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Topic: The Cross Cut Force
Message: Posted by: Juble (Aug 3, 2006 04:29PM)
I've seen the cross cut force used to force either the top card of the deck or the bottom card. Do any of you have any preference i.e. do you find it more deceptive to use it to force the top card than say the bottom one?

A friend of mine tried to use it to force the top card but to no avail and his participant brought clearly to his attention that it wasn't the card he cut to. This failure is most likely down to my friends presentation, casualness, time-delay, audience management etc etc, but has anyone found it more useful to force say the bottom card than the top??

Thanks

Justin

PS I know there are some good tips around on using the force, particularly from Michael Skinner...
Message: Posted by: frog52 (Aug 3, 2006 04:51PM)
I would force the bottom card for effects that are quick, and where you show the selection yourself. The anonymity of the card should not be a big deal here.

On the other hand, I would force the top card for effects that are slower, and where the spectator must discover the selection without the possibility of a furtive peek from the magician.
Message: Posted by: Justin Hepton (Aug 3, 2006 05:02PM)
Hi Justin! I know this force is looked down on by many, but I have used it many, many times and whether its the bottom card or the top card, the force is all about audience management and timing, and using the delay for just the right amount of time so that the spectator forgets what part of the deck of was where.

Like most things, its all about getting out there and just performing it, over and over again for as many strangers as you are able to. I am a firm believer in the theory that performing for people you know (ie friends and family) is not a good idea as you can't properly guage their reaction etc, but that's for another thread...!

For the record, I like this force, and its very effective for me, used in the right situation.

Justin (yes, me too!)
Message: Posted by: wsduncan (Aug 3, 2006 05:38PM)
When I used the thing, I would use the bottom card and ask the spectator's to note that I could not see the face of the card "or the back for that matter, in case you think I'd stoop so low as to use marked cards".

It seemed to me that giving them that bit of information to digest would prevent them from thinking TOO much about the selection procedure itself.
Message: Posted by: mrunge (Aug 3, 2006 09:49PM)
I have always used the cross-cut force for the bottom card.

After making the cut, I find that a little time has to go by, with nothing happening other than casual small talk for a second (a quick joke or something) to take the spectators mind off of what is happening. It lowers their guard.

Then when I start back into the effect, they don't seem to notice anything out of the ordinary, and I am usually able to get on with it without any problems.

That seems to work well for me. Mark.
Message: Posted by: PaulGreen (Aug 3, 2006 10:58PM)
I have used the Cross Cut Force to actually force both the "original" top and bottom cards. The key, in my opinion, is to move the both talons as you mark the cut.

After the cards are shuffled, offer the deck for a spectator cut. Once this is done, move the orignal top of the pack to the side and then pick up the original bottom of the pack and place it on top of the first talon. I never cross the packets in a perpendicular fashion. I actually let the cards sort of "splay".

The "time delay" is used here as attention is directed away from the deck. When you return to the deck lift the top talon and point to the card remaining on the talon that is on the table using the top talon. If I was forcing one card, that would be the one.

When forcing two cards, pick up the top talon and turn it over to show the "original" bottom for the first force card. Then use the packet to point to the talon on the table and allow that to be shown as the second force card.

I classify the Cross Cut Force as a non-dynamic (non moving) force. It is good for some, but not all procedures. The more methods you have in your "utility belt", the better. That way, you can pick and choose what is best for the moment.

Enjoy the search,

Paul (The Classic Force is a dynamic force) Green
Message: Posted by: J Hanes (Aug 4, 2006 04:37PM)
Dan Paulus from Salt lake City has a really nice touch on this force which I would love to discuss here but it's propritory. So if you can, see him work or get his video and you'll see the psychology that makes his handleing so fair.
Message: Posted by: Matt Malinas (Aug 4, 2006 06:26PM)
The cross cut force is something that I use almost on a regular basis.
it is one of my favourite forces because if you get the timing and your audience management right it is very deceptive and of course easy.
I tend to force the top card...i guess I just got used to it that way.
another such bold force is the godfather's giggle force. I suggest you PM him about it and he will be glad to send you the handling. I recommend looking into that.
good luck !

-Matt
Message: Posted by: Hideo Kato (Aug 4, 2006 06:37PM)
I never use Cross Cut Force to force one card. I use it to force a portion of cards. So I sometimes force several cards on bottom or several cards on top. Or I use it to force top and bottom card as Green-san mentioned.

I don't think this Force is suitable for revelation purpose.

Hideo Kato
Message: Posted by: evolve629 (Aug 4, 2006 07:01PM)
MAKE SURE that nobody but yourself knows what the bottom card is.
Message: Posted by: Dirko (Aug 4, 2006 09:48PM)
I always use the bottom card and plenty of time misdirection.
Message: Posted by: sgrossberg (Aug 4, 2006 09:57PM)
I agree with Matt; you should check out Vinny Marini's "Giggle Force." It can, with some modified handling, serve as an in-the-hands Cross-Cut Force.

Vinny can be reached at vinsmagic@aol.com. Enjoy. - Scott
Message: Posted by: Alewishus (Aug 4, 2006 11:00PM)
Has anyone heard the rumor of a Darth Palal (sp?) force from elusionist?

Apparently your grandma's kitchen table variation of the cross cut force would now be done below waist level!

Imagine, BELOW THE WAIST!

In fact this force is done on a metal grate or manhole cover, by design! – Can anyone say “street magic”?

It’s apparently being marketed as “The Iron Krozz”.

A.

ps it's angle sensitive.