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Topic: Some Thoughts on Headline Predictions
Message: Posted by: Eric Starkey (Jan 21, 2002 11:57AM)
While headline predictions have been used with quite remarkable success, I am rather leery of them these days. Not because of their methods, but because of the turbulent times in which we are currently living.

The thing that frightens me, is awaking to see a horrific headline that is not suitable for performance. Nothing gets a corporate meeting going like "Bus load of infants die in fiery crash" - And I predicted it!
Ta-da! In a quite likely event, what if the headline has to do with terrorism (you supposedly predicted that it would happen a month in advance) and the question is asked, "If you knew these events were going to happen, why didnít you tell the authorities to try to stop it?" Thatís just an uncomfortable situation that I donít want to put myself, or my audience in.

I realize that this can be covered with vague statements, but;

(1) that takes away from the effect and
(2) itís still just not comfortable.
As you may have guessed, Iím not doing a headline prediction in my shows. Iíd love to here anyone elseís thoughts.


Yours truly,

Eric
Message: Posted by: NickOShea (Jan 21, 2002 12:15PM)
I have very little experience with this sort of thing, so shoot me down if need be. However an easy way around it is sport results or lottery tickets. Although you now have to cover up with why you didn't bet on it!
Message: Posted by: Eric Starkey (Jan 21, 2002 12:23PM)
Nick,

A very good point. Don't worry, no one is going to shoot you. However, I feel that having to fish through the paper to the sports section or searching for the small printed lottery numbers may take away the directness of the effect. Also, it wasn't too long ago that David Copperfield predicted multi-million dollar winning lottery numbers (was it in Germany?), electing not to actually buy a lottery ticket, amid much skepticism. Can we say "too-perfect theory"?
Message: Posted by: NickOShea (Jan 21, 2002 02:56PM)
Thanks for the comments and criticisms Eric.

Working with the sports idea for a moment, a major sporting event can offer good headlines, vague or precise. At the moment tennis would be an idea, I imagine the World Cup this year would offer some good reactions.

Overall, I have to agree with you though. At the moment all of the news seems to be very downbeat and troublesome. As well as terrorism, the recent volcano eruption would be a nightmare to have predicted.

I would be interested in what people with more experience have to say.
Message: Posted by: Scott F. Guinn (Jan 21, 2002 10:59PM)
I prefer, like Shane Causer, (owner of the Visions website) to use tabloid papers like Star, National Enquirer or Weekly World News (my favorite!). Then you get to predict things like: "Shocking proof that George W. Bush is illegitimate son of George Bush and space alien!" or, "Worldís fattest baby eats entire herd of cows in Tunisia!"
Message: Posted by: magiker (Jan 30, 2002 07:03PM)
Most newspapers have more than the main headline on the front page. Why not use one of these instead
Message: Posted by: NickOShea (Jan 31, 2002 12:57PM)
Worst case scenario? Forecast the weather prediction. Two predictions in one,
1 absolutely correct, the other patchy
(with light rain over the midlands).
Message: Posted by: Andy Leviss (Jan 31, 2002 03:32PM)
Check out either Lee Earle's "Money Making Mentalism" audio tapes, or the "A-1 Allstars" video that Lee is on. In both he details his way around disasters and other things that we "should have been able to avoid" in a headline prediction, which is a quite effective method in my opinion.
Message: Posted by: Lee Marelli (Jan 31, 2002 03:55PM)
Hi Eric. You will find throughout mentalism literature, that if you are not comfortable with a concept, such as headline predictions, then do not do it. Why? Because you will be perceived by the audience as being uncomfortable with what you are doing, and they will be uncomfortable along with you. There are many, many strong mentalism routines, do them instead.

A direct answer to your question is one that you do not like, i.e., speak in generalities and choose front page articles that are not disasters. Not everyone "sees" the big story. If there is a huge disaster dominating the front page on the day you are performing, then you have a couple of choices.

First, as previously mentioned in other posts, go to the front of the sports page for your prediction. Second, do not do a headline prediction that day. If you do what Lee Earle suggests, you have not committed to having to do a HP.

Why be vague in your predictions?
Talk with a few psychics or think about the paranormal literature you have read. Supposedly, premonitions tend to come to a person, even a psychic, in a fragmented manner not in a perfect English sentence. Something to think about. Hope this helps.
Message: Posted by: fordkross (Feb 8, 2002 01:34PM)
Headline predictions at one time were the ne plus ultra of the mentalism show. They have diminished in use because of various reasons. Investigative reporter who love to expose fake psychics. Magicians who love to expose fake psychics. And the problem with headlines. Tragedies, if you know the world leader was going to be shot why didn't you tell him. If you knew the winning lottery number , why didn't you play it.
Predictions are still very strong, but predicting other aspects of media, e.g. weather, human interest, Editorials might be a better choice
from
Ford Kross
Message: Posted by: Julien (Feb 8, 2002 03:37PM)
Bruce Bernstein has a nice way around this problem -in Psi Kicks or Perception is everything, don't have them with me here-which allows the prediction to be made several weeks before (i.e. no switch) and circumvent this tragedy issue.
Message: Posted by: Drewmcadam (Feb 8, 2002 04:16PM)
If you can get hold of a friendly editor at the papers - they often know days in advance what the cartoon, and the caption, is going to be! Not only do you get a round of applause, but the audience gets a good laugh, too. Just a thought!
Message: Posted by: DonMarco (Sep 25, 2002 07:19PM)
I'm going to step in here. I'm a young man of only 26 years. I am quite sure that many if not most of the people in this forum have seniority over me. So I have no intention of talking "out of school". However, Mr. Riggs, who lives in my hometown, and Mr. Cassidy, whom I admire very much, have both expressed an interesting view concerning the aforementioned topic. I love a good headline prediction...it can garner yards of free publicity...it can make for a great closing effect...it can do so many things. But Mr. Riggs and Mr. Cassidy have told me in mentalism "less is more" which is hard to swallow at first but...young mentalists especially have a need to predict world disasters or whatever...people are going to know it's a trick, kid!...Try out Cassidy's diary trick...prediction taken care of...newspaper perturbances avoided!...(BTW...I'm planning a headline prediction for a show this weekend...anyone have any info on press releases?)
Message: Posted by: christopher carter (Sep 25, 2002 07:28PM)
[quote]
On 2002-09-25 20:19, DonMarco wrote:
BTW...I'm planning a headline prediction for a show this weekend...anyone have any info on press releases?)
[/quote]

There is a marvelous book entitled, "The Publicity Handbook," that will be able to spell out everything you need for press releases.

--Christopher Carter
Message: Posted by: Samuel Catoe (Sep 26, 2002 01:42AM)
Why not simply predict something like the Dear Abby column or local weddings from a small town paper? You could even predict what the bride wore. :)
Message: Posted by: Andy Leviss (Sep 26, 2002 03:04AM)
I don't think that's the solution, because somebody's (more than one somebody, probably) eventually going to ask, "If you can see that part of the newspaper, why can't you see the big important stories and keep all those bad things from happening?" and you're back to square one.

Maybe you could claim to have a psychic link with Abby, and are reading her mind, and not just foreseeing the paper itself, but otherwise, it's still subject to the same objections.

Same with predicting headlines of tabloids--if you can see those, why can't you see other papers? Maybe you could claim that your powers work like a television or radio that only gets one or two channels in, but I question how that would hold up.

If you must do headlines, I think the solution Earle suggests that I mentioned earlier is the way to go.

-A
Message: Posted by: Priest (Sep 26, 2002 03:33AM)
Ok, so where is a good place to get started, or find more info on "Headline Predictions?"

P.
Message: Posted by: AllThumbs (Sep 26, 2002 06:16AM)
One solution for lottery predictions is to fake a lottery ticket, not too difficult on an inkjet printer. Of course it wouldn't ever be accepted if you tried to claim it (don't, you're likely to be put down for a long time, and don't give it to a spectator!). I did to great effect when I was fortunate to obtain quarter of a roll of genuine blank ticket paper here in the UK from a very accomodating newsagent which made it even more believable.

You can combine it with the "choose the envelope with the money" effect. Have a few envelopes with non-winning tickets and your "Jackpot winning ticket" instead of the money - would be a knockout trick, wish I had thought about that at the time.
Message: Posted by: christopher carter (Sep 26, 2002 09:01AM)
I think a "Hurling the Headlines" approach is likely to garner as much publicity as the old style headline prediction. There's a good Jack Dean manuscript on the topic that Paul Alberstadt is selling.

Ford is right that the standard headline prediction has been exposed heavily. I don't know that that means you can't get away with it, but it is harder now.

--Christopher Carter
Message: Posted by: Darmoe (Sep 26, 2002 09:44AM)
:hrmph: I've posted some "perspective" I guess you could call it, on this issue elsewhere. I have made predictions that dealth with horrific situations. During a Radio interview in Reno, NV. last August I gave a description of what I alluded to as being a "Volcano at least as strong as St. Helen's that would come about within the next 3-4 weeks..."

Now, bear in mind that the Shock Jock DJ (Bob Garrison - The Buzz A.M. Radio) wanted a blood & gore prediction so that's what I gave him (also keep in mind that the public buys tickets to car races, fights, etc. because of our human "need" for blood, gore & violence.) Anywho... my wordage in this verbal prediction met, within 90+% all the details associated with the World Trade Center situation... the collisions took place within the hour, four weeks to the date of said interview.

This kind of PR is a double-edged sword however. There are good as well as bad end results for such a situation. What we need to ask ourselves is "Are we ready to deal with the public's reaction?" Most are not. I just happened to be barraged by clients and friends wanting Readings shortly there after. People kept coming to me and asking me for details... asking if their relatives working at or near the WTC were o.k....

Quite honestly, I was barely ready and highly uncertain as to how to deal with the situation... especially the handful of Readings I did involving individuals who "followed a hunch" and didn't get on certain flights that morning... those who felt they had to get out of NYC the night before (even though they had scheduled meetings in the WTC the next day...)

I know of seasoned pros who, because of similar circumstances, no longer do a Headline routine... others, such as Shane's wonderful ideas in using the Gossip Rags, have simply altered course... which is fine, but (in my opinion) leans closer to working the Bizarre or "Mental Magic" side of things vs. Psychic Entertainment... that's just a personal pet peeve... something I'd normally avoid.

With the plethora of variants available to us however, there is no reason to be overly concerned with said issue. I know of a Christian Magicians that predicted the Sermon Titles and which hymns would be sung... Gamers (RPG) have used the publications within their field like Dungeon... so simply allow your imagination to run a bit. I think that's the rule of thumb in this case... work with material that fits your character and the image you wish to project forward and deliver the kind of end result you want -- Awe, Wonder, and Muse.

Best of luck! :dance:
Message: Posted by: Ted Lesley (Oct 14, 2002 01:37AM)
Hi Mindreaders,
As you possibly know, I am a friend of "headline predictions". The last one I did in Namibia/Africa to promote my show. I "hit" the frontpages of the most prominent newspaper TWICE and got more coverage in the weekend section of the same paper. Such a prediction is nothing for a "newcomer" in mentalism. Only an experienced mentalist can put such a stunt over. I tell you WHY:

The newspapermen and ladies of today are very critical and try to "catch" the performer to "tear him to pieces". They want to show, how clever they are! In the afore mentioned prediction I was on the day, as it was opened surrounded by 40 (!) closely watching intelligent people. If you do the slightest mistake, you can imagine what happens. If you do not have experience, forget it!

That a "catastrophic headline" turns up is very seldom and if it happens, you have to act accordingly.

One time I wrote a prediction which read as follows:

"The headline will describe something, which has with 3 people to do. I see wood and animals nearby the persons!"

The headline on that day was:

"THREE PEOPLE MURDERED IN A FOREST!"

So my prediction was 100 % correct, but I did not have to say a thing about the tragedy!

Read this articles on my website and you find out, that I played the part of a very nervous man before the predictions were opened. Believe it or not, it was all misdirection and acting. This was the "red herring" they should catch and they did. ALL OF THEM! Even my friend and assistant Harry Riegel told me afterwards, that he had completely overlooked the "secret little something", what made this prediction work.

Again: Stay away from headline predictions, if you have no experience!

Any questions? Feel free to ask!

TED LESLEY



:rotf:
Message: Posted by: Thoughtreader (Oct 14, 2002 03:14PM)
[quote]
On 2002-09-26 04:33, Priest wrote:
Ok, so where is a good place to get started, or find more info on "Headline Predictions?"

P.
[/quote]

Priest,
Two of my favorite headline predictions are:
The $1000 headlkine prediction" found in "Can you keep a secret?" and "Banner", both available from AB StageCraft.
PSIncerely Yours,
Paul Alberstat
http://www.stores.ebay.ca/abstagecraft
Message: Posted by: Ted Lesley (Oct 14, 2002 03:40PM)
Hello Friends:
Above, Paul Alberstat mentioned two different
Hedline Prediction Methods. I reccomend them highly. If you want to pull such a stunt off, make yourself familiar with the "$ 1000 headline prediction" and "Banner" and you have the mechanics and the details, which are hard to beat. If you want to order them here is the link:

http://www.stores.ebay.ca/abstagecraft





:bat: :bat: :bat:
Message: Posted by: Thoughtreader (Oct 15, 2002 12:11PM)
Thanks for the kind comments Ted. Much appreiated coming from a master such as yourself.
As always I remain,
PSIncerely Yours,
Paul Alberstat
http://www.stores.ebay.ca/abstagecraft
Message: Posted by: Alan Jackson (Oct 15, 2002 01:52PM)
The Bernstein book mentioned earlier is "Psi-Kicks", page 22, Coded Prediction (it's based on an Al Koran idea).
Message: Posted by: vratkins (Oct 15, 2002 10:23PM)
My choice for the best newspaper prediction is the combination of "Before the Presses Roll" and "Tomorrow's Newspaper" from _Between_two_minds_ by Ned Retledge & J.G. Thompson Jr. (the original, not the new one). The latter item is, IMHO, a terrific approach to the prediction that's big, visiual, and will keep you out of trouble. I think it's similar to the Lee Earle idea Andy alluded to. (Lee's version appeared as "Greeked" in an issue of Syzygy) It really makes the headline prediction so much more believable and mysterious.
As noted elsewhere on this forum, the actual method, "before the presses roll" is only suited to the stage.
The "predicting disaster" problem isn't just theoretical. About 20 years ago a New Orleans mentalist I know made a headline prediction. The night before the show a fully loaded airliner crashed in a suburb of New Orleans, killing everyone on board and many on the ground. It was one of the worst airline distasters in US history. He couldn't get around it; he went ahead with the prediction. Caught flack for not warning people, got national publicity, got on the Dick Clark variety show. Dick decided to make an example of him and forced him to predict the next week's headlines on the air. With no time to prepare, the prediction bombs, mentalist is made a fool on national TV. All this after our mentalist had explained earlier to Mr. Clark that he was just an entertainer, not a psychic!
Regards,
Victor

P.S. Our mentalist recovered nicely; he's a highly successful corporate entertainer and a respected member of the P.E.A.
Message: Posted by: Chad Sanborn (Dec 7, 2007 09:02AM)
Here is what I would do if I was doing a headline predicition and something bad happened. Embrace it!
Why not! Why else would you be predicting that headline? Because it was a traumatic event that you 'sensed'. As to why you didn't warn anyone? Who says I didn't! I would swear I tried to contact the proper authorities and no one would listen. I bet they would even say they have no record of it.
Twist it in your favor. The answer is so simple noone thinks of it.

Chad
Message: Posted by: entity (Dec 7, 2007 09:35AM)
Is using a tragedy to promote yourself as an entertainer a good thing?
- entity
Message: Posted by: ELima (Dec 7, 2007 09:44AM)
Larry Becker in Stunners has a very funny one in "The Howard Hughes Headline Prediction" using a supermarket tabloid. No risky tragedies there I would think.

Endre
Message: Posted by: Mind Guerrilla (Dec 7, 2007 10:57AM)
[quote]
On 2007-12-07 10:02, Chad Sanborn wrote:
Here is what I would do if I was doing a headline predicition and something bad happened. Embrace it!
Why not! Why else would you be predicting that headline? Because it was a traumatic event that you 'sensed'. As to why you didn't warn anyone? Who says I didn't! I would swear I tried to contact the proper authorities and no one would listen. I bet they would even say they have no record of it.
Twist it in your favor. The answer is so simple noone thinks of it.

Chad
[/quote]

I'm not comfortable with this. People will ask, for example, "Did you try to warn relatives of the family whose house burned down and whose babies were killed?" No thanks.
Message: Posted by: Chad Sanborn (Dec 7, 2007 11:53AM)
[quote]
On 2007-12-07 10:35, entity wrote:
Is using a tragedy to promote yourself as an entertainer a good thing?
- entity
[/quote]

You are not using the tragedy, you are using the newspaper. Its the newspaper who is using the tragedy! They could run any story, but they are going to choose the one which sells the most copies! Its just business.

I would also like to add that if you cannot come up with a solution to this dilema that suits you, then maybe you should not do a headline prediction. Do one of the myriad other ideas posted here. Less risk. Just remember, that the more you risk, the more you stand to gain!

Chad
Message: Posted by: entity (Dec 7, 2007 01:48PM)
No, Chad. In your previous post you suggested taking advantage of the event by claiming to have tried to contact the authorities about it. In such a case you are using the tragedy to promote yourself as an entertainer. Is that a good thing?

- entity
Message: Posted by: Terry Holley (Dec 7, 2007 06:06PM)
[quote]
On 2007-12-07 10:02, Chad Sanborn wrote:
Here is what I would do if I was doing a headline predicition and something bad happened. Embrace it!
Why not! Why else would you be predicting that headline? Because it was a traumatic event that you 'sensed'. As to why you didn't warn anyone? Who says I didn't! I would swear I tried to contact the proper authorities and no one would listen. I bet they would even say they have no record of it.
Twist it in your favor. The answer is so simple noone thinks of it.

Chad
[/quote]

I think a good newspaper reporter/"authority" team would end up crucifying you if you claimed that you reported it to the authorities and they wouldn't listen.

I predict that each and every one of your effects would be exposed on the front page within the week!

Terry
Message: Posted by: Chad Sanborn (Dec 8, 2007 12:32PM)
You guys are all getting uptight about this subject! I can sense your uneasiness right now. Just because you don't have the 'stones' to do it, don't get upset with me. This is a business, and like any other business, sometimes decisions are tough. And the right ones may run counterintuitive to what you would normally do.

To approach this from any other angle would be to admit its a trick. But I would never do that. I would not say it was real either. But, I would still say I tried to contact some authorities. I would not reveal to whom I supposedly reported it to. I wouldn't want them to be able to check it out.

I can see Maurice Fogel doing this. Then afterward, he would get in touch with the proper authorities and use this prediction to his advantage! Getting them to use him as a 'consultant' or other such item, that he could then use to publicize himself more! "Homeland Security Psychic Consultant".

that's taking advantage of the situation Entity. Yet Maurice would do it. And did do several things like this in his lifetime. You can't always be afraid to take a chance. A man who stands for nothing, will fall for anything. I think you fit that mold well. Sure you talk a good game on the boards behind a fake name. But it takes real balls to show your true self. Something I don't think you could ever do.

Chad
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Dec 8, 2007 12:40PM)
The headline does not have to be tragedy, but can be a "miracle" type event. Any extraordinary or unexpected event can have the same type of impact.

Chad, the Shiels' effect is wasted on this forum.

Tony
Message: Posted by: Mind Guerrilla (Dec 8, 2007 02:39PM)
[quote]
On 2007-12-08 13:32, Chad Sanborn wrote:
I can sense your uneasiness right now. Just because you don't have the 'stones' to do it, don't get upset with me.
[/quote]

You call it "stones." Others call it "lack of scruples." And no one is getting upset. Try harder next time. :)

[quote]
This is a business, and like any other business, sometimes decisions are tough.
[/quote]

Yes. Very tough. How one must agonize over choosing between being a decent human being and exploiting a tragedy for personal gain. As Ricky Jay said to Scully on his X-FILES epsiode, "Who raised *you*?" :)


[quote]
I would still say I tried to contact some authorities. I would not reveal to whom I supposedly reported it to. I wouldn't want them to be able to check it out.
[/quote]

Well, go right ahead and do that then. We'll see you on 20/20.

[quote]
I can see Maurice Fogel doing this. Then afterward, he would get in touch with the proper authorities and use this prediction to his advantage! Getting them to use him as a 'consultant' or other such item, that he could then use to publicize himself more! "Homeland Security Psychic Consultant".
[/quote]

And in your mind this makes it right?

[quote]You can't always be afraid to take a chance.
[/quote]

No one is being afraid. We're exercising discretion. Your argument is the same type used when one kid is trying to pressure another kid into shoplifting: "What's the matter? Are ya chicken?!" :)

[quote]
But it takes real balls to show your true self.
[/quote]

Methinks thou dost protesticle too much.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Dec 8, 2007 03:05PM)
Chad's not off his rocker here. He's got a good point. Sink or swim... Do it or don't.
Many people DID report that something bad was going to happen on 911 but no one listened. It would be NORMAL for no one to listen!
Al Mann has a take on this on his Cassette interview now available at lybrary.com or somewhere like that. I have the original 2 cassette package. It is still very strong but takes the bite out of the prediction's negative reaction in a logical way. I would do it that way :)
Message: Posted by: Mind Guerrilla (Dec 8, 2007 03:13PM)
[quote]
On 2007-12-08 16:05, Slim King wrote:
Many people DID report that something bad was going to happen on 911 but no one listened. [/quote]

Who? Where? When? Specifics please.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Dec 8, 2007 03:14PM)
OK... But it will cost you :)
Message: Posted by: Mind Guerrilla (Dec 8, 2007 03:18PM)
[quote]
On 2007-12-08 15:39, Mind Guerrilla wrote:
Methinks thou dost protesticle too much.
[/quote]

I think I "Dost"ed when I should have "Doth"ed. My apologies to Shakespeare.
Message: Posted by: Terry Holley (Dec 8, 2007 03:23PM)
[quote]
On 2007-12-08 15:39, Mind Guerrilla wrote:
Methinks thou dost protesticle too much.
[/quote]

:)

Terry
Message: Posted by: darrylasher (Dec 8, 2007 03:39PM)
I am pretty sensitive to being as ethical as possible. As I have said in other comments, I actually stopped doing some effects for friends because they started to believe my powers were real. Having said that...

IF I were to do a headline prediction (which is unlikely) and IF there was a horrendous event, here's some possibilities of what I would do:

1- Make my prediction very vague, even if that means the effect is diminished. For example, if the headline concerned a major earthquake in California, my prediction might involve a "the west coast" and maybe the rictor scale reading as a whole number, or a series of numbers (ie: 7.5 would be 7 or 7, then a 5). That way I could say that I didn't know what the number referred to, but that it would be a big event.

2- As mentioned elsewhere, the prediction could be the headline of another story or a different section. I would just suck it up and say I missed the main headline.

In any case, if it became an issue, I would definitely NOT try to claim supernatural powers. I wouldn't do that anyway, but especially in this case, it's not a time to play semantic games and let people guess whether or not I was genuine.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Dec 8, 2007 03:46PM)
[quote]
On 2007-12-08 16:13, Mind Guerrilla wrote:
[quote]
On 2007-12-08 16:05, Slim King wrote:
Many people DID report that something bad was going to happen on 911 but no one listened. [/quote]

Who? Where? When? Specifics please.
[/quote]

This was discussed quite a bit on the NBC forum... Loribeth has some info.
Hell, even the FBI and CIA sent memo's to the President :)

Here's jut one
http://warning-notice.blogspot.com/2007/10/warning-notice.html
Message: Posted by: Mind Guerrilla (Dec 9, 2007 11:07AM)
[quote]
On 2007-12-08 16:46, Slim King wrote:
This was discussed quite a bit on the NBC forum... Loribeth has some info.
Hell, even the FBI and CIA sent memo's to the President :)

Here's jut one
http://warning-notice.blogspot.com/2007/10/warning-notice.html
[/quote]

When I went to that web site I found a prediction from 1983(!)-Well I guess it's at least a bit more current than Nostradamus- about a plane attacking the Capital building piloted by a man whose name was like "Jerry, Gerard, or Gerlado." Small problem: [i]this prediction did not come true[/i]. No plane was flown into the Capital building even if you do think "Ziad Jarrah" sounds like "Jerry." Why didn't this psychic see the planes that [i]actually hit their targets?[/i] Sorry. No cigar for the vague 18-year-old vision.

Also on this site was a 1986(!) prediction...something about "burning and loud noises, almost like banging. Focus is then averted to Washington, D.C. and the White House. There is a feeling of great sadness within the crowd, while at the same time almost like relief. The sadness has been occasioned because of the death of military personnel who were killed while aborting an air attack directed at Washington." The White House was not attacked on 9/11 and I don't remember any military personnel being killed "while aborting an air attack" on the Pentagon. No cigar here either.

Closer to a cigar would be this same psychic who said, in a vision of New York City, "Site is a massive grey smooth structure. It has a stepped or different level feeling ... Newspaper headlines have something to do with a collapse of a building -- a lot of people hurt or injured. I also sense a feeling of panic, people scrambling and perhaps something to do with an aircraft ... I see the object may cause structural damage as it crashes through the building. All of this takes place sometime in the future." [i]Sometime in the future,[/i] eh? Wow. That's very helpful. I hate those predictions about the [i]past[/i]!

The article fails to go into these psychics' other predictions and what percentage of other vague "hits" they've had as compared to their misses. If all their vague visions take place in the future, with no specific time frame then what practical use are they? I'm sure if we wait another 15 years or so we'll get another aircraft flying into another building somewhere. In fact (going into a trance), I predict it!

I'm a member of a paranormal meetup group here in NYC. I'm their self-appointed resident skeptic. A couple of months ago at a meeting, I brought up 9/11 as evidence of the nonexistence/uselessness of psychic predictions. A couple of members claimed they did have premonitions. One said, "During the weeks before 9/11 the number 11 kept popping up in my life. Whenever I looked at the clock it was, like, always 11 minutes after the hour, etc." Again I ask- what good are any of these vague premonitions if they do [i]absolutely nothing[/i] to avert a tragedy?
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Dec 9, 2007 11:21AM)
I think quite often, what is labelled as psychic - is often what is a hollywood version of what psychic could mean...

like a superhero almost, being able to stop death in its track at all turns, predict lottery numbers all that jazz...

but it could, dependant on how you choose to view things, actually mean that one person is just that bit more in touch with what some would call:
intuition
gut instinct
or, a form of mental awareness

a higher state of mental awareness, could, and I only mean could, be what psychic-ability should mean...

so, though you can't say "mind guerrilla will today buy a new item that's stored in his kitchen..." though that is vague and general, you could look at it as at least slightly specific - as you could do a miilion and one things on each day..

so the wider view its still pretty good that I mentioned:
you buying something
and its in the kitchen

but close up its rubbish cos:
in the hollywood view of things, I should also know you spent a certain amount of money, it was going to be plates, and you'll be storing them in a glass cabinet (bottom left) of your cupboards..

maybe we should entertain the idea that psychic doesn't have to automatically mean "full blown precise mental predictions", but just a higher state of awareness in comparison to most other people...

just my view anyway...

talking of 9/11, on the english version on the underground 7/7, I remember suddenly having the urge the day before, to take that following day off work (i did)when I awoke that morning on someone's couch - and turned on the tv - there was the tube line I used everyday, it went off when I'd be using it, and where I usually sit/stand too...

complete coincidence I know...but maybe we should loosen our views on what psychic means...maybe?
Message: Posted by: Mind Guerrilla (Dec 9, 2007 11:45AM)
[quote]
On 2007-12-09 12:21, abraxus wrote:
maybe we should loosen our views on what psychic means...maybe?
[/quote]

Sure, as long as we can all agree on how useless they are. :)

If vague feelings and coincidences are indistinguishable from so-called psychic phenomena, why choose to use the label "psychic phenomena" as opposed to "vague feelings and/or coincidence"? Seems like a whole lot of wishful thinking to me.

The notion of psychic ability is exciting and romantic but is it real? The notion of Earth being visited regularly by extraterrestrials is likewise exciting and romantic. Like Fox Mulder, "I Want to Believe." Unlike Fox, however, I [i]can't[/i] believe without solid proof. I'd like to believe a bite from a radioactive spider could give me the ability to climb buildings too. But believing in something just because it makes me feel good doesn't cut it for me.

Our reality is full of so many wondrous things, why must we search beyond it? Seems like the ultimate form of greed to me, i.e. "The known universe just isn't enough for me!" :)
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Dec 9, 2007 01:07PM)
Ah..i didn't use the word "psychic phenomena"...

the thing is, not a lot of what we do is ultimately "real" is it...there are exceptions, but in general, we are all performing stuff that is "unobtainable" for most people...we are performers, performing the exceptional...

exciting an romantic - that's exactly how I see it, and I think there's a lot of emotional connectivity/depth to that if used correctly...

it's like some people mistake psychic with mediumship...two massively different things...but some don't see the difference...

as a side note, I'm personally sick of some (and only some) performing using the whole nlp/body language thing nowadays, purely cos they've seen derren use it...i think there's quite a wide variety of explanations available for people to explain their overall geist as it were...

I think to do something outside of the known universe is rather spicy and tantalising...
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Dec 9, 2007 01:16PM)
I won't bore you all with my atom-argument...

just because you cant prove something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist..it just means we don't have the ability to prove that it does yet...

or we're lying..

when there's been tsunami, all the animals dissapeared before it struck, I'd love to know exactly how - some kind of inate sense of "something" bad happening? or do they just have a better way of forecasting the weather and they keep it to themselves?
Message: Posted by: Decomposed (Mar 9, 2009 01:41PM)
I will revist this controversal subject since I am planning to do my first headline prediction. Like already said, I would be vague in the prediction or go to another area of the front page. I mean, the host will have the newspaper with her (or you of course will have a copy just in case).

OT: I am planning a signed sealed prediction. I am planning on doing a SIGNED Headline Prediction tomorrow and have a question.

I have never done one before and am wondering how to present the prediction to the woman to sign. I don't want her to be tempted into opening it is what my dilemma is.

If I tell her its a signed headline prediction, she may get curious and open it before the show on Thurs.

I don't want to tempt her but then again I want her to know what she is doing at the time of the signing. I am using the method presented on Radio Magic.

Any help appreciated.

Candin
Message: Posted by: Jeff Gan (Mar 10, 2009 12:20AM)
I did this a while back.

Use a small locked box (I used a cash box)to keep the envelope in. Then let the lady keep the locked box while you keep the keys. That way, no one has access to the envelope within until the day of the show.
Message: Posted by: Decomposed (Mar 10, 2009 12:39AM)
Thanks Jeff, I have a box with a little lock and heading to meet her tomorrow before Thurs show!