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Topic: Centers and Greeks
Message: Posted by: MagicKim (Jun 5, 2006 04:27PM)
Hello everyone. I'm looking for good(great) :P sources to learn those deals from. I assume there are many different techniques on them as when talking about bottoms etc. I'm looking for a method which uses a as natural grip as possible basically. A technique that, when made "perfect", looks great. Doesn't matter how difficult it is to learn it. The one Richard Turner does on "The Cheat" DvD looks great but if I'm not mistaken the grip isn't that ordinary? You get my point?

Well, I appreciate all the advice I get so if you have any knowledge about this, please, reply.

Best, Kim
Message: Posted by: JasonEngland (Jun 5, 2006 05:30PM)
The question has been asked before.

Here are the fairly standard sources:

[i][b]The Cheat[/i][/b] DVD by Richard Turner. Richard deals excellent centers from a mechanics’ grip.

Steve Forte’s [i][b]Gambling Protection Series[/i][/b] videos. Steve can deal centers from a variety of grips, some orthodox, some not. If memory serves he’s using a variant of the Erdnase grip on these tapes. Great stuff in addition to the center deal on these tapes.

[i][b]The Art of the Bottom Deal[/i][/b] by Stephen Hobbs. This is a great book on Gene Maze’s technique for bottoms and centers. Gene dealt from a modified Erdnase grip.

[i][b]Ever So Sleightly[/i][/b] by Stephen Minch. This is the first book of the “Nash Trilogy.” It contains Martin’s work on the center deal. Martin’s version incorporates an idea of pre-setting the cards to be dealt off in the action of squaring the deck. This idea also appears in [i][b]The Card Magic of LePaul[/i][/b] applied to the bottom deal.

Martin also has a greek deal in [i][b]Any Second Now[/i][/b] and another (one-handed) greek deal in [i][b]Sleight Unseen[/i][/b].

Allan Ackerman has his “Minus 1 Deal” in [i][b]Magic Mafia Effects[/i][/b].

[i][b]Seconds, Centers and Bottoms[/i][/b] by Ed Marlo is another great resource that is fairly easy to locate. Marlo primarily advocates his “Master” grip.

Marlo also has work on the greek deal in [i][b]Kabbala Vol 3[/i][/b].

Andrew Wimhurst published his excellent method for the greek deal in his fantastic [i][b]Down Under Deals[/i][/b]. If you don’t wish to bother with converting currency to Jordanian dinars, I can sell you a pdf of these notes for $5. Just don’t tell Andrew.

[i][b]The Magic and Methods of Ross Bertram[/i][/b] contains a description (complete with photos of Dai Vernon’s hands performing the move) of the Kennedy center deal, though some think the description is lacking or incorrect.

[i][b]Expert Card Technique[/i][/b] by Hugard and Braue contains a center deal of sorts. However, it is speculated that the authors were merely guessing at a method, as the one in the book is nearly unworkable.

That should get you started.

Message: Posted by: MagicKim (Jun 6, 2006 12:41AM)
Thank you. Hm I own "The Cheat" by Mr Turner and if my memory serves me correctly, he doesn't show at all how he does it. And by that I don't mean going into detail but basically anything more than just demonstrating the move from a fairly far distance.

Looked like his grip isn't really a mechanics, looked like his fingers were in the front end of the deck.

I am definately interested in the Down Under Deals.

Just so you understood me correctly, the deals I am looking for is not for magic effects but for real cheating demonstrations, i.e the real thing.

Thank you for your help Mr England. If you were serious about the Down under deals, send me a PM with some more info.

Thanks again.

Best, Kim.

edit: or preferably send me an e-mail.
Message: Posted by: Paul H (Jun 6, 2006 01:49PM)
Hi Magickim,

Do go for Jason's generous offer. Down Under Deals is one of my favorite manuscripts of all time and Andrews center deal is probably the best and fastest deal of its type especially for stud centers. Its also worth trying to get a copy of the video 'The Card Artistry of Andrew Wimhurst'. In addition to performing a number of effects from DUDS, this showcases the center deal. If you can see the cards coming from the center then you have x-ray eyes. Andrew's execution of this move is quite superb. Good luck.


Paul H
Message: Posted by: Clock (Jun 6, 2006 05:31PM)
This may sound old fashioned, but I actually learned a brilliant center deal from the Dai Series. I am pretty sure it is the "11 + 12" DVD. They discuss many subtleties, and even ways to strengthen your hand for the take.

As for Greeks, I kind of taught myself. You can modify an Erdnase bottom deal to "pull back" the bottom card...and push out the card second from the bottom. I have just recentley been able to accomplish this method with a plastic "cut card". This is just what I did since I did not have any recources, but the books and videos above sounds great (thanks btw).

Best of Luck!

Message: Posted by: JasonEngland (Jun 6, 2006 05:52PM)

The offer to sell Andrew's notes for a mere $5 was a joke. I don't have the rights to those notes you see...

Anyway, [i][b]Down Under Deals[/i][/b] is a fantastic deal at the regular price and you should track down a set immediately.

Message: Posted by: MagicKim (Jun 6, 2006 09:48PM)
Heh yeah.. I assumed it was too good to be true.. well, I'll try and find some of the material.

As my mother tongue is not English (eventhough I understand every word in a text) I don't get it.. so to speak. I can read a chapter on how to do a sleight, understand every word of it, but then I am totally clueless on how to do the sleight. Really annoying. That's why I'll try to find as much videomaterial as possible to go with it. Do any of you guys happen to know of any good video to assist when learning? (except the one Paul recommended, thank you!) I hope it's a DvD coz I don't have a VCR anymore.. :/

Clock, thank you for the tip, though I don't deal from an erdnase grip I'll consider it. I use, so far, a standard mechanics grip for seconds(push off) and my strike bottoms.


Message: Posted by: Paul H (Jun 8, 2006 01:43PM)
Hi Clock,

The deal taught on the Revelations DVD is the Kennedy Centre Deal. The thing about this deal that puts me off is the odd grip, but I know many excellent card workers here swear by it.


Paul H
Message: Posted by: Tomasio! (Jun 9, 2006 09:40AM)
Dai vernon revelations 11,12 13, 14, 15 if I'm right.
Very good information on false deals, shuffles on those.

Richard Turner's The Cheat is no teaching video, but that doens't matter. Just by watching it you can learn a lot if you want to.

Richard Turner also has 2 new dvd's. One about the bottom deal: Best of Bottoms
And the other dvd is about fans, shuffles and flourishes.
Here Richard explains the moves to you. The dvd starts again with his martial arts and you also get to know him better. About his son, his eye sight, private things etc.

Both dvd's are also nice to watch but I think "The Cheat" is still the best dvd of him.