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Topic: Fingerprint replication ?
Message: Posted by: Xargos (Sep 18, 2006 02:16AM)
Ok so we all know about regular locks using KEYS ! But what if you had to open a fingerprint lock ?

Replicating the fingerprint using latex or some kind of gel would be easy, the hardest part would be to take an impression of the person's fingerprint without him noticing (I guess the fingerprint could even be scanned)

Anyone done this yet ?
Message: Posted by: Wolflock (Sep 18, 2006 02:19AM)
Not Yet. But if you can get their imprint from a glass. You should be able to paint a light layer of resin or latex and actually get the print right. Never tried it, All theory. Any other views. This is quite a nice thought Xargo's. I would like to hear the views on this one.

Message: Posted by: Xargos (Sep 18, 2006 02:24AM)

Seems like you can just photocopy the fingerprint !
I'm testing things TODAY, I am getting a fingerprint scanner.
I should find this powder used by the police to find fingerprints on crime scene.

1-Clean the scanner
2-ask the victim to open the lock to prove it's really working
3-Remove the copy with the police method thing
4-use the impression on the scanner

I'll tell you all if it works :)
Message: Posted by: Wolflock (Sep 18, 2006 02:45AM)
Thanks Xargo's Would be great to find out if this works. Are you going to use a Scanner connected to a Point of Sale system so as to first scan in the person's fingerprint so that ONLY they can open it? How will you make their fingerprint the only one to open the lock?

Message: Posted by: Xargos (Sep 18, 2006 02:52AM)
Yep before -1 of course I have to "register" their fingerprint in the computer.
Message: Posted by: Wolflock (Sep 18, 2006 03:17AM)
Nice. Tell me how it turns out.

Message: Posted by: Xargos (Sep 20, 2006 03:34AM)
I ordered the finger scanner and already tried a few methods of replication using latex...
Message: Posted by: jeremysweiss (Sep 21, 2006 11:04AM)
For those interested in James Bond stunts:

the best method of lifting a fingerprint from an object is to place the object in a glass container (with a top), such as an aquarium. In the aquarium you take a lightbult (attached to a current--so it turns on) and on the lightbulb place a thimble full of superglue. The cyanoacrylate will heat up, vaporize and cling to the fingerprint. The fingerprint will be a very hard reverse image. One could then make a latex or silly putty cast (correct image now).

Methods of fingerprint duplication aren't that reliable (or reliable enough that I would stake my life on it). Niether are those types of locks.

So, in my opinion, the best was to bypass a fingerprint lock is to rig the lock to begin with. This requires some electrical know how.
Message: Posted by: 1064857 (Sep 21, 2006 01:00PM)
Try youtube - there is a video on there on cracking a fingerprint recognition scanner. And they did it. Three different ways! Best one was the photocopy thumb print moistioned. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhllPkr4kIg
Message: Posted by: Mick Hanzlik (Sep 21, 2006 01:54PM)
That was so cool!!! I'm a Master Locksmith, and over here in the UK these locks are just making an appearance. I'll have to let the distributors see that video footage, and send them back to the drawing board!
Message: Posted by: KingStardog (Sep 21, 2006 02:32PM)
Well in theory it works ok, but I can tell you this from someone that programs these sorts of devices and other types of biometrics.

1.Only a poor designer would allow the units as a single layer of security. Period. End of story. Generaly we don't see a biometric device in an military/industrial setting until the 3rd or fourth layer of security and sometimes even later depending on funding.

It comes down to this: if the printreader is permanently installed, other layers of security will land you in the pokey before you get close to a reader. If its a portable type of unit, laptop, or padlock its like the hanky in a suit pocket, its window dressing.
Message: Posted by: Wolflock (Sep 22, 2006 03:08AM)
Great info guys. Thank you. Anyone got any info when it comes to the access cards and buttons? I would like to know if there is any way around that too.

Message: Posted by: jeremysweiss (Sep 24, 2006 12:03PM)
I don't patrtonize this seller, but I do know if them and they may have the info you are looking for, Wolflock:

Message: Posted by: Joe Marotta (Sep 24, 2006 12:23PM)
Great topic. Now in a performance setting, how many hours would people wait while we lift a finger print, make a working copy, and defeat the lock?

Still, it's always fun to try to counter the cunning creations crafted to keep us contained. Wow, try saying that 3 times, fast!

Message: Posted by: KingStardog (Sep 24, 2006 05:34PM)
On 2006-09-22 04:08, Wolflock wrote:
Great info guys. Thank you. Anyone got any info when it comes to the access cards and buttons? I would like to know if there is any way around that too.

Well lets see, this is what I do in the real world, advanced security systems of all types,mostly diagnostics repairs and trouble shooting, as well as upgrades etc,so I can tell you this much about card systems. It will cost you about 10K for training to be able to do much of anything, and that won't be much. with about 35K in training expense you will have some skills but not on many different types of systems and its doubtful those will be the ones you are interested in. First off they will not enrole you in classes unless you are an equipment dealer or blowing some whale sized dough every year on your own systems. Secondly it is a common practice for the books to be one or two versions outdated, and you are told verbally to make the changes in class to the books so they will work. Not one company I know of except honeywell and cardkey use a current book in their classes for this very reason. When you leave with your edited books, they seldom leave your sight. They are the entire value of the courses. The types of books you get from Palladin and such places are often a decade or more outdated and certainly won't cover current tech.

Currently in the more advanced installations, they use a card that has an RF chip and antenna, an embedded contact chip with db, and a high density magnetic stripe or weigand wire filliments all on the same card. The RF chip being a Fortune 1000 format with a seldom used number of bits, is only decoable with a live installation admin rights and a very special procedure known only to a very few people on the planet.

So in addition to the cost of training, you will need three different scanners, the ability to manipulate(hack) those, and a live system which is serial numbered and works most oftem with a serial numberd dongle that matches that system to the tune of 10K and upward to 500K. folks don't let you play on these very often.

The first thing you would need to do though is apprentice as an installer for a few years before anyone will trust you to even get started.

To answer the question: "I would like to know if there is any way around that too."
for regular folks, no unless they have a ton of dough to throw away learning. Anyone that says you can learn on the cheap has no clue what they are talking about.
Message: Posted by: Wolflock (Sep 26, 2006 03:00AM)
WOW! Thanks Kingdogstar. I did not know it was that involved. Very interesting. (Looks like I wont be using anything like that in my shows for quite a while. :o))

Thank you very much for the info.