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Topic: Criss Angel's book
Message: Posted by: killermagic80 (Sep 10, 2006 10:03AM)
I have seen this advert on http://www.magicweek.co.uk

Criss angel has made a book, and as said he will explain 40 of the effects performed on the mindfreak series.

I like Criss Angel as a magician and as an artist. It may be an interesting book, but I am disappointed that for one more time his product will be available for the general public. Every curious lay man will buy it just to find out the secrets of his effects.

Unfortunately for us Criss Angel had violated one of the most important rules of magic: NEVER REVEAL A SECRET
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Sep 10, 2006 10:07AM)
He has violated that for quite some time by exposing magic on his show.

He has shown us exactly who he is more importantly. "We already know what he is, we are now negotiating a price".
Message: Posted by: Blindside785 (Sep 10, 2006 09:39PM)
Stuff preformed on mindfreak...That would be cool if that torn and restored signed bill was on there.
Message: Posted by: sickmagic (Sep 10, 2006 11:54PM)
[quote]
On 2006-09-10 11:07, Dannydoyle wrote:
He has violated that for quite some time by exposing magic on his show.

He has shown us exactly who he is more importantly. "We already know what he is, we are now negotiating a price".
[/quote]

So has Mac King, Max Maven, Tom Ogdon, Bill Malone, and the list goes on and on violated that by exposing magic on TV? The tricks shown on these segments are simple tricks you can learn at the library. This has been done for many many years on TV. Nothing new, I think everyone is picking on Criss because he is the most visible at the moment.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Sep 11, 2006 12:02AM)
My mother always said..."If your friends jumped off a bridge would you?"
Just because everyones doing it doesn't mean it's right.
Message: Posted by: frenchmagi (Sep 11, 2006 12:15AM)
I wonder if he'll disclose his use of stooges?
Message: Posted by: sickmagic (Sep 11, 2006 01:14AM)
I am not saying it is right or wrong, I am just pointing out that he is not the only magician in that has shared simple magic tricks on a tv show.
Message: Posted by: killermagic80 (Sep 11, 2006 03:36AM)
The tricks he is sharing are not simple at all. The levitation he sold for the general public, the coin through soda can, the book with 40 effects explained from his series and sold and be available for the general public.....all the above are not simple effects at all. They are PROFFESIONAL effects that again a magician shouldn't reveal the secrets.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Sep 11, 2006 06:55AM)
We all know that sometimes the simplest trick is VERY effective and shouldn't be revealed openly.
1) Criss sells to Magicians (Up to $100 per pop) He makes money $$$$$
2) Criss (And Co-Horts) exposes on TV... He makes money $$$$$
3) Magicians get upset so....Criss sells to General Public..He makes money $$$$

I see a trend here?????
Message: Posted by: killermagic80 (Sep 11, 2006 07:35AM)
Masked Magician exposed magic on TV and made money $$$$$.
Message: Posted by: Magiguy (Sep 11, 2006 08:05AM)
Read carefully. The ad for the book does not actually indicate that he'll teach any of the items from the show. It merely says, "The most provocative mystifier in decades reveals secrets of 40 amazing illusions that fans can master." Sounds like a load of sales hype to me. I was more interested to finally read a synopsis of the upcoming Derren Brown book, listed on the same page at Amazon-UK.
Message: Posted by: killermagic80 (Sep 11, 2006 09:11AM)
Either way is really bad.

Paul Zennon did the same at amazon.uk with his book that many lay men bought. he was explaining metal bending, center tear, out of this world and many other important and valuable effects.

I don't understand why those people don't sell their stuff just through magic shops.

That is the worse thing for the art.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Sep 11, 2006 09:13AM)
People have indeed exposed magic before. People have been in the oldest profession for quite some time.

Does that make a person working for an escort service LESS of a member?

We already know what he is, we are simply negotiating a price.
Message: Posted by: killermagic80 (Sep 11, 2006 09:29AM)
Yes but this is not an excuse.

Is not something right even if people have done it in the past?

We can not calm down and say its okay because some years ago there was a masked magician and other clowns that followed.
Message: Posted by: Dave V (Sep 11, 2006 10:40AM)
Keep it up guys, his publicist is probably loving it.

"Now you can read the book that magicians didn't want you to see! Order today!"
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Sep 11, 2006 10:57AM)
I hope NO Magicians purchase this. Publicity ISN'T always a good thing.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Sep 11, 2006 12:10PM)
Yea Dave your right, the publicity he gets from 12 or 50 posts here on the Café will definitely put him in another tax bracket.

Don't you think he will advertise it that way anyhow? Look how Penn and Teller brag about the "routine that got us thrown out of the Magic Castle".

It is a forum to "discuss" things. Why not let people "discuss"?
Message: Posted by: frenchmagi (Sep 11, 2006 12:39PM)
If you guys think that the general population cares at all about what "secrets" are revealed in the book, you're kidding yourselves. The only people that will buy this are 14 year old boys who think Criss Angel is "really cool" and have some interest in magic.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Sep 11, 2006 01:01PM)
[quote]
On 2006-09-11 13:39, raphlo2 wrote:
If you guys think that the general population cares at all about what "secrets" are revealed in the book, you're kidding yourselves. The only people that will buy this are 14 year old boys who think Criss Angel is "really cool" and have some interest in magic.
[/quote]

Probably not that far from the truth.
Message: Posted by: Dove84 (Sep 11, 2006 02:40PM)
The salt shaker through the table, while a simple enough trick, worked very well for many of us. Same with the shell game. When you stop and think about it some of the very best tricks in magic are very very simple. That's no reason to expose. As already pointed out this is all about money. You buy this book you won't be getting the tricks from mindfreak, most of which can't be done anyway. You'll get a lot of recycled crap.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Sep 11, 2006 03:08PM)
Which brings us to him exposing "other peoples tricks".

Give away Mindfreak tricks. Without the helpers, editors, and such 90% of it is useless info anyhow. But barring that it is appalling.
Message: Posted by: frenchmagi (Sep 11, 2006 03:32PM)
Have any of you been to the bookstore lately? Checked out the magic section? There are a hundred and one books that contain the exact same effects that Criss will probably put in this book.
Message: Posted by: killermagic80 (Sep 11, 2006 05:28PM)
Yes raphlo2 but the only difference is that at the library, will go and get them the one who is really interest and not the one who thinks that Criss angel is cool.

That's the difference.

As you said before: "The only people that will buy this are 14 year old boys who think Criss Angel is "really cool" and have some interest in magic."

And I come back to you with some examples: don't you think that its really bad for magic the fact that David Copperfield is really cool to find out his secrets.

Don't you think that because I find Paul Zennon cool I can find out how "Out of This World" , or "Center Tear" works?

Do you think that because I like Blaine then I can learn how to levitate.


if I really think that Criss Angel is cool and have some interest in magic then I would make anything possible to go by myself to library or magic store and find out more about magic, instead of because I think the guy is cool, I can get his book learn the tricks show the book to my friends, parents, classmates, etc (cause the children that will get it will most of them definitely not respect the secrets).
Message: Posted by: Dave V (Sep 11, 2006 06:14PM)
[quote]
On 2006-09-11 13:10, Dannydoyle wrote:
Yea Dave your right, the publicity he gets from 12 or 50 posts here on the Café will definitely put him in another tax bracket.

Don't you think he will advertise it that way anyhow? Look how Penn and Teller brag about the "routine that got us thrown out of the Magic Castle".

It is a forum to "discuss" things. Why not let people "discuss"?
[/quote]

Don't laugh, it's happened. I've seen one magician who actually brags on his website about being banned from the Magic Café. It doesn't take much. 12-50 posts here won't do much, it's what they decide to do to spin it to their advantage that makes the difference.

Sure, discuss all you like. I haven't heard much discussion though. I have heard a lot of griping and whining by people who are probably kicking themselves that they didn't think of it first.

Personally, I can't wait to read about how he levitated a styrofoam cup by shoving his thumb through it. ;)
Message: Posted by: frenchmagi (Sep 11, 2006 06:47PM)
[quote]
On 2006-09-11 18:28, killermagic80 wrote:
Yes raphlo2 but the only difference is that at the library, will go and get them the one who is really interest and not the one who thinks that Criss angel is cool.

That's the difference.

As you said before: "The only people that will buy this are 14 year old boys who think Criss Angel is "really cool" and have some interest in magic."

And I come back to you with some examples: don't you think that its really bad for magic the fact that David Copperfield is really cool to find out his secrets.

Don't you think that because I find Paul Zennon cool I can find out how "out of this world" , or "center tear" works?

Do you think that because I like Blaine then I can learn how to levitate?


If I really think that Criss Angel is cool and have some interest in magic then I would make anything possible to go by myself to library or magic store and find out more about magic, instead of because I think the guy is cool, I can get his book learn the tricks show the book to my friends, parents, classmates, etc (cause the children that will get it will most of them definitively not respect the secrets).






[/quote]
You know what? If you're good you're good. No matter what. And trust me when I say this, most people don't really give a hoot about "magic secrets". They've got other things to worry about. I think magicians forget to realize that not everyone is as obsessed with this craft as us.
Message: Posted by: Dove84 (Sep 11, 2006 07:05PM)
If I try to do salt shaker through table for someone who saw Criss Angel expose it, it's not really going to matter much if they're "obsessed" with secrets or not. They aren't likely to forget that basic principle.
Message: Posted by: frenchmagi (Sep 11, 2006 07:26PM)
Make your magic less "basic".
Message: Posted by: Seeker (Sep 11, 2006 08:11PM)
OK, I know I will be kicked in the face for this one...but here goes.

I think sometimes, its FINE to let go of a trick and let the audience in. I know the reason I was interested in magic started when I learned an effect. Not only does teaching magic help PROMOTE THE ART, but it also gives you guys and me a challenge to come up with new methods, ideas and amazing effects.

I know I may sound stupid to everyone now. But magic is not just about the secrets. Yes, its a big part of it. But Magic is also about connecting and making the impossible happen. I HAVE taught effects to people, simple effects that make them want to learn more, and they have started into other areas of magic.

Honestly, I think Criss has done something great for our art, as has Blaine and ANY other magician. I am proud to say they are apart of what I do.

-Me
Message: Posted by: Dove84 (Sep 11, 2006 09:38PM)
How do you know my magic is basic? If you've read Steel and Silver you'll know Paul Gertner uses the salt shaker through table. Is his magic basic as well?
Message: Posted by: frenchmagi (Sep 11, 2006 09:43PM)
You're the one that called it a basic principle.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Sep 12, 2006 10:21AM)
Guys are still using things exposed by the "masked magician". People have a short memory.

When they don't use the information, few will remember it.

I guess it is just more shocking to me that he does it. He tries to set himself apart from everyone else. He can't open his mouth without pointing out how different "he" is, and "he" does EXACTLY what others do. Forget the book it will come and go, but why he chooses to sell himself like that, when he should have enough is beyond me.

It is his absolute right to do so and it is great he makes money. It just lumps him in with everyone else.

Kind of like Kathy Griffen and "Life on the D List". She is now what she made fun of for so long. She is losing popularity huge. She became what she made fun of. Criss, is becoming what he claimed he wasn't and when the people who went to him because of what he was find out (Like ralpho2) they get upset.

Let's not attack each others magic or ideas, just put them out there. I am sure your magic isn't "basic" and I don't believe ralpho2 meant to imply it was. I believe he simply meant to grow some is all. Not a big deal.
Message: Posted by: frenchmagi (Sep 12, 2006 11:29AM)
[quote]
On 2006-09-12 11:21, Dannydoyle wrote:
Guys are still using things exposed by the "masked magician". People have a short memory.

When they don't use the information, few will remember it.

I guess it is just more shocking to me that he does it. He tries to set himself apart from everyone else. He can't open his mouth without pointing out how different "he" is, and "he" does EXACTLY what others do. Forget the book it will come and go, but why he chooses to sell himself like that, when he should have enough is beyond me.

It is his absolute right to do so and it is great he makes money. It just lumps him in with everyone else.

Kind of like Kathy Griffen and "Life on the D List". She is now what she made fun of for so long. She is losing popularity huge. She became what she made fun of. Criss, is becoming what he claimed he wasn't and when the people who went to him because of what he was find out (Like ralpho2) they get upset.

Let's not attack each others magic or ideas, just put them out there. I am sure your magic isn't "basic" and I don't believe ralpho2 meant to imply it was. I believe he simply meant to grow some is all. Not a big deal.
[/quote]
Couldn't have said better myself. But you're never gonna let me off the hook for at one time defending that Jersey boy are you Doyle?
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Sep 12, 2006 11:49AM)
I am sorry it was not a shot at you. Really. I was illustrating a point.

I will never mention it again.
Message: Posted by: frenchmagi (Sep 12, 2006 11:50AM)
I know. I was only kidding.
Message: Posted by: Dove84 (Sep 13, 2006 12:56AM)
I agree that people do have short memories about the secrets that are exposed. It just irks me that Criss does it in such an arbitrary way. I can't see any reason for the exposure on his shows other than trying to fill a few minutes.

As for his book, what can you do? The real problem as I see it is that people interested in learning magic aren't going to be the ones buying it. Rather it'll be people interested in Criss Angel.

As to the whole basic thing, why get hung up on semantics? I didn't take any offense, just wanted some clarification. Peace.
Message: Posted by: killermagic80 (Sep 13, 2006 06:21AM)
Then he should have published a book of his life. of his biography, his teen years, some pictures etc.

I agree that they will get it people that are interested in Criss Angel.

like David Beckam's book. he could have done the same for his fans, not to expose secrets
Message: Posted by: Michael Littlejohn (Sep 19, 2006 07:19PM)
Hey guys, let me say at the beginning I am opposed to ANY "blatant" exposure. I believe Frank Garcia made a few spins in his grave when JT exposed the three shell game on Mindfreak. My question is, "Is it ethical to expose or not?

What is most amazing to me when reading various comments and replies in this forum concerning exposure, is the number of well posted magicians who defend this practice and continue to expose methods of the art, themselves. I can remember when even the smallest of secrets were treated with respect and you would never be invited on the "inside" by real "workers" once you betrayed that trust.

What would be the reaction any major television or cable network having an "insider" appear on radio and television segments nationwide, expose the weekly episode endings and season finale of a muti-million dollar production such as 24 for example, one week before the premier air date?? Would they even make it on the air? Would people such as this be considered as great promoters of their product or company?

Look at what happened in the recent Coca Cola/PepsiCo situation when an employee of Coke tried to sell certain formulas to Pepsi. This was a complete backfire for the employee, whether they were disgruntled or just greedy!!

Not every effect that most magicians perform can have an expose`/double kicker ending to cancel out the method such as the "silk to egg".

Many have said in this forum that the secret isn't what it is all about. It is the presentation, the style, and talent of the presenter. While I do agree that all of these qualities are needed; they are needed to help hide the METHOD. Otherwise we as magicians and mentalists would be nothing more than storytellers and Mimes (referring to silent magic acts).

Unfortunately, exposure will continue, but my respect for those who insist on "giving it away for free" will not.

mgl
Message: Posted by: frenchmagi (Sep 19, 2006 09:00PM)
I've been thinking about this a lot lately, and realized something while I was watching a magician perform a classic sponge ball routine the other day. Even though I knew the routine, and in the back of my mind knew the ins and outs of the effect, I was still completely fooled by the effect. Why? Because he was good. If we'd focus less on exposure and focused more on practice and perfecting our method, we'd accomplish more. Because even if we know what is going on before our eyes, most methods in magic are strong enough to still fool us if perfected.
Message: Posted by: Dave V (Sep 19, 2006 09:30PM)
:applause: I think he's got it! Now, if we can get all the other magicians here to think that way, and work on their presentation and not obsess over the fear of exposure...
Message: Posted by: frenchmagi (Sep 19, 2006 10:19PM)
Your sarcasm is in full effect. But so is your idiocy. You must be one of those magicians that I talk of. The ones that don't have the skills to pay the bills. Sorry my friend. I really do hope things go better for you . . .
Message: Posted by: Dave V (Sep 19, 2006 10:21PM)
I certainly hope you're not referring to me. I'm in complete agreement with your last post.
Message: Posted by: frenchmagi (Sep 19, 2006 10:42PM)
My Sincerest apologies VanVankranden. I did think your last post was directed at me . Happy to hear that we're in unison.
Message: Posted by: Dave V (Sep 20, 2006 01:21AM)
Apology accepted. Although I feel exposure is generally bad, the part I especially dislike are the ones you speak of who have "no skills to pay the bills" and typically don't even realize they're that bad.

Magic conventions are great examples of both types. The unskilled ones hopefully learn about their weaknesses (but seldom do) while at the same time the skilled ones constantly fool other magicians time and time again, in spite of the fact the audience knows how the tricks are done.

Gazzo covers this in his lectures about when spectators "call him out" he simply brushes it off with "Yeah, yeah, I've heard them all, fake thumbs, hidden pockets, whatever...just shut up...) Of course his delivery is uniquely his and I'd never get away with it, but it works for him. He generally acknowledges their explanations and simply brushes them off and continues with his show. The same applies when he deliberately "exposes" an extra ball during his famous Cups and Balls routine. He makes some smart*** comment, does yet another fake transfer and he's right back in position to go once again.

Exposure doesn't have to hurt you if you handle it properly. When Criss Angel's show exposed the Shell Game, some of the best shell workers in the world said it didn't bother them one bit. A "Mark" with limited knowledge of how the game works might think he has an advantage, but a good worker will prove they can be taken down even harder.

It's a mark of a true professional to not let this "exposure" talk get the better of them and just get on with what they do best... entertaining their audiences.

I just read tonight that Criss' book has two parts. The bio section was written for him, and the magic section was written by a very well respected magic writer and publisher. I doubt anything that's in this book will harm our profession in any way, and might actually help recruit some "new blood."
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Sep 20, 2006 08:27AM)
I don't see how the "shell game" exposure hurt anyone.

As I said the cigarette companies did it in the 30s. HOUDIDI exposed mediums as a hobby. He was the most famous man on the planet. Still around and he isn't.
The fake preachers, televangelists, faith healers, all exposed, none seem hurt by it.

Let's take the "shell game" as an example as it seems to draw the most fire. First off even if your looking MOST workers can't be caught short of grabbing the hand. The "mark" feels educated, and any worker will tell you THIS is where the money is.

Perhaps it is the half hearted magicians, the guys on the other side of ralpho's example who are mad. Not wanting to put in enough work to be good enough to fool, though the method is known.

Like I said it is the fact that he falls into line with those he tries so hard to separate himself from.

I still think we are just negotiating a price, and that makes it repulsive.
Message: Posted by: killermagic80 (Sep 20, 2006 04:53PM)
You guys all are great!

So from tomorrow I will go out and expose my invisible deck, sponge balls, some nice colour changes, invisible loops, ambitious card, and many other strong effects.

What's the problem. it doesn't hurt anybody as you say.

I don't understand you at all, and I am really disappointed by the above posts.

A magician NEVER reveals his secrets. we do not negotiate ANYTHING, and we do not expose ANYTHING.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Sep 20, 2006 05:00PM)
So where do you work and for how long? You claim the title magician, so how long have you made your living at magic?
Message: Posted by: killermagic80 (Sep 20, 2006 05:07PM)
Dannydoyle that doesn't have to do with how long you have to be in magic or where you perform.

Whether you are 1 month in magic or 40 years, you should not expose any secrets.

Whether you are a non famous local magician or David Copperfield, you should not expose any secrets.


(by the way because you asked me, I am 26 years old and I am into magic since 9)
Message: Posted by: SeaDawg (Sep 20, 2006 05:15PM)
Magic is very much in the eye of the beholder...
Whether it is a simple sponge ball vanish or an elaborate handling of a complex routine, if the audience is amazed... then the "Magic" happened.

I truly believe that the sense of wonder and awe in magic should be treated with respect. Just because we know how it is done doesn't mean we should every take the liberty and ruin it for someone by exposing the "secrets".

If we focus on spreading the sense of wonder and amazement and spent less time trying to reinforce our own egos at the expense of others, we as a profession would be much farther ahead. I have adopted the tact, then when approached with the "Criss Angel or David Blaine does so and so..." I say "Yes, and this is what I do... Since there are ten thousand plus magic tricks." And then I perform...It works for me...
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Sep 20, 2006 05:28PM)
When we whine that secrets are exposed then we tell people we are nothing but our secrets. We should be more than that.

You have been in magic since 9. Great how many paid shows? Not many because you duck the question so don't bother to answer.

See guys working know what a short memory the public has, and that we are more than just the sum of our tricks.
Message: Posted by: killermagic80 (Sep 20, 2006 05:43PM)
Dannydoyle don't get angry!

I have performed 679 paid shows. 57 of them were special occasions!

what are you talking about!

I will answer you. I used to tour the Greek islands performing magic 6 days a week. one week on stage and the next week close-up.

I was also performing magic on TV in Cyprus on a weekly basis.

I performed for many occasions, and big outdoor events.


If you want to tell me that people have short memory, this I know it very well.
BUT that's not an excuse to expose the secrets
Message: Posted by: Dave V (Sep 20, 2006 05:49PM)
[quote]
On 2006-09-20 17:54, killermagic80 wrote:
You guys are all great!

so from tomorrow I will go out and expose my invisible deck, sponge balls, some nice colour changes, invisible loops, ambitious card, and many other strong effects.

[/quote]

That's not exactly what I said, or meant. *I'm* not going to expose what *I* do, but on the other hand, I'm not that concerned about what *others* do. There are so many ways to entertain that even if they did know *a* secret, they can never be sure I'm using that *same* secret or something else, and once they realize that the secrets don't matter, they can still be entertained.

I didn't say exposure doesn't hurt [i]anybody[/i], I said I'm not going to allow someone else's exposure to hurt *me*.
Message: Posted by: killermagic80 (Sep 20, 2006 05:56PM)
Of course that's right and I totally agree.

Of course we will not allow someone else's exposure to hurt us.

But we just cant calm down saying exposure will continue.

By not allowing someone else's exposure to hurt us is defence.


We have to attack back and be against exposure too.
Message: Posted by: Dave V (Sep 20, 2006 06:15PM)
Let's draw a comparison to a quote I once read:

"The opposite of Love is not Hate. The opposite of Love is Indifference."

See where I'm coming from? The more we yell and fuss, and stamp our feet, the more they know they're onto something and they continue to do it.

This is one time where "Ignore it, and it'll go away" actually can work. Once they see that we're not affected by what they say, they'll move on and take their games elsewhere. Pro Wrestling perhaps.
Message: Posted by: killermagic80 (Sep 20, 2006 06:20PM)
Maybe you are right.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Sep 21, 2006 05:12PM)
I can't ignore this exposure (Johnny Thompson). It has cost me REAL MONEY. Maybe just a couple of grand per year....but it adds up! Danny...How much did you lose by the exposure of the Three Shell Game? If your answer is NOTHING, then you have NO ROOM TO TALK. This exposure HAS affected working entertainers. I'm one of them. When Johnny Thompson comes to Daytona, he'd better be looking over his shoulder! :)
Johnny is supposed to attend the Daytona Magic Convention. I performed there last year, but I'll steer clear this time! MAYBE????
Message: Posted by: killermagic80 (Sep 22, 2006 01:04PM)
(sorry guys. where I live we don't watch the mindfreak shows. I have seen the season one series from the 2 DVDs. I didn't know that Johnny Thompson exposed the three shell game).

And just something to add on Slim King's comment: is not only the money you lose from that exposure, but also the time and effort magicians has put in order to perfect this wonderful routine.
Message: Posted by: Dave V (Sep 22, 2006 02:41PM)
This is not to say what Slim does is wrong, I've never seen him so I can't know that, but I do know there are some wonderful handlings out there that even if they do know that the pea doesn't stay in the shell it started from, there's [i]no way[/i] to tell where it goes. The operator can relocate the pea at will to any shell he desires and the hand movements are identical. In fact, in some presentations you actually tell them the pea doesn't stay under the shell it starts from, and you demonstrate (not to the extent that JT did, but they get the idea) and they still can't follow your moves.

If you haven't seen it already, you MUST get the School for Scoundrels DVD on the Shell Game. Whit's moves and improvements just blow away anything magicians *think* they know about about handling the shells.

So Slim, I'm sorry you're losing money at the game, but you might be able to regain some of your losses with Whit's improvements. Are you playing this as a magic trick? (busted, exposed, time to move on) Or as a real game, or pseudo-con game? This is the only way I'd consider using it, and the possibilities I mentioned make it a routine where you simply can't lose.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Sep 22, 2006 11:43PM)
I perform for Conventions...Follow the Pea...no betting, just lots of fun for the conventioneers and myself. I also do a poetic version of the Ultimate Three Card Monte....Is that to be exposed next?
You must convince the booking agent to book the Three Shell Game. They know of the exposure. They'll just book something else....no skin off of their nose. They still make their commission. :)
Message: Posted by: Dave V (Sep 23, 2006 01:07PM)
Okay, so it's more the booking agents than the spectators... I know you can entertain the socks of the spectators whether they know how it's done or not. Convincing the agents to give you the chance? I hadn't considered that part of it.
Message: Posted by: Beth (Sep 23, 2006 07:40PM)
[quote]
On 2006-09-20 19:15, Dave VanVranken wrote:
Let's draw a comparison to a quote I once read:

"The opposite of Love is not Hate. The opposite of Love is Indifference."

See where I'm coming from? The more we yell and fuss, and stamp our feet, the more they know they're onto something and they continue to do it.

This is one time where "Ignore it, and it'll go away" actually can work. Once they see that we're not affected by what they say, they'll move on and take their games elsewhere. Pro Wrestling perhaps.
[/quote]

"The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference. The opposite of art is not ugliness, it's indifference. The opposite of faith is not heresy, it's indifference. And the opposite of life is not death, it's indifference. "
Elie Wiesel

With all due respect Mr. Vanvranken to use Elie Wiesel's quote seems an odd choice to me to promote ignoring exposure. I understand your sentiment that ignoring something will discourage it from flourishing, but that quote, taken from Elie Weisel's speech called "The Perils of Indifference" doesn't in my opinion in any way promote that ignoring wrongs will make them go away. Just the opposite in fact.

What Elie Wiesel was saying with that quote was that to ignore a travesty...(he was speaking of an even greater transgression the Holocaust of course)... is wrong. To ignore a transgression simply makes the one looking the other way as guilty as the perpretrator.

I think if we love magic we do not look the other way or ignore exposure. Which is what Elie Wiesel's quote was promoting. If you have love for something you never ignore the wrong being done to it.
Peace Beth
Message: Posted by: Dave V (Sep 24, 2006 02:06AM)
Thanks Beth for completing the quote. I never heard the original, only the part I mentioned. Looking back, now that I've heard the entire quote and the thoughts behind it, I suppose I could have something better to make my point.

Posted: Sep 24, 2006 2:13pm
How's this? "I've heard you can fight fire with fire, but last time I did that I nearly burned the house down. Next time I'll try water."

So, if complaining as loud as the exposers doesn't seem to be working, I'm suggesting silence. Don't let it get to us. When they figure out it's no fun anymore they'll go on to pick on someone else.
Message: Posted by: Beth (Sep 24, 2006 01:35PM)
[quote]
On 2006-09-24 14:13, Dave VanVranken wrote:
How's this? "I've heard you can fight fire with fire, but last time I did that I nearly burned the house down. Next time I'll try water."

So, if complaining as loud as the exposers doesn't seem to be working, I'm suggesting silence. Don't let it get to us. When they figure out it's no fun anymore they'll go on to pick on someone else.
[/quote]
LOL much better Dave. Hey if they pick on you just let me know. I'll beat'em up for you. GRRRRRRRR :jump:
Message: Posted by: Dave V (Sep 24, 2006 03:51PM)
"Your big brother huh? I got something better. I got Beth!"
Message: Posted by: killermagic80 (Sep 24, 2006 05:27PM)
How about the book?

anybody bought it and has a review on it?
Message: Posted by: Guardian452 (Sep 24, 2006 06:17PM)
Its not out yet
Message: Posted by: killermagic80 (Sep 24, 2006 06:21PM)
When it will be available?
Message: Posted by: Dave V (Sep 24, 2006 06:37PM)
It's available on pre-order [url=http://www.amazon.com/gp/aws/cart/add.html?SubscriptionId=D68HUNXKLHS4J&AssociateTag=wwwgeniimagaz-20&ASIN.1=0061137618&Quantity.1=1&adid=07F76Y3F3XK77EYMAB68&linkCode=as1&OfferListingId.1=NfMLOMexkSiteX3Y6pmOzHxvuZM7e%252FWJKP0DVZCJPiFSlasnWyGzZdzPKo32q2g4rCRngDGaUCc%253D&submit.add.x=27&submit.add.y=14]here[/url]
Message: Posted by: DAMDAM (Sep 25, 2006 04:24PM)
I just pre-order my copy today, I want to read what mr angel has to say... I think it will be fun.... :o)....
Message: Posted by: killermagic80 (Sep 28, 2006 10:03AM)
yes, tell us what you think about it!
Message: Posted by: Traveler (Jan 8, 2007 04:50PM)
Now... is the book out yet ?
Message: Posted by: Bendy (Jan 8, 2007 11:40PM)
The current scheduled release date for the book is May 1, 2007.
Message: Posted by: fabian (Jan 14, 2007 11:31PM)
While yes, many people have seen the episodes of Mindfreak where things are exposed, the real truth is that most people have not. The show is not a network TV blockbuster where everyone has to see each episode. Yes, there are a lot of viewers, but you are acting like the tricks were exposed on the biggest tv shows ever. The amount of people who saw the exposure is small, especially in the grand spectrum of people out there.
Message: Posted by: killermagic80 (Jan 15, 2007 03:21AM)
Still, he shouldnt expose anything.