are about misleading people into thinking a trick can do something it cannot... it has NOTHING to do with the effect itself.

BBMagic is comparing InTact to the Mysetry Box. Now, lets think about this. If you know nothing about either trick and are just in the market for a card to impossible location effect and you view both videos what are you going to see? On the Mystery Box you will see a flded card appear inside the box and then the box being turned over and the card apparantly dumped out into the magician's hand. OK, good effect but you probbaly can figure out the method. Now you look at the InTact demo and you see VERY clearly a folded card ACTUALLY being reomved from within the case (that same card REALLY was in there) and shown to the camera. Now you are going to think "MAN! That is WAY better than the Mystery Box!" and order it. After you get the effect if you realized you could not REALLY do this would you not be upset? Would you not feel misled? OF COURSE you would, either that or you just are in a daze and are incredibly unaware of the world around you.

Jesse says that in this specific case there are alternate methods to make similar things happen and so forth but again, this is NOT about InTact per say... it is about the general idea of a demo video showing something that is different than what the effect really was designed to do. Some people oddly seem to think that is OK. To me that is just CRAZY, I mean really crazy.
Message: Posted by: Jessiah (May 5, 2006 02:08AM)
Ok. we should leave the general talk about demos for another thread. I thought I had cleared things up but here it goes again:

what you saw was no lie, you can actually hide a real full size folded card inside the tic tac box and make it visually appear. Just like you saw in the first video. Intact is definitely different than the mystery box. Intact has more applications and variations in handlings possible. I just did some video shots tonight. Im up at 3 AM and I gotta work tomorrow. So I will be completing the video this weekend and it will be up next week. I got some great shots of me making a real folded card appear inside and then taking it out. also, I hope to have captured a perfect full performance shot. This stuff takes time. I am not delaying anything... quality is whats priority. Im not whipping up a video just for you guys... I need a video that will last for a long time so it needs to be perfect. Im trying to build a relationship with everyone here, not make sales. I can't please everyone, ok! No marketing strategies have ever come into play with intacts release. When the review thread popped up, the trick was already being shipped. And there are some excellent reviews on the FIRST PAGE. You guys should be commending that... look at all the other topics in the Café. I could never put a video up and sell intacts. Its a service to you. Im glad to do it. :)
Message: Posted by: elierfr (May 5, 2006 08:23AM)
Jessiah
Are you going to give back the money to the persons who have bought your item based on the video (like me) ?
No I don't think...
You say that you could never put a video, I agree and it would be better!!!
The problem is that you've put a video and a misleading video!

Of course you can put a real card on the tictac box but you will have to force a card and the card will not be able to be signed.

If you force a card you can do... whatever you want... you can make the card appear in your underwear if you want ;-)
Message: Posted by: Jon Allen (May 5, 2006 08:48AM)
Hi Jesse,

I'm happy to hear it is possible to have a card come put of the Tic Tic box. It seems now this card cannot be signed. Can you pull a signed card out of the box as the video showed?

Cheers,
Jon
Message: Posted by: teevtee (May 5, 2006 09:54AM)
I'm trying to talk in GENERALTIES here since I have already commented about InTact.

But IN GENERAL a demo video needs to not only show what is possible to do with the trick but also what the description says the trick can do.

For example, if the description say you do not need to use a force (freely choses card) and the card can be signed, then THAT is what the demo needs to show. As elierfr points out if you need to force a card then the trick is no longer what it says it was.

So to use Mystery Box as an example I could show a demo of a card ACTUALLY being removed from the box. I mean I could show a CLEAR close up of a folded card being slowly removed from the box and unfolded. You see OF COURSE it is possible to fold a card and place it in the Mystery Box, then to force that card but that is NOT the purpose of the Mystery Box or what it was designed to do. I could also show the Mystery Box holding some ground pepper sititng in a dining table. I mean it COULD do that, serve as a nice spice holder, but that is not what it was designed to do.

So Demos need to show what the description says it can do and nothing more. The true shame here is that some otherwise good effects get a bad name because the videos over promise.
Message: Posted by: joyce (May 5, 2006 10:54AM)
Well said, Teevtee.. I agree with you.
Message: Posted by: Benji Bruce (May 5, 2006 11:46AM)
It seems that all of you misunderstood what I was saying. I'm saying that Jessiahs demo was to show the effect in the spectators mind. the spectator believes that the card is coming out of the box just like the spectator believes it comes out of the box in the mystery box. everyone here seems to think that I'm comparing the METHODS of mystery box and INTACT. I'm comparing the MAGICAL EFFCT of the two. his demo just expressed the EFFECT. a card appears inside the box and you take it out showing that it is the same card. I know exactly what problem everyone here is having. I didn't think the demo was good at all to sell the trick because when we buy it we are getting the METHOD. the demos purpose was to only show the effect
Message: Posted by: Jon Allen (May 5, 2006 12:17PM)
Hi BBMagic,

Do you really think the demo was on the buying page merely to show the effect and not to entice people to buy the product having seen the demo??? Exactly where on the demo did it say somethig like "Only possible in the minds of the audience"?

Do you think it would be right for me to do a demo of the self-folding note effect that made it look like I simply borrrowed a bill, laid it on my hand and went straigth into the effect?

I can't think if any other demo I have ever seen where it shows the effect the audience will take away with them as opposed to showig an honest routine or performance. The effect of 'Cut & Restored' rope is that the magicians cuts an examined piece of rope into two pieces and puts it back together again and hands it out. Can I do a demo where I actually *do* cut a piece of rope into two pieces and put it back together and hand it out?

A demo is not meant to show the method or the effect in the minds of the audience; it is to show a *real performance* of the trick with the props required.

Hopefully the new demo will show this. it will be good to finally see a review from someone who has doen it for people.
Message: Posted by: teevtee (May 5, 2006 12:52PM)
BBMagic:

The difference is that demo videos are NOT performance pieces meant to entertain lay audiences. They are SALES devices meant to show MAGICIANS what they actually get and what a method ACTUALLY does.

If you get the two confused (which you have) then I could hook myself up to a crane and shoot a video of me floating a foot off the ground... then after you see that I could sell you a 1 page manuscript on how to do the Balduci Levetation... heck, in the MIND of the audience they will THINK you floated off the ground right?

A demo video is just that, a DEMONSTRATION of the effect... start to finish, what it REALLy is as if you were there live watching it in a store. That is TOTALLY different than interpretting what the audeince may think they saw.
Message: Posted by: Jessiah (May 5, 2006 01:37PM)
I think you guys are taking this a bit too far... Buy it or don't. I can't please everyone. I am making a new demo, so maybe that will help some of your decisions... No one was ever mislead... the description of intact and the contents of the first video are a DIRECT representation of what you learn how to do. The new video will show even more, so theres nothing to complain about. Ask Lynetta, she had some great tips experimenting with a full size card appearing inside. Its up to the magician to add new handlings... I give you all the basics and a full routine (the description) and you take it from there. Including help in my forums :)

please keep this demo video talk out of here. This thread is for reviews and discussion of my new trick intact! I agree, I am excited to get some real worked reviews! The conspiracy talk is silly, the demands are ridiculous. Im just asking for you to let me work my magic ;) -Jesse Feinberg
Message: Posted by: Jon Allen (May 5, 2006 01:53PM)
[quote]
On 2006-05-05 14:37, Jessiah wrote:
The conspiracy talk is silly, the demands are ridiculous. Im just asking for you to let me work my magic ;) -Jesse Feinberg
[/quote]

Hi Jesse,

I don't have ridiculaous demands. I had three questions each requiring a yes or no and none have been answered.

1. Can you remove the card exactly as shown in the video?
2. However, if I cannot remove the card as shown in the original demo, do I get a refund?
3. Can you pull a signed card out of the box as the video showed?

I have not had a simple yes or no answer to any of these questions. As the creator, you should be able to answer such simple and direct questions that absolutely are at the heart of a decision to buy. Demanding? I don't think so.

I would appreciate a yes or no to each of the questions above. If you can't do so then people can make up there own minds.....
Message: Posted by: Jessiah (May 5, 2006 02:12PM)
I never said a signed card could be inside the box. intact creates that illusion! that's what I don't understand here. what are you trying to call me out for. And your right, forcing a card, you could put it anywhere... but if you don't know the inner workings of intact, then you cant make it appear inside a tic tac box!!!! that's what intact is!

All of the above questions have already been answered! Some by me, and some by others. I don't understand how you cant get this clear. When I released intact, it included a description and demo. Both are accurate. YES!!!!! Everything you see is possible. The original effect (what is being marketed and sold) is exactly what the description explains. The video showed me including other handling that are totally real and possible. They are explained in my forum. The instructions in intact tell you to go to my forum to register your product (with proof of purchase, quote, etc). I am not trying to show you something that is not real and then sell you. don't compare me to David Blaines levitation sequences...:) Jon, when you buy intact... you will learn exactly as the description reads. I cant be misleading anyone if that were true. The extra handling everyone is so giddy about is in my forum (or in a simple PM or email). I cant make it any more clear and easy. I am not going to specifically break down your 123 because I feel that discussion of handlings can be sensitive. I hope that my yes above answers everything, and if you read some of the other threads above, you will understand whats going on. -Jesse
Message: Posted by: Mehtas (May 5, 2006 02:37PM)
The way card was removed from the box is not possible (unless I'm missing something)

So why was it shown in the "trailer" is beyond even the Jesse supporters.

Jon has a fair point asking for a refund if the card cant be removed the way it was shown in your demo.

I've stated before that I can think of few methods to remove the card BUT, the way that card is removed in the demo is the diffrence between a knockout & [b]UN[/b]knockout.

That's why there is such a fuss about removing the card from the box. there would not have been such a big issue if that part was not shown at the first place.
Message: Posted by: Platt (May 5, 2006 02:50PM)
Let the man breath until the new video comes out. I think it's clear now: You can't reach into the box and pull out a signed card. Using methods not directly related to the gimmick, you can reach in and pull out an unsigned card.

I've been talking with Jesse. He's a nice guy and has a very nice product. He knows *** well on his new video he must not blur the lines of what can and can't be done.

One segment will show how his effect looks in reality to everyone.
Another segment might show alternate handlings. It will be made clear that if a card is being truly pulled out of the case, it is not the signed card. Personally I hope he doesn't even go there because this has nothing to do with his effect. And if for some reason the lines are blurred, I will join the masses in cursing him out. He's made his mistakes. He now knows better.

Again, let's leave him alone until the new video is posted on Monday.
Message: Posted by: ClouDsss (May 5, 2006 03:01PM)
I am just wondering despite the controversy from the PTA video which he jollywell knows the problem in misleading the buyers that you cannot use the supplied gimmick to pop the pen right thru and out the other side as shown in the demo. Since that's the case, why do the same thing again in InTact's Vid?

Jessiah:
I saw the demo and really liked the idea that the card can be INSIDE the box and that you can OPEN it and PULL OUT the card as shown in the DEMO.

I am going to buy this item FOR THAT EFFECT ALONE (PULLING OUT OF THE BOX AND PLACING EVERYTHING ON THE TABLE FOR EXAMINATION AS SEEN).

Now, if the supplied gimmick cannot achieve that, DO I GET A REFUND for MISPRESENTATION in your demo? that's wat I wanna know before I purchase it. I think this question is legitmate and have not yet been answered. Would appreciate if you can answer this.

Best regards
Message: Posted by: katty (May 5, 2006 03:12PM)
Just cann't understand why Jesse don't stand up and answer Mr.Allen's three YES or NO questions!!??
Message: Posted by: ClouDsss (May 5, 2006 03:18PM)
[quote]
On 2006-05-05 16:12, katty wrote:
Just cann't understand why Jesse don't stand up and answer Mr.Allen's three YES or NO questions!!??
[/quote]

I think he cant as that would mean refunding quite a number of people for having beem misled by the demo
Message: Posted by: Jessiah (May 5, 2006 03:40PM)
Quite a number of people???? no refund would ever be necessary here... your the only few that have ever complained. I am feeling less and less inclined to respond to these posts... so keep it up!

The video you saw was not a performance of intact. One part shows a card being removed from a tic tac box. NO, not a signed card, and it never appeared there... it was NOT A PERFORMANCE. Its a yes and no answer Jon. Yes, a real folded card can appear inside just as you saw. I will prove it in the demo! No, it will not be the same as the trailer because that was not a real performance. You never saw it appear there did you? It was meant to drive home the illusion. I didn't hook myself up to a crane, or cut out shots of me ditching gaffs to people of camera. I never even showed a pen coming out the other side of my arm (get it straight buddy!) I am trying to show what the effect is as a whole. I understand that's not what people get from it, so I am replacing it with a totally clear demo with full performance and everything. Closeup shots, and even a seperate "extras" part. I just answered all three of your questions. -Jesse
Message: Posted by: Jon Allen (May 5, 2006 03:40PM)
Hi Jesse,

You wrote:
¡§I never said a signed card could be inside the box. intact creates that illusion! that's what I don't understand here. what are you trying to call me out for. And your right, forcing a card, you could put it anywhere... but if you don't know the inner workings of intact, then you cant make it appear inside a tic tac box!!!! that's what intact is!¡¨

On your website you say, ¡§A signed selection visibly appears inside a Tic Tac Box¡¨ Now it can either realy be in there or it can appear to be in there. From a description, one cannot tell. HOWEVER, when that description appears alongside a video of a card CLEARLY coming out of the box, the potential buyer can ONLY assume the card really is in the box. So you cannot actually pull a signed card from inside the box.

(I can make a signed selection appear in a Tic Tac box. Not openly and visually but I can still do it.)


¡§When I released intact, it included a description and demo. Both are accurate. YES!!!!! Everything you see is possible. The original effect (what is being marketed and sold) is exactly what the description explains.¡¨

You have just written ¡§I never said a signed card could be inside the box. intact creates that illusion!¡¨ but the description says it appears inside the box. Both cannot be right! Either everything I see or everything I read is possible ¡V it currently cannot be both!

¡§Jon, when you buy intact... you will learn exactly as the description reads. I cant be misleading anyone if that were true.¡¨

*If* I buy Intact ļ.


¡§I am not going to specifically break down your 123 because I feel that discussion of handlings can be sensitive.¡¨

Right now, I don¡¦t think that I can pull a signed card from out of the Tic Tac box as shown in the video. I want to buy it based on being able to do so. Telling me whether it is possible to physically do so will not give away any handling issues. In fact, if you say it can be done as shown in the video, you will get a lot more sales. However, the one last question that has not been answered is whether you are willing to offer a refund if I can¡¦t.

I very much look forward to seeing the new video
Message: Posted by: magicbyswh (May 5, 2006 03:43PM)
MY suggestion is pull the present video so no one else feels mislead. Then put the new video out ASAP and get this cleared up.
Message: Posted by: teevtee (May 5, 2006 03:48PM)
Jesse does not want to answer the simple questions Jon has possed so let me:

"1. Can you remove the card exactly as shown in the video?"

There is nothing preventing you from forcing a card and having a duplicate card hidden within the Tic Tac box. If you do this then yes, you can remove it as shown. None of the benefits of this effect would apply (The card cannor bsigned and so forth) but from what I gather you could use the gimick to make it look like the box started empty and then had the folded card appear inside. This is not exactly the effect as described but might be an OK effect if you accept the limitations.

"2. However, if I cannot remove the card as shown in the original demo, do I get a refund? "

No.

"3. Can you pull a signed card out of the box as the video showed? "

Well, you COULD sign a card and then put it in a Tic Tac box, and then remove that same card just like the video...so you have to be careful about wording here... But the answer to your question is NO. You cannot have a card freely selected (or even forced), signs and then have that SAME card pulled from the box as shown in the video. To do that, which is how the description reads, you do NOTY remove the card as the video shows for that signed card is never actually in the box.

So those seems to be the true facts, make your own judgements.
Message: Posted by: magicforu (May 5, 2006 03:53PM)
Yes, Jesse pull the present video and prove that you are not using that misleading video to gain your sales.
Message: Posted by: teevtee (May 5, 2006 04:04PM)
The question I have posed several times but has never been answered is why even create this "trailer" if it shows things that either cannot be done or or not as the description reads or even has the slightest possibility of confusing or misleading people... especially after the Pen Thru Arm fiasco.

I am willing to give Jesse ALL the benefits of the doubt. I am willing to accept that he did not intentionally misead people. I am willing to accept that there is some way to alter things to create something similar to what the trailer shows. I am willing to accept that Jesse is just a nice guy trying to sort things out. I accept ALL of that. But man, it is hard to understand why this original video was made and posted in the first place and why it continues to be posted right now as we speak. The new video was said to be up today, then that turned to Monday and now we are simply hearing "Next Week". Meanwhile the confusing video plays on.

Now Jesse, you may not have intended to confuse people and to you it may not seem confusing, but judging from the reaction you are getting here you have to know that it IS confusing. So pull the current video NOW, if it is a day or a week or a month later, whatever, you can put up the proper video once you have it. But get the current thing down NOW as it is causing confustion and frustration even if you did not intend it to do so.
Message: Posted by: Jessiah (May 5, 2006 04:09PM)
Are you guys not reading what I write????????????????

I already said that I pulled the video the day after release. I wanted to provide you with a better video. I was refering to it as a trailer since day one in an earlier thread. I ALWAYS had intentions of putting a full video up. I do with all of my tricks! Expect nothing less from me guys. I never gained sales bassed on anything misleading. I would never offer refunds to intact because what you read is what you get. And soon, what you SEE is what you get. So wait for the video if you want... then base your comments... don't comment on my trailer!?!?! There are no performances to analyze.

"Right now, I don¡¦t think that I can pull a signed card from out of the Tic Tac box as shown in the video. I want to buy it based on being able to do so." -Jon Allen

Ok Jon... A signed card was NEVER shown being removed from any tic tac box. So why do you say you don't think, when YOU KNOW? A signed card cant appear inside literally, its just an illusion. Intact teaches you how to do this. Your going to love the demo because then it will clear up your thoughts. I would never give you a refund because then you would know the secret to intact and get your money back! that's not how magic works! And I made sure that you will have an accurate video to base this purchase on. So hold your horses my good man! It will be here soon. This is all a laugh... wow! -Jesse
Message: Posted by: teevtee (May 5, 2006 04:26PM)
Well to Jesse's credit it does look like the InTactDemo video is no longer on line. Jesse, you did not say this before (Atleast not that I ever saw). Regardless pulling it was a good idea.

I don't think anyone understand the difference between a "trailer" and a demo video. If you are going to put up a video make sure it just shows what the trick is and nothing else. The description clearly says that a signed card is removed from the box, so when we see a video of a card being removed from the box (in a very clear way) then even though it is not signed we assume it is a demo of what the description says. In the case of your "trailer" you were showing an effect which is DIFFERENT than the description and that is why so many people are confused and upset. I think people are extra sensetive because of Pen Thru Arm.

But you have said the real demo video is coming and you have pulled the old, confusing video of In Tact. So now all we can do is wait... I am looking forward to seeing it.
Message: Posted by: Jessiah (May 5, 2006 04:32PM)
Thank you Teevtee, you summed it up. I should never do a trailer... so I noted that for the future, and pulled the current one the day after release. I did say that before. People (not you) have not been really reading what I have said. Hank's been asking for the new video too, so its coming soon!!!!!!! Im rushing!!!!

I think people are extra sensitive too... but I don't care. Move past that. Understand that intact is a cool new trick. Better than the mystery box and deception box in many ways! that's my opinion, and your entitled to yours. Lets just keep THAT the main focus of this review thread. Enough is enough! After Teevtee's response, and a PM to Jon, I am done discussing these specifics anymore. I stand by my products... I have nothing to cheat you into. -Jesse
Message: Posted by: Cameron Francis (May 5, 2006 06:36PM)
This is hysterical. Guys if you read the review carefully, and read between the lines a little, you'd understand exactly what can and cannot be done with this effect. I don't know Jesse's handling but I think I know what the gimmick might be. Based on that, it's very easy to figure out what can be accomplished with Jesse's effect.

It sounds great. Like I said before, it's the appearance that makes the trick. Taking the card out of the box... who cares? The spectators will think you took it out of the box and that's all that matters.
Message: Posted by: teevtee (May 5, 2006 06:38PM)
Jesse:

I truly think the best thing you can do at this point is simply get that demo video completed when you can and post it. Allow that to speak for you.

People are upset and confused and what not but everything than can be said has been said. Next week your video will either get people excited and sell a lot of tricks, or it will not get people excited. Either way you will have done what you can and will be able to hold your head up. Just let things play at at this point and it is all cool.
Message: Posted by: Cameron Francis (May 5, 2006 06:40PM)
I'm not confused at all. I think this is going to be exactly what I think it is. And that's cool because it's a great idea.
Message: Posted by: Jessiah (May 5, 2006 06:58PM)
Yeah, thanks cfrancis... I agree with you 100%. everyone should listen to you. I appreciate your understanding... this was what I was looking for as far as reaction obviously... but the new video will hopefully further that. enough said. sorry if I posted to many times. I will talk to you guys after the video. peace -Jesse
Message: Posted by: james-harrington (May 5, 2006 11:27PM)
This is crazy!

It's been established that WHAT WAS IN THE VIDEO CAN BE DONE (without a signature BUT THERE WAS NO SIGNATURE IN THE VIDEO)

Having performed the effect without the signature as per the demo vid, the reactions I received were excellent, I would recommend the effect to anyone.

Don't you think we're all being a little hard on Jesse? I've read through all the posts and it's as though I've read the same 5 posts OVER AND OVER AGAIN!

No doubt it will continue which is a shame because it's an excellent effect and certainly amazes audiences.

James
Message: Posted by: joseph (May 6, 2006 06:30AM)
Agreed....Let's just wait for the demo, and post any responses afterwards... :) ..
Message: Posted by: mgshn (May 6, 2006 08:40AM)
While we're waiting, I have another question, unrelated to if this is a clever gimmick that makes it appear that real magic happens or actually something that transcends the laws of reality as we know it.

I'm wondering about the reset time and effort. Is it on the level of the already mentioned Mystery Box that can be done in a few seconds? Does it take a quick trip to the restroom or at a minimum being able to turn away for more than a second or two? Or, does it necessitate a trip home and several minutes at a workbench to get things back to where it can be performed again.

Thanks in advance,

Bob
Message: Posted by: Jessiah (May 6, 2006 10:57AM)
Its basically as easy as picking up the tic tac box, putting the mints back inside, and putting the top on. The tic tac box is then ready to go... you can carry it around in your pocket and do this all day. I spent all the time on the workbench so you don't have to :)
Message: Posted by: ClouDsss (May 7, 2006 05:49AM)
Any new demo yet?
Message: Posted by: magicforu (May 7, 2006 06:10AM)
Jesse said he will put it on Monday.
Message: Posted by: Jessiah (May 7, 2006 08:05PM)
Just finished 2 minutes ago. looks perfect! I sent it to Hank to put up at magicfact.com, it should be up monday (hit refresh). My site will have it up by tuesday.

I covered all the bases. no cuts, no weird effects. A full performance, closeup shot, and a shot of an extra handling (secrets available on my forum).

If you have any specific questions about what intact can/cant do or if you need help, don't hesitate to contact me (PM or email). Thanks for your patience everyone, enjoy the demo! -Jesse Feinberg
Message: Posted by: bosque (May 7, 2006 08:07PM)
I received "Intact" a couple of days ago, and I have to say that I'm sold. The two people I've shown this too were speechless. This one is a keeper. I won't dwell on the past, but I will say that, for whatever reason, I was less than satisfied with Jesse's Pen cap effect. Could have just been me, I don't know. This trick, however, is a completely different animal. Easy to reproduce, sturdy, and incredibly visual. I use "Kennedy's Mystery Box", but have prefered using "Astonishmints" because of its everyday appearance. This new effect cranks up the magical moment into high gear with the flash appearace of the card ( I've constructed one to be done with a dollar bill as well- just show the Tic-Tac container with 1 mint left in it, then "BOOM" , a dollar materializes). You can customize your own version of this trick very easily and apply the thinking to other tricks. I'm loving this one. Thank you Jesse; great job. Sorry you've caught some flak here at the Café. Try to ignore it. You've hit a home run.
--- Steve Bosque
Message: Posted by: teevtee (May 7, 2006 08:21PM)
Looking forward to the demo, thanks for getting it up quickly.
Message: Posted by: sabitu (May 7, 2006 10:12PM)
I have performed Intact for a couple different people since receiving it and it got great reactions both times. I love the fact that the appearance of the card inside the Tic Tac box is so visual. Bosque, I like your idea of having a dollar bill appear instead of a playing card. I do a lot of tricks with money and this would be right up my alley.
Message: Posted by: bosque (May 8, 2006 12:12AM)
Sabitu-
Glad you like the idea of having a dollar bill appear. Sometimes you need a trick you can do quickly. With the dollar set-up,I don't need to have them slect a card, sign it, and all that; I just rattle the single Tic-Tac around in the "empty" container, allow the spectators to get a good look see, and patter about the container being a real money-maker. "All I need to do is shake my money-maker and "Presto", a dollar magically appears." I dump the folded bill out and allow them to inspect it, the container, and the Tic-Tac, if they so desire.
--- Steve Bosque
Message: Posted by: Jessiah (May 8, 2006 12:30AM)
Demo link (youtube): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlSIgBL3ess

Im so glad you are enjoying intact guys. Please sign up for my forum. I would love to have you post some handling threads for other owners! Its so easy to create new 5 minute routines for your act... "Shake my money maker" is a GREAT idea! Catchy!
Message: Posted by: truthteller (May 8, 2006 12:57AM)
If I am not mistaken, the principle you are using was published in an old Magiciana by Charlie Miller and has been explored both by Roy Benson and, specifically with Tic Tac boxes, by Michael Ammar.

Just for the historical record,

Brad
Message: Posted by: walking_liberty (May 8, 2006 01:00AM)
Looks really good Jesse...Nice work!
Message: Posted by: ClouDsss (May 8, 2006 03:15AM)
Now that's what I call a demo.

Nice effect there!
Message: Posted by: Boat (May 8, 2006 08:17AM)
Hey Brad

Any idea where Michael Ammar explored the Tick Tack boxes. Like to check that out.

Thanks,

Al
Message: Posted by: tdowell2007 (May 8, 2006 09:14AM)
Nice demo and nice effect Jesse,
I might have to buy this!
Tony
Message: Posted by: Platt (May 8, 2006 09:44AM)
The demo looks great. You do it well. I can't wait for mine to arrive.

Now, with all the controversy surrounding your videos, why put that last bit on there? It really makes me question your motives. I'm disappointed in you, man. The last part of the video confuses the viewer as to technically, what can be done. You're mixing effects without pointing to that fact. And to me, that's unfair and deceptive (in a bad way). Do you really not see how you could be deceiving people, or at the very least confusing them? You must title it with: "Unsigned version." Otherwise you're confusing me.
The title you put up about the forum clears up absolutely nothing.

Really...why include that last clip without making it completely clear this is a different effect?
Sorry Jesse, but I think I know why.
Message: Posted by: jimesw (May 8, 2006 09:45AM)
Nice demo. Very clear.
Message: Posted by: teevtee (May 8, 2006 10:09AM)
Thsi demo is certainly better than the first and I think it offers a fair presentation of what the effect looks like. However like Platt said I think the last bit will continue to confuse people who have not followed this enitre saga.

I look forward to more reviews of the actual effect once people get the trick in hand.
Message: Posted by: sabitu (May 8, 2006 10:45AM)
Wow Jesse, you have a very smooth handling. This demo is going to be a good guide to help me improve my handling of the effect. On another note, having the dollar bill appear inside is a very cool impromptu type effect. I'll probably start carrying my Tic Tac box around even if I don't have any cards just to do the dollar bill version.
Message: Posted by: Jon Allen (May 8, 2006 11:21AM)
Well the demo is much better than the first attempt. I think there's a reason the first bit looked clean...... I would have gone with a 1WD myself. I did laugh at the elbow movement with the "pass". I'm assuming all that was to save the effort?

Apart form the set up, it does igve abetter view of the effect and what the dump out really looks like.
Message: Posted by: ClouDsss (May 8, 2006 12:45PM)
[quote]
On 2006-05-08 11:09, teevtee wrote:


Thsi demo is certainly better than the first and I think it offers a fair presentation of what the effect looks like. However like Platt said I think the last bit will continue to confuse people who have not followed this enitre saga.

I look forward to more reviews of the actual effect once people get the trick in hand.


[/quote]

I think what jessiah is trying to do about the last bit is that its possible if the card is not signed and that the tic tac box cannot be left on the table for examination. I somehow felt that its not misleading here unlike the first 'trailer' where he places the box and everything on the table.
Message: Posted by: teevtee (May 8, 2006 01:55PM)
Well I aree and I do NOT think Jesse is intentionally misleading anyone here, nor do I think it really is misleading. I am just pointing out that the last bit could continue to cause some confusion.

The new demo is a good representation of the effect.

I am still looking forward to more actual hands on reviews and again, thanks to Jesse for getting the new demo up in a timely manner.
Message: Posted by: Jessiah (May 8, 2006 04:07PM)
Thank you very much guys! Im glad that you all like it... I agree that it represents intact VERY well without leaving any major questions. I was having trouble deciding how to do the last bit... the part where an unsigned card can appear inside the box (literally). People who aren't on the Café, or in this thread might not understand the difference. I tried to keep it seperate from the full performance. I also put some text up saying that there are "extra" ideas included... and I mention the secret forum to point owners in the right direction. That was the only major issue for me. But my friend and I did a few shots of it and it all came out great. Thanks to Dan Dipace for filming intact. He did a great job!!! -Jesse
Message: Posted by: johnnymystic (May 8, 2006 04:34PM)
Jesse, great job on the demo man!

That bar brings back memories, lol! Is it still stocked???

johnny
Message: Posted by: Cameron Francis (May 8, 2006 04:35PM)
Nice video. Looks like a great trick.
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (May 8, 2006 06:23PM)
Listn, after all the bs... you must realize, for your audiences, the CLIMAX is when the card appears in the container. Then the finish just closes it. How you dump it out, or if it is signed really doesn't matter.
Message: Posted by: johnnymystic (May 8, 2006 07:10PM)
Couldn't agree more Pete. :)

johnny
Message: Posted by: oombob (May 8, 2006 08:46PM)
It's hard work pleasing a committee.

Jesse... nice one brotha!
Message: Posted by: APC (May 8, 2006 08:54PM)
Hey Jesse, I will try to get in on saturday! Hope to see it then!I think it looks great....
Message: Posted by: Cameron Francis (May 8, 2006 09:52PM)
100% agree with you, Pete. I've been trying to say that all along.
Message: Posted by: johnnymystic (May 9, 2006 04:13PM)
So other than Jesse, has ANYBODY performed this in the real world yet and of so how 'bout a reveiw?

johnny
Message: Posted by: Platt (May 10, 2006 01:57PM)
Got mine. Very very nice. The flash appearance of the card is really a very beautiful and unique thing. Amazingly the appearance is all self-contained. And It does look impossible. To me that's the strongest part of the effect. The clean up, IMHO, is a bit clunky and messy. The good thing is that there is very little heat on the hands. I think this effect would be even stronger if you completely removed the sticker from the box. The sticker could lead people to a possible, although incorrect solution. You really don't need it.

I still believe the last bit on the demo is extremlely unfair and deceptive. I like Jesse and perhaps I was a bit harsh in my last posting. But in regards to the described effect, I can assure any potential buyers of one thing: There's absolutely no reason to show somebody reaching in and pulling a card out of the box.

Supering "alternate handlings available" does not make this clear.
Message: Posted by: kamus (May 10, 2006 02:40PM)
Platt, are you saying that the "alternate handlings" are unworkable? Or is it the fact that it is the demo viewer may come away with the erroneous impression that the card can simply be removed from the box? What exactly is deceptive?

Thanks
Message: Posted by: Platt (May 10, 2006 05:44PM)
It's the fact that the demo may lead the viewer to believe that the described effect, a signed card appearing in tic tac box, can be pulled out of the box in that manner. If the super said "unsigned card version available" it would all be fair.

Normally this wouldn't be a big issue. With the history of Jesses videos and reactions to his videos and even recent "trailer," I just can't believe he'd somehow overlook the fact that the last shot could be misleading. I'm a big fan of using the tic tac box for magic. This gimmick is no exception.
Message: Posted by: Jessiah (May 10, 2006 08:22PM)
I really don't think people will have a hard time figuring out additional handlings... and with my secret forum in place, it shouldn't be a problem. I hear what your saying though Platt. We talked about this before... the video will maybe confuse a new owner of intact at first... but people will be excited to learn it and create their own "extra ideas". Maybe I could label the last section differently, or take it out, but I really like the demo the way it is. Its accurate, and covers everything. But I understand you saying its not even necessary. Intact is perfect the way it is! Ill keep you updated and of course, I'l make sure to keep it real... :) -Jesse
Message: Posted by: Cameron Francis (May 10, 2006 09:01PM)
I don't really agree that the last part of the demo is misleading. The super over the footage of the fingers taking the card out of the box seems pretty clear to me. If it is at all misleading, it's a minor point.

I will be purchasing this when funds allow :)
Message: Posted by: Jessiah (May 10, 2006 09:09PM)
Yeah, its more of "is it confusing" rather than "misleading". The demo is totally accurate, everything is easy to do in a normal performance. I just want to make sure that people feel they understand what they are buying in the fairest way. Im really excited about the new demo, its kind of a new style for me... a long performance shot... most of my effects are centered around one visual stunner. Intact is the first where you could easily milk 5+ minutes doing the trick with patter.

Let me know when you get it, and we can get you up on the forum (that goes for everyone). The forum is a contant project, the more help the better!!! -Jesse
Message: Posted by: Cody S. Fisher (May 10, 2006 09:56PM)
I am now confused even more by the "new" video. The card that is signed is signed and the initials actually change places with the center pip of the five of clubs?

If you watch the video when the first five of clubs is signed...the signature is above the "upside down" center club pip...yet when the card is revealed is above the "right side up" center club pip.

What is up what with that? The card that is revealed is obviously not the same card that was initially signed. Am I missing something? Just curious...

Cody S. Fisher
Message: Posted by: ClouDsss (May 10, 2006 10:19PM)
Thanks Cody for pointing that out. I watched the demo again and noticed that the card which Jessiah signed and the card that appeared in the box are NOT the same card.

May I know why? Does this mean that we cannot do a signed card to tic tac box? once again, is the demo misleading?? Please Jessiah, cant you just show how the effect would be like instead of trying to confuse potential buyers by showing the potential? I know that you can increase sales this way, but its really NOT ethical!!

I can just sell a normal Card to Wallet but show it in a very impossible method and then tell my customers after they had bought it that that effect is possible with some thought. If that's the case, my customers might as well just think of their own effect? Why buy something that is not shown in the demo?
Message: Posted by: CoinMan21 (May 10, 2006 10:37PM)
Maybe Jesse teaches a way of accquiring a dupe signature using timed misdirection. Genius!

Either that or only the magician can sign the card.
Message: Posted by: ClouDsss (May 10, 2006 10:51PM)
Or maybe he is showing that you can pull the spectator's signature and plant it in another card? :lol:

If the magician is the only one who can sign, then wats the point? I mean, is that really called SIGNED card to impossible location?
Message: Posted by: Cody S. Fisher (May 10, 2006 10:54PM)
I don't think that only the magician can sign the card...you can have a spectator sign it. I think the only thing about the video that was misleading was the control and fold of the card...In the video the card that was signed was not controld or folded...it's obviously not the same signed card...it was switched for a dupe of camera. Not sure why you would do the demo this way as this is not what you would do in a real life performing situation.

Having said that...I still think the visual appearance of the card is pretty darn neat and would go over GREAT with a lay audience. I just wish the video was not more accurate...

Jessie, as a creator of magic myself...some advice for you my friend...stop trying so hard to fool magicians with your edited demos...as long as your products are good quality and you offer excellent customer service you will go a long way as a magical creator. In this business your reputation is everything...remember the golden rule my friend...

I hope this helps,
Cody S. Fisher
Message: Posted by: ClouDsss (May 10, 2006 10:58PM)
Cody:

You are right, Jessiah may have left out the control of the card and just did a dupe for the camera. But then, if that's the case, I can just do a Mercu** Fo** and have the card pop out of a tic tac box, pen card, etc. Heck, I can even use the bill burner from Jaxon and instead of a bill, use a card. Why do I need to purchase Intact? The fact that the demo showed it to be so CLEANED caught my attention and I introduced my friend to purchase it.

Now when he gets it, I honestly do not know how to explain it to him other than the fact that I was 'FOOLED' by the Demo too.

It could also be the fact that Jessiah is not confident of his sleights and hence decided to omit it. If that's the case, has this effect even been performed by him in real life situations? Or is it just an idea? Not trying to attach Jessiah here, but just annoyed at yet another PTA like demo.

Was fooled once and did not learn from my mistake. Got fooled again. Not going for a third time anymore
Message: Posted by: CoinMan21 (May 10, 2006 11:06PM)
Thought he did control with a classic p***.
Message: Posted by: ClouDsss (May 10, 2006 11:09PM)
Did he? I thought it was more for the camera to see some action.

If that's the case, why was there a dupe in the box?
Message: Posted by: Cody S. Fisher (May 10, 2006 11:12PM)
Why would you control the card that doesn't end up folded...no reason to. The card that was signed was not controled or folded...

I think that it was only made to look like there was a control...otherwise it would be even "cleaner" than we are all complaining about.

Having said that...I can see how this would be great for a lay audience...very visual! I agree with Pete...the climax is when the card appears in the box...that part of the effect is pretty neat. This is the part that laymen will remember. Just don't understand why the video was rigged again?

Cody S. Fisher
Message: Posted by: teevtee (May 10, 2006 11:14PM)
Wow, this is what I have been saying for a long time and yet people jumped on me for it.

I have told Jesse both onb the board and in provate that the best and really ONLY way to earn a reputation and the trust of his potential customers is to be 100% honest and truthful with his demos. For whatever reason (which I will not speculate on) Jesse does not seem able to simply present us with a 100% truthful performace of the trick.

Teh current demo is certainly much better than the first, and I think overall gives an OK idea of the trick, and yet there are those sticking points. The trick can not ever be shown quite as cleanly as the demo, not because of anything to do with InTact but rather because he is not showing the control and fold of the card, in fact the "random choice" of the card is quite funny to watch. What is most perplexing is that this part of the trick does not even involve what Jesse is selling, so why leave it out?

My best guess is that Jesse assumed that because it was not really part of the trick he could skip it and make things cleaner for the video or quicker or whatever. But by skipping that part is again is a little misleading. Then you tack that odd ending on and it gets more confusing. You go through the entire demo doing nothing but showing a SIGNED card, then at the end you clearly show a card (unsigned now) being removed from the case in such a way that a signed card cannot. But the average guy is probably so used to seeing the signed card that the fact that it is now unsigend goes past him. I am not even suggesting intentional deception here but it is a very odd thing to do.

The shame here is that Jesse is losing business because people do not trust this type of video. Set up a camera, get a REAL spectator and perform the trick for them, start to finish, 100% real life... then shut off the camera... THAT'S YOUR DEMO. Period, it should be NOTHING else.

I think the real value of InTact is that you can force a card and then do a card to impossible location in the box... the value of this prop is the visual appearance. Sure, you could just stuff a card into a box and force it but you would not have the flash appearance. I wish the trick was marketed this way.
Message: Posted by: ClouDsss (May 10, 2006 11:18PM)
Maybe Jessiah could explain why he enjoys rigging his demos instead of showing the real stuff? No matter how he argues it, a rigged demo is a rigged demo and that is MISLEADING by itself. Why argue that you have no intention to mislead anyone but insist on using a rig video? The first one was a 'Trailer' as argued, so this Rigged demo is the demo? or is there another demo coming up?

Furthermore, he wasnt even paying close attention to rigging his demo properly.

Use diamonds next time Jessiah :) Learn from mistakes.
Message: Posted by: Platt (May 10, 2006 11:31PM)
I didn't see a discrepancy. It seemed the card was signed on the top right portion of the card and was in the same position afterwards. Maybe I missed it.
Message: Posted by: ClouDsss (May 10, 2006 11:44PM)
Platt:

Look at the centre pip. It was upside down on the card he signed. But when he revealed the card from the box, it was upright with the signature there.
Message: Posted by: Platt (May 11, 2006 12:05AM)
Aha. Now I see. You people have good eyes. Embarrasing? Absolutely. But far less of an issue than that last shot to me. Jesse I appreciate you addressing that the title is confusing. I guess since I'm working heavily with a tic tac box on my upcoming dvd, I'm a little more sensitive to you playing fair.

Jesse, you've got a winner here. I'm very happy with it. It was just like you described to me. And as I've said in the past, it seems you're a good guy who means well. It's time to cut the crap.
Message: Posted by: ClouDsss (May 11, 2006 12:12AM)
[quote]
On 2006-05-05 17:09, Jessiah wrote:

...Ok Jon... A signed card was [b]NEVER[/b] shown being removed from any tic tac box. So why do you say you don't think, when YOU KNOW? A signed card cant appear inside literally, its just an [b]illusion[/b]. Intact teaches you how to do this.

.....And I made sure that you will have an [b]accurate[/b] video to base this purchase on. So hold your horses my good man! It will be here soon. This is all a laugh... wow! -Jesse
[/quote]

So why show a Signed card presentation? You sure about the accurate new demo which I can base my purchase on?

Like I said, Use diamonds next time when pulling off such a stunt.


[quote]
On 2006-05-10 22:09, Jessiah wrote:
...The demo is totally accurate, everything is easy to do in a normal performance. I just want to make sure that people feel they understand what they are buying in the fairest way....
[/quote]


Accurate again? Maybe you would like to define the word accurate in your dictionary as I found mine to give the wrong type of description. Well, I guess if Cody dint notice the pip difference, I would have deemed it to be accurate. Nice try tho.

My sincere apologises to Jessiah that I sounded offensive here. This is due to the fact that I based my introduction and my friend too, on their purchase of this effect on the DEMO and the CLEAN handling seen.

I guess I will live pass this tho as time goes by. Just another misled product for me.
Message: Posted by: Jessiah (May 11, 2006 01:19AM)
Simply put, I didn't want to have to do the m fold a bunch of times when I was making this demo. As you remember, I was in a hurry to finish... So I used a dup signed card. I am not afraid to admit it. Intact doesn't require a duplicate card, but I just did the demo that way. This was the best take I had, and I used it. I was more concerned about not making any cuts in the video, and doing all of the routine right. I never even realized the discrepency! I hope you don't think this is supposed to trick you, it was just meant to make the filming easier for me. Very good eye Cody!

And an fyi, when I perform intact, I usually just force a card... so I guess I was also in that mind state. that's the thing... if I were trying to trick you with the fake signed card, then I would have noticed the discrepency. I only used this take because I didn't flash any of the gaffs in it... So I hope you all understand. Thanks -Jesse
Message: Posted by: tdowell (May 11, 2006 01:29AM)
I almost bought Pen thru Arm after seeing the video. Then learned it was misrepresented.

Now comes Intact and hear about potential issues with the video again. I wait.

Finally a new video supposedly guaranteed to be the real thing. The new video made me reconsider and I was just about to drop the cash because it was so clean and smooth. No pass, control, or m fold. Just looked awesome. I'm sold.

Now I see that once again we don't get a real demonstration. Wow.

Jesse, I promise I will never purchase one of your products ever bud...I simply can't trust your descriptions or video representations.

This is really poor form.

:hmmm:
Message: Posted by: ClouDsss (May 11, 2006 01:47AM)
[quote]
On 2006-05-11 02:29, tdowell wrote:

Finally a new video supposedly guaranteed to be the real thing. The new video made me reconsider and I was just about to drop the cash because it was so clean and smooth. No pass, control, or m fold. Just looked awesome. I'm sold.

:hmmm:
[/quote]

I had the same thoughts too. No pass, control, or m fold. Just looked awesome.

ANd I wouldnt have even noticed it if Cody did not point it out to us.
Message: Posted by: afoi (May 11, 2006 01:53AM)
The demo video is very very misleading, and looks like a "lie" to me. You SHOULD NOT use a signed card AT ALL to perform. Like I record an effect, doing a color change with a SIGNED card. the card changed and the signature remain... its too magical until you realized there is a dup card involved. Too bad, you lost another customer...
Message: Posted by: ClouDsss (May 11, 2006 01:57AM)
[quote]
On 2006-05-11 02:19, Jessiah wrote:
...And an fyi, when I perform intact, I usually just force a card... so I guess I was also in that mind state. that's the thing... if I were trying to trick you with the fake signed card, then I would have noticed the discrepency. I only used this take because I didn't flash any of the gaffs in it... So I hope you all understand. Thanks -Jesse
[/quote]

Just wondering,

If you were doing the Force a card version, then why did you even bothered to sign the card?

To me, that's very misleading. You are practically telling your customers that the card can be signed and appear in the box. Of course, you failed to mention that a dupe would be required and that the spec cant sign the card if that's the case.

To me, the main selling point of Intact is the card visually appearing in the tic tac box. So it would have been more honest if you did not sign the card. Who cares if a dupe is needed anot as the visual aspect is great, like bill burner.

But by signing, and with no slieghts involved at all, you are practically implying that a signed card (by the spec) can appear in the box. Which is MISLEADING.

If you look at page 5 of this thread, I actually praised your new demo and was Floored by it. Only to realised that its yet another misleading demo.

Could you kindly explain why you showed a demo of a signed card version when you mentioned that you cannot do a signed card to box in a previous thread? And that that is just an illusion?
Message: Posted by: CoinMan21 (May 11, 2006 04:51AM)
[quote]I only used this take because I didn't flash any of the gaffs in it... [/quote]

If its so easy to flash, maybe its better passed off as a tv effect. Isn't this supposed to be an easy effect to perform?

If a demo is made and you didn't want to go through the trouble of doing m folds, you downright cheating potential customers. Not all magicians know that this effect requires a control or sleights. New magicians would think that your effect is as clean as the demo. That is in fact no true.

No doubt this effect has potential but your integrity or the lack of it has made you lose one more customer.
Message: Posted by: Jon Allen (May 11, 2006 05:54AM)
I didn't notice the discrepency but I thought the fake pass was blatant and the lack of folding action would lead everyone to know a dupe was used. This is what would confuse people - forcing a card while saying no force is necessary.

I agree with Cody with regards making demo videos. Some tricks ar easy to replicate with enough viewings. The method is hidden with cuts, fade outs and riggings. However, with Intact, there is no need to hide what you need to do with the card. So what if people see your pass, your MF or your dumping of the card. All this should be obvious anyway. What people will buy is the effect of the card in the box. They'll buy it for that; but now they won't because of the all the faking. Jesse, when it comes to future videos, just do the trick. People can't edit, fake or rig in real life; they want to see what *they* can do, not what you can do.

I do disagree with Pete & Cody when it comes to the climax being the card appearing in the box so the dumping out doesn't matter. Even if people assume the card in the box is theirs, a fumbled, rushed or unnatural taking out of the card will catch the eye of people and rasie suspicion. A clean and natural taking out of the card will simply emphasise the fact the card is theirs. What people see is *a* card in an impossible place.

They'll think:
"That can't be my card.... can it?"

Then think:
a) "He's taking it out.... OMG that IS my card!"
b) "He's taking it.... WTF was that???"

I prefer to go with a).
Message: Posted by: Cameron Francis (May 11, 2006 09:54AM)
I know I keep playing devil's advocate, here, but did anyone think they were purchasing a clean control? Come on. When you buy an effect, most of the time the instructions give you a very basic control or simply say "control the card via your favorite method." We know what is required to do this effect. I didn't see Jesse do it in the demo, but then again, I wasn't looking for it. I just assumed he was doing a one handed MCF down by his side.

This reminds me of the David Forrest Trap-ease discussion. I purchased the effect and was really hoping his control would be in the instructions. It wasn't and I was a little disappointed. But I got over it because I bought the effect Trap-ease, not David's clean control.

I do agree with Jon that the dumping of the card looks a little rushed in the demo. However, I suspect you could make it look better using a slightly different method.
Message: Posted by: ClouDsss (May 11, 2006 10:27AM)
[quote]
On 2006-05-11 10:54, cfrancis wrote:
I know I keep playing devil's advocate, here, but did anyone think they were purchasing a clean control? Come on. When you buy an effect, most of the time the instructions give you a very basic control or simply say "control the card via your favorite method." We know what is required to do this effect. I didn't see Jesse do it in the demo, but then again, I wasn't looking for it. I just assumed he was doing a one handed MCF down by his side.

[/quote]

But then again, at least you know what you are buying. In the demo, he did a signed card to tic tac box. Jessiah mentioned that this was not possible with Intact as the card being in the box is an illusion.

Oh, not to mention that the 'pass' kinda movement was there for?? he might as well just show that with no movement the card is in the tic tac box. Wouldnt that be even cleaner? Why bother to pretend he is doing a move? Maybe he knows that if the handling was too clean, its misleading so he had to add that. Now if he felt it that way too, why leave out other stuff?

Come'on, nobody expects a totally clean handling. But at least, we expect to see a realistic demo of something that we have to be doing when we purchase the effect. Honestly, not everyone performs in front of the camera only.

He might as well just open the tic tac box and pull out the card since he is at it. Later, he can always argue that "Hey! don expect a totally clean handling." Wouldnt that be fine with you too cfrancis?
Message: Posted by: Jessiah (May 11, 2006 10:35AM)
I thought that buy using a dup it would make the demo easier to make. that's ALL it was. I guess your right in saying that I could just use an unsigned card. I am probably going to change the demo again so that I can address this issue and the issue that me and Platt were talking about with the last section. That way people can't complain about some miracle control not being included. But that brings me to my next point.

I was trying to stay true to the effect, so I faked a signed card to make sure the demo was perfect. This was only to avoid doing the m-fold a bunch, call me lazy, don't call me a swindler! But why would anyone think that to do this effect with a signed card you wouldn't have to control, pass, m-fold, etc... In the instructions I explain many ways to fold a card... some super simple. So that process is IMMEDIATLY covered when you read the instructions... How else would a signed card be used?

Long story short... Im going to have to film this again with a regular unsigned card... That makes sense! I will put text in the video explaining that this effect CAN be done with a signed card. That will make this right. -Jesse
Message: Posted by: jimesw (May 11, 2006 10:42AM)
Maybe do it using the intercessor?
Message: Posted by: fib (May 11, 2006 10:43AM)
I'm reading these posts and really can't believe what a bunch of babies some of you guys are. Jesse, you shouldn't have to be so defensive. You won't get respect if you respond to every comment -- though some of the comments seem legitimate in their criticism. The thing that bugs me the most is that, due to the Jaxon principle and one or two other age-old moves, you can show the card appearing and take that card out, open it up and show the signature. Isn't that what everybody wants? Or is the question: is that what everybody wants to pay for?
fib
Message: Posted by: ClouDsss (May 11, 2006 10:43AM)
Thanks for understanding Jessiah.

Like I and many others have mentioned, the true beauty of Intact is the visual appearance of the card inside the box. That alone would render you sales. No need to use a signed card and hence give the wrong impression.

I think the main thing when people view a demo, they believe that that is the actual effect they are getting, meaning the required actions, etc. Whatever changes can of course like you mentioned, be added in the future to make it better.

And honestly, when someone sees a totally clean demo, magicians espescially, they do get floored as those are the kind of effects which the majority of us are trying to achieve. To perform 'real' magic with no unnecessary movements. Hence, this outburst with the totally clean handling when in actual it is not.

Cheers and peace out.
Message: Posted by: teevtee (May 11, 2006 11:17AM)
>>> But why would anyone think that to do this effect with a signed card you wouldn't have to control, pass, m-fold, etc...<<<<

BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT YOU SHOWED THEM!!!!

Remember, not EVERYONE watching the demo is an experienced magician. Hank Lees site is VERY well known to hobbyists and even beginners. They visit, they see a "hot" new item that says it is very easy to perform. They watch the demo and it looks great... they buy it. Then they realizie that they need to to all these moves, controls, folds etc. These will be WAY beyond what they can do and certainly to "easy to perform". So those peopel were just misled to buy something. That is why THEY would not assume you needed to do a pass etc.

But what about experienced magicians... surley THEY would KNOW thesemoves were required...right?

Well yes and no. You see magicians are a gullable bunch when it comes to effects. We are all searching for the next great thing, that white whale which probably is not actually out there but you never know. So They watch this demo and they read this thread and they know Jesse's past experience with deceptive videos. Because of this Jesse swears up and down that what you see in the video is what you get. MAN! They think, this must be something REALLY new!!!! It looks so clean, there does not seem to be any pass, or one so sublte that it fools people even looking for it. Now sure, deep down these magicians may know that it looks too good to be true, but then there is that video and again Jesse says you get what you see.

So THEY buy it and again they are misled and disapointed.... the video AGAIN shows something that simply cannot really be done as presented in the video. And yet a few people will STILL defend this as an OK busniness practice.

Jesse so far is 0 for 3 on his demo videos here. Pen Thru Arm, InTact video #1, InTact video #2, each one shows things that simply are not possible with the provided gaffs.

For the life of me I don't understand why you are having such issues with this demo stuff Jesse. It has been said many time, just film yourself doing the *** trick 100% EXACTLY the way it is really done. If you are not good at the M-Fold or what have you then get someone else to perform it. If you don't like that presentation then show it with a forced card and ONLY a forced card. The REAL trick here is that you force a card, show it visually appear in the box, and then NATURALLY and honestly remove it. The signed card stuff is much weaker. The dump out looks rushed, odd and forced and it is not "easy to perform" as the copy reads. Stop trying to do too much and be all things to all people and you will be much better off.
Message: Posted by: Jessiah (May 11, 2006 11:33AM)
Thank you for your kind words ClouDsss. I hear you guys loud and clear. Im sorry for any issues, but my intentions are to make the best demos I can. I will make the changes... I respond to some of these comments because they are valid. Hearing your concerns for the demo will ultimitely help me in the future. So I appreciate the attention to details some of you offer. Thanks for that!
Message: Posted by: truthteller (May 11, 2006 11:36AM)
The bigger problem is we have a created the desire - the need - for people to want to become "someone" in the magic world. Whether it is for financial gain, or personal reward, at no time have more people been clamoring to make a name of themselves among magicians for magicians. Rather than take the traditional path of spending years building a career supported by original and well-thought-out material, we have people rushing ideas to market and selling anything they can get their hands on. As a friend of mine pointed out in his marketing book, simply taking out enough ad space will lead to minor celebrity status.

Now, if these ideas were always rock solid, there would be little problem. But so many of these ideas should never be put out. I have seen one new product that is a re-release of an idea originally sold in 1919. I have seen books filled with ideas taken from other performers and offered with minor variations. And, I have seen products misrepresented - deceptive videos and even lies - like books with copyright dates backdated in order to falsely establish the paternity of ideas.

Now, I cannot speak for or against Jessie, but I feel these comments apply to the magic community at large. Again, they are not accusing Jessie, but are observations based on patterns of behavior exhibited throughout.

I cannot help but feel that if you need to prop up your product with video editing or lies, then that should be your wake up call that perhaps you know your product is not up to snuff. If you are afraid to do due diligence and find out if your idea might be 100 years old, then you probably know that it is not revolutionary. And if you find yourself saying, 'I did not know that was in print' (especially in magazines you subscribe to) then you probably spend more time studying, practicing, and performing and less time marketing.

Just an observation on the state of the art.
Message: Posted by: katty (May 11, 2006 02:55PM)
[quote]
On 2006-05-11 02:29, tdowell wrote:
I almost bought Pen thru Arm after seeing the video. Then learned it was misrepresented.

Now comes Intact and hear about potential issues with the video again. I wait.

Finally a new video supposedly guaranteed to be the real thing. The new video made me reconsider and I was just about to drop the cash because it was so clean and smooth. No pass, control, or m fold. Just looked awesome. I'm sold.

Now I see that once again we don't get a real demonstration. Wow.

Jesse, I promise I will never purchase one of your products ever bud...I simply can't trust your descriptions or video representations.

This is really poor form.

:hmmm:

[/quote]

Just received Intact I found it need many sleight to make it look good as on the new video demo. I still think his new video is use to improve his sale not purely refect what the trick is.

For me I am disappointed...Just like tdowell I promise myself I will never purchase any of Jesse's product again.
Message: Posted by: mgshn (May 11, 2006 04:24PM)
A few hundred messages ago somebody asked for a review; I though I would actually post one. It's kind of like the Mystery Box but easier to carry and a lot more familiar looking. The handling is a bit more difficult than the Mystery Box (you need average card skills), and the effect about the same. (A card is signed and lost. Then a card appears in an impossible location. The card is subsequently shown to be the signed card.) The reset, like Jesse mentioned (to me) two or three pages ago is almost immediate. You need to keep the prop out of the spectator's hands but the Tic Tacs are edible (I hope).

BTW, Kudos to Jesse for his measured responses and acceptance of criticism. It's all to understandable that someone might take advantage of the shortcuts presented by a video demo. "Every pass is perfect..."
Message: Posted by: Jaxon (May 11, 2006 04:28PM)
First let me say that I have not read every single post in this 7 page discussion but I browsed around and got the idea of the kinds of things being discussed. Let me take a moment to address a few of them. I should also mentioned that I don't yet own this trick.

First of all there's the issue of if this was a copy of my Bill Burner Clear. I will say that it was published in my JaxonMagic Note section of my old site a little over 3 years ago. I didn't publish it as an E-book until about a year ago. Now, I have no idea if Jessiah knew about my trick before making this or not. To be honest I really don't care. If he came up with his independently then I guess the old saying of great minds think alike is true. :) If my Bill Burner Clear inspired Intact then I'm very flattered. Either way I'm not upset about it and on that matter I'm the only one who has any reason to complain (and I'm not). Since no one has mentioned that my trick was credited as inspiration I'm guessing it was an independent creation using the same principle. Maybe I'm naive but I've had no reason yet not to trust Jessiah.

Now for the issue of the old Demo video. I saw the old one and I've seen the new one and my opinion is that in the eye of the spectators who see it performed there is no difference. I've commented so many times about how some magicians tend to confuse the method with the effect. The old demo showed that the card comes out of the box. Guess what the new demo shows...... The card coming out of the box.

The same goes for my [url=http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=159918&forum=159]Perpetuity Tubes[/url]. The bill doesn't really come out of the tube but not one of my spectators have ever questioned that. IN fact look at my third post on that above link. I mentioned the idea of doing it with a tic tac box there but judging by the date Jessiah beat me to it. :)

The point is. The effect happens the moment the object appears inside. The pulling out and showing it is only proof it's the same. I'm sure when you perform this it's just like my Perpetuity tubes. The moment the magic happens in the tube is the moment they react to. IF you perform either of them and you don't agree that this is the moment. Then here's what I suggest you do. The moment the bill or card appears inside. Don't be to quick to pull it out. Pause a moment and when they start to react then pull it out. You'll see how powerful taht pause will be.

Anyway, keep creating Jessiah.

Ron Jaxon
Message: Posted by: Marvello (May 11, 2006 04:41PM)
If an inventor of effects is "too lazy" to do all of the steps involved in putting together an effect for a demo video, and must fudge the effect for video sake, then I can only assume that the prep must be too difficult for the average person to do. Afterall, if the creator of the effect can't even be bothered to spend the time to perform it properly on the demo video then it most certainly is not going to be easy for me to do!
Message: Posted by: magicmanr (May 11, 2006 05:21PM)
[quote]
On 2006-05-11 17:41, Marvello wrote:
If an inventor of effects is "too lazy" to do all of the steps involved in putting together an effect for a demo video, and must fudge the effect for video sake, then I can only assume that the prep must be too difficult for the average person to do. Afterall, if the creator of the effect can't even be bothered to spend the time to perform it properly on the demo video then it most certainly is not going to be easy for me to do!
[/quote]

Not exactly.......The camera is a lot harder to fool than the human eye....You can do a perfect take in real life, but if you're on camera, being watched over and over...the camera WILL catch you....I think this whole discussion is insane and WELL blown out of proportion......I agree holeheartedly with Ron Jaxon's opinion, in saying that the effect that is seen in the spectators eyes is what really matters...I guess all demos should have a disclaimer stating as such, to make everyone happy....That, or everyone should just resort to their local brick and mortar shop for a demo from now on......
Message: Posted by: Jon Allen (May 11, 2006 06:54PM)
For those who say it is okay for an online video demo to show what the audience sees in their mind how does this sound:

John Kennedy has a card freely chosen and signed. He loses the card int he deck and puts the deck down. He points to a little box on the table. The person who signed the cards takes the lid off and inside is a folded up playing card. Very cleanly, John actually takes the card out of the box and shows that is the only card in it. He cleanly unfolds to show it is the signed card.

You have just viewed the cleanest card to box you have ever seen and rush to buy it. Only when you get it do you realise it's not quite as the video showed.

Do you think it's okay to put up a video of his Mystery Box like that? After all, that's what the audience sees in their mind.

(I'd like to point out that John's video does not show the trick done as I described but performs a real life version.)
Message: Posted by: Marvello (May 11, 2006 07:44PM)
[quote]
On 2006-05-11 18:21, magicmanr wrote:

Not exactly.......The camera is a lot harder to fool than the human eye....You can do a perfect take in real life, but if you're on camera, being watched over and over...the camera WILL catch you....I think this whole discussion is insane and WELL blown out of proportion......I agree holeheartedly with Ron Jaxon's opinion, in saying that the effect that is seen in the spectators eyes is what really matters...I guess all demos should have a disclaimer stating as such, to make everyone happy....That, or everyone should just resort to their local brick and mortar shop for a demo from now on......
[/quote]I agree it is hard to fool the camera, but that is NOT an excuse to portray a demo as being an actual demo. I thought that the lesson would have been learned with Pen Through Arm, but apparently it needs to be relearned again.

[b]Wannabe Magic Inventor:[/b] "here is a demo of a cool new trick I invented!"

[b]Every Magician in the World:[/b] "Dude, I bought the trick, and I can't do it like in the video. What's the secret? Also- the secret is the same as another effect I bought recently. I bought your effect because I knew I couldn't do that effect with the trick that has the same secret - it's impossible! What gives?"

[b]Wannabe Magic Inventor:[/b] "I know - but do you think I am gonna sit there and M fold a card just so I can make an honest video? Dude- I am too busy inventing more cool tricks to actually perform the actual tricks. As you remember, I was in a hurry to finish the video so I could sell a ton of these to other unsuspecting magicians. You should realize that the video is a 're-creation of the effect'"

[b]Every Magician in the World:[/b] "I feel ripped off"
Message: Posted by: magicmanr (May 11, 2006 08:15PM)
All replies noted and not argued with.....again, I defer everyone to their brick and mortar shops for a demo....The endless bandwidth wasted on 50 or so replies about a 'demo' is worthless and doesn't add anything to a review of an effect....Although I LOVE seeing a demo of an effect, it's such a tricky touchy item to show on the internet....I think most inventors would be better NOT offering a demo video, as the tricks are torn apart, studied, watched and REwatched..and subsequently ripped off.....

PS Last year, I bought PTA after watching Jesse's demo, as well....and noted the descrepancy in the video....Did I feel ripped off? Maybe a little....but it's still a great effect when I show it to someone...
Message: Posted by: johnnymystic (May 11, 2006 08:51PM)
It's just too bad theres all this ****te over the demo...the trick really looks good no matter what.

And once again I agree, PTA gets great reactions whenever I perform it...it's a good thing I like smoked oysters!

johnny
Message: Posted by: truthteller (May 11, 2006 10:23PM)
I have an item here in my collection. Here is the effect as seen by the audience:

The magician is reading a Newsweek magazine. Visible it doubles in size, then without warning it quadruples in size. Finally, in a flash, it expands to 16 times its normal size. If that were not enough, the magician whips aside the magazine to reveal, in the middle of the room, his lovely assistant.

Now, I could create a video with cuts and effects that would convey the intended effect to the audience that would sell hundreds of these.

However, the Newsweek trick (and I am sorry I cannot lay my hand on it) is perhaps the most undeceptive piece of trip every offered to the magic community. But, my video, showing the "effect" is accurate in so far as it is what the creator intends.

So, where is the line?

The line is: magicians should respect original thoughts. If they see an ad or video for a trick, and they like it, they should buy it. Not reconstruct it, not make it on their own. They should pay the man who had the idea. Then, no one would need to fool the camera. They would offer an honest representation of their product and people would pay for a good idea.

Brad
Message: Posted by: teevtee (May 11, 2006 10:51PM)
To the vrey fre people who oddly defend the idea of a deceptive video I ask you why? I mean forget this particular effect or creator, just in general what possible advantage is there to encouraging deceptive and misleading videos... it's just lunacy.

I hear things like "It's tricky" to create clear, honest videos. Well, simply put, NO IT IS NOT. In fact making a straight forward and honest video is the absolute easiest possible video to make. No cuts, no effects, very little actual work... it's EASY.

Heck, Magicmanr who is defending the video even admits that he felt "A little ripped off" after buying Pen Thru Arm. Would you not have prefered to see an HONEST video and then not feel ripped off at all? You see this is not about if the effect is good or bad, it is about how easy it is to sell deceptions and lies and how we should NEVER stand for that. One day you will not feel a little ripped off, you will feel TOTALLY ripped off because you had been lied to in a video.

The idea of simply not making demo videos is fine, but people will sell MANY fewer products with no demo. Rather I think a simple and honest demo will allow a trick to stand on it's own true merits... what happens from there depends on how good the effect is.
Message: Posted by: johnnymystic (May 11, 2006 11:56PM)
If and when I decide to put forth my own effects onto the open market I promIse this, ALL demos will be accurate...to the Tee.

Matter of fact they may just be live performnce!

Card in Picture Frame
Cards In Bottle
Staple in Arm (blood is optional)
My handling of PTA
Triple Koin Bypass (as performed on the learned pig and at about.com magic and illusion)

However, It would be nice to hear of others who have actually performed 'Intact' live and to hear what they have to say.

Can we forget about the demo now?

johnny
Message: Posted by: magicday (May 12, 2006 03:08AM)
For me I don't recommend it unless you have very good sleight in card magic especial the MF* Another disappointment with Jesse Feinberg's product.
Message: Posted by: Cameron Francis (May 12, 2006 09:13AM)
Magicday, did you think the trick was self working? I don't care how bad the demo was, Jesse never said no sleights required.
Message: Posted by: Drs_Res (May 12, 2006 09:43AM)
[quote]
On 2006-05-12 10:13, cfrancis wrote:
Magicday, did you think the trick was self working? I don't care how bad the demo was, Jesse never said no sleights required.
[/quote]

Ad copy from Hank Lee's site:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A signed, selected card visually appears inside a Tic Tac mint box.
Have a regular playing card freely selected, signed and returned to the deck.
Take a real Tic Tac box out of your pocket with your empty hand.
Only a couple of mints can be seen inside as you shake the box around.
Give the box one more, emphatic shake, and a card appears inside the box! Immediately open the Tic Tac box, remove and unfold the card and reveal the signed selection!
Everything is examinable.
Bonus effects and handling are described in detail. [b]InTact is perfect for close-up magicians at any skill level. It is very easy to learn and perform. No tricky moves. No setup. No forces of any kind.[/b]
It looks so good, you will even fool yourself!

Thanks to Jesse Feinberg for giving us the exclusive on this fine item, which means you will find it here at Hank Lee's and nowhere else.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
End Ad Copy


Now the wording "NO TRICKY MOVES", "VERY EASY TO LEARN", and "ANY SKILL LEVEL" could be used to describe the appearance, but to do the effect with a signed card as the ad copy implies, and add the demo video to that and take it as a whole makes it seem that the signed card effect will be easy for anyone at any skill level, but that may not be the case. This is the crux of the problem.

Also add to this, Hank has the exclusive on this means you can't get a demo in your local shop (if you even [b]have[/b] a local shop) so there goes that argument.

Now, I do think that Jesse is getting a lot of the pent up feelings from everyone that has been decieved in the past by bad/deceptive descriptions and or demo videos.

But cutting corners to get an effect across is not the way to go about things, especially after what happened with the first video and the PTA demo.

People just want to see a real representation of the effect. I don't think that is really asking too much.
Message: Posted by: mgshn (May 12, 2006 10:41AM)
No Tricky Moves - To me means the handling looks natural.

Very Easy to Learn - There aren't any nonstandard slights. From a review of the demo video it's pretty clear that you need a pass or similar control (in the real world if not in the demo) as a mercury card fold (same parenthetical). In fairness, there is one straight forward move that you do need to figure out and learn.

Any Skill Level - Implies a skill level, greater than zero, exists.

I don't know if this has been mentioned before but, from the instructions, it doesn't appear that Jesse has actually used this a lot. I draw that inference from the instructions that suggest a number of variations but don't present a specific use. I am aware of the probable response; that it was described in this way to provide us, his customers, the most flexibility. That said, I still believe my conclusion. Still, this is a very clever prop and I plan on trying to incorporation it into a usable presentation.

Bob Tobias

P.S. Please preface all the above w/ IMHO.
Message: Posted by: sabitu (May 12, 2006 11:49AM)
I have performed this several times for different people and it gets good reactions everytime. As far as skill level goes, I think the hardest part of the trick is the dump of the card from the tic tac box, which really isn't that hard. A little practice is all that is needed. Apart from that you will have to do a control and an M-fold like mgshn mentioned, but there are other ways of accomplishing the fold that Jesse mentions in the instructions. I would say that a basic level of card skills is necessary and a beginner could easily do this with practice. Also, an important aspect of the performance that should be practiced is the patter. I have found that if I work in a reason for bringing out a tic tac box in a way that makes sense I get much better reactions. If I just bring out the tic tac box without justifying this action the reactions are weaker.
Message: Posted by: Ragman (May 17, 2006 10:56PM)
So let me get this straight you are talking about the skill level of this mint box and how outraged you are that the ad/demo video was misleading. I find it odd that no one even seems to care that this idea may belong to another person. As good as the effect is I would like to know who really came up with it. If indeed it was inspired by another trick on the market that uses a lighter it seems a rip off to me. Just because you do your matrix with red cards instead of blue does not make it a new concept, nor would it be right to market it as such.
So who does the idea really belong to, that way I give my money to the proper person?
Message: Posted by: Cameron Francis (May 18, 2006 09:17AM)
The other effect is Bill Burner. However, Bill Burner is an effect where the object vanishes after being wrapped and secured with a rubber band around a clear lighter. Different effect.

Although the effects are different, the gimmick is similar. Not sure that this makes In Tact a rip off. From what I understand, the gimmick itself has a longer history than either of these two effects.
Message: Posted by: Jessiah (May 19, 2006 12:14PM)
Intact was created independently last year by me... the gaff has similarities to bill burner, but different in MANY ways. Intact is in no way a rip off of anything... Intact is very unique in both its function, and handlings... Everything about Intact has been designed specific. Also, the way its made, many other things are possible with the gaff... not just one specific thing. But that takes your creativity, and you can go to my forum to share too!

Intact is fresh, original, and limitless... No other marketed/published effect will teach you what intact can do... you can PM me if you have specific/sensitive questions about this... thanks for your attention guys! -Jesse
Message: Posted by: AntonDreaming (May 19, 2006 11:19PM)
Just so no one is confused this principle did not start with ron jaxon. He did not create it and claiming that the meathod belongs to some one is like claiming that somthing like black art "BELONGS" to some one. If your making the jump that Ron Jaxons trick with the lighter that vanishes the bill is the same as jesses trick with making a card appear in a mind box then that like calling the raven and melting point the same deal. The principal is very simmilar but the results are not.

My 2 cents to rub together.

The Royalty
Message: Posted by: truthteller (May 31, 2006 06:07PM)
[quote]
On 2006-05-19 13:14, Jessiah wrote:

Intact is fresh, original, and limitless... No other marketed/published effect will teach you what intact can do... -Jesse


[/quote]

Again, I refer you to Charlie Miller's Magicana for the published use of this idea. Also, Ammar has spoken about this principle, and I believe he has made references to it in lectures. I mention this only in the interest of keeping the historical record accurate.

Best,

Brad
Message: Posted by: Review King (May 31, 2006 07:25PM)
[quote]
On 2006-05-31 19:07, truthteller wrote:
[quote]
On 2006-05-19 13:14, Jessiah wrote:

Intact is fresh, original, and limitless... No other marketed/published effect will teach you what intact can do... -Jesse


[/quote]

Again, I refer you to Charlie Miller's Magicana for the published use of this idea. Also, Ammar has spoken about this principle, and I believe he has made references to it in lectures. I mention this only in the interest of keeping the historical record accurate.

Best,

Brad
[/quote]

This is the value of having wise historians. Very cool Brad!!!
Message: Posted by: teevtee (May 31, 2006 08:37PM)
No, you see because Jesse has nebver heard of something that means he must of invented it...right? We all live in our own little vaccums and everything that happened before us is meaningless. After all this is "fresh, original and limitless"!!!!
Message: Posted by: Review King (May 31, 2006 08:53PM)
[quote]
On 2006-05-31 21:37, teevtee wrote:
No, you see because Jesse has nebver heard of something that means he must of invented it...right? We all live in our own little vaccums and everything that happened before us is meaningless. After all this is "fresh, original and limitless"!!!!

[/quote]
Well, I know how Jesse feels. I invented what I think is the coolest card trick ( you give the illusion that your shuffling the cards face up and face down and then POOF! They are straightened out and the chose card revealed.

I keep being told some guy named Fernon or something invented it. BUT, I refuse to believe it!
Message: Posted by: truthteller (May 31, 2006 09:53PM)
We have all invented tricks only to find out they are 100 years old. It is a testament to our own thought processes. However, we should always be humble enough to accept the facts when presented.

Brad
Message: Posted by: teevtee (May 31, 2006 11:47PM)
I can never blaim someone for honestly "inventing' something that has already been invented. I mean if they honestly did this without prior knowledge then great, in a way they did invent it. But that does not give them free reign to sell the effect and hopefully when presented with the facts they will aknowledge the truth.

There is very, very little original thought these days in almost any field, especially something like magic. We are all more or less recycling the same basic ideas. This does not mean they are "rip offs" but terms like "original" or "unique" should be used with caution.
Message: Posted by: Jessiah (Jun 1, 2006 01:09AM)
I appreciate the facts Brad. I wish I had your resources, Id be coming up with all kinds of new things! Can I come over and hang out sometime!!!! seriously!

I definitely created intact independently. I even made sure to speak to Ron Jaxon. I wanted to talk with him about how creatively similar we really are! I hope someday soon him and I can colaborate... I would be honored! Look at how Cigapen and Outsmokin' go together so well! Basically, similar methods can be the basis for many effects... I feel that the way intact is unique goes beyond the methods. Intact has a very unique way of working when you apply the instructed handling. All of my tricks have a 'it was meant to be' kind of feel. When developing a trick, everything that screws up or works is for a reason, and by the end, I learn all of these really specific nuances and compile them into a perfect package. Once you learn ALL of intact, doors will open to new possibilities in your magic mind. The gaff is very unique, and versatile. I wish everyone could get a chance to see this in person. The reactions are always great! -Jesse
Message: Posted by: truthteller (Jun 1, 2006 01:36AM)
The good news is that the entire Magicana series is slated for republication. It will be a must have.

Jesse, any time you are in Austin, drop me a line.

Brad
Message: Posted by: johnnymystic (Jun 1, 2006 02:35AM)
Brad, ain't you supposed to be going on tour soon? will it lead you our way by chance?

I would LOVE to see your 9 Ring Linking Ring Routine! :)

johnny
Message: Posted by: truthteller (Jun 1, 2006 02:03PM)
On tour in 2 weeks. I will be driving through MA a couple of times on my way to and from Maine. I often spend the night with a friend in Marlborough.
Message: Posted by: Jessiah (Jun 1, 2006 02:03PM)
Brad, that's awesome man, thanks for the invite! I would love to get my hands on the republication... sounds like some excellent material. Im very into collecting books and videos... Ill keep my eyes out for that.

I second Johnny, are you planning on coming to new england?
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Jun 21, 2006 05:39PM)
[quote]
On 2006-05-17 23:56, Ragman wrote:
So let me get this straight you are talking about the skill level of this mint box and how outraged you are that the ad/demo video was misleading. I find it odd that no one even seems to care that this idea may belong to another person. As good as the effect is I would like to know who really came up with it. If indeed it was inspired by another trick on the market that uses a lighter it seems a rip off to me. Just because you do your matrix with red cards instead of blue does not make it a new concept, nor would it be right to market it as such.
So who does the idea really belong to, that way I give my money to the proper person?

[/quote]

So then we can't use known effects or methods as an inspirtion for creating something new? Then we better trash every effect that uses an Elmsley Count....and there are LEGIONS of them.
Message: Posted by: johnnymystic (Feb 23, 2007 02:10PM)
I just got this last night and fooled my family with it...and these folks is jaded, they think they've seen it all.

I will be taking this to a gig I have on Friday night, I'm sure it will fool 'em badly. Many people I'll be performing for know Bob Chesbro and have witnessed his famous Tric-Tac effect...they tell me about it all the time. :)

I'm very happy with this effect InTact by Jesse

One of the reasons I like this trick so much is it's DIY and you can always get more tic-tac boxes, no special orders to on-line shops and all that rot

9/10

johnny
Message: Posted by: AdrianKeller (Apr 3, 2007 09:44AM)
I have intact for quite some time now and it always gets great reactions. I have not read all of the pages here, but I guess everything concerning the trick has been told. I'd give it a 7/10.

the trick itself (card appears in box) is quite strong, but I was missing something (although the principle opens quite a few "doors"). I have built some sort of "conflict" for the magician into the trick and an extra effect. I use a red deck, but a blue card appears inside the box. I remove the blue card and it has their signature on it. simple to to.
Message: Posted by: restaurant3000 (Jun 14, 2014 01:36PM)
Loving Intact. I must admit I did glean the method from this thread before buying, without the knowing the method I may not have purchased.
I have been using this for a torn quarter of a card to impossible location.
So organic, perhaps one of my best buys for several years.