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Topic: Is there magic that has never been disclosed and still remains a secret.
Message: Posted by: Tom Bartlett (May 20, 2006 10:13PM)
Does anybody know of a magician that took a secret to the grave? Does anyone of magic that has never been disclosed and still remains a secret?
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (May 22, 2006 06:42AM)
[quote]
On 2006-05-20 23:13, smoothassilk wrote:
Does anybody know of a magician that took a secret to the grave? Does anyone of magic that has never been disclosed and still remains a secret?
[/quote]
Is that an attempt at an oxymoron?

Yes, lots of good works have been lost to time.
Message: Posted by: Tom Bartlett (May 22, 2006 10:32AM)
Jonathan,
I did not realize how unclear my post is, until I read your response. I have read a great many of your post and think you command a vast knowledge of magic and magic history. I am very pleased that you have taken the time to respond to this poorly written post.
What I meant to say; My primus would have to be limited to written biographical history of magicians or personal knowledge. Does any one have knowledge of a “famous magician” who did not leave notes or manuscripts detailing their illusions, tricks, techniques, routines or means buy which they preformed their magic.
For instance, from what I have read, Houdini left all or at least most of his secrets to his brother to keep and guard but non the less, the information was left.
Respectfully,
Tom Bartlett
Message: Posted by: Utkarsh Sinha (May 24, 2006 02:39AM)
There is a levitation called the Aliun levitation... It was being developed, but there were some problems, so the three magicians who were working on it, abandoned the project. They are alive, but it is believed that no one knows the secret gimmick used to execute the levitation.

So, only three people only the whole planet know what the lev is all about.
Message: Posted by: Tom Bartlett (May 24, 2006 12:05PM)
Thanks for the post, hopefully one of them will write it down or better figure out a was to effectively to complete it, so it wont be lost like so many great ideas already lost.
Message: Posted by: Spellbinder (May 26, 2006 06:37PM)
It probably hasn't happened in modern times, although it may have happened in ancient times. Even the great Del Ray, whom many magicians think took all of his secrets with him to the grave, was really unable to do so. Why? Because he performed for other magicians.

After Del Ray's death in 2003 (see his brief biography on The Magic Nook web site), magicians who knew him and who saw him perform have been quietly documenting what they saw and what they think they know about his most secret secrets. Like the secrets of Percy Abbott, eventually someone will publish them in a book and they will not be lost.
Message: Posted by: Tom Bartlett (May 26, 2006 08:18PM)
One of Percy Abbott's grandchildren lives here in Tulsa. Her son is in DeMolay with mine. She and I have talked of Mr. Abbott on several occasions. She has explained that they were never close, saw him only a few times and remembers little, except the stories told by her mother and other family members. She has some home movies of Percy, some showing him doing magic, that her husband will someday try to convert to DVD. 1.
One of the stories she related to me is Mr. Abbott, being born in Australia, was an illegal alien much of his life. This fact was brought to light because of the willful defacing of coins for the use in magic. When the judge found out he had been in the U.S.A. illegally for many, many years, but was an upright and respected business man in his community and throughout the U.S., the Judge ordered Mr. Abbott to return in one year, with the knowledge of the ownership of the currency he was alerting. Mr. Abbott returned, then informed the Judge the coins belonged to the U.S. Government and it was wrong to deface them. With that, the Judge made Mr. Percy Abbott a citizen of the United States of America.
Message: Posted by: Hideo Kato (May 26, 2006 08:44PM)
Tenkai left many notebooks in which he had noted his ideas, his variations of tricks he witnessed. Mr.Takada printed half of them. I don't know what happened on the remaining half. Tenkai showed me all of notes to me. There were about 60 notebooks of about 50 pages in average. I published some tricks from the notes with Tenkai's permission in the magazine I published.

Hideo Kato
Message: Posted by: Tom Bartlett (May 26, 2006 10:26PM)
Spellbinder, Hideo Kato, Thank you both. This is certainly the kink of stuff I was hopping for.
Message: Posted by: Binary (May 27, 2006 08:12PM)
[quote]
On 2006-05-24 03:39, Utkarsh Sinha wrote:
There is a levitation called the Aliun levitation... It was being developed, but there were some problems, so the three magicians who were working on it, abandoned the project. They are alive, but it is believed that no one knows the secret gimmick used to execute the levitation.

So, only three people only the whole planet know what the lev is all about.
[/quote]I know what its all about, they have registered a patent for it if you look hard enough ;)

Obviously there are many tricks in the past which secrets are not known, but with things such as the indian rope trick, its hard to distinguish between fact and fiction.
Message: Posted by: Lawrens Godon (May 28, 2006 04:32AM)
Bonjour!

Quote from Mr. Sharpe in The Sphinx February 1938, about Ramo Samee, indian performer, Circa 1818 :

"The indian juggler lays on the palm of his hand a small quantity of common sand. This he rubs with the fingers of his other hand, and it changes its hue-the colourless grains become yellow; he rubs them again, they are black. This is an extraordinary deception, and not the less so from the wonderful change, and the wonderful simplicity of the means.(...)Although Ramo Samee's version of the indian sands is said to be wonderfully simple, I am unacquainted with any description of the method employed."

Just an example of one of the past lost secret...
Some idea to how get into this effect?

I have some that cross my mind, but...seems too complicated!

Cheers,
Message: Posted by: Tom Bartlett (May 28, 2006 01:23PM)
Bonjour!

Thanks, lawrens for this piece of history. This is the kind of suff that inspires us to create.
Message: Posted by: kregg (Jun 4, 2006 05:58PM)
Erdnase.
Message: Posted by: fonda57 (Aug 5, 2006 09:58AM)
If there's anyone who knows about secrets that have not been published it would be Mr.Townsend.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Aug 16, 2006 10:21PM)
Many of Hofzinser's secrets remain unpublished. The ones we have came from one or two people whom he taught part of his material to, and a few props he left behind.

The secret of the Hooker rising cards has never been published. Only John Gaughan and his workers know it. They own the prop. I spoke to John about it at the Collector's Weekend this spring. He said, "Well, there's not just one secret..." and that told me something that I had always figured.
Message: Posted by: chrismatt (Aug 26, 2006 12:39AM)
I believe Dr. Hooker was a chemical engineer in Philly. I always wondered how much his scientific background played a role in bringing Miltiades to life.
Message: Posted by: joseph (Aug 26, 2006 07:32AM)
I saw 2 old guys perform an illusion called Eclipse....This was never released, and I saw the performance 20 years ago at the Abbott's Get-Together....
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Aug 26, 2006 12:20PM)
I saw Eclipse performed at the TAOM in Arlington in 1977. Although the method has not been released, many of us sussed it out rather quickly. One of the reasons we got the method was that there was a prop on stage that was not actually necessary. That tipped us off.

Peter Tappan has two that he has not released -- his miniature floating lady and his floating cube.

One thing I should point out is this: just because you have figured out [b]A[/b] method for doing something doesn't mean you have figured out [b]THE[/b] method for doing it. People who are professional debunkers often make that mistake. Engineers are the worst about coming up with complex solutions for simple tricks.

A good sleight of hand move combined with a simple gimmick can look like the most complex set of engineered machinery.

Take a look, sometime, at the various solutions for the Chess Playing Automaton of Baron von Kempelen. The secret remained a mystery for more than a century. Various clockwork imitations were made, but none of them worked. Why? They missed the most important part of the original -- a small, live chess master who hid inside the machine.
Message: Posted by: Tod Todson (Dec 9, 2006 07:00PM)
I don't believe Marvyn Roy has released his "Light Bulb" act.

Tod
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Dec 9, 2006 11:22PM)
If Jim Callihan bites the big one....We'll all lose! :)
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Dec 10, 2006 05:23PM)
There is plenty of unpublished material. Hopefully it will stay as such.
Message: Posted by: joseph (Dec 18, 2006 10:23AM)
Indian Rope Illusion (title?) always comes to mind... :) ..
Message: Posted by: Servante (Jan 6, 2007 02:16PM)
Poe published the secret (by mental reverse engineering) of the baron's chess player.

As has been pointed out above, one of the reasons some secrets are never worked out is that those who witnessed a thing tell you what they THOUGHT they saw, rather than what they ACTUALLY saw.

That's part of the art of magic, eh?
Message: Posted by: Rick Fisher (Jul 29, 2008 08:20PM)
Winston Freer's Levitation
Message: Posted by: loyaleagle (Aug 1, 2008 02:12AM)
Yes, Erdnase is a good one, though his entire existence is a mystery. Also, the Indian Rope Trick also came to my mind. Unfortunately, I think that one is actually a myth. It is pretty advanced and crazy for something that would be possible for early magicians.

There were some British mentalists (a couple) who were very famous when radio and TV were new. The husband has died and the wife plans to keep her secrets with her until she joins him and beyond.
Message: Posted by: knibby (Aug 23, 2008 09:38AM)
[quote]
On 2008-08-01 03:12, loyaleagle wrote:
There were some British mentalists (a couple) who were very famous when radio and TV were new. The husband has died and the wife plans to keep her secrets with her until she joins him and beyond.
[/quote]

The piddingtons I belive they were known as?
Message: Posted by: AlexMack24 (Aug 24, 2008 05:55AM)
Was "Scarne Aces" ever revealed, or was that TV show just trying to create some hype?
Message: Posted by: thedudewiththecard (Sep 1, 2008 10:24AM)
I remember I read somewhere that someone could preform the trick lol I know I sound stupid I just cant remember his name I know he's a famous magician but like scarne he also didn't teach the trick =(
Message: Posted by: Pakar Ilusi (Sep 2, 2008 01:50AM)
I have some magic that has never been disclosed and still remains a secret.... They're mine though....

:goof:
Message: Posted by: nathanallen (Sep 17, 2008 04:23PM)
What about the original Berglas effect? Other than Mr. Berglas himself, I only know of two other guys who do it... And from what I understand, it has never been published...
Message: Posted by: Steve_Mollett (Sep 17, 2008 05:55PM)
To my knowledge, there has never been a description of the actual method Lester Lake used to regulate his 'gimmick' in the Boiled Alive stunt he performed in the 1930s.
Message: Posted by: manks123 (Jan 26, 2009 03:27PM)
[quote]
On 2008-08-24 06:55, AlexMack24 wrote:
Was "Scarne Aces" ever revealed, or was that TV show just trying to create some hype?
[/quote]

Yes didn't Scarne take the secret of this to the grave? Can someone please shed some light on this?

Stefan
Message: Posted by: thehawk (Mar 24, 2009 08:05AM)
I am sure many of today's magicians have effects that we are dying to know. Pardon the pun.
Message: Posted by: Lynchini (Oct 5, 2010 11:28PM)
I would love to find more information on Karl Germaine. If anyone can elaborate on him a bit or possibly direct me to more information about this magician of the past, I would greatly appreciate it!
Regards, Lynchini
Message: Posted by: djurmann (Dec 24, 2010 04:49PM)
Who are the other 2 who do ACAAN?
Message: Posted by: Denis Bastible (Dec 27, 2010 05:02PM)
Farquhar's cups and balls.
Message: Posted by: RobAnderson (Jan 2, 2011 06:46PM)
Pretty sure DC has never officially released the info on any of his illusions, and likely won't do so. Many of them are commonly known though, but still...
Message: Posted by: kasper (Jan 18, 2011 10:45AM)
A lot of religious books and texts haven't disclosed their miracles and tricks. Funny thing is that they were written long long ago. These miracles sound astounding compared to the material that we see today.