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Topic: What are the rates for close up in your area?
Message: Posted by: jamesbond (Jul 31, 2006 02:30PM)
Just curious...
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 31, 2006 03:24PM)
Good luck getting an answer to this one.

Rates for what? Restaurant, strolling, coroprate work? NObody wants to give their prices.
Message: Posted by: Michael Messing (Jul 31, 2006 05:54PM)
Well, I'll jump in. In East Tennessee, I get $125 per hour (minimum 2 hours) for strolling or corporate work. Restaurant work, which I don't do regularly anymore, is a lot less because of the long-term commitment.
Message: Posted by: jamesbond (Jul 31, 2006 11:33PM)
Yes I had in mind corporate work...
Message: Posted by: magicofCurtis (Jul 31, 2006 11:40PM)
This is a tricky subject....... In the right market and the right client you can charge any price you desire....
Message: Posted by: Jamie D. Grant (Aug 1, 2006 03:03AM)
This was an idea I had:

[url=http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=168328&forum=5&15]Rates Faq[/url]
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 1, 2006 08:48AM)
Yea read Jamie's link, it is a good guideline. SO many things enter into it.
Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (Aug 1, 2006 09:07AM)
Don't forget [url=http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=157583&forum=44&82]this thread[/url] and [url=http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=75604&forum=5]this one[/url].

Just two of the many out there on this topic.

- Donald
Message: Posted by: JackScratch (Aug 2, 2006 08:30AM)
Yeah, the region, venue, and experience of your work will all effect what you charge, then it will be entirely too little and you will be rediculously undercutting everyone else, who will explain to you, ad nauseum, how you SHOULD be arriving at your price, a formula which will then bring you right back to exactly what you are charging, which will be entirely too little. Bitter? Why would I be bitter?
Message: Posted by: Colin Gilbert (Aug 3, 2006 08:42PM)
See the 'neon' sign at the top of each and every page? 'Magicians helping magicians' Well theres your answer. Youve asked a question and the 'magicians' have helped you. Haven't they?
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 3, 2006 09:39PM)
Well have not really helped out much Collin I am afraid.

BUT there is a good reason for it. There is no real way to help. SO many things come into play with the question you can't really give spacific advice on such a general question.
The link to Jamie's thread is a good starting point though.

Your right, not too much help on a subject like this though.
Message: Posted by: JackScratch (Aug 4, 2006 08:10AM)
[quote]
On 2006-08-03 21:42, Colin Gilbert wrote:
See the 'neon' sign at the top of each and every page? 'Magicians helping magicians' Well theres your answer. Youve asked a question and the 'magicians' have helped you. Haven't they?
[/quote]

Maybe the sign should read "Magicians trying to help magicians, but their egos get in the way from time to time."
Message: Posted by: JackScratch (Aug 4, 2006 08:12AM)
[quote]
On 2006-08-04 09:10, JackScratch wrote:
[quote]
On 2006-08-03 21:42, Colin Gilbert wrote:
See the 'neon' sign at the top of each and every page? 'Magicians helping magicians' Well theres your answer. Youve asked a question and the 'magicians' have helped you. Haven't they?
[/quote]

Maybe the sign should read "Magicians trying to help magicians, but their egos get in the way from time to time."

In the particular thread, to which I refer the interest seemed slightly less in helping anyone, and slightly more in making it sound like everyone charged much bigger fees than everyone else. I cite as evedince that I asked a very very very very simple and clear question and got all manner of replies that were not the answer to that question.
Message: Posted by: benlewis2004 (Apr 3, 2007 03:58PM)
Your looking at around £200 an hour or $400.
Message: Posted by: Bill Nuvo (Apr 3, 2007 04:39PM)
Well recently I found out some interesting rates. I charge $100/hour for strolling. If doing a restaurant on a regular basis $75/hour plus dinner.

Other magicians in my area are doing restaurants for $40/hour.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Apr 3, 2007 05:43PM)
[quote]
On 2007-04-03 16:58, benlewis2004 wrote:
Your looking at around £200 an hour or $400.
[/quote]

How often do you garner this fee just out of curiosity?

Almost NO restaurant in America will pay $400 per hour. I am just curious if you are stating this is what someone SHOULD get, or that guys regularly get.
Message: Posted by: BalukMagic (Apr 3, 2007 08:14PM)
Danny,

I think he is talking about corporate walkaround for events etc as I find that is an easily achievable price for what he'd be saying. (if he's saying what I think he's saying and not what you're saying with what you think he is saying :P)
Message: Posted by: MintonMagic (Apr 3, 2007 11:41PM)
[quote]
Maybe the sign should read "Magicians trying to help magicians, but their egos get in the way from time to time."
[/quote]

Sad but true......
Message: Posted by: JackScratch (Apr 4, 2007 09:01AM)
A side note. A restraunt will pay any fee for a magician. Sky is the limit. All you have to do, is convince them that the additional revenue caused by you performing there will excede the ammount they are paying you, by enough to increase their profits noticeably.

Agreed, acomlishing that gets harder the more you charge, and while the management may be willing to make a leap of faith, the biger the leap, the less faith they are likely to have.

I'm just saying lets not create any false ceilings on this.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Apr 4, 2007 09:50AM)
[quote]
On 2007-04-04 10:01, JackScratch wrote:
A side note. A restraunt will pay any fee for a magician. Sky is the limit. All you have to do, is convince them that the additional revenue caused by you performing there will excede the ammount they are paying you, by enough to increase their profits noticeably.

Agreed, acomlishing that gets harder the more you charge, and while the management may be willing to make a leap of faith, the biger the leap, the less faith they are likely to have.

I'm just saying lets not create any false ceilings on this.
[/quote]

Speakinig as one who OWNED a restaurant, you could not possibly be more wrong Drew.

I know this is the popular line of thinking but lets examine the fallacy.

First off on a spread sheet I would like you to point to the line in which you can show me how YOU as a magician have increased my profits by a penny. Let me help you out here, you can't so don't hurt yourself trying. You are claiming to do things that you have NO TANGIBLE PROOF of being able to do.

Lets pretend for a second that the premise is accepted, that YOU increase profits,(which by the way I don't accept) if you can't prove it, it does you no good.

Now here is the reality of the situation. MOST guys working are working in "family" restaurants. So if you are paid $100 in salary for a night, (which is small but lets keep it that way to help you) that means the restaurant has to sell between $400 and $500 in food JUST TO BE EVEN ON THAT SALARY. Now you are talking a boatload of kiddie meals to cover that nut. Where exactly is my profit? At $10 a meal, 50 people a night have to come in ONLY TO SEE YOU to be EVEN. Not turn your touted "profits".

In a better place where you make more money on the night, well then the stakes go up!

Now how exactly are you going to prove to an owner/manager that YOU have caused a sudden leap in profits? See my guess is you don't do a lot of restaurant work, and certainly have never owned one or managed one. In which case you shouldn't be giving information that is not correct.

You describe a recipe for disaster and I have said this many many times. It is a line magicians tell each other and spout off and have NO IDEA the implications of what they are saying.

So what is the solution? Here it is. FORGET ABOUT RESTAURANT PROFITS. It is not your job. Because as soon as they go down because of "weather, or whatever reason" you will find yourself on the outside looking in.

You are part of the "ambiance". A reason for them to come back. A part of the company that makes the customer experience "unique" and memorable. One they will tell their friends about. One that will keep people talking. None of this has anything to do with profits. Simply keeping customers very happy.

I have written this till my fingers are numb and people just don't get it. When you walk in and make claims you can't back up, you usually get laughed at. SO many guys wonder why they can't land jobs and I really think this is why.

Drew you show a fundimental misunderstanding of how the restaurant "business" works. Also the false ceilings you speak of are actually very very real in the "real world". To ignore them is to ignore facts.
Message: Posted by: Bill Nuvo (Apr 4, 2007 10:11AM)
Thank-you Danny. You have given some real insight. I totally agree that it is not about increasing the restaurant's profit but providing an atmosphere.
Message: Posted by: aussiemagic (Apr 4, 2007 10:30AM)
Correct me if I am wrong but the question is in regards to fees for corporate and not restaurant work. The fees I get for doing strolling at corporate gigs and at restaurants are totally different!

What you can earn I think has a lot to do with the country you live in and where in that country you live.
Message: Posted by: Bill Nuvo (Apr 4, 2007 10:48AM)
Yes it was for corporate work, but still the restaurant offshoot still makes valid points that should not be ignored.

Corporate rates depend sometimes just on you as a performer. Some performers only do high-end corporate work making $10,000 in two days.

The rates also depend on exactly what company is hiring you, their needs (do they need you to entertain at a dinner or a meeting, or at a sales event), the area you live in and more.
Message: Posted by: iwillfoolu (Apr 4, 2007 10:51AM)
I think it's time to put up or ....

I get $200 per hour walk around for corporate work with a two hour minimum. This price is very close to the formula involving cost of an average apartment (2 Hours walk around = Cost of 1 bedroom apt) Although I should admit that I don't do a ton of this type, mostly around Christmas. Perhaps I should market myself better to this niche.

Joe
Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (Apr 4, 2007 11:11AM)
Wow! Someone actually read a thread I linked to. Thanks Joe.

(He is referencing The Top Banana's post on one of those threads.)

- Donald
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Apr 4, 2007 12:46PM)
While yes this was about corporate work, Drew mentioned a common fallacy about restaurants that screamed to be cleared up.

As for the $400 an hour guys, what good does it do to get that fee only once in a while? I don't care what the MOST your fee has been, it only matters what you REGULARLY get. That is where the reality lies.

It seems as if in a scant few months Bens rates have doubled. Keep going you will be up to about a grand an hour by the end of the year.
Message: Posted by: benlewis2004 (Apr 4, 2007 02:35PM)
I don't personally charge £200 an hour, I am talking full time professionals in my area (central London). I personally charge £120 for the first hour an £80 for every hour after that. I perform 3-4 times a month currently at that rate, I am still a student though, studying for my a levels.


Also, yes I was talking corporate/private walkaround, not restaurant. Also, I am talking about rates that these guys get and are booked up on these rates for months in advance all throughout the year.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Apr 4, 2007 03:08PM)
Maybe you should answer for you and not others.
Message: Posted by: robjames (Apr 5, 2007 03:47AM)
[quote]
On 2007-04-04 15:35, benlewis2004 wrote:
I don't personally charge £200 an hour, I am talking full time professionals in my area (central london). I personally charge £120 for the first hour an £80 for every hour after that. I perform 3-4 times a month currently at that rate, I am still a student though, studying for my a levels.
[/quote]

Hi Ben

Here's a more interesting question for you:

Does the fact that you are student give you the right to steal the website from someone who is actually a full time professional magician?

I see you have directly taken my old website http://www.tablemagician.co.uk and copied the design and most of the text from it.

I will give you a call later and we can have a chat about this in detail.

Rob
Message: Posted by: Bill Nuvo (Apr 5, 2007 08:33AM)
I just checked out both websites and found them to be different...can you quote direct examples of the theft?
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Apr 5, 2007 09:11AM)
I'm going to be the first American to give a straight answer here. I have done walk around for free, and I have done walk around for $250 an hour, so tell me what your budget is and, I will give you my best price today (or however you spell that French word).
Al Angello
Message: Posted by: robjames (Apr 5, 2007 09:17AM)
[quote]
On 2007-04-05 09:33, mrbilldentertainer wrote:
I just checked out both websites and found them to be different...can you quote direct examples of the theft?

[/quote]
He has changed it now. But basically it was a direct copy.

He has now decided to take text from David Neubauer instead.
Message: Posted by: Bill Nuvo (Apr 5, 2007 09:18AM)
I'm glad you gave a str!eight answer and not a straight one!
I think the french you are looking for is "Je ne sais quoi"
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Apr 5, 2007 09:29AM)
Mr. Bill
The grammar host never makes a mistake. je ne sais quoi means that special something, What I was trying to avoid spelling was du juor, "of the day, or today" it is plain to see I'm not the international star you are Bill.
Al Angello
Message: Posted by: Bill Nuvo (Apr 5, 2007 09:42AM)
But you are something special Al!

Thanks for responding Rob. I was going to say that maybe I was viewing the wrong site (or you were).
Message: Posted by: JackScratch (Apr 5, 2007 10:04AM)
[quote]
On 2007-04-04 10:50, Dannydoyle wrote:
Speakinig as one who OWNED a restaurant, you could not possibly be more wrong Drew.

[/quote]

Speaking of falacies, ever hear of the falacy of the inadequate sample?

You owning or having owned a restraunt does not prove, show, or express the tendancies of the average restraunt owner in any way shape or form.

Non of that relates to what I was saying, however. I was speaking of the fact that the only ceiling any prace range has is the amount you can talk the purchaser into paying. Any good salesman knows this fact. It was ment to point out that much of what this thread will be directed at is creating a false ceiling. Marketing is so much more complicated than the threads in this forum ever seem to recognise.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Apr 5, 2007 12:00PM)
Again Drew you come up with ridiculus arguements about things you never have done.
See I was part of the Rotory club. HUNDREDS of restaurant owners at the Florida Restaurant owners trade show. ALL of them said the same thing.

As a matter of fact Drew, I went out of my way to talk to them about it. HMMM the number seems to be going up.

Also that is a nice fantasy about whatever you can talk people into is just wrong. IF you talk them into too high a price, you are out on your but.

It is ok theough, I like to see it when you make up ideas about things you have no experience in. That is what the Café' is all about isn't it? Magicians pontificating about what they THINK is the truth?
Message: Posted by: benlewis2004 (Apr 6, 2007 03:10PM)
Rob all was explained, I hope you understand, for anyone that doesn't, don't use the webdesigner from tiger entertainment.
Message: Posted by: benlewis2004 (Apr 6, 2007 03:14PM)
Also rob, if you ont mind explaining, I have for this first time, not used a web designer, due to this problem with him, and have had to do a website for the first time myself. If you ont mind explaining what you mean by I copied someone elses text to put on it, because I didn't think the text was that good, it was just something I thought at the time.

Also, no I would never find it acceptable to steal a website, and I hope you understand what happened in this situation.

Also, when I have explained everything to you rob, and responded promptly when I found out the problem (despite being very busy all day), I don't find it very professional of you to try to embarass me in this way.

Thanks
Ben Lewis
Message: Posted by: benlewis2004 (Apr 6, 2007 03:23PM)
[quote]
On 2007-04-04 16:08, Dannydoyle wrote:
Maybe you should answer for you and not others.
[/quote]

I read the topic entitled "close-up rates in your area", not your own personal rates.
Message: Posted by: benlewis2004 (Apr 7, 2007 06:06AM)
Sorry for the large amount of posts, but if you wanted to know my rates they are here: http://www.ben-lewis.co.uk/prices.html
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Apr 7, 2007 10:46AM)
You already told us your rates. Months ago.

See Ben the problem really comes in when you state things like "you are looking for about $400 an hour". It simply implies that you are getting that.

You do need to try to be more clear on things.

Posted: Apr 7, 2007 11:49am
Al has jumped in with a straight answer, so let me complicate things and give more of a guideline than an answer.

I do not like to say X is the amount to be paid. As Al indicated many things are to be factored in. How far is it from your home? What are the expences getting there, how many times will they book you over the course of the year, will other shows be booked from this gig. Is the gig to make an agent notice me ( not the best reason to ever do anything in my opinion LOL ) and an entire laundry list of other factors.

To stick to a price just to make yourself happy is not too great an idea. Just get a feel for what the client needs, and then fill that need.
Message: Posted by: Hart Keene (Apr 7, 2007 05:37PM)
[quote]
On 2007-04-07 11:46, Dannydoyle wrote:
You already told us your rates. Months ago.

See Ben the problem really comes in when you state things like "you are looking for about $400 an hour". It simply implies that you are getting that.

You do need to try to be more clear on things.
[/quote]

Danny, not to be rude but this is completely different than what you said in another thread. In another thread, you said that you would stick to a rate because "clients do talk to one another". I was the one that was all for giving different rates based upon different factors. Remember?
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Apr 7, 2007 06:14PM)
Actually Hart no it isn't. I am not saying that I "take away value" from what I do.

I am saying that if you have a recurring gig that will land you many many many high priced shows on nights off, then perhaps the idea that you have to have X is a bit short sighted.

You are putting together 2 completly different thoughts and multiple threads.

I said that I charge the same for my show if someone is Microsoft or if they are a small ma and pop company. I STILL SAY THAT and still do that.

BUT if you are talking about a restaurant where you are able to book multiple shows, or if it is across the street or any number of 1000 other factors, then demanding X is not a good idea.

My point in the other thread is not to bang the client based on how much they make. My show has a value that is not relevant to the clients pocketbook. MY show, not anyone elses. I also said that it is not a good idea to "take away" value from what it is you do. I am confused as to how these two completly different statements contradict each other. One speaks of doing private parties and such, and the other a recurring gig weekly.

I hope this helps to get rid of some of your confussion. You are trying to compare apples and oranges. You would NEVER charge the same for restaurant work weekly, that you would for a private gig.

I have said time and again that there are LOTS of factors involved with recurring gigs. I fail to see an inconsistancy.
Message: Posted by: Hart Keene (Apr 7, 2007 06:40PM)
[quote]
On 2007-04-07 11:49, Dannydoyle wrote:
Al has jumped in with a straight answer, so let me complicate things and give more of a guideline than an answer.

I do not like to say X is the amount to be paid. As Al indicated many things are to be factored in. How far is it from your home? What are the expences getting there, how many times will they book you over the course of the year, will other shows be booked from this gig. Is the gig to make an agent notice me ( not the best reason to ever do anything in my opinion LOL ) and an entire laundry list of other factors.

To stick to a price just to make yourself happy is not too great an idea. Just get a feel for what the client needs, and then fill that need.
[/quote]

Oops. sorry Danny, I meant to use this quote!

Posted: Apr 7, 2007 8:42pm
Quote:

On 2007-04-07 19:14, Dannydoyle wrote:
Actually Hart no it isn't. I am not saying that I "take away value" from what I do.

I am saying that if you have a recurring gig that will land you many many many high priced shows on nights off, then perhaps the idea that you have to have X is a bit short sighted.

You are putting together 2 completly different thoughts and multiple threads.

I said that I charge the same for my show if someone is Microsoft or if they are a small ma and pop company. I STILL SAY THAT and still do that.

BUT if you are talking about a restaurant where you are able to book multiple shows, or if it is across the street or any number of 1000 other factors, then demanding X is not a good idea.

My point in the other thread is not to bang the client based on how much they make. My show has a value that is not relevant to the clients pocketbook. MY show, not anyone elses. I also said that it is not a good idea to "take away" value from what it is you do. I am confused as to how these two completly different statements contradict each other. One speaks of doing private parties and such, and the other a recurring gig weekly.

I hope this helps to get rid of some of your confussion. You are trying to compare apples and oranges. You would NEVER charge the same for restaurant work weekly, that you would for a private gig.

I have said time and again that there are LOTS of factors involved with recurring gigs. I fail to see an inconsistancy.

That makes sense Danny. Thank you for the clarification. But was this thread about restaurants or private gigs? I thought we were talking about private gigs..
Message: Posted by: iwillfoolu (Apr 7, 2007 10:25PM)
And none of this has to do with the OP. (what performers actually charge)

If you want to argue over who said what three topics ago, start your own topic.

Answer the question. Tell what you charge (give a range) or what your competition charges, but please stop filling posts with this kind of garbage.

Getting paid = professional (IMO) and professionals shouldn't act like this.

I hope this post gets Sticky Noted and copied to the top of all the forums as it applies to many flame wars. Some people should be booted for the above type of posts, it makes the Café look bad (IMO again)

Joe


Posted: Apr 7, 2007 11:38pm
BTW I already told what I charge and to completely answer the question I have heard other local entertainers charging between $50 and $200 per hour (and getting it).

Joe
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Apr 7, 2007 11:44PM)
Well since the first question wasn't exactly clear, it kind of became a 2 thing thread. IMAGINE THAT ON THE Café'!

Hart was NOT flaming me, he was simply asking for clarification as it seemed as if there was a discrepancy. What is so bad about that? There was no flaming by him and certainly not by me. Seems as if throwing a fit about someone asking for clarification is the closest thing to a flame war that has happened here.

Maybe chilling out and letting others discuss is what is needed, and less policing the thread by those not on staff.

See nobody is arguing. Hart wanted to clarify, so I did. Not garbage really, at least I don't think so. Stop giving orders or get promoted to moderator.

Wow $50 bucks and they get it huh? I stand in awe.
Message: Posted by: iwillfoolu (Apr 8, 2007 02:47PM)
Danny,
Read the thread again.

Joe
Message: Posted by: Flec (Apr 9, 2007 06:37AM)
Why the hell are magicians so secretive about how much they earn???

I get £250 for weddings, for corporate I start at £400 and try and work my way up as much as I can.

Surley the ones amongst us who work more, know that the client will 9 times out of 10 want to book the BEST rather than book the cheapest.
Message: Posted by: JackScratch (Apr 9, 2007 09:20AM)
It's not secretive, exactly. There is an issue that takes place, where someone states their rates, then someone else says "Oh, that's not nearly enough, I charge...", and that's it. The race is on. It's all about who caught the biggest fish. The worst problem I have run into is a complete unwillingness to accept the many many factors that are involved in rates. A perfect example is saying that you charge X per hour for strolling and have someone tell you that you are grossely undercharging because they charge Y for their stage show, and that is more. Then you get in to regional economies which everyone will completely ignore. Then someone will point you to a thread with a great formula for calculating what your rate should be, which when you use it provides the rate you are currently charging, and you have been assured is entirly too low, and you are undercutting everyone else.


THAT is why magicians are so secretive about their rates.
Message: Posted by: Hart Keene (Apr 13, 2007 06:07PM)
[quote]
On 2007-04-07 23:25, iwillfoolu wrote:
And none of this has to do with the OP. (what performers actually charge)

If you want to argue over who said what three topics ago, start your own topic.

Answer the question. Tell what you charge (give a range) or what your competition charges, but please stop filling posts with this kind of garbage.

Getting paid = professional (IMO) and professionals shouldn't act like this.

I hope this post gets Sticky Noted and copied to the top of all the forums as it applies to many flame wars. Some people should be booted for the above type of posts, it makes the Café look bad (IMO again)

Joe


Posted: Apr 7, 2007 11:38pm
BTW I already told what I charge and to completely answer the question I have heard other local entertainers charging between $50 and $200 per hour (and getting it).

Joe
[/quote]

Booted for what posts? Because I wanted to clarify what Danny said?
Message: Posted by: Decomposed (Jul 24, 2008 01:15PM)
Seems I always undercharge and underbid. Especially for strolling. I had my rate at 150 US a hour for too long. I do not mind this rate for the repeat bookers. Some get disgruntled and wonder why strolling is cheaper then a one hour show. OF course you explain to them the way this business works and all then its usually then the price shoppers that take up your precious time.
Message: Posted by: magicofCurtis (Jul 24, 2008 01:47PM)
I think many magicians undercharge.

The guy who won eating the most hot dogs in a national contest gets $15,000 per appearance.

:)

Think about it... :)
Message: Posted by: BIlly James (Jul 26, 2008 08:19AM)
[quote]
On 2007-04-09 07:37, Flec wrote:
Why the hell are magicians so secretive about how much they earn???

I get £250 for weddings, for corporate I start at £400 and try and work my way up as much as I can.

Surley the ones amongst us who work more, know that the client will 9 times out of 10 want to book the BEST rather than book the cheapest.
[/quote]

Well I'm glad THIS post turned up. I was starting to worry about this thread. I'm guessing some of the low-ish prices for corporate walk around must be due to greater competition in the US.

But here in Oz I would hazard a guess that the average is $400 an hour. That's what I charge and most of the guys I know either charge that or more. So taking into account the conversion rate, corporate close up should be MORE than $400 an hour in the states.

This is a really surprising thread. It seems the UK guys are getting good dough though.
Message: Posted by: Decomposed (Jul 27, 2008 07:01AM)
[quote]
On 2008-07-24 14:47, magicofCurtis wrote:
I think many magicians undercharge.

The guy who won eating the most hot dogs in a national contest gets $15,000 per appearance.

:)

Think about it... :)
[/quote]

Yeah I am thinking about it a lot. Tired of underpricing myself. With the feedback I get from clients from 90 percent of my gigs, I usually realize after the show that I charged WAY less then I should have.

Its not the money but the time involved. Especially when a show does not start on schedule, I stay late to give a little extra, get there way ahead of time to ensure proper set up etc etc. Then I look at what I got per hour and wish I had of done strolling instead. Less to carry and set up.

OH well, live and learn. When I do not perform for a while, I feel I get rusty and wanting to be back out there. I have a regular job so it provides me with flexibility.