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Topic: Flipper vs Gravity Flipper
Message: Posted by: magicforu (May 6, 2006 12:44PM)
I wish to know the advantage and disadavntage between the Flipper and Gravity Flipper.

Thanks for your help.
Message: Posted by: Jim Salabim (May 6, 2006 01:52PM)
I suggest you go and buy Dan Watkins Coin Man Walking DVD ( http://www.coinvanish.com )

You'll get the best insight on the gravity flipper ever.... And you'll se it in action.

Jim
Message: Posted by: tbaer (May 6, 2006 08:10PM)
The flipper takes some effort to open, the gravity flipper takes no effort.
Message: Posted by: Corey Harris (May 6, 2006 09:42PM)
Tbaer is pretty much right. a regular flipper takes more of a flick to open. the gravity flipper opens with gravity. Though I have rigged mine where it doesn't open as easily.
Message: Posted by: Dan Watkins (May 6, 2006 11:28PM)
Here is the quick summary:

Gravity falls open when picked up by the eges, regular stays closed and needs a flick to open.

Gravity has no rubber band in the insert edge, regular does.

Gravity can stay open under its own weight, regular springs shut.
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (May 6, 2006 11:41PM)
Can one use the Gravity flipper for the routines in Bob Swadling's instructions? The sudden vanish of a coin under a glass or on a handkerchief etc is VERY impressive.
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (May 7, 2006 12:53AM)
I worked out a routine I call SHE FLY, using a flipper poker chip. Effect is you place two chips on a the back of a lady's closed hand. Ask her to toss the two chips in the air, turn her hand over and catch them. Of course when the chips are caught there is only one (thanks to the flipper action). It plays extremely well. You can do it with a coin flipper, but if she misses and it hits the floor you are in trouble. The chip, however, won't be damaged if it is dropped.
Message: Posted by: Dan Watkins (May 7, 2006 03:10AM)
[quote]
On 2006-05-07 00:41, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
Can one use the Gravity flipper for the routines in Bob Swadling's instructions? The sudden vanish of a coin under a glass or on a handkerchief etc is VERY impressive.
[/quote]

For the coin under the glass you will want the normal "springy" kind.

I know with Schoolcraft's Flipper you can use two bands, or use a thicker band to vary the "springiness" for routines where you need the coin to snap shut instead of lay open flat. I personally never do this because the only routine I currently use the gaff for is my 4 Coins, Your Hands routine.
Message: Posted by: magicforu (May 7, 2006 05:00AM)
Thanks for all your input. But is there any other adavntage for the regular flipper ?
Message: Posted by: andrelimantara (May 7, 2006 06:43AM)
Hi there

if you already work with gravity flipper, you will really wanna keep using it

it's very good

You won't even considered using regular flipper anymore
Message: Posted by: Charlie Justice (May 7, 2006 07:11AM)
[quote]
On 2006-05-07 06:00, magicforu wrote:
Thanks for all your input. But is there any other adavntage for the regular flipper ?
[/quote]
"Advantage" is relative and dependent on your personal needs.

With that in mind, 2 'advantages' would be the lower cost & the fact that you can casually flip a regular one in the air without worry that it will be exposed.
Message: Posted by: Dan Watkins (May 7, 2006 11:59AM)
Charlie, I can casually flip my Schoolcraft gravity flipper in the air without any fear of it being exposed. These coins do not open while flipped. In fact, if you flip an open one into the air, it will close.
Message: Posted by: tpdmagic (May 7, 2006 05:36PM)
A couple of points I feel are relative....first off, the normal flipper can easily fall open with gravity, it just depends on what bands you use. This is especially true with a silver dollar size flipper, with the extra weight of the flip part ..opening with gravity is almost inevitable. It also works with half dollar size if the bands are a bit broken in, or if you use thinner bands to start with. Some even use elastic from gym socks, etc. to achieve the action they are looking for.

Personally, I prefer a flipper coin that does not fall open all the way. If you can fine tune your flipper in this manner, all it needs is to open enough to let your finger finish the job. I was watching Dan's dvd and the hanging part of the flipper can actually be seen hanging down during his performance, it seems very angly.

Something else is the fact that there is a huge difference between the Schoolcraft flipper and the 'other' far superior 'gravity' flipper. They are not the same animal by any means. The Schoolcraft flippers that I have examined make a lot of noise opening and closing...especially the dollar size, they hang up a bit too, the 'other' guy's 'gravity' flipper has solved this problem. It works smoothly and quietly, it's like a dream. I think some might confuse the Schoolcraft flipper with the 'gravity' flipper, so named by the other maker.
Message: Posted by: Dan Watkins (May 7, 2006 06:19PM)
For my 4 Coins, Your Hands trick, you do need the coin to fully open. There are no finger motions used to open the coin. You pick up a stack of coins, and place them down, and the work is done. The angles are not bad. The back of your right hand shields the view from the right, the open left hand shields the view from the left, your body shields the view from the back, and her body shields the view from the front.

The only bad angle is if you were doing it for people who are seated while you are standing, then I think you might run the risk of someone catching a flash of silver.

I can catch a flash on the DVD. The camera level was six feet away on a side shot and low to keep both of us in frame. The camera was similar to the head level of someone seated. Just be aware of this one angle and you are good to go.

I use the term "gravity" as a generic descriptive characteristic to denote that the coin opens via gravity, as opposed to a flick.

My Schoolcraft flipper does not have any noise or catching, and has worked perfectly fine for me for several years. I am using a half dollar size. I have not played with the dollar size so I cannot comment there.

I have now also had the opportunity to try out the "other" gravity flipper in half dollar size and I can say that it operates similar to the Schoolcraft one. It opens via gravity, lays open under its own weight, and has no band in the edge. So it mirrors the characteristics necessary for my routine. I could not notice any ascertainable improvement to the function of the coin, nor could I see any noticeable detriments with it.

It is my personal opinion that they both operate for all intents and purposes equally and are both high quality. In my mind any claims of far superiority of one over the other are just aren’t there in the half dollar size at least.
Message: Posted by: tpdmagic (May 8, 2006 10:08AM)
Hi Dan. With all due respect, maybe you don't notice a whole lot of difference in PERFORMANCE of the half dollar size gravity flipper, but open it up and you'd be a liar if you stated you couldn't see a difference in CRAFTSMANSHIP!! The design is entirely different and quite a bit more well thought out. The gravity flipper is just a better design and aesthetically it is not even in the same ball park. Maybe some won't care as long as they perform relatively the same in some instances, but when I am paying a lot of money for a coin gaff, when it has that look and feel of pure quality, it is my treasure! And as I stated, there is a HUGE difference in the performance of the dollar size versions. The gravity flipper is also easier to load the rubber band and the half dollar size comes with a special fixture to load the band on that is a work of art in itself. Also, I have heard that Schoolcraft is not taking orders at this time...so there are a few points that are definetely worth considering for a first time buyer. I think the price is about the same on both items..so there you go.
Message: Posted by: Sean W. Burke (May 8, 2006 10:37AM)
Well I can say that you are wrong on at least one of your statements you made, tpdmagic, don't know how many more are incorrect. I purchased a Schoolcraft flipper on Friday and it was shipped out same day with the year I requested via priority mail. Can't ask for better service then that.
Message: Posted by: tpdmagic (May 8, 2006 01:31PM)
I read on Genii board that he had suffered some personal tragedy and was sending generic emails to customers stating that he wasn't accepting orders at this time. I also remember reading a post about that here on this board recently. He must be back on track. As for how many OTHER statements are incorrect, I'm not going to take a lie detector test to prove anything to you, do your own research and make your own opinions. I find your tone insulting. Why is that people on this board are taking so much flack for voicing opinions about magic products? Isn't that part of the reason we come here? In fact Sean, why don't you compare the flipper coins and get back to us? That way you can state exactly how many of my statements you think are incorrect.
Message: Posted by: Sean W. Burke (May 8, 2006 02:11PM)
The tragedy you refer to I believe was his friend Dean Dills accident. He (Dean) is doing much better now.

As far as being insulted I think you are being overly sensitive. I was merely pointing out that of all the statements you made the only one that I could relate to (since I don't own a Lassen) was incorrect. Instead of stating "I don't know how many more are incorrect" I guess I should have said, "I don't know if anymore are incorrect". I don't know why people get so worked up when it comes to these coin makers. They both are very talented and apparently do excellent work. God forbid there is any competition. If anybody should be upset it should be Bob Swadling.

that's just my 2 cents, actually its one cent but it is a swadling coing made to look like 2.
Message: Posted by: 2003 user (May 8, 2006 03:01PM)
Tpdmagic is right, Jamie is too busy to take orders now. I have wrote him he reply he don't take any orders now ,have a lot of jobs on hand need to finished first.

Lassen also very busy my friend have ordered from him , as he don't have any in stock and need two months to make one !

I don't have any dollar size flipper, some said that the cut on the dollar size flipper is very visible is this ture ? Thanks
Message: Posted by: Sean W. Burke (May 8, 2006 03:07PM)
2003user I think Jamie might be at a convention this week. Anyway if you give him a call(instead of email) he should be able to answer all of your questions.
Message: Posted by: tpdmagic (May 8, 2006 03:44PM)
According to the thread I read, the personal tragedy was not Dill's accident, it happened before the accident. Whatever it was, it must have been devastating to last this long. The turnaround time for Lassen depends on how big and how custom your order is according to my past experience. A lot of times he will have shells and flippers and things of this sort in stock because he makes them in batches and he makes extras.
Message: Posted by: Dan Watkins (May 8, 2006 04:16PM)
Todd, I did see a difference in design such as the gravity one uses a 45 degree trench cut versus the Schoolcraft's "L" cut. Also the fixed portion was cut at an angle with a more zig zag cut compared to a straight cut on my Schoolcraft one.

While I do recognize some difference in design, to me they were just tangential to the operation of the coin. I did not notice any operational improvement and still contend that the coins are too similar to really draw any substantive distinction.

I am not going to take the position that some people take and try to bash one guys design, when the truth is, they both look and work very similarly.
Message: Posted by: tpdmagic (May 8, 2006 07:27PM)
"they both look and work very similarly"

Sorry Dan, can't buy that at all, not even close or I wouldn't have bothered mentioning it. I was one of the first to actually own the new Lassen design, he gave it to me to road test about a year before he decided to release them. I LOOOOVVVVVVE it! When magicians see the guts of the thing, their eyes pop out every time. ART in it's truest form.
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (May 8, 2006 09:35PM)
So, what do you do, show the inner workings to your audiences? :dice:
Message: Posted by: Dan Watkins (May 8, 2006 09:47PM)
Hey Todd, no worries my friend, I am not asking you to buy my opinion. I am not trying to have anyone buy my opinion. People know who I am and can judge my opinion for what it is worth. I have many quality gaffs from both sources, all top notch stuff. I have no problem giving credit where credit is due.

I will remain by my original assessment: Both coins open via gravity, both stay open under their own weight, both don't have a rubber band in the edge. They are functionally duplicates.

Maybe some people's opinion of art is straight lines or zig zags, some people's idea of art is L cuts or angled cuts. I think focusing on the "art” of the inside of the open coin is focusing meaningless minutia. That’s the part no one is ever supposed to see. I care about function. Art is something I hang on my wall… I perform magic with my coin gaffs.
Message: Posted by: magicxman (May 9, 2006 12:16AM)
The cutting on a flipper whether it is visible or not is not a matter. I don't think anyone will hand their flipper to spectator for inspection.
Message: Posted by: tpdmagic (May 9, 2006 02:13AM)
[quote]
On 2006-05-08 22:35, Pete Biro wrote:
So, what do you do, show the inner workings to your audiences? :dice:
[/quote]
Pete,
If you read above I never said anything about audiences seeing the inner workings. I said that about magicians not audiences...MAGICIANS don't PAY MY BILLS LAY AUDIENCES DO!
Message: Posted by: evolve629 (May 17, 2006 10:00AM)
[quote]
On 2006-05-07 04:10, Dan Watkins wrote:
[quote]
On 2006-05-07 00:41, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
Can one use the Gravity flipper for the routines in Bob Swadling's instructions? The sudden vanish of a coin under a glass or on a handkerchief etc is VERY impressive.
[/quote]

For the coin under the glass you will want the normal "springy" kind.

I know with Schoolcraft's Flipper you can use two bands, or use a thicker band to vary the "springiness" for routines where you need the coin to snap shut instead of lay open flat. I personally never do this because the only routine I currently use the gaff for is my 4 Coins, Your Hands routine.
[/quote]
I love Bob Swadling's Coin Vanish under a glass routine. I have been wanting to get a Schoolcraft's Flipper for this effect. Maybe I'll have to get both!
Message: Posted by: GWSchott (Nov 7, 2006 09:34PM)
I like my flipper to pretty much dangle open when I pick it up by the edges. It just seems to be easier to handle that way, at least for the types of routines I've been doing. To that avail, I ended up replacing the stock ru**er b**d that came with my Johnson with a lighter version that I bought through a dental supply company online. Now all I have to do is hold the coin by its edges and it opens.